shot ball to cornor

[Sreeram]

I want to know what you guys do in this scenario in a ralley,
1. You get a short ball that you are going to return close to service line in duce court. Assume you are in the middle of duce court service line.
2. Your oponent is stading at the baseline.
2. Now you hit a forehand down the line or cross court? If you go cross court you need to move a lot to cover a down the line passing shot. If you hit down the line it is easy to move in for a put away volley. But now if you oponent predicts that you are returning the shot ball down the line then he moves easily. And hits a cross court backhand into open court.

This scenario is different when the ball is very short and you get a chance to take it inside the service line, but if is it close to service line then there are lots of possibility for you to lose the point than winning it. Please let me know your views.

 

[dozu]

first of all - we are talking percentage here. if you have good technique, on sitters inside the service line you should win at least 7 out of 10.

many new players have problem with this shot, because of arm only swings, not able to put a lot of juice on the ball.

the key is to have a relaxed arm, feather light grip pressure, and use the leg to drag the arm/racket unit up the ball and really brush it.

if you put so much juice on the ball, your opp will be really under the gun.

you either get a clean winner, or an easy volley put away, or force an error.

7/10 at least, should be around 8/10.

 

[5263]

You can do like Rafa and either hurt them with the wide xcourt shot and/or possibly go back to baseline play.
It is one of his biggest plays of consistency that he does not get sucked into net unless he likes the risk/reward; and he is picky.
But like you said, inside the svc line is different.

 

[Sreeram]

first of all - we are talking percentage here. if you have good technique, on sitters inside the service line you should win at least 7 out of 10.

many new players have problem with this shot, because of arm only swings, not able to put a lot of juice on the ball.

the key is to have a relaxed arm, feather light grip pressure, and use the leg to drag the arm/racket unit up the ball and really brush it.

if you put so much juice on the ball, your opp will be really under the gun.

you either get a clean winner, or an easy volley put away, or force an error.

7/10 at least, should be around 8/10.

You dont get my point, I appreciate your comment on how to hit a winner, but the point is, precentage plays says i need to go down the line forehand because that gives me better chance to volley but the oponent knows that down the line is coming, he can easily be at this position. If you try to mix up with cross court, you need to hit a winner, else you expose an open court.
Most of my oponents at 3.5 to 4 level, go for a cross court thinking they have high percentage of hitting a forehand winner but instead they open a court for me to pass them.

 

[dozu]

my point is, if the technique is good, the percentage play is the percentage play... 7 or 8 out of 10 should be expected and accepted.

if you win 5/10 that means either technique problem, or selection problem (shots too predictable)

if you expect 10/10, that is unrealistic.

 

[dozu]

also wonna add, sometimes with such a ball, the opp may have to back peddle to give him enough time to get to your shot, in which case you mix in the occasional drop shot to keep him honest.

there is no way a 3.5-4.0 can cover all 3 possibilities - sharp cross court / deep down the line / drop shot and still be able to salvage 4-5 points out of 10 if he gives up short balls like that, assuming you know how to punish a short one.

 

[FloridaAG]

Opponent's position is relevant to where I would hit it - also height of the ball when I get to it matters. Basically if I am hitting an approach versus trying to put the ball away for a winne I hit it down the line - if I am hitting for a winner I hit it hard and angled short cross court

 

[Sreeram]

ok asuming the technique is right then tell me what will you aim in the above scenario? Will you keep mixing between down the line and cross court aproach?

 

[Sreeram]

Opponent's position is relevant to where I would hit it - also height of the ball when I get to it matters. Basically if I am hitting an approach versus trying to put the ball away for a winne I hit it down the line - if I am hitting for a winner I hit it hard and angled short cross court

Perfect, but somehow i feel the hight of the ball depends on the speed with which i can reach it. On a day when i am quick i get to hit many balls comfortably above the net hight. Else i get to reach the ball when it has fallen below and hence I need to depend on Topspin.
So my question here is what is the deciding point for DTL and Cross winner. If you decide to go cross court, should it always be a winner or is there any other possibility.

