Should Naomi Osaka pull a Marshawn Lynch at press conferences?

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Bartelby said:
And what proposals were they communicating to her in these phone calls?
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Well, we will never know because she didn't even deign to negotiate with them. Fact of the matter is that she thought she would get away with fines and never anticipated that they would threaten to default her. That's on her and her team, not on them.
 
Bartelby said:
Her withdrawal from a tournament she was unlikely to win was met with a lot of sympathy for her situation. If she had stayed, the establishment would have been outraged.
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Oh she withdrew already? Guess that's the only way to not look totally dumb in this situation. But still, that's unsustainable, she can't keep doing this

Personally i think she should have stayed and forced them to dump her out just for the drama
 
Keizer said:
She (or her PR team more likely) played their cards all wrong. She publicly trashed the press, insinuated that they were a blight on the mental health of the entire tour by their very nature (a claim that looked hollow when numerous players denied it), and then pre-emptively said she would swallow any fine and donate it to a charity. She basically dared the slams to fine her and refused to talk with RG when they tried reaching out to her directly. Note there was nothing about her own depression, but only a vague allusion to "mental health" in the original statements. So the Slams did what any negotiator would do when they felt they were being taken for a ride and decided to up the ante with the threat of disqualification. Easy to look at this process in hindsight and accuse them of being heartless, but that original statement was all about the press and had nothing about her own specific situation, which was clearly the issue all along.
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Exactly this.

I think without generalizing too much we are seeing pure Gen Z behaviour here. Someone who has lived in a tennis + Insta/Twitter bubble acting out in the only way she knows. She has not learnt that in the real world, you first communicate to decision makers and record their (presumably unacceptable) decision before going to the press. I don't know if she has an agent (and how could she not have) but it is their responsibility as well to persuade her that this is the right way to go and not tweeting the news on the Friday before the main draw gets underway.

It's a paradox. In terms of her tennis achievements, Osaka is simply in another league where us lesser mortals can never get to in several lifetimes put together. But as a person, she clearly has a long way to go to understanding power and negotiating with it. Remember how the Williams sisters went about bargaining for equal pay. They just wrote a respectful open letter asking for it. No threats of boycotts, nothing. They didn't need to, because it was too embarrassing for the slams to deny such a request when it was made so courteously. Osaka made a huge mistake by choosing to first attack the press and the supposedly cumbersome rules of the tournaments without verifying privately with them that they wouldn't make an exception for her.
 
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You take the Japan Organising Committee to a court of arbitration.

There's also a clause in the UK/Australian Free Trade Agreement that allows corporations to take states to court.

It's a common clause these days.

Firstservingman said:
Even then, how do you take a sovereign nation to court? It's kinda strange, like what court?

They could just refuse to pay then too, not like anyone is gonna try and arrest them. It wouldn't look good sure but plenty of countries just ignore much more serious judgements. i reckon they should just blow off the IOC and cancel it
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She should have just said if I want to skip a press conference bc im uncomfortable, I will and I will pay the fines. It's the decision to say im not going to do any press period that did her in, and it was all handled poorly after that. Somehow I get the feeling if one of the big 3 said im not doing any press all tournament, some of the people defending Naomi would be trashing them.
 
In short, they told the NYT they rang, but didn't tell the NYT what they said. Someone is getting played here and it's their readers.

Keizer said:
Well, we will never know because she didn't even deign to negotiate with them. Fact of the matter is that she thought she would get away with fines and never anticipated that they would threaten to default her. That's on her and her team, not on them.
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Dolgopolov85 said:
Exactly this.

I think without generalizing too much we are seeing pure Gen Z behaviour here. Someone who has lived in a tennis + Insta/Twitter bubble acting out in the only way she knows. She has not learnt that in the real world, you first communicate to decision makers and record their (presumably unacceptable) decision before going to the press. I don't know if she has an agent (and how could she not have) but it is their responsibility as well to persuade her that this is the right way to go and tweet the news on the Friday before the main draw gets underway.

