Short Little Coaching Session Vid. Advice?

Maximagq

Maximagq

Banned
I am coaching a 13 year old 4 star female player and she is currently at Nationals in Georgia. Any advice for her to improve? Her forehand is pretty big but the serve needs a lot of work. Her backhand is average, not great. Volleys and overall movement are the biggest weaknesses

EDIT: my dad says I don't have the girl's parents' permission to post the link.
 
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Saw 2 minutes of your first clip, and looks like you got your @ss handed to you by a 13 yr old girl :lol:

"13 yr old girls humiliate Maximagq in rallies" - LazyNinja19 :twisted:
 
LazyNinja19 said:
Saw 2 minutes of your first clip, and looks like you got your @ss handed to you by a 13 yr old girl :lol:

"13 yr old girls humiliate Maximagq in rallies" - LazyNinja19 :twisted:
Click to expand...

It's a practice session dude. The intention is to groove her strokes and get her ready for Nationals. She SHOULD be the one kicking my @ss :)
 
When you say "coaching session" - exactly what were you working on - what was the goal for the session and how did you decide what success would look like?

As for the advice, that really depends on what her end goal is? Serve lacks coordination between lower and upper body, there is no lower body action to speak of, she kind of walks through the serve. Arm is loose, but she lacks acceleration in all shots - she never really gets into a loaded position on the forehand, either with her lower body or her upper body.

She looks to have reasonable hands and you have already identified movement as an area to look at.

I would be asking exactly what her goals/aims are though first.
 
Maximagq said:
I am coaching a 13 year old 4 star female player and she is currently at Nationals in Georgia. Any advice for her to improve? Her forehand is pretty big but the serve needs a lot of work. Her backhand is average, not great. Volleys and overall movement are the biggest weaknesses

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZIyrgcJ34s
Click to expand...

Her serve is ok. one reason it is not a weapon is her racquet does not really accelerate upon contact with the ball. she should swing with higher racquet head speed (not harder, but faster).
 
Ash_Smith said:
When you say "coaching session" - exactly what were you working on - what was the goal for the session and how did you decide what success would look like?

As for the advice, that really depends on what her end goal is? Serve lacks coordination between lower and upper body, there is no lower body action to speak of, she kind of walks through the serve. Arm is loose, but she lacks acceleration in all shots - she never really gets into a loaded position on the forehand, either with her lower body or her upper body.

She looks to have reasonable hands and you have already identified movement as an area to look at.

I would be asking exactly what her goals/aims are though first.
Click to expand...

I've only seen the first couple of minutes, but this seems like a good analysis
 
TennisLogic said:
Her serve is ok. one reason it is not a weapon is her racquet does not really accelerate upon contact with the ball. she should swing with higher racquet head speed (not harder, but faster).
Click to expand...

she is using just her arm on that serve.

I agree that she does not really look enthusiastic out there. and of course matt is feeding her and not getting his rear handed:D.
 
I realize now that I didn't get the permission of the parents to post the link and I was wondering if the mods can delete this thread. Sorry
 
About her:

I believe most of the problem on that video is between her ears. Whether it's just that day or overall is up to you to determine. Like Ash, I believe you need to discuss of her game with her before enforcing a solution -even if you're right in your diagnosis.

On the FH side, she has a long, loopy, WTA-ish preparation. But as you've noticed she doesn't have the footspeed -or IMO, "will"- to prepare early enough to match her longer and loopier stroke. Since that kind of preparation leads to a very flat, powerful stroke, she tends to miss long, wide or in the tape.

1) You can work on the quality of her split step and replacement after each stroke. I like Dougherty's "One Dollar per step" approach. Try to tell her that she gets one dollar per step during the rallies. Or one of everything she likes. Hopefully it would lead to higher intensity in her footwork; even if it isn't very accurate yet, she needs to do it faster.

2) You can make her use a shorter takeback. She'd still need to work on her footwork. It's trickier since to re-build or/and significantly changing a stroke you need to make the student accept that the new stroke won't be as good as the old stroke in the beginning. Not tom mention that it takes longer.
If you and her decide to do that, start by making her swing from "pat the dog" position. Left hand across the body and straight, pulling the buttcap towards the ball.

Now about her serve... I believe her form is mostly correct but she indeed could do more; even if most of it has something to do with the intensity she does it. I believe she swings forward instead of upwards towards the ball. In which case, prepare a bucket of old balls and make her pitch upwards correctly, then make he serve and see if there are any improvements. It sounds tedious but that's how it is.

