should I change my forehand stroke?

P

panache5

Rookie
I'm 4.5 SnV but I have a weaker ground game. While talking to people and instructors, my motion for my forehand is just a simple shoulder turn and takeback (no loop at all) it's just a takeback, unlike my backhand where I do have a looping motion, which produces alot of my power. I tried doing some of that looping motion on my forehand but the timing is off, it feels weird. Some people say I need to looping motion on my forehand side to push myself to the 5.0 level. But I also seen players like james blake who just have a simple takeback (esp. on his backhand side). I also feel that my 1hbh is more powerfull and consistent during baseline rallies.

Change or no? Or just keep my motion and work on it.
 
Loop is needed more for timing than for more power.
Try turning shoulders earlier, more fully, and move into the ball for more power.
A straight takeback has enough power if you hit with moderate topspin. If you want to go with extreme topspin, it might not give you the needed extra rackethead speed.
Rackethead speed doesn NOT make you a better player at your level. What makes you a better player is to know WHERE &WHEN to hit the ball, and be able to do it.
Not HOW TO HIT THE BALL.
 
LeeD said:
Loop is needed more for timing than for more power.
Try turning shoulders earlier, more fully, and move into the ball for more power.
A straight takeback has enough power if you hit with moderate topspin. If you want to go with extreme topspin, it might not give you the needed extra rackethead speed.
Rackethead speed doesn NOT make you a better player at your level. What makes you a better player is to know WHERE &WHEN to hit the ball, and be able to do it.
Not HOW TO HIT THE BALL.
Click to expand...

I'm sure you seen the way bradly klahn hits the ball. Shoulder turn,gets low and explodes into the ball w/o that loop motion. Should this be something I can kinda copy but mold it into my own style? Or is that just a bit to extreme.
 
Remember, you hit rally balls most of the time, and one in 3, you go for your shot. So you already have the rally ball, just explode into the shot when you need a winner and you have time to set up.
 
I agree that you're probably in good shape if you can already get you racquet into the set position in a hurry. If you don't have a loop in your windup now, it probably won't help you too much and could even degrade the efficiency of your setup. Hard to know without video, but I'm not much on those loopy windups.

If you need more gas on your forehand, work on getting the swing going earlier. If you've already got a quick setup, you want to tap your legs and core for drive and rotation. Learn to start unwinding through contact more completely and you'll have more zip in your swing coming from your stronger muscle groups. This may include the feeling of literally pushing off of your back foot for most routine forehands - if you don't do that now, there may be more energy waiting in your legs for that stroke.
 
panache5 said:
I'm 4.5 SnV but I have a weaker ground game. While talking to people and instructors, my motion for my forehand is just a simple shoulder turn and takeback (no loop at all) it's just a takeback, unlike my backhand where I do have a looping motion, which produces alot of my power. I tried doing some of that looping motion on my forehand but the timing is off, it feels weird. Some people say I need to looping motion on my forehand side to push myself to the 5.0 level. But I also seen players like james blake who just have a simple takeback (esp. on his backhand side). I also feel that my 1hbh is more powerfull and consistent during baseline rallies.

Change or no? Or just keep my motion and work on it.
Click to expand...

I would consider learning the open stance, windshield wiper forehand. It's a very specific skill that will take a few months of dedicated practice before you will be able to use it in match play. But, it's such a great shot, it's worth the sacrifice. I'm doing it now after 40 years of tennis. It's working very well for me. There's a great series of video lessons on the windshield wiper forehand here: www.fuzzyyellowballs.com. Look for tennis lessons at the top. There's also a "modern forehand" thread in this section with links to additional lessons.
 
Last edited:
By straight take back, do you mean you're not even closing your racket face?

By this I mean, most pros keep the face that will eventually hit the ball facing away from them when executing the take back. This means your wrist and palm is clearly facing away from your body as you do the unit turn.

Are you doing this?

If so, then your takeback should naturally loop.

I think delpotro has an open faced "straight" take-back which seems unnatural to my eyes.
 
 
Last edited:
without the loop it's almost impossible to have a square face at impact... I am working with a couple of guys right now trying to get their FHs corrected.

all these people who have played for dozens of years with flipper FHs.

I guess OP maybe one of them.
 
freelans said:
Some examples...s

Open faced "straight" take back - kinda weird...

Del Potro - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGodD1fMfHY
Mcenroe (WTF forehand) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19gmJilFKlI



Closed faced "looping" take back - natural

Monfils - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkUSTi4U7Io&feature=channel
Joko - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8AJYfkJ4hc&feature=related
Fed - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmhvKafCYsk&feature=related
Agassi(somewhat open) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXWks8yvRJQ&feature=channel



Open Faced looping - Really weird...

