should I be feeling guilty?

Should OP feel guilty?

  • OP should be ashamed for beating up on 4.0 women.

  • Those wins were legit.

  • Mixed doubles isn’t real tennis.

  • OP should keep streak going until usta bumps him to 5.0.

  • 4.5 should be banned from 8.0.


Results are only viewable after voting.

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
Hmm...when I was a strong 4.5 I played 1-2 seasons of 8.0. I think I was a little over .500. My results were all over the board with the exception of bad losses. It all depended on my partner's confidence. It was high drama, and when she played bad, I found out later from others that she liked to blame it on me saying I was putting too much pressure on her (which I wasn't). For mixed, I much preferred my experiences at 9.0, and overall had a better record there.
The #1 important thing that a 3.5 gal has to be able to do in 8.0 is to be able hold her ground 2” from the net without backing up. If she can’t do that, it’s going to be a miserable day for both her and her partner.

But I’ve found that I can train any 3.5 gal how to be an effective net hugger. And once they “get it” they love it. And it makes life easy for me. And the outcome no longer depends as much on her play.

I used to lose more 8.0 matches, maybe winning 70%.

But in the last 5 years, I’m actually undefeated in usta 8.0 matches (15-0) when playing with 3.5 partners who have played with me at least once previously. I will let fuzzy verify my record and confirm/challenge since he likes to do that.

Again I’m not over level. Just a 4.5 applying a well-refined strategic formula that exploits the loophole. The formula has been refined over 20 years of 8,0 league play with many partners.
 
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travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
I agree with FYB you can't hand pick the results you want to make your case. Over the past few years you do have some losses and some close wins. More importantly, while you have gone 5-0 this year, by my ratings, your opponent's average rating is just 3.63, so below the 4.0 mid-point on average, and as such you've been favored in all five matches and your mixed dynamic rating has dropped slightly.

Now, this would seem to validate your being a 4.5 level player in 8.0 Mixed, but I don't think you are at risk of getting a 5.0M at year-end.

Note you did get two Flex singles league matches in this year, you should have played a third so you could preserve your C rating. Or go get a tournament match in in the next few weeks and you can still do that.
This year my singles league action flamed out in injuries and difficulty lining up matches. There was not any deliberate attempt to avert getting a C rating.

My point about my winning record with partners who I’ve played with before is that it matters a lot more for me in 8.0, because I’m winning with partners who have learned my formula.

In men’s doubles, playing with a new partner is no big deal. But in 8.0, it probably means a loss.

A 3.5 gal who hasn’t played with me before doesn’t already know what to do or where to move to.

For example, when the opponents hit a chip lob up over my partner’s head that’s going to land slightly inside the service line in her ad court alley, her natural instincts might be to take a few steps back to try an overhead. But that’s really bad strategic tennis. She’s backed off the net as the worst player on the court and opponents can pick on her after that. The instant she backs off the net, our expected win probability for that point drops off precipitously.

The % play is for her to stay 2 feet from the net and cross to the center net strap, while the 4.5 guy crosses behind her to hit an offensive overhead. 4.5 aims overhead either DTL or to weaker player, and she is properly positioned at cleanup spot to put away the defensive popup reply over the middle.

There are a number of other situations like this where the correct strategic play based on “regular” doubles is the wrong play in 8.0.
 
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jhick

Hall of Fame
The #1 important thing that a 3.5 gal has to be able to do in 8.0 is to be able hold her ground 2” from the net without backing up. If she can’t do that, it’s going to be a miserable day for both her and her partner.

But I’ve found that I can train any 3.5 gal how to be an effective net hugger. And once they “get it” they love it. And it makes life easy for me. And the outcome no longer depends as much on her play.

I used to lose more 8.0 matches, maybe winning 70%.

But in the last 5 years, I’m actually undefeated in usta 8.0 matches (15-0) when playing with 3.5 partners who have played with me at least once previously. I will let fuzzy verify my record and confirm/challenge since he likes to do that.

