Short Hitting Video

[Ballinbob]

Thank you. I used to have a 1hbh where I would kick my back leg up as well. Good observation though, nobody else has caught that. Hopefully that will help me recover a little quicker.

As for the forehand... It kind of hurts to fully stretch my arm all the way and to touch my chin to my shoulder. I don't know if it's just me not being flexible or maybe I'm not used to it,but I agree with you that it's important. That's something I'll keep an eye on in future videos.

 

[Topspin Shot]

Hey Bob, much better on the crosscourt forehands. And you're lucky getting to play outdoors all winter. I haven't played outside since December.

 

[snvplayer]

Thank you. I used to have a 1hbh where I would kick my back leg up as well. Good observation though, nobody else has caught that. Hopefully that will help me recover a little quicker.

As for the forehand... It kind of hurts to fully stretch my arm all the way and to touch my chin to my shoulder. I don't know if it's just me not being flexible or maybe I'm not used to it,but I agree with you that it's important. That's something I'll keep an eye on in future videos.

Just curious - where does it hurt? You don't really need to fully stretch your arm to touch the shoulders..When you take the unit turn, the chin touches the left shoulder, when you finish follow through, your chin touches the right shoulder.

 

[Ballinbob]

Hey Bob, much better on the crosscourt forehands. And you're lucky getting to play outdoors all winter. I haven't played outside since December.

Thank you, hope you've been well. I heard you guys are getting hit with some big time snow haha, that sucks. It'll snow here but it'll be 70 degrees two days later.

Just curious - where does it hurt? You don't really need to fully stretch your arm to touch the shoulders..When you take the unit turn, the chin touches the left shoulder, when you finish follow through, your chin touches the right shoulder.

It's more of a tightness in my upper arm, so maybe not pain... Either way it's uncomfortable, but I think it's because I try and overdo the stretching of the left arm. I'm playing Saturday so I'll make a point to have my chin touch my left shoulder and report back.

By the way, the whole point of doing this is to get more coil on the forehand, right? It should help to get easier power?

 

[5263]

Good observation though, nobody else has caught that.

Oh yes, some of us noticed it, but I know I'm not about to mess with your best and strongest shot as you work on other areas that could lift you to the next level.

Remember, In a very real way, we are still working on recognizing and managing your contact point....the first thing I mentioned on the first vid of yours I saw.

 

[Ballinbob]

I'm totally with you about the contact point. I've seen two coaches about my forehand and both have said my contact point needs work. Both said I was contacting the ball too late (which is true). We worked on some bounce-hit drills to get the feeling of hitting out in front.

Both of them said that fixing the contact point will greatly improve the consistency on my forehand, which is what I need to compete at higher levels. I'm not going to jump and try and fix the leg thing with my backhand right away or anything, but it's good to know that's all. I write all this stuff down so I don't forget. Like I said, based on the 1on1 coaching I've gotten, it's pretty clear that the contact point on my FH needs the most attention

PS. I find it funny how many threads there on exactly where you should contact the ball when you serve and how much kinetic energy goes into a serve but I never see threads about where you should make contact with a basic forehand or backhand....

 

[mightyrick]

I'm totally with you about the contact point. I've seen two coaches about my forehand and both have said my contact point needs work. Both said I was contacting the ball too late (which is true). We worked on some bounce-hit drills to get the feeling of hitting out in front.

Both of them said that fixing the contact point will greatly improve the consistency on my forehand, which is what I need to compete at higher levels. I'm not going to jump and try and fix the leg thing with my backhand right away or anything, but it's good to know that's all. I write all this stuff down so I don't forget. Like I said, based on the 1on1 coaching I've gotten, it's pretty clear that the contact point on my FH needs the most attention

PS. I find it funny how many threads there on exactly where you should contact the ball when you serve and how much kinetic energy goes into a serve but I never see threads about where you should make contact with a basic forehand or backhand....

Contact point probably isn't a totally universal thing, I expect.

I have learned through trial-and-error that if I want to hit a heavy topspin shot, I need to contact the ball pretty far out front. The ball won't have a ton of pace, but it will be safe, and it will have a load of topspin. Making contact out in front isn't too tough to learn. It really is just practicing "going after" the ball before it gets to you. If you practice, you'll get the hang of it after a few baskets. I never consciously altered my mechanics. I just told myself to make my move a little earlier. It feels like you are "reaching forward" a little bit towards the ball... but if your arm is loose... it works.