 

[dozu]

ok, since the ball is so short, the momentum will carry me to the net, so I am basically committed.... I'd aim mostly down the line to the weaker wing... I am a rightie, so that would be to most guys backhand... if he passes me, I say too good, but I like my chances to win 7-8/10 in that situation.....

I'd hit 2 out of 10 balls cross court to keep him honest.

and if he back peddles, then I'd go 2-3 / 10 drop shots, to pin him honestly to the baseline, so the down the line shots can truely jam him.

 

[dozu]

when you hit cross court, you gotta follow the ball to the net, so you cut off his down the line pass.

let's get real here, if your techniques are good, I say most 4.0 running forehand sucks, they cant hurt you much with it.

I am still suspecting technique issue, because at 3.5-4.0, many don't know how to put juice on the short ball.

when I get hold of one of these, I put so much juice on it, the ball takes a crazy bounce.... it will be lucky for the opp even hits it on the sweat spot, let alone hurting me with an accurate pass.

 

[Sreeram]

ok, since the ball is so short, the momentum will carry me to the net, so I am basically committed.... I'd aim mostly down the line to the weaker wing... I am a rightie, so that would be to most guys backhand... if he passes me, I say too good, but I like my chances to win 7-8/10 in that situation.....

I'd hit 2 out of 10 balls cross court to keep him honest.

and if he back peddles, then I'd go 2-3 / 10 drop shots, to pin him honestly to the baseline, so the down the line shots can truely jam him.

ya you made a valid point, drop shot is another option when on a shot ball. Is it a cross court drop shot?

 

[FloridaAG]

Perfect, but somehow i feel the hight of the ball depends on the speed with which i can reach it. On a day when i am quick i get to hit many balls comfortably above the net hight. Else i get to reach the ball when it has fallen below and hence I need to depend on Topspin.
So my question here is what is the deciding point for DTL and Cross winner. If you decide to go cross court, should it always be a winner or is there any other possibility.

Unless my opponent is leaning to cover the DTL shot, is out of position, or I have hit the same shot oo often and am concerned about being predictable I would almost always hit it DTL if I am not going for a winner as I generally will have less court to cover and if a righty, the backhand passes are generally worse than the forehand. I am playing a lefty with an excellent forehand, I may approach cross-court more regularly.

 

[dozu]

ya you made a valid point, drop shot is another option when on a shot ball. Is it a cross court drop shot?

either one, but down the line drop shot flies the shortest distance and is usually more effective.

 

[dozu]

unless the opp popped up something and landed short.... chances are because these short balls bounce on your court after flying such a short distance, by the time you get to it, most of them will be below the net.

I have recently helped a kid with such problem of not being able to punish such a ball... if you have an arm-only swing with tight grip pressure, you will NOT have good racket head speed to brush the ball.... all you can do is stiff-arm 'boarding' the ball, so you have no margin for error, and you can't go 100% on these things. if you have to alligator arm and hold back and only put 50% power on it so it doesnt go out, you have an technique issue.

when I run up to this ball, I swing HARDER than my normal baseline rally ball. I relax my arm, and use my (usually front) leg to drag my human racket up the ball, then I add forearm/wrist power to put more juice on it.

this way you produce a ball with curvature to clear the net, drops down and explode on the bounce.

He can't hurt you if you can hit short balls like that.

 

[arche3]

ok, since the ball is so short, the momentum will carry me to the net, so I am basically committed.... I'd aim mostly down the line to the weaker wing... I am a rightie, so that would be to most guys backhand... if he passes me, I say too good, but I like my chances to win 7-8/10 in that situation.....

I'd hit 2 out of 10 balls cross court to keep him honest.

and if he back peddles, then I'd go 2-3 / 10 drop shots, to pin him honestly to the baseline, so the down the line shots can truely jam him.

