I hit very heavy topspin but sometimes when i get outta groove i resort to moonballing. All my topspin makes it bounce near the baseline and is very tough to get an effective return off of it. I know it pisses alot of players off but its a very effective and safe shot for me. Should i not do this? I mean i want to do whatever i can to win and when i get outta sync moonballing w/ heavy top is my only safe shot that i won't get punished for everytime. Suggestions?
Should I not moonball?
- Thread starter BirdWalkR
- Start date
I assume that you will have no problem until you meet great drive volleyers who also have a great timing of hitting (there are not so many).
if it's your ultimate weapon to use, use it for the games whenever u have to get away from deep cornered shots to buy some time.
If you think that it pisses people off, then, just don't use it during regular practice
if it's your ultimate weapon to use, use it for the games whenever u have to get away from deep cornered shots to buy some time.
If you think that it pisses people off, then, just don't use it during regular practice
Fuji
Legend
People hate junk ballers and moon ballers, period.
Does it win at lower - to intermediate levels? Yes.
Will it get punished at higher intermediate levels? Yes.
It just depends what you want out of tennis! If you're happy competing at mid level tennis and doing fairly well, then of course do it! Just know that it will be annihilated by stronger players.
-Fuji
Does it win at lower - to intermediate levels? Yes.
Will it get punished at higher intermediate levels? Yes.
It just depends what you want out of tennis! If you're happy competing at mid level tennis and doing fairly well, then of course do it! Just know that it will be annihilated by stronger players.
-Fuji
Avles
Hall of Fame
D
Deleted member 120290
Guest
If you are sick and tired of winning, then stop moonballing. If you like winning and moonballing is a key ingredient, then keep doing it.
D
Deleted member 120290
Guest
Does it win at lower - to intermediate levels? Yes.
...Just know that it will be annihilated by stronger players.
-Fuji
As Nadal has proven, it works up to 7.0 level.
BobFL
Hall of Fame
Yes but ONLY ONE person on this planet can do it.
D
Deleted member 120290
Guest
D
Deleted member 120290
Guest
Well, right now there is only 1 person in the whole world who is capable of doing that and he is beating everyone, every style.
pyrokid
Hall of Fame
Djokovic begs to differ.
D
Deleted member 120290
Guest
Bird, my ex-coach (I am currently without a coach like Ana Ivanovic :shock is a lefty who moonballs the heck out of people. He hits about 6-8 feet above the net with WICKED spin that kicks up and away from the righty's BH. He's about a 5.0-5.5 but in actual matches he beats a LOT of people whom you would swear would smoke him. The guy never misses with his FH and wears you down over a 2 out of 3 set match. At levels below 5.0 I believe there are very few people who can handle deep, consistent, heavy spin moonballs that land near the baseline.
is a lefty who moonballs the heck out of people. He hits about 6-8 feet above the net with WICKED spin that kicks up and away from the righty's BH. He's about a 5.0-5.5 but in actual matches he beats a LOT of people whom you would swear would smoke him. The guy never misses with his FH and wears you down over a 2 out of 3 set match. At levels below 5.0 I believe there are very few people who can handle deep, consistent, heavy spin moonballs that land near the baseline.
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Deleted member 120290
Guest
Djoko is whom I'm talking about.
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Deleted member 120290
Guest
Did Agassi die? It's a good thing he got inducted to HOF just before his death. :smile:
dozu
Banned
RIGHT ON !!
jmverdugo
Hall of Fame
People hate junk ballers and moon ballers, period.
Does it win at lower - to intermediate levels? Yes.
Will it get punished at higher intermediate levels? Yes.
It just depends what you want out of tennis! If you're happy competing at mid level tennis and doing fairly well, then of course do it! Just know that it will be annihilated by stronger players.
-Fuji
What do you call intermediate levels? at 4.0 - 4.5 moonballs are very efective, then moonballs get heavier and heavier as the level increase, in fact when you go to really high levels they are still moonballing, is just that with so much head speed the balls doesnt get so high but they are trying to hit up and deep, of course I am talking in rally situations, they are not going to go for a winner with a moonball.
To the OP, I think that if you are able to hit high deep bouncing balls constantly and with precision just go for it, very few people can hit winners from those unless you do not commit to it or mishit and the ball lands short and stay high, then you most likely will lose control of the point.
Please do not take it personal - in general - only loosers hate moonballers and pushers and dice & slicers, etc - good players acknowledge that those are ways of playing tennis and deal with it.
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Fuji
Legend
I don't find Nadal a moonballer.
I think a moonballer is someone who hits 10-20 feet above the net, basically attacking with lobs.