About him:

I think his strokes are mostly correct and not outstanding. The issue is what he does with said strokes. He's rolling everything in and grinding. I didn't watch it entirely, but the length of the video makes me believe it's the case. He may not use a full stroke on his FH but the basics are correct; however he isn't swinging out. He rolls his serve in and loops his BH back.
You need to discuss with him the kind of tennis he wants to produce. Is he happy grinding it this way? Would he prefer to play a more aggressive tennis? Was he taught to bring one more ball back? This will be important to see in which direction you and him are going to work.

[/2cents]
 
I'll second Ash. Still, her serve improved at the end. However, she really did no split stepping except on serve returns. Something to consider.
 
Maybe the key to top level performance as a kid 13 or 14 years old is just to split step every time. I see some top juniors around that age that do not do this . But the nationally ranked ones I would imagine do this everytime.
 
Maybe just show her the video, so she will be embarrassed by her lack of intensity. :)

Looks like she needs ladder and cone drills every day to get her moving like an athlete.

It is difficult when 90% of the kids we're paid to coach aren't very passionate about the sport.
 
NLBwell said:
Maybe she just doesn't like Maximagq.
Click to expand...

arche3 said:
True. kids will not put in best effort when they don't like a certain coach.
Sorry maxmagg. Not implying your a bad coach. :-)
Click to expand...

Potentially true, although I am one of the coaches who never yells at the students. We also talk a lot about non-tennis things, and her mom and dad are always harping about how she doesn't run after balls, gives poor effort, yada yada yada. Not sure if it's just me. She's a good kid, but could use more intensity. a lot more
 
Hard to instill motivation from outside. Some kids have it, other's just stand around until the ball is coming.
It's the COOL factor.
I haven't a glue how to break that bad habit.
 
I consider what Matt is doing is being a hitting partner, not a coach.
A coach needs to work on more than just "hitting" with the student, he needs to recoginize, analyse, and start the precedure to correct the problem in the player, not just hit with and socialize with the player.
Lots of problems with both juniors, that need some addressment.
However, in Matt's defense, his students are forced by the PARENT's to play tennis, so the coach is not the problem, it's the motivation of the juniors shown here that is the problem.
Just watched another BerkeleyJunior tournament this weekend. LOTS of the kids have this problem, a lack of prep, lack of focus, and always trying to look COOL by spinning their rackets, while forgeting to pick up balls on their court, or even to acknowledge the prescence of their opponent's by slamming the ball back to the other side without a look as to where the opponent is standing or what they are doing.
 
Wow, that was painful. I hope she is smart, because she isn't getting any tennis scholarship.

John Wooden, the greatest basketball coach of all time, said the three steps to learning in sport are explanation, demonstration and repetition. This girl needs to have proper movement explained to her, then demonstrated, then she needs to be drilled constantly on it. Only then can you honestly say she is lazy. It's possible she thinks she is moving like a deer on the court.

There is an overall lackadaisical nature to all her strokes. Her serve has several technical faults as well. Her shoulders rotate too horizontally for example.

I have to agree with LeeD. This is not coaching. This is just a hitting session and not a very good one. At the least, it seems to me to deliver honest value, you have to structure a session with some drilling on various strokes and also some work on constructing points, ie directionals, where to recover to, etc. Now she is just hitting aimlessly. It doesn't help that you are making so many UEs.

I hate to be so critical, but if you are expecting to earn money coaching, you need to take it more seriously.
 
RetroSpin said:
Wow, that was painful. I hope she is smart, because she isn't getting any tennis scholarship.

John Wooden, the greatest basketball coach of all time, said the three steps to learning in sport are explanation, demonstration and repetition. This girl needs to have proper movement explained to her, then demonstrated, then she needs to be drilled constantly on it. Only then can you honestly say she is lazy. It's possible she thinks she is moving like a deer on the court.

There is an overall lackadaisical nature to all her strokes. Her serve has several technical faults as well. Her shoulders rotate too horizontally for example.

I have to agree with LeeD. This is not coaching. This is just a hitting session and not a very good one. At the least, it seems to me to deliver honest value, you have to structure a session with some drilling on various strokes and also some work on constructing points, ie directionals, where to recover to, etc. Now she is just hitting aimlessly. It doesn't help that you are making so many UEs.

I hate to be so critical, but if you are expecting to earn money coaching, you need to take it more seriously.
Click to expand...

What the parents usually want me to do is play sets and tiebreaks with her and move her around rather than doing basket feeding. Should I tell the parents that we need to do drills rather than hitting?
 
Maximagq said:
What the parents usually want me to do is play sets and tiebreaks with her and move her around rather than doing basket feeding. Should I tell the parents that we need to do drills rather than hitting?
Click to expand...

