Should I be worried about being DQ'd?

leech

Semi-Pro
All this talk on the "I want to go to Nationals" thread about self-rates and DQs is making me wonder if I'll be vulnerable to getting DQ'd and hurting my team. I'm pretty sure I am at the right level at 3.5 (for reasons I'll explain below), but have managed to win my first 5 USTA matches (most of them by very close margins).

When I signed up for USTA back in August 2011, I had never played organized tennis or knew anyone who had. I'd played a lot of social tennis from college to about 8 years ago, but no one in my circle played USTA or even knew such organized leagues existed. NTRP ratings were foreign to me. But upon reading the NTRP rating descriptions, I optimistically thought I could be a 4.0. So I self-rated at that level.

Then I joined my local tennis ladder once I found out such a thing existed. I quickly realized that I was not anywhere close to a 4.0. I got beat 6-1, 6-2 to the first 3.5 I played. I ended up going 2-4 against 3.5s and 1-1 against 4.0s (the one win I had was vs. an older doubles specialist coming back from a knee injury). I didn't get picked up by any USTA teams last fall.

I spoke to a poker buddy of mine who actually was very involved in the USTA scene, unbeknownst to me prior to last fall. He told me that I should probably play in 3.0 or 3.5 (he is a 5.0). So I successfully appealed my original 4.0 self-rate down to 3.5.

I got picked up in a 3.5 mixed doubles team in January 2012. I played a total of three matches. They were all close, but my partner and I won all three matches (7-5, 6-4; 2-6, 6-2, 1-0; 7-5, 2-6, 1-0, all with different partners). I also joined a 3.5 men's team this month. I played two singles matches. I won a very close first match 7-5, 6-6 (timed out in tie-break) and won the second match a little more easily (6-0, 7-5).

I hope to win the rest of my matches, but wonder if there's a chance I'll be DQ'd. All of the matches were competitive, and I was down at some point in just about every match. Even in my last singles match, I was down 3-5 in the second set. So in reality, I feel I belong in 3.5, but I don't know how the computer factors in the competitiveness of matches. Should I be worried about being DQ'd? I'd hate to subject my team to that, but I don't want to stop trying to win matches.
 

goober

Legend
your mixed matches won't count for your rating if you are playing regular league matches. Your singles wins may or may not be strikes depending on the exact rating of your opponents. If they are weak opponents, it probably won't be a strike. If they are at the upper end of 3.5 , it could be a strike.

Personally, I would say just play your game and not worry about it.

If you are really worried go play some doubles match with the weakest partner on your mens team. That way you will probably lose the match without actually having to throw it :twisted:
 

leech

Semi-Pro
your mixed matches won't count for your rating if you are playing regular league matches. Your singles wins may or may not be strikes depending on the exact rating of your opponents. If they are weak opponents, it probably won't be a strike. If they are at the upper end of 3.5 , it could be a strike.

Personally, I would say just play your game and not worry about it.

If you are really worried go play some doubles match with the weakest partner on your mens team. That way you will probably lose the match without actually having to throw it :twisted:
OK, if my mixed league results don't count, then I'm probably prematurely worried about DQ. I may not have a winning record at the end of the season.

I'll be out of town the week of the playoffs, and don't mind being bumped up next season. The only thing I'm worried about is the potential impact to the team if I get DQ'd.
 
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josofo

Semi-Pro
no

you wont get dq. they dont dq much people, as you can see by former and current d1 player on 4.0 teams.
 

floridatennisdude

Hall of Fame
All this talk on the "I want to go to Nationals" thread about self-rates and DQs is making me wonder if I'll be vulnerable to getting DQ'd and hurting my team. I'm pretty sure I am at the right level at 3.5 (for reasons I'll explain below), but have managed to win my first 5 USTA matches (most of them by very close margins).

When I signed up for USTA back in August 2011, I had never played organized tennis or knew anyone who had. I'd played a lot of social tennis from college to about 8 years ago, but no one in my circle played USTA or even knew such organized leagues existed. NTRP ratings were foreign to me. But upon reading the NTRP rating descriptions, I optimistically thought I could be a 4.0. So I self-rated at that level.

Then I joined my local tennis ladder once I found out such a thing existed. I quickly realized that I was not anywhere close to a 4.0. I got beat 6-1, 6-2 to the first 3.5 I played. I ended up going 2-4 against 3.5s and 1-1 against 4.0s (the one win I had was vs. an older doubles specialist coming back from a knee injury). I didn't get picked up by any USTA teams last fall.

I spoke to a poker buddy of mine who actually was very involved in the USTA scene, unbeknownst to me prior to last fall. He told me that I should probably play in 3.0 or 3.5 (he is a 5.0). So I successfully appealed my original 4.0 self-rate down to 3.5.

I got picked up in a 3.5 mixed doubles team in January 2012. I played a total of three matches. They were all close, but my partner and I won all three matches (7-5, 6-4; 2-6, 6-2, 1-0; 7-5, 2-6, 1-0, all with different partners). I also joined a 3.5 men's team this month. I played two singles matches. I won a very close first match 7-5, 6-6 (timed out in tie-break) and won the second match a little more easily (6-0, 7-5).

I hope to win the rest of my matches, but wonder if there's a chance I'll be DQ'd. All of the matches were competitive, and I was down at some point in just about every match. Even in my last singles match, I was down 3-5 in the second set. So in reality, I feel I belong in 3.5, but I don't know how the computer factors in the competitiveness of matches. Should I be worried about being DQ'd? I'd hate to subject my team to that, but I don't want to stop trying to win matches.
Self rating is a finicky beast. The USTA advises that if you are unsure which level you are at, to rate at the higher level. It sounds like you did your due diligenceby playing the ladder and going 3-5 against the variety of 3.5 and 4.0. If I had the same results, I probably would have chosen 3.5 as well.

But, the DQ dilemma is a fact of the game. A guy I know got DQd after going 3-1 in his first 4 matches. They did enforce the reversals of his wins and his team went from 3-1 and second place overall to 1-3 and next to last place. Funny thing is that the guy that beat him is also self rated and has only played doubles since. He hasn't been DQd, but there are still 4 weeks left.

I wouldn't necessarily try to let off at this point if I were you. I would have a conversation with the captain and explain that you should probably only play in matches where the team will most likely win 4-1 or 5-0. That way, if you do get DQd, the team doesn't get punished as badly.
 

leech

Semi-Pro
I wouldn't necessarily try to let off at this point if I were you. I would have a conversation with the captain and explain that you should probably only play in matches where the team will most likely win 4-1 or 5-0. That way, if you do get DQd, the team doesn't get punished as badly.
I'll try to bring this up at tonight's practice. The captain is having all those interested in playing singles play each other in a round-robin. He may opt to play me in doubles if he fears that I'll be disqualified (I may be the weakest doubles player on the team, incidentally). But I'll let him decide how to proceed.
 

OrangePower

Legend
I'll try to bring this up at tonight's practice. The captain is having all those interested in playing singles play each other in a round-robin. He may opt to play me in doubles if he fears that I'll be disqualified (I may be the weakest doubles player on the team, incidentally). But I'll let him decide how to proceed.
Good that you're considerate towards your team and captain, but personally I think that you are worried over nothing.

Yes, there are cases where self rated players are DQ'd, but they are few and far between. Winning in itself will not get you DQ'd - you have to dominate in 3 or more matches, and by dominate I mean either absolutely crush a middle-of-the level player, or else a convincing win over a top-of-level player. Out of the 2 matches you've played, I don't see one of them generating a strike under any condition, and the 6-0, 7-5 win could only generate a strike if the guy is upper-top of level. Of course there is no way for you to see your opponent's exact rating, but you can get a feel for where he is based on his past results. Unless he is a dominant 3.5, that's not a strike.

To give you an example, a couple of years ago I had a self-rated player on my team who went 12-1; the loss was in his second match and I don't think he lost a set over the last 8 or so matches. But all the sets were competitive, and although he rightly got bumped up at the end of the year, there was no DQ. He was strong for level but not outrageously so.
 

dizzlmcwizzl

Hall of Fame
Generally, I dont think you have anything to worry about. I have found that the only people to get DQ'd are well out of level.

Your matches have been close and nothing you have said suggests that you have been dominant. I would not worry about it and I suspect your captain wont be worried either.
 

leech

Semi-Pro
Good that you're considerate towards your team and captain, but personally I think that you are worried over nothing.

Yes, there are cases where self rated players are DQ'd, but they are few and far between. Winning in itself will not get you DQ'd - you have to dominate in 3 or more matches, and by dominate I mean either absolutely crush a middle-of-the level player, or else a convincing win over a top-of-level player. Out of the 2 matches you've played, I don't see one of them generating a strike under any condition, and the 6-0, 7-5 win could only generate a strike if the guy is upper-top of level. Of course there is no way for you to see your opponent's exact rating, but you can get a feel for where he is based on his past results. Unless he is a dominant 3.5, that's not a strike.

To give you an example, a couple of years ago I had a self-rated player on my team who went 12-1; the loss was in his second match and I don't think he lost a set over the last 8 or so matches. But all the sets were competitive, and although he rightly got bumped up at the end of the year, there was no DQ. He was strong for level but not outrageously so.
Great to hear; thanks for sharing your experience. The guy I barely beat should be at the upper end of the 3.5 range (he's also playing 4.0 this year), but the second opponent probably is middle-of the pack due to his inconsistency. I won't worry about being DQ'd anymore.
 

J_R_B

Hall of Fame
Great to hear; thanks for sharing your experience. The guy I barely beat should be at the upper end of the 3.5 range (he's also playing 4.0 this year), but the second opponent probably is middle-of the pack due to his inconsistency. I won't worry about being DQ'd anymore.
Yeah, you never know what the computer will do, but your scores definitely do not jump out as being anything to worry about.
 

gmatheis

Hall of Fame
you're fine. You really have to beat high rated 3.5's by a large margin to get a strike. Now if you play 4.0 and win matches then you might have to worry.
 
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