Shot Clock or Decider Point?

[2nd Serve Ace]

The shot clock is proposed as a way to enforce a rule already on the books, supposedly. (25 seconds to serve)
Head umpire already has a shot clock in the chair, so not sure what the real change is!

Decider points at 3 all, or possibly 4 all would cut down on long games, but not interfere with the pace of a standard game. Maybe alternate between which player gets to choose the side?

So what would everybody prefer?

 

[Mack-2]

No need for any changes. Tennis is perfect. Just enforce the rules.

 

[Deleted member 743561]

The shot clock is proposed as a way to enforce a rule already on the books, supposedly. (25 seconds to serve)
Head umpire already has a shot clock in the chair, so not sure what the real change is!

Decider points at 3 all, or possibly 4 all would cut down on long games, but not interfere with the pace of a standard game. Maybe alternate between which player gets to choose the side?

So what would everybody prefer?

There's no proposal. In two days' time, you and every other tennis fan will begin savoring a season's worth of serve clocks.

Starts in DC. Tracking the remainder of the season for you here.

 

[tenisdecente]

No need for any changes. Tennis is perfect. Just enforce the rules.

/thread

 

[ibbi]

The shot clock is proposed as a way to enforce a rule already on the books, supposedly. (25 seconds to serve)
Head umpire already has a shot clock in the chair, so not sure what the real change is!

Decider points at 3 all, or possibly 4 all would cut down on long games, but not interfere with the pace of a standard game. Maybe alternate between which player gets to choose the side?

So what would everybody prefer?

What is a decider point exactly? I'm for the shot clock (or just the more rigorous enforcing of the rule that already exists) and I think the let rule needs to go straight to hell, but other than that things are just fine as they are. Long games are part of what makes tennis great.

 

[darkhorse]

I've watched quite a bit if World Team Tennis this year, as they're streaming it for free, and they have both a serve clock and no-ad scoring (decider point). No-ad isn't a big deal, it works for the WTT format but I think applying it to tour-level events would be a bit much (challengers, maybe). I'm certain it's been in use for doubles on the tour, I can see it being OK there.

As for the serve clock, watching WTT has shown me two things about it: One, it's not as consistent as you would think. Sometimes it doesn't reset at all, sometimes it resets late, sometimes it resets early. Two, the enforcement can be harsh. I saw a situation where the server had tossed the ball before the clock ran out, but made contact after it read 0, and lost the serve. That doesn't seem right to me, as some people with longer service motions would be at a disadvantage, unfairly IMO. It'll be interesting to see how it works this summer on tour.

 

[van_Loederen]

I saw a situation where the server had tossed the ball before the clock ran out, but made contact after it read 0, and lost the serve. That doesn't seem right to me, as some people with longer service motions would be at a disadvantage, unfairly IMO. It'll be interesting to see how it works this summer on tour.

the 25 secs will be for starting the service motion according to the USO rules.

it's not as consistent as you would think. Sometimes it doesn't reset at all, sometimes it resets late, sometimes it resets early.

it will now start when the umpire enters the score. seems safe. how exactly did WTT do it, technically?

 

[darkhorse]

the 25 secs will be for starting the service motion according to the USO rules.

it will now start when the umpire enters the score. seems safe. how exactly did WTT do it, technically?

I don't know how exactly it all works in WTT, obviously the level of organization is slightly below the WTA/ATP. I think the umpire controls it, but I don't think umpires have the scoreboard control like they do on tour. And I suppose what you described will work better/more consistently, but there will still some inconsistency. Bad ball toss? Audience interrupts server? How are these things handled? My only point is that some see the serve clock as a godsend, but in reality I think it won't be that and will instead lead to a lot of discussions between players and umpires.

 

[Goof]

I don't know how exactly it all works in WTT, obviously the level of organization is slightly below the WTA/ATP. I think the umpire controls it, but I don't think umpires have the scoreboard control like they do on tour. And I suppose what you described will work better/more consistently, but there will still some inconsistency. Bad ball toss? Audience interrupts server? How are these things handled? My only point is that some see the serve clock as a godsend, but in reality I think it won't be that and will instead lead to a lot of discussions between players and umpires.

Not to mention that often the ballkids aren't ready for the next point 25 seconds after the previous point has ended. There are going to be a lot of kinks that have to be worked out and not much time to work them out before deploying the shot clock in a Major.

 

[citybert]

I vote coin flip

 

[van_Loederen]

I think the umpire controls it, but I don't think umpires have the scoreboard control like they do on tour.

hmm, maybe they actually have.

but there will still some inconsistency. Bad ball toss? Audience interrupts server? How are these things handled?

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...t-clock-yay-or-nay.83135/page-5#post-12542557

 

[TahoeTennis]

One serve only, problem solved

 

[Plamen1234]

What I would prefer is certain players to stop time wasting and bouncing the ball multiple times.