Again I’m not over level. Just a 4.5 applying a well-refined strategic formula that exploits the loophole. The formula has been refined over 20 years of 8,0 league play with many partners.
My partner was actually pretty competent at the net, but her serve was atrocious, while her return and baseline game was up and down. She could play great at times, but as soon as she lost confidence, it would spiral downhill quickly.
 

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
My partner was actually pretty competent at the net, but her serve was atrocious, while her return and baseline game was up and down. She could play great at times, but as soon as she lost confidence, it would spiral downhill quickly.
Sounds like more of a non-tennis issue that needed a therapist more than strategic help.
 

nyta2

Legend
Hmm...when I was a strong 4.5 I played 1-2 seasons of 8.0. I think I was a little over .500. My results were all over the board with the exception of bad losses. It all depended on my partner's confidence. It was high drama, and when she played bad, I found out later from others that she liked to blame it on me saying I was putting too much pressure on her (which I wasn't). For mixed, I much preferred my experiences at 9.0, and overall had a better record there.
lol, beginner in the group blames her adv partner for asking her to participate in a point,... in doubles...
is she hot? perhaps she just wanted to buy the skirt and look pretty on the court and/or hang out with the cool kids (you :p).
 

Fintft

G.O.A.T.
You are not the only one, as I watched a friend, a singles club champion doing the same in mixed doubles (that he wins more easily actually).
 

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
Very much so. The drama was something I don't miss and wasn't something I needed to deal with at the 9.0 level.
Strangely enough, I’ve experienced more partner drama in 9.0 matches than in 8.0 over the years.

One of my most bizarre was about 10 years ago. Met my partner day of the match. In warm-up, she is nailing lefty slice aces on every serve. I suggest maybe she should serve first? But she declines.

Then during the match, she ended up having a fear of hitting her toss. She would literally catch her toss more than 10 times per point, so that opposing 5.0 guy was getting visibly annoyed. She double faulted away about 80% of her service points. We did not win.
 

jhick

Hall of Fame
Sounds like more of a non-tennis issue that needed a therapist more than strategic help.
Very much so. The drama was something I don't miss and wasn't something I needed to deal with at the 9.0 level.
lol, beginner in the group blames her adv partner for asking her to participate in a point,... in doubles...
is she hot? perhaps she just wanted to buy the skirt and look pretty on the court and/or hang out with the cool kids (you :p).
Umm....at the time I was about 30 and she was probably almost as old as my mom (mid 50's). I'd say she wasn't going for the looking pretty on the court vibe, LOL!
 

jhick

Hall of Fame
Strangely enough, I’ve experienced more partner drama in 9.0 matches than in 8.0 over the years.

One of my most bizarre was about 10 years ago. Met my partner day of the match. In warm-up, she is nailing lefty slice aces on every serve. I suggest maybe she should serve first? But she declines.

Then during the match, she ended up having a fear of hitting her toss. She would literally catch her toss more than 10 times per point, so that opposing 5.0 guy was getting visibly annoyed. She double faulted away about 80% of her service points. We did not win.
Sure it can happen at any level (eg. Sabalenka), but I would assume it is probably less prevalent at the higher levels.
 

TennisOTM

Professional
I think your ~4.44M rating on Tennisrecord reflects the fact you are very good within the 4.5 range when playing mixed doubles. You have better results than other 4.5 men who play 8.0 mixed with similar partners as yours. You are able to defeat strong 4.0/4.0 pairs while playing with a partner who is substantially worse than the opposing female. Your results are partly due to your general tennis skills and partly due to your successful situational doubles strategy.

If you continue winning and by even greater margins then I don't think a 5.0M rating out of the question.

I also don't think that your case has that much to do with mixed doubles specifically. If there was such as thing as rating-eligible 8.0 men's combo, you partnered with a 3.5 guy who followed your strategic directions, and played that league exclusively, then I suspect your C-rating would also be in the high-4.5 range.
 