I agree. dtl hard and a few cross court to keep him honest. I don't drop shot really though. I do maybe 1 drop shots a match.

 

[Steady Eddy]

You dont get my point, I appreciate your comment on how to hit a winner, but the point is, precentage plays says i need to go down the line forehand because that gives me better chance to volley but the oponent knows that down the line is coming, he can easily be at this position. If you try to mix up with cross court, you need to hit a winner, else you expose an open court.

I'd hit 2 out of 10 balls cross court to keep him honest.

and am concerned about being predictable I would almost always hit it DTL

I agree. dtl hard and a few cross court to keep him honest.

I think you're talking about 'game-theory' more than technique. As others posters point out, you're right in a sense that the best play is DTL because then you're not going to get passed as easily. However, if you do that ALL the time, you become so predictable that it's less effective, so you need to hit cross-court occasionally to "keep them honest".

 

[dozu]

I agree. dtl hard and a few cross court to keep him honest. I don't drop shot really though. I do maybe 1 drop shots a match.

how come? you don't like the shot or you can't produce it well?

with your power (seen on the wall video), i imagine you can really push guys back.... but some good retrievers will figure out this pattern and park 6 feet behind the baseline and cancel out your power a little... if you drop a few and keep them honest, then your power can penetrate better.

just a thought.

 

[arche3]

how come? you don't like the shot or you can't produce it well?

with your power (seen on the wall video), i imagine you can really push guys back.... but some good retrievers will figure out this pattern and park 6 feet behind the baseline and cancel out your power a little... if you drop a few and keep them honest, then your power can penetrate better.

just a thought.

yeah I know your right. I remind myself to hit a drop shot before points sometimes if the opp presents itself. I don't practice the shot so I can't do it well. So I get burned sometimes by hitting a lame one where all I can do is watch the other guy run up and whip it by me. also when I see a short ball all I have in my head is to crush it. finese is not in my head at all. lol. I just this past month started using a short angled backhand slice to draw the opponent into the court to make him give me a short or floaty ball. My usual backhand is topspin hit hard. to try to get them to give me a less angled ball back where I can use my forehand either inside out or inside in. I am trying to incorporate more finese into my game now. the drop shot is def the next one on my todo list.

 

[dozu]

^^^ ok, try very light grip pressure... my standard bh is a slice, so dropshot comes easy, I just cut under.. very well disguised.

I played badminton for years, that came in handy with the dropper... but couple of years ago I worked on my short games chipping/pitching around the greens, that also really helped.

I also use a flexible Volkl with gut, so equipment helps also.

 

[mightyrick]

I want to know what you guys do in this scenario in a ralley,
1. You get a short ball that you are going to return close to service line in duce court. Assume you are in the middle of duce court service line.
2. Your oponent is stading at the baseline.
2. Now you hit a forehand down the line or cross court? If you go cross court you need to move a lot to cover a down the line passing shot. If you hit down the line it is easy to move in for a put away volley. But now if you oponent predicts that you are returning the shot ball down the line then he moves easily. And hits a cross court backhand into open court.

This scenario is different when the ball is very short and you get a chance to take it inside the service line, but if is it close to service line then there are lots of possibility for you to lose the point than winning it. Please let me know your views.

In the majority of these situations, I hit a slice hard forehand drive right at my opponent's feet. I win the vast majority of these. Most times, the opponent can't handle the pace, the spin, and the lack of a bounce. If they get it back, it usually is a weak lob that lets me hit a good overhead.

There are times when my opponent stands far back behind the baseline anticipating my shot. If that happens, I'll often times just hit a touch drop shot.

 

[LeeD]

Hit your approach shot DTL deep, sit on his possible DTL pass, but anticipate moving quickly over to cover his CC pass. That way, you only set to move ONE way, making the read much faster, and your response SET before he hits the ball.