Are you her coach? Or a hitting partner that her parents arrange?
 
Rui said:
Are you her coach? Or a hitting partner that her parents arrange?
Click to expand...

I mean I'm technically a hitting partner rather than a main technical coach since she and the boy have their own legitimate "coaches" who instruct them on technique. I try to avoid talking about technical instruction because there may be conflicting opinions between their coaches' views and me.
 
RetroSpin said:
Wow, that was painful. I hope she is smart, because she isn't getting any tennis scholarship.
Click to expand...

IMO this response is excessive; saying "I hope she is smart" is flat-out unnecessary.

Also, the OP did say she was 13, so I don't think you want to flat-out declare she can't get a tennis scholarship - obviously someone can improve quite a bit in 5 years, and there's a lot of Division II and NAIA schools out there.
 
First thing I'd do is lower the net back down to 36" at the tape, you at least owe her that.
Look at the sag on your court compared to the court on the viewers left.
 
RetroSpin said:
Wow, that was painful. I hope she is smart, because she isn't getting any tennis scholarship.

John Wooden, the greatest basketball coach of all time, said the three steps to learning in sport are explanation, demonstration and repetition. This girl needs to have proper movement explained to her, then demonstrated, then she needs to be drilled constantly on it. Only then can you honestly say she is lazy. It's possible she thinks she is moving like a deer on the court.

There is an overall lackadaisical nature to all her strokes. Her serve has several technical faults as well. Her shoulders rotate too horizontally for example.

I have to agree with LeeD. This is not coaching. This is just a hitting session and not a very good one. At the least, it seems to me to deliver honest value, you have to structure a session with some drilling on various strokes and also some work on constructing points, ie directionals, where to recover to, etc. Now she is just hitting aimlessly. It doesn't help that you are making so many UEs.

I hate to be so critical, but if you are expecting to earn money coaching, you need to take it more seriously.
Click to expand...

FitzRoy said:
IMO this response is excessive; saying "I hope she is smart" is flat-out unnecessary.

Also, the OP did say she was 13, so I don't think you want to flat-out declare she can't get a tennis scholarship - obviously someone can improve quite a bit in 5 years, and there's a lot of Division II and NAIA schools out there.
Click to expand...

Yeah that's honestly a really rude response RetroSpin
 
RetroSpin said:
Wow, that was painful. I hope she is smart, because she isn't getting any tennis scholarship.

John Wooden, the greatest basketball coach of all time, said the three steps to learning in sport are explanation, demonstration and repetition. This girl needs to have proper movement explained to her, then demonstrated, then she needs to be drilled constantly on it. Only then can you honestly say she is lazy. It's possible she thinks she is moving like a deer on the court.

There is an overall lackadaisical nature to all her strokes. Her serve has several technical faults as well. Her shoulders rotate too horizontally for example.

I have to agree with LeeD. This is not coaching. This is just a hitting session and not a very good one. At the least, it seems to me to deliver honest value, you have to structure a session with some drilling on various strokes and also some work on constructing points, ie directionals, where to recover to, etc. Now she is just hitting aimlessly. It doesn't help that you are making so many UEs.

I hate to be so critical, but if you are expecting to earn money coaching, you need to take it more seriously.
Click to expand...
I'm guessing maxi is in no way her coach; just a guy hitting with her. She likely has her own coach and, imo, he shouldn't be giving her advice.

And are you kidding? She's only 13 with a very nice game. Tons can happen from 13 to 18 but at 13 she's easily on track for a nice D1 spot. I'd like to see more aggressiveness but who knows the daily mood of a 13 yo.
 
tennis_ocd said:
I'm guessing maxi is in no way her coach; just a guy hitting with her. She likely has her own coach and, imo, he shouldn't be giving her advice.

And are you kidding? She's only 13 with a very nice game. Tons can happen from 13 to 18 but at 13 she's easily on track for a nice D1 spot. I'd like to see more aggressiveness but who knows the daily mood of a 13 yo.
Click to expand...

She has a real technical coach, so I don't want to say too much that will interfere with her technical progress. Her game is pretty good for a 13 year old girl but she has to play because of her own desire, not because her parents want her to play.
 
Maximagq said:
What the parents usually want me to do is play sets and tiebreaks with her and move her around rather than doing basket feeding. Should I tell the parents that we need to do drills rather than hitting?
Click to expand...

This is not what you said in the OP. The thread title is "Coaching Session."

If you said, I am her hitting partner, then my response would have been a bit different.

I realize you are in an awkward position if she already has a coach and her parents are heavily involved as well. I do think there is a middle ground between basket feeding and just mindless hitting.