However, to this day, if I want to hit a hard flat shot... I can't hit it that far out in front. I need to make contact closer to parallel to my body. A tad out in front... but only a tad.

I have tried for the life of me to hit a hard flat ball making contact far out in front... I simply cannot do it.

 

[Topspin Shot]

Contact point probably isn't a totally universal thing, I expect.

I have learned through trial-and-error that if I want to hit a heavy topspin shot, I need to contact the ball pretty far out front. The ball won't have a ton of pace, but it will be safe, and it will have a load of topspin. Making contact out in front isn't too tough to learn. It really is just practicing "going after" the ball before it gets to you. If you practice, you'll get the hang of it after a few baskets. I never consciously altered my mechanics. I just told myself to make my move a little earlier. It feels like you are "reaching forward" a little bit towards the ball... but if your arm is loose... it works.

However, to this day, if I want to hit a hard flat shot... I can't hit it that far out in front. I need to make contact closer to parallel to my body. A tad out in front... but only a tad.

I have tried for the life of me to hit a hard flat ball making contact far out in front... I simply cannot do it.

I think of what you're saying as the tip of the racket goes more up for topspin and more through for flat. If the contact point is more out in front, the racket tip will naturally go more up whereas if the contact point is farther back, the tip will naturally go more through.

 

[5263]

Both of them said that fixing the contact point will greatly improve the consistency on my forehand, which is what I need to compete at higher levels.

PS. I find it funny how many threads there on exactly where you should contact the ball when you serve and how much kinetic energy goes into a serve but I never see threads about where you should make contact with a basic forehand or backhand....

Improving the CP in relation to your body is one thing and very important, BUT also improving it in relation to the bounce and ball travel is also a very key aspect of Contact Point.

CP will vary quite a bit depending on the shot intent, but that is mostly about working and shaping the shots. For your purpose, Imo you want to focus on the CP for your Fh CC, I/O, & DTL rally shots as well as work on your Fh CC, I/O, & DTL mid ct attack TS shots.

For example, the CC mid ct attack is probably the most out front of all of these, unless the ball gets past you a bit and you hook it back across court.

Imo though, it's best to just get a good general idea where you would like to hit them out front for a nice strong shot, and then practice to make contact out there more often, even though there are many reasons to use exceptions during your actual play.

 

[anubis]

Hi all

Figured I'd post an updated hitting video. I haven't been able to change much in terms of technique from my prior videos because I've been swamped with school and that takes up a lot of my time.

I tried to lower the hitting elbow on my serve with no results. Same with trying to keep the elbow from going behind me on the forehand..no results. I've had four lessons on my forehand and while I feel like I'm making better contact, it doesn't look as nice as I would like.

The guy I'm hitting with, despite his not so great technique, was the number one 4.0 in the state last year (Scott Harwood). Shows that you don't need pretty strokes to win.

Anyway, I'll take any comments/advice. Footwork/split step/balance advice would be nice mainly because that's something that I can actually fix without shelling out hundreds of dollars on a coach.

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NScB_-EwCQ&feature=youtu.be

Video From 1/25/2015
Link:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRZEExHF5iY&feature=youtu.be

Video from 2/3/2015:
Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTYSeRktaQU&feature=youtu.be

PS. I'm in the grey shirt

My $0.02: it doesn't look like you know how to hit a proper "rally ball". All your forehands were painting the service line. IMO, you can't really compete at the 4.0 and beyond level if you don't have a rally ball.

A rally ball is a shot that's hit with good net clearance, lots of topspin, and avoids the center of the court. Check out this image:

Your rally ball should avoid that box at all costs. If you can avoid hitting balls in that box -- regardless whether you're standing still, on the run, offensive or defensive, then you'll be a very difficult opponent to beat.

But keep hitting within that box, and you'll be very easy to beat.

This works at all levels, even 5.0 and above.

 

[Cheetah]

BB, were you trying to win these points? Or just rallies where you occasionally try to win the point?

 

[Ballinbob]

Some quick responses...

Anubis- What do you think is a good net clearance then so I don't paint the service line? Believe me I can loop the ball very high and very deep consistently but that won't necessarily win against my 4.5 friends. I try my best to have a good balance between pace/spin/height over the net but sometimes it can be difficult.

Cheetah-There were spots of water on the borders of the court so we tried to be mindful of that. That being said, I did try to win the points a lot of the times and still hit down the middle. It would be an aggressive ball down the middle, but nevertheless in the middle.