 

[Goof]

One serve only, problem solved

This would change the game of tennis for the better in so many ways.

 

[2nd Serve Ace]

So many good points from everyone.

I see the shot clock as gimmicky (maybe just a Rolex ad tie-in?) and fraught with abuse (what if the returner is stalling things!). Plus, it's not being enforced as it stands now, so I would leave it to the judgement of the umpire, but tighten things up.

Decider point is the same as "no ad scoring" just with a more exciting name imho. Not much push for it at the moment but I certainly think it should be tried at some 250 events, particularly the 90 degree+ temps ones!

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[Tennis_Hands]

the 25 secs will be for starting the service motion according to the USO rules

This absolutely cannot be true.

Source?

 

[Ferss111]

Both are bad ideas.

 

[Chadillac]

The shot clock is proposed as a way to enforce a rule already on the books, supposedly. (25 seconds to serve)
Head umpire already has a shot clock in the chair, so not sure what the real change is!

Decider points at 3 all, or possibly 4 all would cut down on long games, but not interfere with the pace of a standard game. Maybe alternate between which player gets to choose the side?

So what would everybody prefer?

No ad scoring already exists in high school and some college. Its used for courts that dont have lights.

Tennis is "a win by 2 sport" i dont like no-add, makes it lucky

Just enforce the 25 sec rule, everything will fall into place.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

I see the shot clock as gimmicky (maybe just a Rolex ad tie-in?) and fraught with abuse (what if the returner is stalling things!).

There are rules for that, but they are not enforced as they should be either.

Nadal abuses them sometimes too.

 

[2nd Serve Ace]

Tennis is "a win by 2 sport" i dont like no-add, makes it lucky

Just enforce the 25 sec rule, everything will fall into place.

Except the Uso has tiebreaks for every set when tied 6-6! Why not have a game tiebreak at 4-4?

I agree with your 2nd point.

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[2nd Serve Ace]

There are rules for that, but they are not enforced as they should be either.

Nadal abuses them sometimes too.

Nadal abuses them both serving and returning! Good point. He needs two towel people, really?

Not to mention the whole turn your back on the server (sharapova) style. Let's not forget the ladies here.

 

[jaggy]

I vote coin flip

Or a shootout. Whoever can hit a target more times wins

 

[Tennis_Hands]

Or a shootout. Whoever can hit a target more times wins

Duel with a weapons of choice?

That will automatically reduce the chances of the loser.

 

[Chadillac]

Except the Uso has tiebreaks for every set when tied 6-6! Why not have a game tiebreak at 4-4?

I agree with your 2nd point.

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You still have to win a tb by two points. I dont like games and sets hinging on a single point. Like they say, once is luck, twice is skill.

I also dont like the receiver being able to dictate which court the serve is hit from.

 

[Tshooter]

... they [World Team Tennis] have both a serve clock and no-ad scoring (decider point)...

Clown tennis.

 

[2nd Serve Ace]

You still have to win a tb by two points. I dont like games and sets hinging on a single point. Like they say, once is luck, twice is skill.

I also dont like the receiver being able to dictate which court the serve is hit from.

You make your own luck in any sport!

Ok so a set is on 2 pts, a game on one point seems appropriate.

Again, what I suggest alternating may not always be the returner, but still the most fair and exciting.

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[Chadillac]

Ok so a set is on 2 pts, a game on one point seems appropriate.

One break = a set often at higher lvls

 

[2nd Serve Ace]

Clown tennis.

Chrissy Everett actually skipped a French open so she could play team tennis!

That was a totally strange world, I admit. But Conners did the same thing for 5 years!

 

[Tshooter]

Chrissy Everett actually skipped a French open so she could play team tennis!

That was a totally strange world, I admit. But Conners did the same thing for 5 years!

It’s the same world it’s always been unless you think human nature has changed recently.

I watched Borg play WTT. Why did he play ? He liked the camaraderie over the grind and loneliness of tour events. Oops, I meant because they gave him a pile of money.

 

[van_Loederen]

Chrissy Everett actually skipped a French open so she could play team tennis!

That was a totally strange world, I admit. But Conners did the same thing for 5 years!

not sure, but from what i've heard the prize money of RG wasn't high back then.

 

[Tshooter]

...
Not to mention the whole turn your back on the server (sharapova) style. Let's not forget the ladies here.

Is Pova the one that started the rudest move in Tennis ? Does anyone remember this before Pova ? It seems more of a WTA move. Can you imagine Fedal or Djokary pulling this ?

 

[2nd Serve Ace]

It’s the same world it’s always been unless you think human nature has changed recently.

I watched borg play WTT. Why did he play ? He liked the camaraderie. Oops, I meant because they gave him a pile of money.

Right, the finances and prestige have been aligned since the early 90s by now.

So there's no misalignment to be argued about in present day.