It's a paradox. In terms of her tennis achievements, Osaka is simply in another league where us lesser mortals can never get to in several lifetimes put together. But as a person, she clearly has a long way to go to understanding power and negotiating with it. Remember how the Williams sisters went about bargaining for equal pay. They just wrote a respectful open letter asking for it. No threats of boycotts, nothing. They didn't need to, because it was too embarrassing for the slams to deny such a request when it was made so courteously. Osaka made a huge mistake by choosing to first attack the press and the supposedly cumbersome rules of the tournaments without verifying privately with them that they wouldn't make an exception for her.
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Yup.
This way she now likely has the media offside with her for god knows how long and for nothing. Not good enemies to make when you're trying to get established as the face of women's tennis and get that free sponsorship and promotion money
 
Bartelby said:
You take the Japan Organising Committee to a court of arbitration.

There's also a clause in the UK/Australian Free Trade Agreement that allows corporations to take states to court.

It's a common clause these days.
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I love undermining our sovereignty in the name of "free trade" haha
 
I can't see it. She has considerable public sympathy. Who is going to kick someone with mental health issues in the groin? She made the authorities look like bullies by withdrawing.

Firstservingman said:
Yup.
This way she now likely has the media offside with her for god knows how long and for nothing. Not good enemies to make when you're trying to get established as the face of women's tennis and get that free sponsorship and promotion money
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Bartelby said:
I can't see it. She has considerable public sympathy. Who is going to kick someone with mental health issues in the groin? She made the authorities look like bullies by withdrawing.
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Maybe. Her brief vague mention of "mental health" looks pretty lame to me but she'll have her friends in the twitterati of course. if she'd pled her case more (privately) it would have possibly netted her an exemption without the fuss
 
Bartelby said:
Undermining sovereignty for corporations is increasingly the norm. It was in the Australian/US free trade agreement too. But Trump saved us from that. He did one good thing at least!
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quite true
 
Bartelby said:
In short, they told the NYT they rang, but didn't tell the NYT what they said. Someone is getting played here and it's their readers.
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Well, of course they said nothing because she didn't bother to engage with them? Here's an excerpt from the official statement issued by the four slams.

Following this announcement, the Roland-Garros teams asked her to reconsider her position and tried unsuccessfully to speak with her to check on her well-being, understand the specifics of her issue and what might be done to address it on site. Following the lack of engagement by Naomi Osaka, the Australian Open, Roland-Garros, Wimbledon and the US Open jointly wrote to her to check on her well-being and offer support, underline their commitment to all athletes’ well-being and suggest dialog on the issues.
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Again, her team thought she had the upper hand and a grasp on the worst possible punishment they could mete out. Once they went to the nuclear option, that notion collapsed.
 
Vague bureaucratic waffle brimming with the best of intentions but giving nothing away. The NYT and their corporate supporters in tennis are playing us for fools.

Keizer said:
Well, of course they said nothing because she didn't bother to engage with them? Here's an excerpt from the official statement issued by the four slams.



Again, her team thought she had the upper hand and a grasp on the worst possible punishment they could mete out. Once they went to the nuclear option, that notion collapsed.
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We are never really told the entirety of what goes on, but it's pretty clear tennis authorities think that pressers are something they don't want to change.

Firstservingman said:
Maybe. Her brief vague mention of "mental health" looks pretty lame to me but she'll have her friends in the twitterati of course. if she'd pled her case more (privately) it would have possibly netted her an exemption without the fuss
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I suppose that would be the easy answer. It's not just Marshawn's iconic moment, Belichick basically does the same sort of thing week in and week out to one degree or another with the Patriots, but I think her issue is that she's an introverted person, and probably therefore less willing to make such a spectacle of herself.
 
ibbi said:
I suppose that would be the easy answer. It's not just Marshawn's iconic moment, Belichick basically does the same sort of thing week in and week out to one degree or another with the Patriots, but I think her issue is that she's an introverted person, and probably therefore less willing to make such a spectacle of herself.
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Naomi can have a version of this...starring herself in both roles:)
 
Firstservingman said:
Yup.
This way she now likely has the media offside with her for god knows how long and for nothing. Not good enemies to make when you're trying to get established as the face of women's tennis and get that free sponsorship and promotion money
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She’s already the highest paid female athlete in history and I think her actually dropping out shows this isn’t just running away from questions but that she really is struggling mental health wise and perhaps players mental health Needs to be focussed on more instead of shoving a microphone in a crying persons face.
 