Going to play with this kid's brother today...Will focus on keeping chin on shoulder for the forehand and to hit the ball out in front. Stay tune

 

[Deleted member 23235]

Some quick responses...

Anubis- What do you think is a good net clearance then so I don't paint the service line? Believe me I can loop the ball very high and very deep consistently but that won't necessarily win against my 4.5 friends. I try my best to have a good balance between pace/spin/height over the net but sometimes it can be difficult.

Hitting a high deep ball with topspin (presuming you're not slowing down your swing speed) that consistently lands 2-3ft from the baseline, would beat alot of people at the 5.0+ level.

I know a guy that played at the ivy's whose entire game was high, deep, topspin shots. It never looked like he should win against hard flat hitters, but they had a hard time attacking his ball.

Use whatever height over the net gets you to make the ball land 2 ft from the service line (without slowing down your racquet head speed).

I used to play this game with a western grip fh... my issue (similar to yours) is that I could never *consistently* get the ball deep... and folks would just wait for the one that hit the service line, then start attacking.

 

[Ballinbob]

Some clips from a practice session today. Kinda disappointed with my contact ....Wasn't hitting out in front as much as I would like. You can tell I'm hitting late because 90% of my forehands go IO, and when you hit cross court you have to hit the ball more in front of you. As for putting my chin on my shoulder, I did it sometimes but definitely not all the time. When I did it correctly I could feel it though...Got the same weight of shot with less effort.

Anyway, hoping next time I can hit some better cross court shots. I think I have two good goals to work on at the moment in my contact point/unit turn on the forehand. Gotta keep reminding myself to defend the contact point...I thought the last vid was better

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZH-6Yim7Yw&feature=youtu.be

 

[Ballinbob]

Nytennis- I know that hitting high and deep is a good tactic. TopspinShot plays like that and it works very well for him. In the video I just showed a lot of my shots were short....I don't think I'll have trouble fixing that though, I can just aim a tad higher over the net like you said and I'll be good. Nobody has ever told me that they beat me because I hit too short but I get what everyone is saying.

 

[5263]

Do you ever ask your hitting partner to stand on one, then the other corner? I think you are too nice and don't want to run them too much, lol. Maybe if he was in that corner and you could work that direction for awhile (then the other) it would help you to expand your target lanes a bit.

 

[5263]

Watching the video, I felt that you managed the CP in relation to the bounce way better than normal. It also seemed you were MUCH more on the prowl for shorter balls and seeking opportunities.

 

[Ballinbob]

With regards to expanding my target lanes...That's something I need to fix somehow. This guy does a good job of keeping the ball high and deep on me so it's not always possible to be hitting corner to corner, but still I should have done better. If you watch the last two mins of the previous vid from 2/3/2015 we did some CC FH drills where I thought we did okay. Overall I was trying to defend the contact point...I really like that phrase.

This time on shorter balls/ mid-court attacks, I tried to plant both feet inside the baseline. Worked really well overall versus camping out much further behind the BL. Was able to put a lot more pressure on him this way. Sometimes I would hit a good deep shot, then he would reply with a short slice BH and I would miss it. Those I struggled with, and I'm going to try and get there earlier next time. Or maybe just try to know the slice BH off with a volley

 

[5263]

have you worked on using that left arm more in the rotation into the shot? It currently looks like you use it to reach across for shoulder turn, then just let it die. That left elbow should lead the way a bit, much like coming out of the bow on serve.

 

[Topspin Shot]

Hitting a high deep ball with topspin (presuming you're not slowing down your swing speed) that consistently lands 2-3ft from the baseline, would beat alot of people at the 5.0+ level.

I know a guy that played at the ivy's whose entire game was high, deep, topspin shots. It never looked like he should win against hard flat hitters, but they had a hard time attacking his ball.

Use whatever height over the net gets you to make the ball land 2 ft from the service line (without slowing down your racquet head speed).

I used to play this game with a western grip fh... my issue (similar to yours) is that I could never *consistently* get the ball deep... and folks would just wait for the one that hit the service line, then start attacking.

Nytennis- I know that hitting high and deep is a good tactic. TopspinShot plays like that and it works very well for him. In the video I just showed a lot of my shots were short....I don't think I'll have trouble fixing that though, I can just aim a tad higher over the net like you said and I'll be good. Nobody has ever told me that they beat me because I hit too short but I get what everyone is saying.

Yeah, I play like that a lot. Like nytennisaddict said about himself, I sometimes get into trouble with hitting too short and getting on the defense. I try to find the balance between playing steady and hitting too short, which works sometimes and not other times.