Rafa just hits really hard topspin shots.
BUT, I'm not looking to start an argument on this. There are plenty of threads already on this exact subject LOL!
-Fuji
WildVolley
Legend
Don't worry, you're right. Nadal is definitely not a moonballer, but that doesn't mean he'll never hit one. No professional player who regularly hits groundstrokes in the 75-100mph range is a moonballer. Watch some women's tennis from the late 1980s to see real moonballing.
The moonball is a good shot to have. I find it especially effective when playing doubles either as a defensive shot or even an approach against less aggressive players. If you can force someone back by the rear fence, they'll often throw up a weak lob in response.
tlm
G.O.A.T.
Exactly right rafa hits a heavy looping topspin shot, not a moonball. But the old school traditionalists can't stand to see their more conventional style players get their butts whooped with this style so they accuse him of moon balling.
Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
If it wins, do it!
FedExpress 333
Professional
NO dont do it!!!!!!!!!!! You will be flamed out of the TT forums.
Fuji
Legend
Sorry! I must have just missed your post!
I define general "High Level" tennis at 5.0. Intermediate is 4.0-4.5. Just to sort that out.
At 3.5 I found lots of moonballing. I find it's a really solid and popular tactic. At 4.0 it's still prevalent, but players start to develop a lot more solid topspin ground strokes, that are starting to fall out of moonball height. At 4.5, around here most players have strong topspin shots that have 4-6 feet of clearance, with very solid strokes.
My definition of moonball is at least 10-20 feet over the net. I RARELY see high intermediate players hitting a moonball as their rally shot, unlike in 3.0 and 3.5 where the moonball is their rally shot.
I believe we're arguing the same point, but still that's just my opinion!
Also, the largest difference is that at intermediate, people start to begin to do solid overheads from the baseline, and they are getting more proficient at taking the ball on the rise, which really nullifies a lot of moonballs.
-Fuji
Timbo's hopeless slice
Hall of Fame
Depends what you mean by moonball, really.
Anyone who thinks Rafa moonballs is probably either an idiot or plays 3.5 doubles...
Anyone who thinks Rafa moonballs is probably either an idiot or plays 3.5 doubles...
ProgressoR
Hall of Fame
lets not confuse rafa's shots with rec players moonballing
i havent read the replies
my answer yes go moonball
often when out of rhythm it lets still still swing away and not "guide" the ball
that will often get me back in the groove
spaceman_spiff
Hall of Fame
The problem with relying so heavily on one shot is that you have no back-up plan when that shot doesn't work. If you face someone who isn't phased by the moonball, then you're up a creek.
For example, if you and I were playing and you started moonballing me, I'd just start coming to the net, using my high volley as something of a second approach shot (groundstroke, high mid-court volley, then second volley). I'd keep doing that until you proved to me that you can hit some sort of passing shot or at least something other than a moonball.
For example, if you and I were playing and you started moonballing me, I'd just start coming to the net, using my high volley as something of a second approach shot (groundstroke, high mid-court volley, then second volley). I'd keep doing that until you proved to me that you can hit some sort of passing shot or at least something other than a moonball.
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pyrokid
Hall of Fame
Do you REALLY want to do whatever you can to win? If so - continue to moonball. If not - try to work on an offensive gameplan. Are you on a team or in a league?
Here is the deal (and this holds true for the slicers) - moonballing is an effective defensive strategy. It relies on your opponent having trouble with shots that they CAN get too. They just can't do much with them.
So you get lots of balls to return - and more often then not they make mistakes and you win points. So you do win often with this strategy.
Here is the problem with using a defensive strategy. Good shotmakers can handle moonballs. And you aren't putting any pressure on their movement skills. So better players will hit lots of EFFECTIVE balls back - and put a ton of emphasis on your defensive skills. If you aren't Rafa this is going to be a problem.
For most rec players though - this NEVER comes up. Even good 3.5's will be abused by good moonballers. 4.0 and even 4.5 might go down too - depending on your defensive skills.
That being said most people DO NOT want to win at all costs. You might beat your opponent by calling him out for having an ugly girlfriend but that's not going to keep any friendship alive. It's the same with moonballing. You might win - heck if you are good at it you will probably win. But the dude might hate you. Obviously if its for your HS team or a league you might not care. But many of us do..
As a casual rec player I think you do need to think about making your game fun for your opponents. Guys who play offensive tennis - seeking to move your opponent around and hit winners into the open court... those are the guys that people like to play with. Why not play that style?
Here is the deal (and this holds true for the slicers) - moonballing is an effective defensive strategy. It relies on your opponent having trouble with shots that they CAN get too. They just can't do much with them.
