Should players avoid shaking hands with Sinner?
- Thread starter geromino
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thenewbig3
Rookie
Pretty funny 
Rosstour
G.O.A.T.
How do we know that?
Dominic & Andrey
Legend
Wtf
mtommer
Hall of Fame
Lol, I agree. Imagine if the next player caught for the same substance uses, "Exposure to known contaminated player, Jannik Sinner." as their "source" of contamination.Pretty funny
Rosstour
G.O.A.T.
It all depends on the stature of the other player and how much money he has access to. Seriously.
Guys are catching 2yr bans for weed, and anyone who's ever smoked will tell you it's NOT a performance enhancer....meanwhile Sinner got popped TWICE and will end up with a slap on the wrist
Subway Tennis
G.O.A.T.
You think the average pro is trying to avoid Sinner?
Anyone on tour with a pulse is pestering Sinner’s team 24/7 for a chance to pick his brain or hit with him even if they hate him lol.Its hilarious seeing WADA-Bot newbies talk about Clostebol as of it’s some kind of radioactive substance. There are more powerful compounds in our girlfriends’ and wives’ skincare products lol.
Rosstour
G.O.A.T.
You think the average pro is trying to avoid Sinner?
Its hilarious seeing WADA-Bot newbies talk about Clostebol as of it’s some kind of radioactive substance. There are more powerful compounds in our girlfriends’ and wives’ skincare products lol.
So why would he risk it
It's a masking agent sir
Subway Tennis
G.O.A.T.
He didn’t risk it. Accidental transmission.
Even if it had been intentional, the masking agent thing makes no sense. It would be CRAZY to use a banned substance that is so easy to detect and has such an intrinsically harsh penalty itself on its own to mask a hormonal substance that Sinner, at his age and genetic base, already has coarsing through his body in natural abundance anyway
Rosstour
G.O.A.T.
He didn’t risk it. Accidental transmission.
Even if it had been intentional, the masking agent thing makes no sense. It would be CRAZY to use a banned substance that is so easy to detect and has such an intrinsically harsh penalty itself on its own to mask a hormonal substance that Sinner, at his age and genetic base, already has coarsing through his body in natural abundance anyway
Buddy please come back down to earth. It doesn't work that way ("why does he need testosterone if he's already brimming with it?")
Other athletes have tested positive for this substance. They got banned. It's clearly not the main doping element, it's there to provide an excuse/ cover. Please don't be so credulous/naive
Rosstour
G.O.A.T.
Only fired them once it became public. Doesn't pass smell test
Rafa4LifeEver
G.O.A.T.
Clostebol is a masking agent for something more sinister.
RSJfan
Hall of Fame
Monster groundstrokes.
Subway Tennis
G.O.A.T.
I like your work on here but you’re wrong in this case. Masking agents work in very specific ways. You can’t just chuck Clostebol into a protocol and use it to cloak a real bad guy lol.
The accidental transmission thing makes perfect sense to me.
Maybe he is on some really special cookies and he is being smart about it and avoiding detection but heavy hitting well known PEDs are not being hidden by Clostebol.
Rafa4LifeEver
G.O.A.T.
So much corruption everywhere.
Even though Jarry has no chance whatsoever to beat him, I hope he serves like peak Isner & hits like peak Djokovic to take the doping Italian out.
Rosstour
G.O.A.T.
Yup. I can't root for Sinner unless he's playing Djoko or...well, that's about it
Rafa4LifeEver
G.O.A.T.
I can't root for him even if he's playing Djoko, its that bad now.
RSJfan
Hall of Fame
On TTW the same exact subject will go in circles ad infinitum. Proof of a virtual perpetual motion machine. Yes, it made sense to three different scientific experts as well. And to all three parties: Sinner, ITIA and WADA. TTW goes on.
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Subway Tennis
G.O.A.T.
A Celine Dion GIF in a Sinner hate troll thread lol.On TTW the same exact subject will go in circles ad infinitum. Proof of virtual perpetual motion machine. Yes, it made sense to three different scientific experts as well.And to all three parties: Sinner, ITIA and WADA. TTW goes on.
This in competition with @vive le beau jeu ! in terms of creative segues
Rosstour
G.O.A.T.
This sounds more like something that sounds good to you vs something that you know.
It is naive in the extreme to think we have the whole picture, most of us don't understand the issue which is proved by comments like "he's already got enough testosterone" or "but he's so skinny he's obviously not on steroids"
Even the testing authorities are playing catchup and are constantly caught off guard. Let alone the laymen
If you like Sinner, OK. But don't let that take away your common sense
By virtue of WADA 's impregnable testing regime.
RSJfan
Hall of Fame
Honored to be in the same company as The Master.A Celine Dion GIF in a Sinner hate troll thread lol.
This in competition with @vive le beau jeu ! in terms of creative segues
messiahrobins
Legend
Id want more than a handshake of Bouchard to be fair. Ive asked her for a date on X over the years almost daily and never had a reply. Probably not the social media platform she uses that often maybe.
messiahrobins
Legend
Really? He is a ginger though.
Subway Tennis
G.O.A.T.
I do agree that most people dont understand much about PEDs, and there is a fear factor there. Capitalising on people’s fear and lack of knowledge about PED’s and concerns that it was creating two classes of athietes in the 80s and 90s is what built the behemoth drugs watchdogs like WADA. Sports needed reputational control and Olympic committees wanted someone to cry to when they had a bad Olympics.
But with that said, and getting back to Clostebol, we are not talking about a great unknown or space age PEDs in method or substance here Ross. This is back to basics stuff involving a mild and well-vetted over the counter product whose use in sports is very much on the record.