The 1000s stopped doing 5 sets finals more than a decade ago, the majors need to make a similar adjustment, long overdo.

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[Tshooter]

Right, the finances and prestige have been aligned since the early 90s by now.

So there's no misalignment to be argued about in present day.

The 1000s stopped doing 5 sets finals more than a decade ago, the majors need to make a similar adjustment, long overdo.

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I’m a very strong supporter of BO5 at Majors so you’re barking up the wrong tree. You need time to go out for a bite, bathroom or a stretch and still be able to get back without the match being over. As far as USO the bathroom situation has dramatically improved since they last redid the site but if you’ve experienced the food lines you’d understand.

Not coincidently the only Miami final I recall instantly is when baby VAMOS had Fed down two sets. VAMOS lost in five. VAMOS !

 

[2nd Serve Ace]

I’m a very strong supporter of BO5 at Majors so you’re barking up the wrong tree. You need time to go out for a bite, bathroom or a stretch and still be able to get back without the match being over.

You are aware that USO once had best of 3 up until the quarters at one time!

Not trying to change current best of 5, but speeding up play is still a worthwhile pursuit.

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[Tshooter]

You are aware that USO once had best of 3 up until the quarters at one time!

I went to the USO when they played BO3 until the QF.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

Is Pova the one that started the rudest move in Tennis ? Does anyone remember this before Pova ? It seems more of a WTA move. Can you imagine Fedal or Djokary pulling this ?

Yes, she did start it, at least as a systematic behaviour.

It is disgusting, but at least it is not against the rules.

 

[Tshooter]

Yes, she did start it, at least as a systematic behaviour.

It is disgusting, but at least it is not against the rules.

Sugarpusherpova is also probably to blame for that little pre-serve dance routine that became popular on the WTA tour (e.g., Hantuchova, Ivanovic among others).

 

[astronautzor]

I seriously could not give a rats ass if players break the 25sec rule..

 

[vandre]

the 25 secs will be for starting the service motion according to the USO rules.

so under that interpretation of the rule, this would be legal?

 

[gut wax]

What could be more American than combining US Open serving rule with American Gladiator Snipers?

"That is not the point. I am superior to all posters on the forum, that is the main thing." - sureshs

 

[van_Loederen]

so under that interpretation of the rule, this would be legal?

check this out.
they must be referring to your last service motion before you finally get it done.
the rule makes perfect sense to me as applying it for the ball contact of the serve would put more pressure on the server.

 

[2nd Serve Ace]

What could be more American than combining US Open serving rule with American Gladiator Snipers?

"That is not the point. I am superior to all posters on the forum, that is the main thing." - sureshs

Sorry but this is very absurd line from the original description!

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[Sudacafan]

My vote goes for deciding point plus extended time limit, let’s say one minute.
A lot of suspense... Do you imagine a match point like this!
We could add music in the stadium for this.

 

[2nd Serve Ace]

My vote goes for deciding point plus extended time limit, let’s say one minute.
A lot of suspense... Do you imagine a match point like this!
We could add music in the stadium for this.

Ok so your pushing for 5 all decider?

Don't see that much different from 4 all, to be honest.

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[Chadillac]

Ok so your pushing for 5 all decider?

Don't see that much different from 4 all, to be honest.

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Do you watch team tennis? They had one on tennis channel a few hours ago. The whole tie came down to one point and venus won it.

Its exciting but unfair to the players.

 

[Tshooter]

so under that interpretation of the rule, this would be legal?

I was at that match -- both days. It was fantastic !!! At least day 1. Far more entertaining than some of the matches with FEDR.

Andre came back using the 1970s Moonball. I thought Agassi had the momentum and would come back the second day and win. He lost. I want to say 62 without looking it up so I will (now I'll go check it). Kucera was a very crafty player.

Nope, 63. I seem to recall Kucera broke him very early in the 5th and that was that. So I don't know where 62 came from because you don't get there with one break. People that returned for day 2 of the match were deflated the way it played out.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

check this out.
they must be referring to your last service motion before you finally get it done.
the rule makes perfect sense to me as applying it for the ball contact of the serve would put more pressure on the server.

I asked you, but you didn't answer to my question, and seeing that you continue to repeat the same thing, I will ask you again.

Where is the source that backs up your claim that the players have 25 seconds from the moment they start their service motion?

 

[Sudacafan]

Ok so your pushing for 5 all decider?

Don't see that much different from 4 all, to be honest.

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I was kidding. That would be outrageous.
Thought the sarcasm was evident.

 

[Sudacafan]

Do you watch team tennis? They had one on tennis channel a few hours ago. The whole tie came down to one point and venus won it.

Its exciting but unfair to the players.

I was kidding. That would be outrageous.
Thought the sarcasm was evident.

 

[tennis_pro]

Lol this is gonna be fun.