 

[Ballinbob]

I actually didn't know you were supposed to lead with the elbow. So when I'm set up and turned and have my left arm stretched, what do I do? I think of the forehand as a coiled spring, but what are the sequence of events I should follow?

Or would it best to leave the technical stuff out of it and just try to lead with the elbow and see how I do?

 

[5263]

I actually didn't know you were supposed to lead with the elbow. So when I'm set up and turned and have my left arm stretched, what do I do? I think of the forehand as a coiled spring, but what are the sequence of events I should follow?

Or would it best to leave the technical stuff out of it and just try to lead with the elbow and see how I do?

Don't get carried away with it, but maybe looking at this Fed vid...I like the one at :27secs...can show how the left arm and/or elbow sort of leads the shoulder turn. Someone could make the case that the shoulder turn moves the arm, but Imo, that can lead to that handing arm that isn't part of the form. At 1:26 may even show it better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sm9NiEx4-7I&feature=player_detailpage#t=27

 

[anubis]

Some quick responses...

Anubis- What do you think is a good net clearance then so I don't paint the service line? Believe me I can loop the ball very high and very deep consistently but that won't necessarily win against my 4.5 friends. I try my best to have a good balance between pace/spin/height over the net but sometimes it can be difficult.

A rally ball is all about repeat-ability and high margin for error. Therefore, you want good net clearance -- in this case, no less than 3'. Of course, it also depends on your pace. I don't hit hard at all, so I often go around 5 or 6' above the net to get the ball deep. But just about everyone else I hit with hits way harder than me, so they can hover around 2' and hit close to the baseline.

All depends on how hard you hit the ball.

And, it most certainly is very difficult! It can't be overstated enough.

but I must also add: it also has to do with where you are in the court. Rally ball shots are really for when you're behind the service line. Once your opponent brings your entire body into the court, then rally balls are out of the picture. You're going for angles and pace at that point.

 

[Ballinbob]

Anubis- Thanks for the response. I think 3ft is a reasonable height over the net for someone like me. Something I never understood though, and this is just a general question....Is a short ball hit with heavy topspin really an attack-able ball? I feel like if this was the case then Nadal wouldn't be where he is now.

Don't get me wrong, I realize that I hit too short in that video and I'm aware of the problem. I think there is more than just depth that determines if a ball is attack-able.

------------------------
Also, just a quick update... I'm working on the forehand rotation with a friend of mine. I feel overall, my contact is much better than it was a year ago. I'm still working to perfect it, but I am happy with my progress thus far. With good contact and better rotation into the shot I think my forehand will be a solid shot.

 

[Power Player]

Improving the CP in relation to your body is one thing and very important, BUT also improving it in relation to the bounce and ball travel is also a very key aspect of Contact Point.

This is exactly right. Some people are confusing hitting out in front with what 5263 and I are saying. It's more about the relation to the ball bounce. If you sit there and think about "it's topspin I need to hit it here..its flat, I need to hit it here" that's bad. You don't want to be thinking out there.

The point is to have a defined strike zone and read the ball bounce so you are making contact in that zone while the ball still has energy at it's peak.

 

[5263]

. I think there is more than just depth that determines if a ball is attack-able.

------------------------
Also, just a quick update... I'm working on the forehand rotation with a friend of mine. I feel overall, my contact is much better than it was a year ago. I'm still working to perfect it, but I am happy with my progress thus far. With good contact and better rotation into the shot I think my forehand will be a solid shot.

So true and important in bold above.

Sounds good on the rotation work and CP you are doing

 

[Merlin703]

Ballinbob, my level of play is not high but I will share with you what a couch has been pushing me to do. Very good information on this thread, by the way.
Anyway, I will mention the parts that I think applies to you.

1) Push forward when hitting the ball. Your arms goes forward by your body doesn't (on most of your FH shots). This also takes time away from you to go to the net since your momentum is pushing you back.

2) 3:13 Plant your opposite foot/leg on the front. Pros hit open stance but only because they don't have much time and copying them is a mistake. I practiced my open stance I guess too much that I was hitting 9 out of 10 balls open stance when I had plenty of time to use a closer one. Myself, I'm now closing it more and use my open stance when I don't have much time. It give me MORE dept and pace.

3) 3:13 Don't let your opposite leg be in the air at the moment of impact. I got used to it and I was hitting (ok still) hitting like that too much. That is suppose to be an out of trouble (not enough time) shot and not part of my common shot. I think you are doing the same.