I think your ~4.44M rating on Tennisrecord reflects the fact you are very good within the 4.5 range when playing mixed doubles. You have better results than other 4.5 men who play 8.0 mixed with similar partners as yours. You are able to defeat strong 4.0/4.0 pairs while playing with a partner who is substantially worse than the opposing female. Your results are partly due to your general tennis skills and partly due to your successful situational doubles strategy.

If you continue winning and by even greater margins then I don't think a 5.0M rating out of the question.

I also don't think that your case has that much to do with mixed doubles specifically. If there was such as thing as rating-eligible 8.0 men's combo, you partnered with a 3.5 guy who followed your strategic directions, and played that league exclusively, then I suspect your C-rating would also be in the high-4.5 range.
Maybe I can learn something about TR through this, it's discussed that it is very accurate for mixed and also accurate for bump ups which I also agree I have watched it for rating monitoring for sure, but could TJM ("OP") break that reliability or not?

There are two singles matches for OP in there that aren't in UTR. A beat down of 3 and 0 versus a 3.67 and a 6-1 3-6 1-0 3 setter against a 3.44 . Those guys are of course 4.0c. That's all TR has for our OP in singles and perhaps all USTA has.

"If you continue winning and by even greater margins then I don't think a 5.0M rating out of the question."

While I see OP has gotten a TR number increase from mixed activity, the 4 mixed matches he has played this year, and wow his TR is pretty sensitive to these matches for some reason,
If the bump up would be USTA 5.0C, how could those singles results not anchor OP to 4.5, but for the 4.5C rating if OP was a 4.0C those results would even keep him there at 4.0c I would think.

Maybe there is a hidden TR thing I am missing because I don't see a bump possible , unless it was a never been done before one, educate me.
 

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
Update:

I am in the line-up for Saturday.

As mentioned, my 8.0 record is historically much better when playing with a partner who I have played with at least once previously (for obvious reasons).

In the last 5 years, my only 3 losses have come with a new partner playing with me for the first time. I am 1-3 in first-time pairings, and 15-0 when I have played at least once prior with my partner.

On Saturday I will be partnering with one of the 3 players who I lost with.

Since this will be the second time with her, history suggests I should do better. But this will be a good test.
 

schmke

Legend
Update:

I am in the line-up for Saturday.

As mentioned, my 8.0 record is historically much better when playing with a partner who I have played with at least once previously (for obvious reasons).

In the last 5 years, my only 3 losses have come with a new partner playing with me for the first time. I am 1-3 in first-time pairings, and 15-0 when I have played at least once prior with my partner.

On Saturday I will be partnering with one of the 3 players who I lost with.

Since this will be the second time with her, history suggests I should do better. But this will be a good test.
Your opponent has a big roster so who knows who you will face, but they could put out a couple of very strong 4.5/3.5 or 4.0/4.0 pairs. Face one of those and do well, and the USTA computer could be impressed.
 

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
Your opponent has a big roster so who knows who you will face, but they could put out a couple of very strong 4.5/3.5 or 4.0/4.0 pairs. Face one of those and do well, and the USTA computer could be impressed.
Yes it looks like they are combined 17-3 in sets and 70% games won %, which makes them most the dominant team in the 9-team flight. Probably has some ringers there.
 
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travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
Tonight against the ringer team who had been winning at a 70% of all games clip, I got matched up against their strongest player.

He was an age 30ish teaching pro, TR 4.46, WTN 21 UTR 9.x in singles and 100% reliability UTR 8.x in doubles. He had a 19-3 overall career record on TR as a 4.5, with zero career losses in regular season usta league play (only losses in sectionals or tournament).

And his partner was pretty good too.

Unfortunately, my consecutive sets win streak came crashing to a halt.
 
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travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
But man, was that a crazy match…. possibly the craziest usta league match I’ve ever been a part of…
 

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
The opposing guy was a lefty with wicked American twist serve. He also wore an arm sleeve and a headband, both of which scare me as it means he’s going to finish strong. Neither my partner nor I could return his serve very well.

But I was pretty dialed in on executing my formula, and using mostly Aussie in deuce on my serve (with the guy in deuce), and I-formation on my partner’s serve both sides, we rolled and held our serves, and got a break of the gal’s serve, to win the first set 6-4…

That’s when things turned a bit ugly…
 
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travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
While I was sharp and executing all my volleys and overheads well in the first set, I was just a little bit off to start the second, and made a few volley errors. Combined with winners starting to flow off the opposing guy’s racquet, using his big NextGen fh well and being pretty active at net, and the opposing 3.5 gal starting to become a wall at net, the second set wasn’t going well. We fell into an 0-5 hole…
 
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travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
At that point, I started mentally prepping for how we would play the super. I told my partner that I was going to play at a really slow pace on my service game to wait out my drift (to hopefully stabilize). I held, but then we dropped the set 1-6…

I went inside the dugout to fetch water… but I told my partner that I was doing it to ice our hot opponents. I only took a minute or two, but I figured every minute helps…
 
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travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
The match tiebreak was a seesaw affair. With two 4.5M/3.5F combos battling, there were several 4-point swings.

We went down 2-4, but bounced back to lead 6-4. I was starting to assert myself again. We took an 8-5 lead, but then we lost both points on opposing gal’s serve. Then with me serving at 8-7 to the gal, I choked a deep overhead by not fully committing, hitting it too softly where guy could reach it from the net and we lost the point, and then I also lost my other serve point to give them match point on his serve, with his unreturnable twist serve incoming…
 
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travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
Somehow we survived that 8-9 point with my 3.5 partner suddenly morphing from an 3.5 into a clutch heroine. I had her start on defense, and guy tried to pick on her, but she ended up finishing the point with a miraculous swinging volley blast from below the net, crosscourt winner.

Now it was 9-9 and I felt lucky to be alive… change of ends…
 
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travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
Over the next several points, other team had match points at 10-9, at 11–10, and 12-11. But somehow we saved all those and got to 12-12.

Then we were informed that we would have to switch courts…
 

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
We faced another match point at 13-12 them, this time on his serve again. I was able to hit a quality return somehow to save that one to get back to 13-13.

Then with him serving his nasty lefty twist to my partner, she was able to get his serve in play for the first time all night. She somehow floated it DTL past/over the gal into the corner, and he reached it couldn’t do much with it.

Match point on my partner’s serve. Opposing gal hits a perfect flat deep lob return middle, good enough that I have to let my partner play it. She’s backed up almost to the back curtain, but somehow magically hits a perfectly executed topspin lob that lands 6” inside baseline, gets over the guy’s head, and other gal couldn’t reach it as it bounced up into the curtain.

We survived to win 15-13. Saving 5 match points.

Unfortunately the undefeated superteam swept my teammates, winning in straight sets on the other two courts.

But no guilt tonight.
 
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Moon Shooter

Hall of Fame
I wonder about the whole icing the team that is hot strategy. When the other team botches a point sometimes I really take my time in hopes they will keep thinking about what they just did.

So you won 6-4 1-6 1-0. So the sum of the opposing teams UTRs should be about the same (the match tiebreak counts for 2 games in UTR) as the sum of you and your partner's UTRs. Was that the case? Although your utr is not reliable right?
 

Moon Shooter

Hall of Fame
it's discussed that it is very accurate for mixed

I have never seen any substantial data focused specifically on TR but in my experience TR is absolutely horrible for mixed.

TR is based on NTRP and Schmke has shown how there are clear biases for different teams (Higher level male versus equal level versus higher rated female) at different levels for NTRP.

Those biases make it clear that at least NTRP is not a good rating system for mixed. I doubt TR is better.
 

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
Update. I stayed at 4.5c (actually 4.5M) for at least another year, despite finishing the season with my 10th consecutive win in usta play.
 

TennisOTM

Professional
Maybe I can learn something about TR through this, it's discussed that it is very accurate for mixed and also accurate for bump ups which I also agree I have watched it for rating monitoring for sure, but could TJM ("OP") break that reliability or not?

There are two singles matches for OP in there that aren't in UTR. A beat down of 3 and 0 versus a 3.67 and a 6-1 3-6 1-0 3 setter against a 3.44 . Those guys are of course 4.0c. That's all TR has for our OP in singles and perhaps all USTA has.

"If you continue winning and by even greater margins then I don't think a 5.0M rating out of the question."

While I see OP has gotten a TR number increase from mixed activity, the 4 mixed matches he has played this year, and wow his TR is pretty sensitive to these matches for some reason,
If the bump up would be USTA 5.0C, how could those singles results not anchor OP to 4.5, but for the 4.5C rating if OP was a 4.0C those results would even keep him there at 4.0c I would think.

Maybe there is a hidden TR thing I am missing because I don't see a bump possible , unless it was a never been done before one, educate me.
Sorry I somehow missed this post at the time. If he had gotten a 5.0 rating it would not have been 5.0C, it would have been 5.0M (mixed exclusive). The two men's singles matches he played were not enough to give him a C rating for the year, you need at least 3 rated, non-mixed matches to get a C rating.

The M rating is calculated based only his mixed doubles results - the two singles match results are not averaged in. That's the way USTA does it, and also the way TR does it - the estimated rating at the top of his TR page is based only on the mixed match results (colored in red) for 2024.

At one point his mixed TR rating was as high as 4.43, though it dropped to 4.35 after his last match that he described above in this thread. And indeed USTA gave him a 4.5M rating. If he and his partner had blown away their opponents in that match, instead of losing 10 games, I think there's an outside chance he could have gotten 5.0M.
 
Sorry I somehow missed this post at the time. If he had gotten a 5.0 rating it would not have been 5.0C, it would have been 5.0M (mixed exclusive). The two men's singles matches he played were not enough to give him a C rating for the year, you need at least 3 rated, non-mixed matches to get a C rating.

The M rating is calculated based only his mixed doubles results - the two singles match results are not averaged in. That's the way USTA does it, and also the way TR does it - the estimated rating at the top of his TR page is based only on the mixed match results (colored in red) for 2024.

At one point his mixed TR rating was as high as 4.43, though it dropped to 4.35 after his last match that he described above in this thread. And indeed USTA gave him a 4.5M rating. If he and his partner had blown away their opponents in that match, instead of losing 10 games, I think there's an outside chance he could have gotten 5.0M.
You might be right, since these posts we learned TR is not doing well lately in bump ups (see complaint thread where everyone around the countrydumps on TR for 2024-25 bump ups or downs inaccuracies) , so maybe that's out the window now.

Anyway, I just can't see anyone ever getting a bump up to 5.0c playing 8.0 mixed, even 5.0m. Playing 9.0 mixed and going to national championships seems more reasonable.
 

Moon Shooter

Hall of Fame
Anyway, I just can't see anyone ever getting a bump up to 5.0c playing 8.0 mixed, even 5.0m. Playing 9.0 mixed and going to national championships seems more reasonable.

It would seem very likely since 4.5 males tend to slightlyoverperform for their rating at mixed 8.0.


So it would seem if a 4.5 male wanted to get a bump to 5.0 they would do well to play 8.0 mixed.
 

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
OP should be ashamed there is no video along with his stories, and the fact he still hasn't been through AZ to meet up.

giphy.gif
 
It would seem very likely since 4.5 males tend to slightlyoverperform for their rating at mixed 8.0.


So it would seem if a 4.5 male wanted to get a bump to 5.0 they would do well to play 8.0 mixed.
Ha-ha, prove it with a player in the real world. It would almost never happen, I've had mixed crazed friends go to nationals in mixed year after year in a row and not get bumped. Mixed is a safe space so to speak.
 

nyta2

Legend
There’s kind of a loophole in the usta rules that lets me play doubles as a 4.5 in 8.0 mixed.

In theory, a matchup of 4.5M/3.5F vs. a 4.0/4.0 or 3.5M/4.5F should be a fair fight.

But the reality is that it isn’t.

I’ve now won my last 14 consecutive sets of usta league tennis, with a variety of 3.5 lady partners, with zero sets even going to a tiebreak.

I played well in some of these, poorly in others. I’m not over-level, but just a crafty old guy enjoying an unfair advantage in the rules.

Please kindly (or unkindly) express your opinions, or vote anonymously in the poll. Multiple choices allowed.
revisiting this thread because a couple debate/argument happened on court over the last couple weeks.

#1. 9.0 match.. 5.0+low4.0 vs. high4.5+high4.5... the low4.0 really had no business on the court at the 4.5's actively had to avoid her because she was terrible..
the 4.0 got to 4.0 based on the merit of her moonballing, her forecourt game was terrirble, but she insisted on playing net "to get better"...
the guy 4.5 hits huge (though inconsistent)... eg. 110mph + monster forehand (bh is suspect relatively speaking, but besides returns against 5.0, he never has to hit it in doubles).
so the match was basically against the 5.0 (though any hard shot from the 4.5's would have been an easy point against the 4.0)

#2. same 5.0 (above) +different low 4.0... he got mad when the opposing 5.0s was targeting his very weak partner..
technically not against the rules. but against the "unwritten rule of good players" not to attack the very very weak player...

<a couple other scenarios that fell into these buckets>

anywho, my takeaway, is that even in 9.0 the low-to-mid 4.0F don't belong on court with 4.5's... only works if folks are following the, "(wink wink) don't crush the weak4.0 (and below) F"..
but from the usta stance "it's boosting participation..."
 

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
revisiting this thread because a couple debate/argument happened on court over the last couple weeks.

#1. 9.0 match.. 5.0+low4.0 vs. high4.5+high4.5... the low4.0 really had no business on the court at the 4.5's actively had to avoid her because she was terrible..
the 4.0 got to 4.0 based on the merit of her moonballing, her forecourt game was terrirble, but she insisted on playing net "to get better"...
the guy 4.5 hits huge (though inconsistent)... eg. 110mph + monster forehand (bh is suspect relatively speaking, but besides returns against 5.0, he never has to hit it in doubles).
so the match was basically against the 5.0 (though any hard shot from the 4.5's would have been an easy point against the 4.0)

#2. same 5.0 (above) +different low 4.0... he got mad when the opposing 5.0s was targeting his very weak partner..
technically not against the rules. but against the "unwritten rule of good players" not to attack the very very weak player...

<a couple other scenarios that fell into these buckets>

anywho, my takeaway, is that even in 9.0 the low-to-mid 4.0F don't belong on court with 4.5's... only works if folks are following the, "(wink wink) don't crush the weak4.0 (and below) F"..
but from the usta stance "it's boosting participation..."
In my experience in 9.0, the best teams are either 5.0M or strong 4.5M with 4.0/4.5F willing to role play as net hugger (same as in 8.0).
 

nyta2

Legend
In my experience in 9.0, the best teams are either 5.0M or strong 4.5M with 4.0/4.5F willing to role play as net hugger (same as in 8.0).
true true...
my commentary is more along the lines of "some folks should not be playing 8.0/9.0".
most of my 4.5+ buddies refuse to play mx
i kinda use it as an opportunity to play against more 5.0 teaching pros, but am in the boat of never going after the F... gets kinda fun, dueling against the opposing 5.0,... and even find it fun watching the 2 F duel each other..
 

robyrolfo

Hall of Fame
Then stick to 10.0 mixed for tennis, and then to satisfy your "interesting strategy" cravings, go learn chess or something!
His "strategy" is to take everything. What a class act. Can only imagine the women he plays with...

The #1 important thing that a 3.5 gal has to be able to do in 8.0 is to be able hold her ground 2” from the net without backing up. If she can’t do that, it’s going to be a miserable day for both her and her partner.

But I’ve found that I can train any 3.5 gal how to be an effective net hugger. And once they “get it” they love it. And it makes life easy for me. And the outcome no longer depends as much on her play.
Honestly, you sound like a doughnut in this thread. And it's hard for me to imagine that some of the 4.0/4.0 mixed teams I know wouldn't completely smoke you.

“Mixed doubles isn’t real tennis.”
There you go. Co-ed sports are for fun, not competition.
You aren't playing with the right women.
 

norcal

Legend
Mixed league sounds so baffling to me. The best strategy is to get the highest rated man (or underrated man) and the lowest rated women so the man can take 75% of the court and the other team's 'good player' is violating the unwritten rules if he picks on the weak woman.

Seems to me the risk of your choice to field such an unbalanced team would be the weaker player would get hammered unmercifully (like you see in pro mixed).

Unlike social mixed, when you're playing league/tourneys isn't the point to win?

I hate playing dubs with a player 2 levels below me, what's the point? You guys pay fees and use prescious tennis time to choose to play with lousy partners and follow unwritten rules to protect the lousy partners? wtf
 

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
Mixed league sounds so baffling to me. The best strategy is to get the highest rated man (or underrated man) and the lowest rated women so the man can take 75% of the court and the other team's 'good player' is violating the unwritten rules if he picks on the weak woman.

Seems to me the risk of your choice to field such an unbalanced team would be the weaker player would get hammered unmercifully (like you see in pro mixed).

Unlike social mixed, when you're playing league/tourneys isn't the point to win?

I hate playing dubs with a player 2 levels below me, what's the point? You guys pay fees and use prescious tennis time to choose to play with lousy partners and follow unwritten rules to protect the lousy partners? wtf
I think in league play at 8.0/9.0, there are no unwritten rules about not hitting to the women - teams are just trying to win. You are not going to headhunt when you get easy shots/OHs, but you wouldn’t do that in men’s doubles either. But I agree with you that a 4.5 man playing with a 3.5 woman (who is probably like a high 3.0 man) does not sound like fun. When I play 8.5 doubles socially with my 4.0 wife, it is more fun as she can hold her own against 4.0/4.0 men or 4.0/4.5 mixed teams.

Very unbalanced doubles is not fun for me whether it is men’s or mixed - I think some guys just like the coed aspect of mixed doubles where typically there is more socializing over food after matches also. USTA should consider having 7.5, 8.5 leagues for mixed also in addition to the 7.0/8.0/9.0 leagues as there might be more chance of evenly matched players playing together. The fundamental issue for USTA is the way that mens and women’s ratings are not on the same scale with a 0.5 level difference.
 

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
Mixed league sounds so baffling to me. The best strategy is to get the highest rated man (or underrated man) and the lowest rated women so the man can take 75% of the court and the other team's 'good player' is violating the unwritten rules if he picks on the weak woman.

Seems to me the risk of your choice to field such an unbalanced team would be the weaker player would get hammered unmercifully (like you see in pro mixed).

Unlike social mixed, when you're playing league/tourneys isn't the point to win?

I hate playing dubs with a player 2 levels below me, what's the point? You guys pay fees and use prescious tennis time to choose to play with lousy partners and follow unwritten rules to protect the lousy partners? wtf
If opposing teams could win points by blasting the 3.5F net hugger, they would. But if the 4.5 guy can keep enough pressure on the 4.0/4.0 tandem, the 4.0/4.0 team cannot blast at the 3.5F effectively or reliably enough to win, especially if the 4.0F is playing most of the shots. They can usually do enough to direct balls at the 3.5F, but not enough to keep her from angling off winners when she’s 2” from the net as she should be. So they are forced to play majority of balls to the rest of the court and deal with the 4.5 guy, either lobbing the 3.5F and challenging the 4.5 to cover with roll-across overhead or swinging volley, or trying to get the ball to the 4.5M guy’s feet. It becomes a strategic chess match.
 
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socallefty

G.O.A.T.
USTA should consider having 7.5, 8.5 leagues for mixed
While playing at my club today, I saw a USTA mixed doubles league match going on and found out it is for a 8.5 holiday league. I had no idea that such a league existed or that my club fielded a team in it. One of the players looked like an TTW poster and I wonder if he was playing.
 
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