Should on court coaching be stopped? Watched jCF give Alcaraz instructions on every single point is just beyond ridiculous

Goof

Professional
The coaching hampered Carlitos yesterday; the tactics were wrong and too numerous. Carlos should have told his box to shut up and tried to figure things out himself like Coco has done to her box several times this tournament (and often doing the opposite of what they tell her!).
 

Pass750

Professional
Score one for non coaching! Carlos should fire the team, their coaching helped him lose. Medvedev looked to have gotten no in match coaching and kicked Carlos and his teams ass!
 
If I were a coach, I’d be trying to train my charges to cope without my coaching in court. I think they’d have a massive advantage as the current trend is this dependence.
As I’ve said before the first ATG potential player with a mind of their own to come along … Bingo.
They also need not to be a hothead. Sorry Meddy.
 

mental midget

Hall of Fame
Yes, on court coaching is against the spirit of the game.
agree. i mean, on one hand i don't think it's changed the game all that much, but at the same time, i don't think there was anything wrong with how the game used to be played...i loved the idea of being out there on your own once the match starts.

i think of tennis of being similar to boxing, though, and coaching has always been a feature of that sport in-between rounds, so...yeah not the worst thing but just another example of something they didn't need to fix. if we're making big changes, the only one i'd be in favor of is losing the let cord on serves....make your serve and whatever happens, happens.
 
Not really concerned how it looks (doesn't look good) as much as it will make players softer and less reliant on their inner strength. Yes, players can get instructions from coaches by signs but it's not the same.
 

Fedeonic

Hall of Fame
The worst problem of hearing Ferrero's constant talk is that I understand it all.
Since coaching came to stay, I want the WTA 2017-2021 coaching method, the coach goes to the court during the changeover and starts giving instructions to the player.
 

dannythomas

Professional
And just to highlight it all Mary Jo was providing ESPN viewers with regular translations of what JCF was telling Carlos .

Coaching only on change overs please.
 

nawoo

Rookie
Badminton has coaching during the changeovers as well. But at least it’s not every single point coaching

They should do it like Badminton where can only get coached during the odd game changeovers
 
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paolo2143

Hall of Fame
I honestly think in 1-1 sports coaching should not be allowed during match but if it is then surely better if players are only allowed coaching for say a minute or so at end of each set. This coaching during every point is ruining things and personally it also makes comparisons to past greats even harder.

At least likes of Laver, Borg, McEnroe, Connors, Lendl, Sampras & Agassi didn't turn to their coach for advice every point or after every game. They should be big enough to figure some of he solutions themselves. Look at Rafa, Roger, Novak & even Danii as they will often know they have to change things during match and don't need a coach to point the obvious.
 

TheSlicer

Hall of Fame
The worst problem of hearing Ferrero's constant talk is that I understand it all.
Since coaching came to stay, I want the WTA 2017-2021 coaching method, the coach goes to the court during the changeover and starts giving instructions to the player.
No, no lo entiendes, si lo entendieras te gustaría lol
 

TheSlicer

Hall of Fame
Yeah honestly every point coaching is too much... how about putting the coaches on a cristal bubble where they can see the match but players cant see them? That would solve illegal coaching and we can go back to true 1 on 1
 

Eureka

Professional
Everybody got illegal coaching; it’s why they changed the rule! :rolleyes:
Hello Rattie. When coaching was made legal, I was very disappointed for a number of reasons. One of them was that even if it went on by some, it should not be legitimised. But it was made legal. Carlos and his team are free to do as they choose. It is irrelevant to ask whether it should be allowed - it is allowed.

What beggars belief is the view that Carlos gains an 'unfair' advantage somehow. I thought I'd read most of the idiotic nuances of the vitriol and bias against Carlos, but obviously not. It seems that there is a bottomless cesspit of the attitudes of some, who wear it like a badge of honour. Pathetic.

Carlos has achieved what he has through his efforts and phenomenal skills. If the coaching were a yardstick, most of the current non-achievers would have achieved more. They haven't. He has.
 

Pass750

Professional
Hello Rattie. When coaching was made legal, I was very disappointed for a number of reasons. One of them was that even if it went on by some, it should not be legitimised. But it was made legal. Carlos and his team are free to do as they choose. It is irrelevant to ask whether it should be allowed - it is allowed.

What beggars belief is the view that Carlos gains an 'unfair' advantage somehow. I thought I'd read most of the idiotic nuances of the vitriol and bias against Carlos, but obviously not. It seems that there is a bottomless cesspit of the attitudes of some, who wear it like a badge of honour. Pathetic.

Carlos has achieved what he has through his efforts and phenomenal skills. If the coaching were a yardstick, most of the current non-achievers would have achieved more. They haven't. He has.
Based on the results of his last match Carlos would have been better off without the incessant coaching!
 

tennis4me

Hall of Fame
The tour is going to make improvement on this next year. Since many of the coaching instructions got lost due to crowd noise, each player will be equipped with a pair of $3200 Bluetooth earbuds to hear point-by-point coaching, even mid-point coaching! All courtesy of the tour's new sponsor, Audio-Technica - seller of the most expensive BT earbuds.

"Not working, Coach." "Where to serve next?" "What should I do?". "Take an MTO now or go take a toilet break!" :p

Problem solving, anyone? That's part of the game, no?
 

Eureka

Professional
Based on the results of his last match Carlos would have been better off without the incessant coaching!
Does this mean that people lose because of coaching? I don't think you are implying that to be the case. If you mean that his team bamboozled him - I'm not aware of the evidence that this is why he lost to Daniil. I accept the possibility that he could have been better off but don't accept your emphatic bolded comment..
I've watched the match - Carlos was outplayed for the most part, and as he had said himself (without the help of a coach - looool!) he had no answers to Daniiil. Words to that effect. It is far more likely in my view that Carlos was beaten by the better player on the day than that his team put the kybosh on him.
 

Rattie

Legend
Hello Rattie. When coaching was made legal, I was very disappointed for a number of reasons. One of them was that even if it went on by some, it should not be legitimised. But it was made legal. Carlos and his team are free to do as they choose. It is irrelevant to ask whether it should be allowed - it is allowed.

What beggars belief is the view that Carlos gains an 'unfair' advantage somehow. I thought I'd read most of the idiotic nuances of the vitriol and bias against Carlos, but obviously not. It seems that there is a bottomless cesspit of the attitudes of some, who wear it like a badge of honour. Pathetic.

Carlos has achieved what he has through his efforts and phenomenal skills. If the coaching were a yardstick, most of the current non-achievers would have achieved more. They haven't. He has.
Very well put Eureka. I had no strong feelings either way about the change although I can see why they changed it and also see the compelling arguments as to why it should not be changed. I took issue with finger pointing at Rafa on this occasion, which is just petty cherry picking.

As to the rest of your post, again I agree. The irony being so many of them while endlessly complaining about the lack of a new player in their “weak era” who can potentially play at the level of the big 3, then do nothing but complain about the one who does appear. Dumb!
 

Eureka

Professional
.................Problem solving, anyone? That's part of the game, no?
I concur - coaching should not have been legitimised. That said, Carlos has shown how, when his game is on, he adapts and evolves in a match to change his strategy. He is an excellent problem solver.
 

Aurellian

Semi-Pro
Coaching matters. I was in someone's box at Wimbledon and the advice given turned the tide and allowed the player to win the match against Brandon Nishaakir (sp). It matters for sure. The psych bump helps too.
 

Pass750

Professional
Does this mean that people lose because of coaching? I don't think you are implying that to be the case. If you mean that his team bamboozled him - I'm not aware of the evidence that this is why he lost to Daniil. I accept the possibility that he could have been better off but don't accept your emphatic bolded comment..
I've watched the match - Carlos was outplayed for the most part, and as he had said himself (without the help of a coach - looool!) he had no answers to Daniiil. Words to that effect. It is far more likely in my view that Carlos was beaten by the better player on the day than that his team put the kybosh on him.
I am just being a bit facetious here as I am against the level of on court coaching he is getting.
 

FeroBango

Legend
This is the number one reason i am glad Alcaraz lost as i did not want the chihuahuas in his box yapping throughout the finals and taking up screen time
Too bad you're going to have to live through Serbian chihuahas yapping about the same amount.

Have you been watching Nole matches?
 

FeroBango

Legend
Hello Rattie. When coaching was made legal, I was very disappointed for a number of reasons. One of them was that even if it went on by some, it should not be legitimised. But it was made legal. Carlos and his team are free to do as they choose. It is irrelevant to ask whether it should be allowed - it is allowed.

What beggars belief is the view that Carlos gains an 'unfair' advantage somehow. I thought I'd read most of the idiotic nuances of the vitriol and bias against Carlos, but obviously not. It seems that there is a bottomless cesspit of the attitudes of some, who wear it like a badge of honour. Pathetic.

Carlos has achieved what he has through his efforts and phenomenal skills. If the coaching were a yardstick, most of the current non-achievers would have achieved more. They haven't. He has.
I have to repeat in every clone of this thread that Carlos has won numerous events without Ferrero even being in the same county as he.
 

Robert F

Hall of Fame
I was initially against coaching, and I hated the WTA on-court version. That just came across as too parental and almost forced. Remember a lot of the women ignoring their coaches or yelling at their coaches.

I think this version has grown on me. Can give a little insight as to how the player is coping with a current problem and what they need to do different.
Maybe things will evolve to what Carlos is doing needing point to point instructions, but most of the coaching has been encouragement and some strategic guidance.

I also think the coaching can help others, distract some and harm others.

Will we start to have opposing member sit near the other teams box to give intel to the his team?

I hear the fear of the players becoming mindless automatons. But that might also become a weakness.
Someone else had mentioned, that this also might be optics--the way it is covered and the way the commentators react seem to be magnifying the relationship.
 

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
I don't think it takes anything away from play, except I don't particular like the extra time to stand and listen. In that regard, I don't think it adds anything for spectators.
 

Roddickulous1

Semi-Pro
Yes, officially. Mirka outcoached Brad Gilbert during the third set rain delay in the 2004 Wimbledon final. At the time it was 1 set all against Roddick, and Roddick up 4-2 in the third set. Federer won in 4 sets.
This didn't happen at all. Federer called Reto Staubli during the rain delay who gave him advice and told him to change tactics which helped turn the match around for Fed.

Read up this article.

 

RVAtennisaddict

Professional
I don't have a huge issue with coaching, but it should be like in other sports - at specific times. Change over/time out/half time/etc. Being told where to serve each serve, coaching on a micro level point to point - is wrong. Even worse it detracts from the match/the sport/ and if the player wins - from their victory.

That being said unless, I don't think the umpires should be enforcing coaching/not coaching. But I would have love to see them sited for hinderance to play or start the "serve clock" much faster so that they couldn't have a conversation every single point. And maybe there should be a screen showing both teams boxes.

I mean I would have loved if Med was intercepting the calls and cheating on the returns - just because it was so annoying.

I want to like Alcaraz, but something about him when he is not in the point - the non-play activities- pushes me away
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
This is the number one reason i am glad Alcaraz lost as i did not want the chihuahuas in his box yapping throughout the finals and taking up screen time
I was rooting for Carlos, but I have to agree. JCF is more annoying and intrusive than Daddy Tsistipas (that's a high bar). It's also not a good look for Carlos to be so dependent on his box for strategy. Problem solving himself is something he definitely needs to work on. It's just not cool that the #1 or #2 player in the world relies on help for every single shot. I'm sure he'll learn, he's only 20.
 
I speak fluent Spanish and I didn't find JCF's remarks to be particularly helpful or original:

"May the Force be with you"

"You talking to me?"

"You can't handle the truth"

"What we've got here...is a failure to communicate"

"Say hello to my little friend!"
 

Don Felder

Semi-Pro
Leaving aside the bigger-picture issue of whether there should be ANY coaching in tennis (spoiler alert: I think not), the Alcaraz-JCF coaching thing is really annoying on so many levels:

1. I don’t want to see JCF every other point gesticulating and looking concerned like he’s watching his elderly parent pass away at their hospice bed. It’s melodramatic, contrived, and ridiculous.

2. I think it’s counterproductive, especially to a phenom shotmaker like Carlos. Carlos should be instinctual out there.

3. It infantilizes Carlos. This kid is an insane talent. He doesn’t or shouldn’t need somebody to tell him where or how to hit every last serve or groundie.

4. It’s detrimental to growing the game. Carlos is electric and could fill the fan void the big three will leave. I have many casual tennis fan friends who watch but don’t play. They’ve all quickly come to love Alcaraz. But I was getting many messages this tournament about how they’re souring on Carlos because of the incessant coaching point in and point out. It’s even annoying to them, who don’t play the game.

It really feels like the problem is getting worse. Wish they’d dial it back. But I have a feeling this will be like grunting — no putting the toothpaste back in the tube once it’s out there.
 

Halba

Hall of Fame
Coach at this level is mostly meaningless. the player makes the player once you are at a certain level. Does Djokovic even have a coach anymore? His old coach Vadja is gone many years ago. Goran is more a mentor than a coach for Novak.
 

Halba

Hall of Fame
I don't have a huge issue with coaching, but it should be like in other sports - at specific times. Change over/time out/half time/etc. Being told where to serve each serve, coaching on a micro level point to point - is wrong. Even worse it detracts from the match/the sport/ and if the player wins - from their victory.

That being said unless, I don't think the umpires should be enforcing coaching/not coaching. But I would have love to see them sited for hinderance to play or start the "serve clock" much faster so that they couldn't have a conversation every single point. And maybe there should be a screen showing both teams boxes.

I mean I would have loved if Med was intercepting the calls and cheating on the returns - just because it was so annoying.

I want to like Alcaraz, but something about him when he is not in the point - the non-play activities- pushes me away
the micro coaching was ridiculous.
 
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