Gasquet - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wk_eCLU_qnU&feature=channel
Click to expand...

MCENROE forehand is exactly like mines but I use a SW. I use the kblade 93 so if you played with this racket you know that it is 100% control and 0% power, you gotta generate your own.

I have no problem with a running forehand, I angle it wide off the court or use their pace for a winner. But if im rallying and standing still I don't get much power, even though I do move into the ball.

My backhand has a loop, and i have to say i hit alot more winners with my backhand then forehand.
 
A loop can give you more power, but you can get more without it. My first suggestion would be to just have more flexibility in your arm and get more whip from your elbow and wrist. Let your racket lag more and have the head come forward later. You likely will lose some consistency, as expected when you gain power. There is always a trade-off. Still, it is a simple stroke and should be pretty consistent. Try it and see if you can get the timing of it and see if you like it.
 
panache5 said:
MCENROE forehand is exactly like mines but I use a SW. I use the kblade 93 so if you played with this racket you know that it is 100% control and 0% power, you gotta generate your own.

I have no problem with a running forehand, I angle it wide off the court or use their pace for a winner. But if im rallying and standing still I don't get much power, even though I do move into the ball.

My backhand has a loop, and i have to say i hit alot more winners with my backhand then forehand.
Click to expand...


I think it's definitely worth a try to change it! Part of the fun of tennis lies in constantly tweaking here and tinkering there and finding out what works for you.

Blakes forehand takeback is definitely simple and beautiful, nothing like McEnroes. Sometimes I wonder how McEnroe ever made it to the pros with that atrocious forehand, but then again I'm sure he has other magnificent talents to compensate for it :)
 
I'd say try to incorporate more of a loop, but be warned it will take awhile to learn. Be persistant!
 
You can have a forehand like an ATP player. With sub-motions that can be observed in ATP player's videos.

Or you can have a DIY forehand. With completely unknown sub-motions.

Is it a bent or straight elbow forehand?
 
Last edited:
Chas Tennis said:
You can have a forehand like an ATP player. With sub-motions that can be observed in ATP player's videos.

Or you can have a DIY forehand. With completely unknown sub-motions.

Is it a bent or straight elbow forehand?
Click to expand...
At contact? Would straight be more ideal in situations with time and positioning because presumably that would maximize extension?
 
It is not as simple as that. In most cases maximizing the radius out would also increase the moment of inertia. Moment of Inertia is 'resistance to rotation' around a specific axis. That means that your arm and racket would resist rotation for a given force and slow down the acceleration.

The pros have worked through the trade offs and do's and don't's with what they are doing and we can see it in videos. I would say that they don't put their upper arm down close to their bodies for forehands or 1HBHs so that the radius out is not minimized. Also, the ideal camera view would be from a camera above the player looking down. Many high camera views will give you the idea of the forearm to racket shaft angle at impact, especially for Semi-Western and Western Grips. For Semi-Western and Western Grips the racket shaft is at an angle to the forearm, that does not maximize radius out. The straight elbow forehand does more radius out for given upper arm down angle. The Semi Western Grip allows simplified adjustment of closed racket face for impact - try it and see how simple and direct adjusting the closed racket face tilt is. Look at videos of ATP players and see what you see. Pick a model forehand player and see what they do. Observe whatever the ATP players do.

The 1HBH also does not tilt the upper arm down too much. Thread - One Hand Backhand - Waht Force to Start Forward Swing? See Mojo28 vs Gasquet 1HBH comparison post.


If you want to start viewing high speed videos of forehands read this recent post.
C

Post in thread 'How to make rallying more effective for both when hitting with lover level player? Video included'

Your side-to-side (azimuthal) shot variation might be more controlled if you used Djokovic's rotations as he does.

Djokovic's forehand is a 2 phase stroke.
Rotations
1) Timing of the uppermost body turn (seen by the line between his 2 shoulders.)
2) Timing of his shoulder joint use. (seen by how the upper arm first starts at the shoulder joint.)

To single frame on Youtube, stop video, go full screen, use the period & comma keys. Does not work on phone Youtube.

Watch for #1 and #2 and how he times them.

First his uppermost body turn #1 begins and later his...
  • Like

Safety - These strokes involve twisting and untwisting the spine and that may be too stressful for many players.
 
Last edited:
Chas Tennis said:
It is not as simple as that. In most cases maximizing the radius out would also increase the moment of inertia. Moment of Inertia is 'resistance to rotation' around a specific axis. That means that your arm and racket would resist rotation for a given force and slow down the acceleration.

The pros have worked through the trade offs and do's and don't's with what they are doing and we can see it in videos. I would say that they don't put their upper arm down close to their bodies for forehands or 1HBHs so that the radius out is not minimized. Also, the ideal camera view would be from a camera above the player looking down. Many high camera views will give you the idea of the forearm to racket shaft angle at impact, especially for Semi-Western and Western Grips. For Semi-Western and Western Grips the racket shaft is at an angle to the forearm, that does not maximize radius out. The straight elbow forehand does more radius out for given upper arm down angle. The Semi Western Grip allows simplified adjustment of closed racket face for impact - try it and see how simple and direct adjusting the closed racket face tilt is. Look at videos of ATP players and see what you see. Pick a model forehand player and see what they do. Observe whatever the ATP players do.

The 1HBH also does not tilt the upper arm down too much. Thread - One Hand Backhand - Waht Force to Start Forward Swing? See Mojo28 vs Gasquet 1HBH comparison post.


If you want to start viewing high speed videos of forehands read this recent post.
C

Post in thread 'How to make rallying more effective for both when hitting with lover level player? Video included'

Your side-to-side (azimuthal) shot variation might be more controlled if you used Djokovic's rotations as he does.

Djokovic's forehand is a 2 phase stroke.
Rotations
1) Timing of the uppermost body turn (seen by the line between his 2 shoulders.)
2) Timing of his shoulder joint use. (seen by how the upper arm first starts at the shoulder joint.)

To single frame on Youtube, stop video, go full screen, use the period & comma keys. Does not work on phone Youtube.

Watch for #1 and #2 and how he times them.

First his uppermost body turn #1 begins and later his...
  • Like

Safety - These strokes involve twisting and untwisting the spine and that may be too stressful for many players.
Click to expand...
so am I right in interpreting all this information as "almost but not quite straight is optimal", to preserve some laxness for the lag and optimal acceleration through inertia/resistance?
 
antony said:
so am I right in interpreting all this information as "almost but not quite straight is optimal", to preserve some laxness for the lag and optimal acceleration through inertia/resistance?
Click to expand...
They are useful categories, not super precise. Bent or straight elbow are both top performance. Probably not studied yet.?

Look at Alcaraz, Nadal and Federer as ATP examples of straight elbow forehand players.

Look at Djokovic and many others as ATP examples of bent elbow forehand players.

Look at Love Tennis Youtube Forehand Compilation & other compilations and observe the ATP percentages. Please list names and post.

Pick your model forehand to be similar to your bent or straight usage. Or change your forehand.

The grip follows to make the impact most effective and comfortable.

With high speed videos, Youtubes should be considered as nearly as easy to use as your memory - but much more reliable.

Note- there may be more flat hitting going on now, I do not know because I don't observe statistics because sub-motions are so poorly described already and more interesting. Solderling was an early flat hitters. Sinner?? others. All observations should be of stroke stats, but Youtubes are missing information and not measurements with cooperating ATP or college players.

WTA players have very strong forehand techniques.

Look at 10 ATP forehand Youtubes, high speed videos.
1) bent elbow
2) straight elbow

See what percents you observe.

I call this approach Quick Stats - it gets a lot of useful answers in a very short time.

Search ATP forehands pictures or use Google Images to search ATP forehand. Please post your results.

Note - when? when the arm is going toward the ball. Never after impact.
 
Last edited:
Yes it's worth it and will feel weird initially. Rather than forcing yourself to consciously do a loop just execute a unit turn with your frame facing forward at 45 degrees.
 
Yes. I think everyone should be willing to re-program their tennis neural pathways. The alternative is to be stuck in your old ways for three decades and never significantly advance. Even the pros adjust their technique.

It will always feel weird at first. Tiger Woods himself could suggest an adjustment to your golf swing and it’ll feel weird the first 30 times you do it. The weird feeling is you reprogramming your neurons. Tennis Hacker on YT as a righty taught himself to play 4.5 tennis left handed.

The brain and body are very plastic. If you wear glasses that flip your vision upside-down the brain will re-flip your vision right-side-up within three days. Don’t get stuck in your ways and you can achieve any technique you desire.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

G
I fixed my forehand!!!
Replies
4
Views
2K
Slazenger
Slazenger
E
backhand backswing question:
Replies
8
Views
2K
joesixtoe
J
J
Inverted Forehand- Anything with Backhand?
Replies
2
Views
406
Dragy
Dragy
JackB1
Two Hand Backhand Technique?
Replies
12
Views
2K
JackB1
JackB1
dlam
forehand preparation- Loop or SBST?
Replies
6
Views
2K
dlam
dlam
Back
Top