Aussie Darcy said:
She’s already the highest paid female athlete in history and I think her actually dropping out shows this isn’t just running away from questions but that she really is struggling mental health wise and perhaps players mental health Needs to be focussed on more instead of shoving a microphone in a crying persons face.
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If mental health issues are obstructing an athlete from performing well, he is not at the top of the world for years, so either what she is saying is not true, or those issues are not really the obstruction she claims them to be.

The implications of her stances will lead to massive destruction of the integrity of the game: anyone and everyone can claim such in order to bend the rules of the game, and many will.

8-)
 
Sad to see her go but it’s a power play move. She fired herself before they can fire her. Her soul cannot be bought and she has gained the sympathy of not just fans, but also professional athletes, including Step Curry.

Mental health is important for all players, and if a player is telling you she does not feel comfortable doing post-match interviews for the sake of her mental health, and you go about punishing her for it, best believe this will NOT bode well for the likes of tournament directors, Billie Jean, Navratilova and McEnroe.

Osaka has opened up an opportunity for discussion and CHANGE. Kudos to her for daring to challenge the status quo.
 
Had Osaka refused post match conference after a winning match as a form of protest, then she might have earned my respect, but she only did it when she lost...so she is basically a sore loser brat.
 
randomtoss said:
I can absolutely see what's different between playing in front of many people and doing a presser. One is a situation where you play a role, in a way. The other asks you to put your person and your inner world in front of a few inquisitive persons.

I know because I am a pretty shy person, who can get really stressed in a face to face meeting, but I'm also an opera singer who can perform in front of an audience of hundreds without being particularly frightened.
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The difference between playing a match and doing a presser?

One is something she’s spent every waking hour practicing and preparing for.

The other is something she never spent any time practicing for.

She needs to suck it up and start practicing what she’s bad at. Use a tiny fraction of her millions to pay people to drill her with mock interview questions on a daily basis. I guarantee that she’ll get better at it quickly! And once she gets better at it, those pressers would not feel so scary anymore.
 
She needs to suck it up? Too funny! Macho nonsense is not something she's ever going to do! She's a wallflower, as one used to say in non-psychological terms.

travlerajm said:
The difference between playing a match and doing a presser?

One is something she’s spent every waking hour practicing and preparing for.

The other is something she never spent any time practicing for.

She needs to suck it up and start practicing what she’s bad at. Use a tiny fraction of her millions to pay people to drill her with mock interview questions on a daily basis. I guarantee that she’ll get better at it quickly! And once she gets better at it, those pressers would not feel so scary anymore.
Click to expand...
 
Dolgopolov85 said:
Exactly this.

I think without generalizing too much we are seeing pure Gen Z behaviour here. Someone who has lived in a tennis + Insta/Twitter bubble acting out in the only way she knows. She has not learnt that in the real world, you first communicate to decision makers and record their (presumably unacceptable) decision before going to the press. I don't know if she has an agent (and how could she not have) but it is their responsibility as well to persuade her that this is the right way to go and not tweeting the news on the Friday before the main draw gets underway.

It's a paradox. In terms of her tennis achievements, Osaka is simply in another league where us lesser mortals can never get to in several lifetimes put together. But as a person, she clearly has a long way to go to understanding power and negotiating with it. Remember how the Williams sisters went about bargaining for equal pay. They just wrote a respectful open letter asking for it. No threats of boycotts, nothing. They didn't need to, because it was too embarrassing for the slams to deny such a request when it was made so courteously. Osaka made a huge mistake by choosing to first attack the press and the supposedly cumbersome rules of the tournaments without verifying privately with them that they wouldn't make an exception for her.
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I think this hits the nail on the head. Naomi raises some very valid points, but she did so very badly and went about it the wrong way.

I would have still done the press conferences, but I would have made a point to answer questions I've answered a million times with "I've answered this before, do you have anything NEW to ask me while you have me here?". Its still confrontational but its making her point and still meeting her obligations. It also forces the ball back on the media to see that they are being repetitive and dull. There is a time to dig in your heels and fight...but this was not it, at least not initially. This was coming from a woman who I do believe is struggling, but didn't have a team behind her she was willing to listen to and this situation has been made a lot worse for that. I hope she gets better mentally, I love watching her play and think she is a good person. I just think she needs to tweak her approach to things.
 
travlerajm said:
The difference between playing a match and doing a presser?

One is something she’s spent every waking hour practicing and preparing for.