People are talking about testosterone and Sinner in this case not through a lack of knowledge but because it is so intrinsically linked to the main usage case for Clostebol as a PED. It is a good defence for Sinner because he so clearly doesn’t benefit from what Clostebol does in the majority. Why would he risk a massive suspension for a mild PED whose benefits are useless to him. And that brings is back to the finding of accidental transmission.
WADA is caught off guard and playing catch-up, but they eventually get there in the end and we have their findings to support that.
Rosstour
G.O.A.T.
Norwegian cross-country skier Therese Johaug tests positive
The Norwegian ski federation says three-time Olympic cross-country medalist Therese Johaug has tested positive for a banned substance contained in a sun screen.
apnews.com
Just one of the examples of other athletes using it. This one was an Olympic medalist CC skier, another endurance-heavy sport and not one that rewards huge muscle mass. You're thinking 80s bodybuilders and it ain't that
She claimed accidental contamination as well.
So if it was an accident why did the Norwegian team doctor have to resign?
You're assuming clostebol was all he was doing--that is much more charitable than he deserves
Subway Tennis
G.O.A.T.
That is not an effective example to use to suggest a benefit to Sinner.Norwegian cross-country skier Therese Johaug tests positive
The Norwegian ski federation says three-time Olympic cross-country medalist Therese Johaug has tested positive for a banned substance contained in a sun screen.
Just one of the examples of other athletes using it. This one was an Olympic medalist CC skier, another endurance-heavy sport and not one that rewards huge muscle mass. You're thinking 80s bodybuilders and it ain't that
She claimed accidental contamination as well.
So if it was an accident why did the Norwegian team doctor have to resign?
You're assuming clostebol was all he was doing--that is much more charitable than he deserves
A mild compound like Clostebol would not have the same positive effect for him.
The case you’ve posted essentially illustrates the benefit of Clostebol (theres a reason it is a banned substance lol) and is the most popular usage case for it: Female athletes who stand to gain from a product that has hormonal benefits but helps them to avoid estrogenic side effects.
Male pro athletes have huge reserves of these hormones already and dont have the same estrogenic conversion that they need to negate.
Sinner can not biologically benefit in the same way. Firstly he is naturally extremely androgenic specifically, so the benefit of Clostebol is extremely marginal, and also because he is a male pro athlete he just doesnt need to protect against the same estrogenic side effects.
Rosstour
G.O.A.T.
No sir I'm sorry I can't accept this. What you're saying about "Sinner has enough testosterone already because he's a guy" is very naive and ignorant. And if you want to say that he specifically is extra-testosterone-laden then I'll take issue with that as well. He doesn't exhibit any of the typical signs of that. Slim build, long legs, no facial or body hair.
Carlos has a full beard on the back of his neck. Fed's legs looked like the wolfman. What is your evidence for Sinner being above-average androgenic, aside from wishing it?
And finally, it's not big muscles these guys are after, although Sinner has obviously packed on the muscle since the scandal broke. It's endurance. Blood doping is the holy grail and you're fooling yourself if you think clostebol was the main character in his stack of chems.
Rosstour
G.O.A.T.
What's your theory? Blood doping or something more advanced?
Subway Tennis
G.O.A.T.
Sinner being solely male is not why I think he has high testosterone levels. I think he has high testosterone because he is a guy who is also a pro athlete lol.
Im sure there are some exceptions in pro sports with lower athletic thresholds, but it’s very rare for a male pro athlete in their early 20s to have anything lower than well above average testosterone levels. Thats why Clostebol has such limited value to him.
Im normally against an eye test for hormonal levels because we have better data than that. But even on a superficial visual level Sinner is very androgenic. The guy is nothing bit skin, muscle, ligament and teeth with absurdly low bodyfat.
Rosstour
G.O.A.T.
But this is all just "I think"
And again, the premise that he was just doing clostebol, just to spike his testosterone....you don't know that either
You're making two mistakes. You're not Sinner's doctor so saying "he's got absurdly high testosterone" is just a hope, nothing more. Then you're saying "....so clostebol has no value to him " as if you know the real reason for any of this doping...and it's clear you don't totally grasp it bc you're thinking Arnold/80s roidhead as opposed to a sophisticated cocktail of steroids and blood doping and masking agents which is what a player like Sinner would be using
Subway Tennis
G.O.A.T.
We know what Clostebol does and how it works. There is no guesswork here. We dont have to imagine anything. It’s all there in the extensive research on it as an everyday consumer product, and also the research on it as a PED where it is detected in far more extreme quantities than Sinner.
It’s not a superdrug that can mask blood doping lol. You posted an example how it is used and that was the drug at its most effective.
If Sinner were using a sophisticated cocktail of drugs to mask something else, he would have to be crazy to include an already banned substance in a microscopic quantity where it would not cloak spiked biological thresholds and would still accidentally get him pinged for two years lol.
Irony alert.
Rosstour
G.O.A.T.
Right. Neither of us know. But @Subway Tennis is an earnest guy who doesn't like to believe the worst. It's more logical to believe that there's more going on than we know, not less.
how ironic….. lol
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
Rovesciarete
Hall of Fame
Another thread throwing out a question which could have been answered by reading the ITIA report and some of the links. Kissing beautiful Johaug after she smeared her lips to treat a sunburn could or having more fun with a woman who treated a particular area did contaminate another athlete. Shaking the hand of person can similarly result in a contamination if the substance is directly applied in a large enough quantity.
Sinner‘s traces are as incompatible with the latter, just as the question of the thread is with logic.
Sinner‘s traces are as incompatible with the latter, just as the question of the thread is with logic.
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kangaroo1973
Semi-Pro
Dont blame Sinner. Blame the system
Apun94
Hall of Fame
exactly!
Aabye5
G.O.A.T.
Rafa4LifeEver
G.O.A.T.
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