I would probably try to discuss in more depth with the parents what she needs work on. Clearly movement is at the top of the list. Motivation, energy, hustle, whatever you want to call it, is a big problem that most here picked up on. You need to make her understand that "you play like you practice."

You're not a coach of a team sport where you would just sit her down on the bench if she didn't want to hustle. You have to come up with creative ways to motivate her. One is to play out points off of a feed. You can emphasize learning when to go CC and when to attack DTL. You can demonstrate how to recover to a proper position. After each point or maybe series of points, talk with her and make sure she understands what she did right and wrong.

I wouldn't yell at her but I wouldn't just passively accept her approach either. Positive enccouragment to pick up the pace, drills that require some intensity like covering drop shots or hitting a forcing shot and coming in can help. You can also share your match experience with her and relate it to her training. For eample, " a common situation is x, y or z, and you have to be able to do this to counter it, so I will hit you balls and you practice this, etc."
 
RetroSpin said:
This is not what you said in the OP. The thread title is "Coaching Session."

If you said, I am her hitting partner, then my response would have been a bit different.

I realize you are in an awkward position if she already has a coach and her parents are heavily involved as well. I do think there is a middle ground between basket feeding and just mindless hitting.

I would probably try to discuss in more depth with the parents what she needs work on. Clearly movement is at the top of the list. Motivation, energy, hustle, whatever you want to call it, is a big problem that most here picked up on. You need to make her understand that "you play like you practice."

You're not a coach of a team sport where you would just sit her down on the bench if she didn't want to hustle. You have to come up with creative ways to motivate her. One is to play out points off of a feed. You can emphasize learning when to go CC and when to attack DTL. You can demonstrate how to recover to a proper position. After each point or maybe series of points, talk with her and make sure she understands what she did right and wrong.

I wouldn't yell at her but I wouldn't just passively accept her approach either. Positive enccouragment to pick up the pace, drills that require some intensity like covering drop shots or hitting a forcing shot and coming in can help. You can also share your match experience with her and relate it to her training. For eample, " a common situation is x, y or z, and you have to be able to do this to counter it, so I will hit you balls and you practice this, etc."
Click to expand...

Okay my thread title was a bit misleading. My bad
 
^^^ The discussion should be with the other coach, as opposed the parents.

Matt - if you are a hitting partner that's fine, the individual coach should be setting the agenda and letting you know what she is working on, or at the very least asking her to tell you what he would like her to work on.

Call the other coach and reinforce what he is asking her to work on.
 
Ash_Smith said:
^^^ The discussion should be with the other coach, as opposed the parents.

Matt - if you are a hitting partner that's fine, the individual coach should be setting the agenda and letting you know what she is working on, or at the very least asking her to tell you what he would like her to work on.

Call the other coach and reinforce what he is asking her to work on.
Click to expand...

Yeah I'll contact him, thanks Ash!
 
Is she just doing group lessons with the other coach? If so, you are probably more important to her tennis. I would set a list of goals and get the parents and player on board. If you are successful it can help your resume.
 
I'll bet she does privates.
She can't get to that hitting level with group lessons.
As we all can see, she could use a dose of movement lessons/practice.
 
Sure, YOU didn't have videos when you were learning tennis.
I never ever took or listen to any coaching, and I played OK in A/Open events in the SanFrancisco area.
But, neither of us are the athlete that she is.
 
^^^ Didn't have video - how old do you think I am ;) I would also question how much of an athlete the player in question is - she moves not like an athlete, that was one of the areas highlighted by many.

My point simply was that taking group lessons can still work for a player to reach a high level of tennis (my highest rating here would put me at 5.5 ntrp according the ITF/ITN conversion chart).
 
I"m 65, there was few instruction videos around, and only the rich paid for lessons.
Played 13 A/Opens and 2 Q's, half went to 3rd rounds.
 
I don't understand this "lesson and video thing" nowadaze. I have tons of buds who endlessly watched vids to make borderling PRO levels in several sports.
But I've also seen a few friends make PRO, and didn't take lessons or watch videos.
Talent and determination takes you pretty far.
 
I really think all technical coaching should be done with video. A coach really shouldn't give advice without spending some time looking at slow motion video of the player first. Of course some things are obvious to see when it comes to a beginner, but the swing is just too fast for anyone to see with his eyes.
 
I guess there's no way a player like The Rocket, or his peers, could ever have gotten decent at playing tennis.
Budge didn't have video review or replay.
Neither did Vines, or Sedgeman.
Can't live without that IPod? That's YOUR choice.
 
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