The other is something she never spent any time practicing for.

She needs to suck it up and start practicing what she’s bad at. Use a tiny fraction of her millions to pay people to drill her with mock interview questions on a daily basis. I guarantee that she’ll get better at it quickly! And once she gets better at it, those pressers would not feel so scary anymore.
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Yeah maybe. But not everything can be overcome just with practice. Sometimes it takes much more, and sometimes you just can't do it.

And why are these pressers suddenly that important ? Isn't he job first and foremost to be good at tennis (which she really is!) ?
 
randomtoss said:
And why are these pressers suddenly that important ? Isn't he job first and foremost to be good at tennis (which she really is!) ?
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They were always important. They suddenly came under the spotlight thanks to Naomi’s poorly considered selfish move shining the spotlight on herself with 10x the intensity.
 
Fedinkum said:
Had Osaka refused post match conference after a winning match as a form of protest, then she might have earned my respect, but she only did it when she lost...so she is basically a sore loser brat.
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She did win the match... she didn’t lose and decline the conference she won and declined. So she may have earned your respect then? I mean it’s your own words.
 
Yeah, sure, Naomi is the Mick Jagger of female tennis, strutting and preening herself in the spotlight. Too funny!

travlerajm said:
They were always important. They suddenly came under the spotlight thanks to Naomi’s poorly considered selfish move shining the spotlight on herself with 10x the intensity.
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boredone3456 said:
I think this hits the nail on the head. Naomi raises some very valid points, but she did so very badly and went about it the wrong way.

I would have still done the press conferences, but I would have made a point to answer questions I've answered a million times with "I've answered this before, do you have anything NEW to ask me while you have me here?". Its still confrontational but its making her point and still meeting her obligations. It also forces the ball back on the media to see that they are being repetitive and dull. There is a time to dig in your heels and fight...but this was not it, at least not initially. This was coming from a woman who I do believe is struggling, but didn't have a team behind her she was willing to listen to and this situation has been made a lot worse for that. I hope she gets better mentally, I love watching her play and think she is a good person. I just think she needs to tweak her approach to things.
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Yeah, I remember when once a journalist started interrogating Konta too closely and tried to prove she had choked on crucial points, she shot back saying, "Don't patronize me". If Osaka simply pushed back in the same way, nobody is going to blame her. Players routinely own journalists asking stupid questions. It's part of the game.
 
She doesn't have that personality. She is not Konta. She is a completely different person. She's not given to direct confrontation, that should be abundantly clear by now.

Dolgopolov85 said:
Yeah, I remember when once a journalist started interrogating Konta too closely and tried to prove she had choked on crucial points, she shot back saying, "Don't patronize me". If Osaka simply pushed back in the same way, nobody is going to blame her. Players routinely own journalists asking stupid questions. It's part of the game.
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Bartelby said:
She doesn't have that personality. She is not Konta. She is a completely different person. She's not given to direct confrontation, that should be abundantly clear by now.
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And so she will instead take to Twitter and throw all journalists under the bus? Yeah, that's totally going to solve the problem.
 
Osaka is introverted as you can possibly get (certainly for a superstar athlete) so I don't think she can push back or talk back even if she tried

Someone like Kyrgios would revel in it willingly and he loves it, confrontation comes naturally to him but Osaka ain't that type
 
Dolgopolov85 said:
And so she will instead take to Twitter and throw all journalists under the bus? Yeah, that's totally going to solve the problem.
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She didn't name anyone or any organization, just said she doesn't want to do it. And then like most people with mental health issues, removed herself from the situation. Her statements and wording could have been far better but the staples are there.
 
Sephiroth said:
Osaka is introverted as you can possibly get so I don't think she can push back or talk back even if she tried

Someone like Kyrgios would revel in it willingly and he loves it, confrontation comes naturally to him but Osaka ain't that type
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All introverts aren't made the same way. I am an introvert too. I get very uncomfortable in large gatherings unless I can count on the company of at least a few people I know already. I have gotten better at handling it because one just has to, but it was more difficult in my twenties.

HOWEVER, if somebody is crossing the line, I have never hesitated to tell them clearly and unambiguously, but politely, to stop. I know other introverts who are that way.

So maybe she has some passive aggressive tendencies on top of her introversion so that she bites back on her anger until the dam bursts.
 
Dolgopolov85 said:
All introverts aren't made the same way. I am an introvert too. I get very uncomfortable in large gatherings unless I can count on the company of at least a few people I know already. I have gotten better at handling it because one just has to, but it was more difficult in my twenties.

HOWEVER, if somebody is crossing the line, I have never hesitated to tell them clearly and unambiguously, but politely, to stop. I know other introverts who are that way.

So maybe she has some passive aggressive tendencies on top of her introversion so that she bites back on her anger until the dam bursts.
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Yeah when the dam bursts it's of course it's a different thing but Osaka strikes me as someone that if she were to push back it'd be in a fight or flight situation, it'd have to be that extreme

I don't think she can verbally hold an argument in that type of confrontational, back and forth nature, some people are easy to read like that
 
Aussie Darcy said:
She didn't name anyone or any organization, just said she doesn't want to do it. And then like most people with mental health issues, removed herself from the situation. Her statements and wording could have been far better but the staples are there.
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She said people have NO regard for mental health of athletes and then said their questions plant doubt. In the first place, that's an extreme formulation in today's day and age. People are way more open now bout discussing or taking on board mental health issues. I remember how it used to be in the 90s and we have come a very long way since then. The thing Osaka doesn't realise is unless she told these hurtful 'people' beforehand, they could not have known that their questions were harming her in any way. It is not healthy to expect media or anyone in general to perpetually interact under the assumption that somebody may be mentally ill. It's better to open up. And so she did; unfortunately she did at the very juncture when she cited that as the reason to pull out of press conferences. That doesn't sound like she gave anyone a chance to make amends.
 
Dolgopolov85 said:
She said people have NO regard for mental health of athletes and then said their questions plant doubt. In the first place, that's an extreme formulation in today's day and age. People are way more open now bout discussing or taking on board mental health issues. I remember how it used to be in the 90s and we have come a very long way since then. The thing Osaka doesn't realise is unless she told these hurtful 'people' beforehand, they could not have known that their questions were harming her in any way. It is not healthy to expect media or anyone in general to perpetually interact under the assumption that somebody may be mentally ill. It's better to open up. And so she did; unfortunately she did at the very juncture when she cited that as the reason to pull out of press conferences. That doesn't sound like she gave anyone a chance to make amends.
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She's not wrong. They have no concern for mental health. Look at the players who've broken down in press conferences. She said she didn't want a part of the press conferences and instead of anyone trying to understand her all 4 slams said she could be banned from tournaments so she goes and withdraws to avoid that. The way she went about it is wrong but the way people are responding to the mental health claims show she has a point. People here don't care about players mental health. People are mocking a young woman who said she can't handle it and belittling her. It's disgusting.
 
BJK doesn't agree with you. She merely asserted that the press is important for tennis. The idea that an Osaka press conference is important for tennis is fanciful.

Dolgopolov85 said:
Somebody on whatsapp accused me of imposing my misplaced masculinity on Osaka for calling her out. I saw this tweet and mentioned that BJK agrees with me so maybe she has misplaced masculinity too. Welp! That dude won't bite now.
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Dolgopolov85 said:
Somebody on whatsapp accused me of imposing my misplaced masculinity on Osaka for calling her out. I saw this tweet and mentioned that BJK agrees with me so maybe she has misplaced masculinity too. Welp! That dude won't bite now.
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BJK tweeted way before Osaka had withdrawn, a move most people didn't see coming and most have now changed views because it's clear Osaka is struggling with mental issues and this wasn't just a way to avoid clay scrutiny but a player who is struggling to stay in the sport.
 
Aussie Darcy said:
She's not wrong. They have no concern for mental health. Look at the players who've broken down in press conferences. She said she didn't want a part of the press conferences and instead of anyone trying to understand her all 4 slams said she could be banned from tournaments so she goes and withdraws to avoid that. The way she went about it is wrong but the way people are responding to the mental health claims show she has a point. People here don't care about players mental health. People are mocking a young woman who said she can't handle it and belittling her. It's disgusting.
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I am sorry but nobody is obliged to understand someone who doesn't, as I said, give you a fair shot to listen to their problems and make rectifications. Why, if she can't pick up the phone and talk to tournament directors, she can just send them email requests. She can ask her publicist to do that on her behalf. She messed up.
 
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