4) Don't cross your right leg too much behind you because it will mess up your balance, let you lose high consciousness of where you are with the net and it's just a bad habit. My couch says I should wear a tutu, if I want to be spinning too much. It make me lose power.

4) Use your hips and shoulders more.

5) You are opening your shoulders too quickly, in many occasions. A good example is at 1:22, on that one it also dropped. On your earlier videos that was more noticeable, however.

I'm working myself on the above. My problem is that my left knee is bad and huts so I'm been compensating, while modifying my game (learning bad habits). My knee has been feeling better for the past 1.5 months so I'm ready to work on fixing my problems. Gotta a new racket, new strings and I'm ready to go. I have also just started changing my physical habits (workout outside of tennis and take some supplements to help my body recover).

Anyway, good luck and again, good info here.

 

[Ballinbob]

Thanks for the response Merlin. I personally don't agree with your second point regarding the open stance but I think the rest of the points are great. I have a lot of balance issues with my forehand and as you noticed hit with my leg in the air many times. I have been doing a lot of lifting/core work which has helped me "feel" my center of gravity better but I am still looking to improve.

Simple things like balance shouldn't be taken for granted. People tend to look at how pretty strokes are instead of more important things like balance and contact. Oh, amd hope your knee feels better

 

[5263]

Ballinbob, my level of play is not high but I will share with you what a couch has been pushing me to do.

1) Push forward when hitting the ball.

2) 3:13 Plant your opposite foot/leg on the front. Pros hit open stance but only because they don't have much time and copying them is a mistake. Myself, I'm now closing it more and use my open stance when I don't have much time. It give me MORE dept and pace.

Some good points in your post, but I also disagree with your coach on the 2 above. If you want your level of play to get higher, you might want to reconsider on the 2 points above. If you can't get good depth and pace with your use of the open stances, then the problem is your technique....not the stance.

 

[Merlin703]

The recent couch, doesn't give me as much of a hard time with my open stance. The previous one, always wanted me to try to hit at close stance, when I have time. She didn't quite yell but she didn't like the fact that I learned watching the pros (Nadal) and many of my shots are similar to his style.

I don't want to take away the thread but I hope some of the info is useful. I will still practice to hit close stance and using my body weight, since it does have a different effect on the ball. Out of the 10 or so items Ballinbob has to improve, I probably have double the amount of corrections

 

[Power Player]

The front leg coming up is a common issue many of us face with an open stance. It is fixed with proper balance and sometimes closing the stance can help with this until you get the feel back.

The other way to do it is to make sure you are balanced before each shot. For example, how many times do players get in a return position with their feet balanced properly, back straight, knees bent after a shot? Many, NEVER get to this point. So just focusing on doing this every single time before the next ball can work wonders.

 

[Ballinbob]

Practiced some serves today. I've been pretty happy with this shot overall and i consider my first serve to be one of my better shots. I am working on getting the toss just a little more into the court and to toss more in front versus to the left. Second serves will be up soon

I know that my elbow is too high but I have spent hundreds of dollars and countless hours trying to lower it without success...so I'm doing the best with what I have. I may eventually give the elbow thing another go but for now I think my forehand is a more pressing issue

Link: http://youtu.be/FURp5RPPwOc

 

[Cheetah]

very poor ball-picking-up technique.

 

[Ballinbob]

Next time I will use the force

 

[psmooth]

Quick note. I also had a high elbow like you. I took a few lessons for it and one cue that worked without messing me up was just focus on the hand relationship to the cheek. It was really easy to think of this during the serve. And it instantly fixed my high elbow. Now when I mess up I just think about where my hand is and it restores itself!!!! It doesn't mess up your swing like thinking about your serve. Try it.

 

[Ballinbob]

I actually kind of like that... I tried Jeff Salzenstein's (sp?) elbow the enemy and it was hard to do. Cheetah had a theory in a previous thread that the high elbow was a result of my strange take back (if I remember correctly). Anyway thanks, something will click for me one of these days haha.

 

[ReopeningWed]

You improved so much! Your strokes flow much better, keep it up!

 

[Ballinbob]

Since I'm on a roll today with the posting, here are highlights from a practice session two days ago. Forehand is starting to feel very, very good. I stop framed a lot of my forehands in this and on average the contact was much better and more in front. Placement of my shots is a good 20% better than my last video IMO, so I'm pleased with that too. I'd like to eventually keep my whole swing more on the right side of my body, but it's a work in progress.

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozZFyNWbji4