Should I be using a "tweener"

Too stiff for me (70 rating)

Ha Jack I was just thinking that u might really like the biometric Dunlop 200 plus with the 100sq in head size.

Jack have u also tried 18 gauge string to help with your power- u could play around with that too.
 
Ha Jack I was just thinking that u might really like the biometric Dunlop 200 plus with the 100sq in head size.

Jack have u also tried 18 gauge string to help with your power- u could play around with that too.

When do those Biometric Dunlops come out?

I really don't need help with power. I was just trying to make things easier on myself to where just a nice easy swing can produce groundstrokes deep in the far court.
 
I really don't need help with power. I was just trying to make things easier on myself to where just a nice easy swing can produce groundstrokes deep in the far court.

You realize that doesn't really make sense right? :)

I think the new Dunlops come out in November.

I would also suggest stringing at low tensions. If you want to play above a 3.5 game, which I know you will most likely attain because you play a lot, you will need to make a decision. Do you want more power and depth in your shots with an easy swing? Then you want a tweener, OR you can string low with a comfortable and light player's stick. The new trend seems to be going in that direction. A lot of companies are releasing sub 11.5 player's sticks now. The stiffer ones will pack the power you want, and the flexier ones will need you to string at a lower tension if you want more depth.

Regardless, you will want to keep working on your topspin strokes because the more you play, the better and better you will get at weight transfer on shots that you currently are not in position for. So you will progressively hit a heavier ball with more consistency, while still using a relaxed swing. The way to control the depth of these shots will be with good topspin.
 
You realize that doesn't really make sense right? :)

I think the new Dunlops come out in November.

I would also suggest stringing at low tensions. If you want to play above a 3.5 game, which I know you will most likely attain because you play a lot, you will need to make a decision. Do you want more power and depth in your shots with an easy swing? Then you want a tweener, OR you can string low with a comfortable and light player's stick. The new trend seems to be going in that direction. A lot of companies are releasing sub 11.5 player's sticks now. The stiffer ones will pack the power you want, and the flexier ones will need you to string at a lower tension if you want more depth.

Regardless, you will want to keep working on your topspin strokes because the more you play, the better and better you will get at weight transfer on shots that you currently are not in position for. So you will progressively hit a heavier ball with more consistency, while still using a relaxed swing. The way to control the depth of these shots will be with good topspin.

Are you stringing on the low side with the 4D 300 tour? It would seem to me that lighter players sticks strung lower would be the way to go and from what you're saying it would seem that racquet manufacturers are filling that need. On the other hand, I can understand Jack's quote about being able to generate power with any stick. I feel the same way, but at least for now, I don't know if I could or want to sustain that effort over a long match. Also, another real advantage for me with a lighter frame is defense. Again, for me, I can get back and actually go on the offensive with shots that I would be late on with a heavier frame. I also have a much more effective serve with a more powerful frame.

Tweener = Tennis Viagra:)
 
You realize that doesn't really make sense right? :)

What I meant was...I don't need any MORE help with power. These tweeners have a lot more power than I am used to and the power level is more than adequate now. I DID need more power before, but don't need any more than what the EXO3 strung at mid levels with a multi mains will give me. Does that make sense now?
 
Are you stringing on the low side with the 4D 300 tour? It would seem to me that lighter players sticks strung lower would be the way to go and from what you're saying it would seem that racquet manufacturers are filling that need. On the other hand, I can understand Jack's quote about being able to generate power with any stick. I feel the same way, but at least for now, I don't know if I could or want to sustain that effort over a long match. Also, another real advantage for me with a lighter frame is defense. Again, for me, I can get back and actually go on the offensive with shots that I would be late on with a heavier frame. I also have a much more effective serve with a more powerful frame.

Tweener = Tennis Viagra:)

PR, you nailed it (see bolded). I played some more last night and there were many times my opponent had the upper hand and I was able to keep in the rally due to the lighter and powerful stick. AT my level (3.5+), keeping the ball in play will win you many points :) When out of position or on the run, I was able to "poke" the ball back over the net and scramble for a better shot on the next one. When I AM in position, my swing looks much like it was with a players racquet....long stroke with good follow through and weight transfer.
 