So you get lots of balls to return - and more often then not they make mistakes and you win points. So you do win often with this strategy.
Here is the problem with using a defensive strategy. Good shotmakers can handle moonballs. And you aren't putting any pressure on their movement skills. So better players will hit lots of EFFECTIVE balls back - and put a ton of emphasis on your defensive skills. If you aren't Rafa this is going to be a problem.
For most rec players though - this NEVER comes up. Even good 3.5's will be abused by good moonballers. 4.0 and even 4.5 might go down too - depending on your defensive skills.
That being said most people DO NOT want to win at all costs. You might beat your opponent by calling him out for having an ugly girlfriend but that's not going to keep any friendship alive. It's the same with moonballing. You might win - heck if you are good at it you will probably win. But the dude might hate you. Obviously if its for your HS team or a league you might not care. But many of us do..
As a casual rec player I think you do need to think about making your game fun for your opponents. Guys who play offensive tennis - seeking to move your opponent around and hit winners into the open court... those are the guys that people like to play with. Why not play that style?
dozu
Banned
you guys are missing the point.
the bottom line is spin/net clearance/trajectory/safety/depth control.
so in order to achieve a similar trajectory/depth, different level players do different things... 3.5 guys hit 'moon balls', deep, high, not much speed/spin, 7.0 guys hit Rafa balls, deep, high, mega speed/spin.
But the approach is the same... the goal is not to hit through the opponent with pace... rather, it's to grind down the opponent by forcing him to handle the high stuff, and let him cough up short balls due to technical flaws and fatigue.
that's what I meant by Rafa being the ultimate moonballer.... at the ultimate level, the ball just has the spin, and the 'tight' fly path that the amateur moon balls don't have.
the bottom line is spin/net clearance/trajectory/safety/depth control.
so in order to achieve a similar trajectory/depth, different level players do different things... 3.5 guys hit 'moon balls', deep, high, not much speed/spin, 7.0 guys hit Rafa balls, deep, high, mega speed/spin.
But the approach is the same... the goal is not to hit through the opponent with pace... rather, it's to grind down the opponent by forcing him to handle the high stuff, and let him cough up short balls due to technical flaws and fatigue.
that's what I meant by Rafa being the ultimate moonballer.... at the ultimate level, the ball just has the spin, and the 'tight' fly path that the amateur moon balls don't have.
TennisCoachFLA
Banned
I think we all get all that but its just not the same. Its a stretch of the concept to use moonballer and Rafa in the same sentence. Defensive player sure, ultimate moonballer, thats stretching it a bit.
The answer is yes and no. If you are playing with a buddy just for fun and you see the guy doesnt like that kind of ball, why would you do it and spoil the fun? On the other hand, if you're playing a guy in a league and you see the guy has trouble with that kind of ball and you really want to be the number 1 in the league, why woudn't you do that? Get the point?
Larrysümmers
Hall of Fame
Heck moonball away. one of my best shots is just throwing the ball up high and with a lot of TS, they land close to the line, and bounces either over the fence or close to it. You have to take it right on the bounce(and that either causes errors or weak returns).
Larrysümmers
Hall of Fame
i agreee 100% on this.
Tarrantennis
New User
If its a variation and works tactically then its fine, of course.
Power Player
Bionic Poster
I never do it to friends, but I hit with a lot of topspin and do it in matches when needed. Especially against pushers. That is when it brings me the most joy.
Photoshop
Professional
what if you were playing a friend in a tournament final? would you moonball if he absolutely hates it and has trouble hitting it back? :twisted:
anyway I agree with most here. anything goes in a match - moonball, dropshot, forehand slice, squash shot, etc. but not when playing with friends for fun, don't be a party pooper.
Yoda mode on:
Moonball . . . quick, easy it is. But start down the moonball path and forever it will dominate your denstiny. Consume you it will, and prevent you from ever improving.
Yoda mode off.
D
Deleted member 120290
Guest
It seems like the ones who are vehemently against moonballing are those who are most victimized by them.
No one is telling OP to be a d**k and moonball when rallying/practicing with a buddy. But in a competitive match esp. in certain strategic situations it would be foolish not to moonball if it is working for OP. Fed used to HATE drop shots but no one is blaming him for using it to death on his way to winning 2009 FO.
No one is telling OP to be a d**k and moonball when rallying/practicing with a buddy. But in a competitive match esp. in certain strategic situations it would be foolish not to moonball if it is working for OP. Fed used to HATE drop shots but no one is blaming him for using it to death on his way to winning 2009 FO.
mikeler
Moderator
BobFL
Hall of Fame
You need to play mikeler. He would completely and fully dismantle you...