Jack, do you have a full swing or do you have a block-ish shots?

EDIT: wow, you answered my question 1 minute before I asked you! :D
 
If you want to play above a 3.5 game, which I know you will most likely attain because you play a lot, you will need to make a decision. Do you want more power and depth in your shots with an easy swing? Then you want a tweener, OR you can string low with a comfortable and light player's stick.

I agree, but either one will probably do. The lighter tweener will be a little easier to use, due to bigger sweetspot and more power. But...the lighter players stick might prove better if I find myself wanting to swing out more often and hitting long too much of the time. In the end, it should be whatever works better for your game. The beauty of the tweener, is that you really can play any way you want with it. The EXO3 kind of "maxes out" in power when you swing really fast and you can still keep the ball in with proper swing path and technique. So I guess the decision boils down to how agreesive you want to be throughout the course of a match.

A perfect example of the "lighter more comfortable players stick" is the Becker London. If I ever can get my hands on one, I would love to try it.
The Dunlop 4D 300 (16x19) might also be one. The open pattern gives more pop than the Tour model, but it still seems more like a control racquet to me.
 
Jack, do you have a full swing or do you have a block-ish shots?

EDIT: wow, you answered my question 1 minute before I asked you! :D

The answer is....BOTH :)

I definitely enjoy swinging full and long more, but there are time when a relaxed 3/4 swing works. I am going to try and get a video done soon of my strokes to clear up the mystery behind my "technique" or lack thereof :)
 
Yep, I definitley want to try the 300 out myself. I can string it at around 45#s and add some lead and leather, and still keep it under 12 ozs.
 
Good discussion. I play at the 4.0 level and have similar sentiments to you Jack. That being, play with the racket that allows you to be the most consistent.

It could be you benefit from the easy power of a tweener to keep the ball in play or like a heavier frame to keep the power lower and keep the ball in the court.

Either way, smart that you recognize that without consistency, you will always have a tough time winning.

Good luck with your search. and too bad you use a 4 and 1/2 grip bc I have a badically new Becker London for sale....:)
 
Are you stringing on the low side with the 4D 300 tour? It would seem to me that lighter players sticks strung lower would be the way to go and from what you're saying it would seem that racquet manufacturers are filling that need. On the other hand, I can understand Jack's quote about being able to generate power with any stick. I feel the same way, but at least for now, I don't know if I could or want to sustain that effort over a long match. Also, another real advantage for me with a lighter frame is defense. Again, for me, I can get back and actually go on the offensive with shots that I would be late on with a heavier frame. I also have a much more effective serve with a more powerful frame.

Tweener = Tennis Viagra:)

PR,I am stringing very low. I string soft poly at 44#s on the 300 Tour. And for me it is the way to go. I messed with the APDGT and it was just way too powerful for me to string low tension poly with. I don't like full poly higher then 50#s, so I can't really use a tweener. The light sticks are great because you can use a little lead and leather to balance them how you want.

Like I have been saying, the Tfight 305 looks like it could be awesome, and I want to grab a Dunlop 300 also before I completely settle back in. But it will be tough to beat my setup on the 300tour. I wish I could hand it off to people on here and let them try it, but I guess that will only happen with the Central FL TW guys I hit with. :)
 
just an idea...what about a racquet that could cover a good range from tweener to player's rac depending on what you put on it? for example, I use the Bab Pure Storm GT and it lends to this very well. played stock the balance is slightly HL and about 310 grams, control is great. add some lead near the top of the handle and it becomes about 315-320 g and 3-4 pts HL--a bit more heft, same control and feel. switch the grip to leather and it becomes about 335-345 g and 6-8 pts HL, matching your volkl in most specs except for beam width and string pattern! I've tried both adding just a little weight vs significant weight to the handle, and each time it still performed well. I love this frame because the weight in the hoop feels just right whether the racquet is left at 310 g or handle-weighted to 350. so I leave the head alone, and no matter how I change the handle weight, the control and ball-impact feel on the strings stays the same. It is extremely stable and solid enough to be weighted to 350 and doesn't feel tinny or hollow against fast-paced hitting. Interestingly, when it's weighted to equal the static weight of the PSTourGT, the PSGT is more HL.

other racquets that come to mind that would allow this are the older PS and Dunlop 300, and I guess many more that I haven't looked at.

on the other hand, an example of a tweener that would not be good for this is the BLXTour(orange-blue) because the swingweight is already very high, so you can't add anything and are stuck with the exact same set up no matter what your fitness/health/injury situation is at the moment.
 
p.s finding a racquet that lends very well to weight adjustment has been such a relief for me because being a recreational player my fitness and strength fluctuate a lot--sometimes I go for months with no practice, due to work/travel or whatever, some periods I play almost every day for months, and other periods it's something in between. With the same racquet, as opposed to switching between several different ones, even when weighted differently at least the feel is the same all the time.

good luck with your tests jack!
 
Good discussion. I play at the 4.0 level and have similar sentiments to you Jack. That being, play with the racket that allows you to be the most consistent.

It could be you benefit from the easy power of a tweener to keep the ball in play or like a heavier frame to keep the power lower and keep the ball in the court.

Either way, smart that you recognize that without consistency, you will always have a tough time winning.

Good luck with your search. and too bad you use a 4 and 1/2 grip bc I have a badically new Becker London for sale....:)

Why are u selling the London? What didn't u like about it?
 
What I meant was...I don't need any MORE help with power. These tweeners have a lot more power than I am used to and the power level is more than adequate now. I DID need more power before, but don't need any more than what the EXO3 strung at mid levels with a multi mains will give me. Does that make sense now?

Still 18 gauge in a tweener will feal great. With you wanting to swing at a certain pace and have feel etc 18 sounds like another asset u should have
 
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Still 18 gauge in a tweener will feal great. With you wanting to swing at a certain pace and have feel etc 18 sounds like another asset u should have

Problem is 18g in a open pattern can lead to lots of string breakage.
 
Why are u selling the London? What didn't u like about it?

Couple of things.

I found that the ball flew on me just a little on my backhand and sometimes on my forehand as well. I tend to prefer closed string patterns, and obviously the London has an open pattern.

I also am moving back to wilson because I feel very comfortable with the wilson grip shape.

Basically, a little too much power for my game, and a desire to get back to a Wilson grip shape. Frame is very soft though and is very comfortable. Tons of spin too, but I never really have an issue with a racket not being spin friendly.
 
A correctly rated 4.5 will double bagel a 3.5 everytime no matter what racquet the 3.5 player is using. That's a huge gulf in levels. No racquet is going to make a difference.

Point well taken. I'm not sure what my real rating is. Furthermore I don't know if my friend who was rated 4.5 in 2007 from a Tournament Exclusive rating is still really a 4.5. He doesn't think he is, and neither do some other 4.0s we hit with on a regular basis. I think he is a strong 4.0 or a weak 4.5, but my opinion and 2 bucks will get you a small coffee. ;)

Neither one of us are probably rated accurately at the current time. My rating will become a "C' rating at the end of this year. Should a 3.5 be getting close to a 4.5 losing 6-3, 6-3? Or should the scores be more like 0-0 like you suggested. I think the 0-0 is more accurate.

I had a seven year break from tennis, then came back in 2007 for three months, herniated a disc and had two back surgeries in 2008 including a fusion of L4/L5. I sat out Fall of 2007 until Aug 2009 almost two full years due to the rehab. I been back on the courts for one year now. I appropriately self-rated as a 3.5 when I came back.

The 4.5 guy hadn't played in three years, and probably isn't a 4.5. He's better than me, probably a strong 4.0, whereas most of my friends think I'm a strong 3.5, and likely to get bumped to 4.0 at the end of the year.

Jack,

I hope you like the BLX Pro Open. I haven't added any weight or extended the length to 27.5. I am happy with the stock version right now.
 
Problem is 18g in a open pattern can lead to lots of string breakage.

Not at all- two people I know use MSV hex 1.10. In an open string pattern PDRD a former college player heavy topspin string does great and very good about not moving. And the other 4.5/5.0 player APGT. I am sure u xan give it a go
 
Not at all- two people I know use MSV hex 1.10. In an open string pattern PDRD a former college player heavy topspin string does great and very good about not moving. And the other 4.5/5.0 player APGT. I am sure u xan give it a go

18g poly is a lot more durable than 18g multi (what I use).
 
How much stock do you guys put in the published RA stiffness ? I'm curious because I just tried a Solinco frame (Pro 8) that played a lot softer than it's RA of 67. I really want to try out the Vokl PB 8 315 now, but the 70 RA is making me nervous, although TW describes the frame as being "comfortable"...
 
Not much actually. Modern frames flex differently in different areas and the Babolat RDC machine only measures one area.

There was a thread on here a while back with people argueing that RDC numbers were all but useless these days.

I think useless is too strong of a word. But you should definately take them with a grain of salt.
 
Pog Os

Jack,
Have you considered a POG OS? That's a very forgiving player's frame with tweener tendencies. I just went thru playing a lot with the Rebel95 and N95/BLX95 and keep going back to the POG OS (4 stripe). It's a surprisingly good frame, I was normally against going too big of a head, but with fully poly at 57, it hits really well. It's also the most arm-friendly racquet I've used and my sensitive golfer's elbow went away. It allowed me to go back to full poly, which helps my game.

I would give it a shot, I think you'd be surprised. Its not necessarily the best at everything but it's good enough in everything without a major deficiency. I would say serving is the only thing that took some adjustment.
 
Latest update....

Well my current "tweener" (EXO3 White) passed the first test. I played my 1st league playoff match with it today and won 6-2, 6-3. The frames forgiving nature and power definitely helped keep me in some rallies. I am still getting used to drop shots and lobs, but played very well with the White today. No elbow issues yet either. I feels very comfortable so far and I have it strung up with multi mains and copoly crosses. Haven't received my BLX Pro Open yet.
 
Jack,

I get home Wed night and will be stringing one BLX Pro Open with VS Touch Mains and Solinco Revolution in the crosses and compare to a X-One Biphase Mains / Revolution Cross Setup.
 
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Jack,

I get home Wed night and will be stringing one BLX Pro Open with VS Touch Mains and Solinco Revolution in the crosses and compare to a X-One Biphase Mains / Revolution Cross Setup.

You are basically comparing XOne to natural gut. My guess is that the nat gut will feel more lively, softer and give you more spin.
 
p.s finding a racquet that lends very well to weight adjustment has been such a relief for me because being a recreational player my fitness and strength fluctuate a lot--sometimes I go for months with no practice, due to work/travel or whatever, some periods I play almost every day for months, and other periods it's something in between. With the same racquet, as opposed to switching between several different ones, even when weighted differently at least the feel is the same all the time.

good luck with your tests jack!

Good thought...
 
18g poly is a lot more durable than 18g multi (what I use).

Just switched a 58 yrold female with elbow and wrist problems to MSV hex 18L and she's a huge fan and no problem with pain. She's a very good player but still.
 
Did hit with BLX Pro Opens yet?

I actually did tonite for the first time. I dont know what strings/tension was on the racquets because I picked them up used. I plan on restringing soon with my usual setup of multi mains and copoly crosses, so I can compare apples to apples with my EXO White.

I switched back and forth a few times tonite between the Open and the White and I have to say, at first try they seemed very similar. The White
had slightly more power....that's about all I noticed so far. I only hit with the
BLX Open for about 30 mins total, but it felt solid and no complaints as of yet. I will be taking it for an extended playtest in the upcoming weeks, but for right now, I want to stay "used to" the EXO White while I am in my singles league playoffs.

I also picked up a Youtek Speed Elite and a Youtek Instinct to playtest.
One of these 4 will be my racquet for a good while. I am definitely seeing the benfits of a "tweener", now that it's been a few weeks under my belt. Every time I play, there are a few shots that I know I would have never gotten back with a heavier, lower powered racquet like I used to play with. I might eventually add A LITTLE lead to whatever racquet I stick with, but for now I am playing them all stock.

BTW, I got a good deal on 3 BLX Pro Open's and am only keeping 2, so one of them will be going up in the F/S section tommorow morning. It's a 4 1/2" in good condition for a very good price.
 
An update on my "tweener quest":

I am liking the BLX Pro Open, but I am wondering if my particular play style doesn't really lend itself to these "Pure Drive-like" spin machines? I hit with a more old school style stroke and follow through (over the shoulder) and hit a semi-flat ball that needs to clear the net tightly in order to stay in. I think I might benefit more from something like the Youtek Instinct? 18x19 pattern and a little less power. Nice mix of power and control. Very unique specs come to think of it. Same user friendly 100" frame and light static weight (11oz). It's also a little more flexible than the EXO3 White or the BLX Open. I just think I went from one extreme to the other, going from the XForce Pro to the EXO3 White. Maybe something in the middle might be better for me?

I also remember playing well with a Youtek Radical MP about a year ago, but then I went with the BB11 instead.
The YT Rad MP would be a better choice for me now due to it's lighter weight. I just am not sure if it's got enough "tweener" in it? :)
 
Just my opinion but I think the typical 3.5 to 4.0 player will not benefit from an 18 x 19 string pattern. You'll lose a couple feet of depth on each groundstroke.
 
Just my opinion but I think the typical 3.5 to 4.0 player will not benefit from an 18 x 19 string pattern. You'll lose a couple feet of depth on each groundstroke.

I will see if that's the case.

I don't play a loopy spinny game, so I do well with closed pattern sticks. I used a Dunlop 300 Tour for over a year and did pretty well with it. I hit a semi flat ball and like to hit a low trajectory maybe a foot or less over the net. The 18x19 of the Instinct is on a 100" head and isn't as closed as say a 95" head with a 18x20 pattern. I also like to string low tension and use multi's in the mains, so I don't think there will be a power or depth issue, but I won't know for sure until I try it some.
 
Here are the specs of the racquets I am now considering:

specs.jpg


The POWER number the power % in the dead center of the racquet (From TW's Tools).
The FREQ is the "Frequency", which is a better measure than the stiffness number IMO.

So far, I prefer the BLX Open to the EXO3 White. I just got an Instinct to try out and
I have a London Demo on the way. I played a YT Rad MP briefly, so I have a rough idea
what that's like and I have a new Speed Elite that I haven't "unwrapped" yet.
 
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Jack, you absolutely do not need anything above 335 strung. Seriously, why do you insist on weighty frames? I think you would rediscover your game with something more power-friendly.

Roddick is using 345g racquet. Why do you/we need anything more than that? And yes, you should really try PD. Don't believe that myth about TE and Babolats. I use PDR with PH@49lbs and it is really soft and comfy...

I second Bob's opinion. Babolat has some very nice and fun rackets. Can you imagine the tour's top pros like Nadal and Roddick, Wozniacki are using the same sticks that are also very useable by the public? Aeropro and PD are all quality sticks that are light, fun and useable even by 3.5. Just make sure you string them low tension, eg 50 and you're on your way.
 
another update.....

Hit with a Youtek Instinct last night...

Not sure if I can really evaluate this yet because it was prestrung with Wilson Stamina Syngut 16g, which I absolutely hated. But...I did like the way the racquet felt swinging. Felt a bit heavier than the advertised specs (11 oz. strung). The power level was nice...not as much as the EXO White or BLX Open, but not low powered either...middle of the road. Had a bit more flexible feel that either of those 2 sticks also. The racquet had a bit of a "non-solid" feel to it that I didn't like and it's hard to tell how much of the feel was due to the crappy strings. Bottom line is I liked it enough to restring with my string of choice and try some more.
 
Stamina isn't crappy. It is just an incredibly polarizing string because it is very crisp. I think if you used a multi, I can see how you would hate it. I am the opposite. I loathe multi strings like Maxim Touch. Hate the feel and they break for me in no time.

I did hit with an extreme pro with a multi at 57#s. It was not as stiff as you would expect. So if you stayed multi, it may be worth checking out.
 
Stamina isn't crappy. It is just an incredibly polarizing string because it is very crisp. I think if you used a multi, I can see how you would hate it. I am the opposite. I loathe multi strings like Maxim Touch. Hate the feel and they break for me in no time.

I did hit with an extreme pro with a multi at 57#s. It was not as stiff as you would expect. So if you stayed multi, it may be worth checking out.

I like a soft, thin, springy string. Wison Stamina...especially 16g felt really "dead" and crisp to me and I didn't like it at all. It will be interesting to see how "different" the Instict feels to me with a new 17g multi?

Funny you mention the Extreme. I just checked the specs (of the MP, not the Pro) and the thing screams "untimate tweener"! I always thought it was super stiff like the PD, but it's rated at 66, which totally surprised me. I might have to add that to my T.T.T. (tweeners to try) list. The specs are a little strange because it's got light static weight (10.9oz) AND VERY headlite (8 pts)......BUT......it has a pretty decent. swingweight of 324. I guess the sw comes from the thick (24-25) beam?
 
Jack ,

I am kind of in the same boat as you I like the easy power that comes with a tweener but can't get past the fact that I love the way a players stick feels. I want to recreate that solid feel of a players stick but in a easier to handle light weight package. The Becker London is the closest I have come to thus far. Nice thin beam, plenty of power, not too heavy etc. The nice thing about this stick is that it could be easily customized so that as your game improves you have a stick that is more than capable of matching your game.

MF, what did u ultimately not like about the London? I am like you, where I love the feel of players sticks, but I want something not too difficult to use.
 
Hey Jack;....maybe i missed it already in this thread somewhere,....but have You looked into the Head Radicals???....eg the Microgel,....and Liquidmetal??,...they are NICE sticks !!!:)
 
Update on my "tweener quest"....

Went to the courts last night with a new Youtek Instinct and Becker London and a funny thing happened...I liked the Instinct better! I can't believe there aren't more 3.5-4.0 guys playing with it? It has a really nice smooth feel and a great combo of power and control. Great sweetspot with it's 100" head and great 4 pt HL balance and just enough weight (11 oz). I guess the 18x19 pattern keeps some guys away, but as someone who hits a pretty flat ball, it does't bother me. I need to spend more time with the London and I did like it also, but felt more comfortable with the Instinct. The London has a nice cushy feel which I loved and plenty of power. It also felt very stable for its weight. I think that I can go with either of these as my stick for now. Its just a matter of which.
 
Reading this thread I agree with most of you guys, my case is very similar, used to play allways with "true players" frames, but lately got tendinitis on my forearm, so today a friend lend me his TI-S6 Head frame, very light 8.8 oz. and felt great, was incredibly soft and accurate, big hitting was possible, so incredible!!

So my question will be, what can happen if I buy a couple of this or the Hyper-carbon Wilson's, famous hammer, which buy the way are at US$ 60 levels, or the Prince Triple Threat Scream, and keep them in the bag as an option for those tired days?? Anyone has tried this option or has experience with mentioned very light frames? BTW they seem exteremely popular, will appreciate your ideas and comments. Thanks-
 
The thing I've found about tennis is that if you can hit the ball in the sweetspot more times than not, you don't NEED a racquet bigger than 95sq. in. A semi-skilled player would do fine with a K90. You really only need a larger head if you use more extreme grips and have a very closed racquet face just because the closed racquet face diminishes the effective face of the racquet. Hell, even when I'm playing well I find myself shanking some balls just because of that, way more than flat hitters, and I use a 100sq in racquet. But flat hitters don't need anything over 95 and I would say modern players don't need anything over 105.
 
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