Should RG central court be renamed again?

Mainad

Bionic Poster
No disrespectful at all since the former tennis player Phillipe Chatrier has made far less contributions to RG than Nadal. 11 RG > 0 RG. It is not disrespect. It is justice and objectivity.

Even other Frenchmen like Max Decugis have made far bigger contributions to RG than Chatrier. Max Decugis won 8 RG.

But yeah, I suppose unobjectivity and hate can't be cured.

There's more to contributing to how a great tennis tournament works than just turning up and winning titles there.
 

Goret

Rookie
Let's remind the stubborn people here that:

- Taking one's name off from something that honored them IS a mark of disrespect to that person who was formerly chosen. I'm talking about persons, taking examples that do no not involve persons implicitly proves this point...

- Regarding naming and success, we shouldn't forget the US Open main court is named after someone who's neither the most successful person at the USO, nor the most successful US tennis player. The second court is named after someone whose contribution to tennis really isn't huge (how many titles has Louis Armstrong won)? I'd suppose those who want RG's main venue renamed after Nadal, would want and campaign for Arthur Ashe Stadium to be renamed as "Serena Williams Stadium" and keep saying it'd be no disrespect to Ashe? Or just have the USTA Billie Jean King National Tennis Center renamed into the "USTA Serena Williams National Tennis Center"... (and here, I chose an US person)

- Regarding the nationality unofficial rule, find me five examples where a top national-level equiment (thus not a school, street, city library, minor stadium of your local club...) is named to honor a sportsperson who isn't a national of the country...
 

Shank Volley

Hall of Fame
I would not find it odd. No rule indicating only French players can give name to French courts.

Yes, I would say 11 RG are a greater contribution than 0 RG and being president of the French Tennis Federation. Who will be more remembered? Nadal or Phillipie Chatrier? Almost no one knows who is Phillipe Chatrier (even if you ask French people, most will know who is Nadal and virtually no one will know who is Phillipe Chatrier).

Even Max Decugis (a French citizen) made more contributions to RG than Phillipe Chatrier. Max Decugis won 8 RG titles!!!

How in your mind have you equated winning Roland Garros to contributing to Roland Garros? That's achieving something for personal glory, not contributing to the sport. Do you even know what the word means? Are you being wilfully dense?
 

Shank Volley

Hall of Fame
There's more to contributing to how a great tennis tournament works than just turning up and winning titles there.

Thank you! Every post this guy has made in this thread has been about winning slams being contributing to that slam. All you have to do is use that equivalency in more sentences to see exactly how stupid it is.

"Federer has contributed to 20 grand slams and contributed to 100 tournaments overall."

"Nick Kyrgios contributed to Acapulco in 2019. Alexander Zverev came very close to contributing, but unfortunately did not."
 
Thank you! Every post this guy has made in this thread has been about winning slams being contributing to that slam. All you have to do is use that equivalency in more sentences to see exactly how stupid it is.

"Federer has contributed to 20 grand slams and contributed to 100 tournaments overall."

"Nick Kyrgios contributed to Acapulco in 2019. Alexander Zverev came very close to contributing, but unfortunately did not."

When is the name of the sport (sic) changing to "Federer"?

:giggle:
 

Pantera

Banned
Nadal already has a court named after him in Barcelona and in Monte Carlo has the most prestigious suite named after him where all the billionaires go. Nadal likely to own Real Madrid soon, his legacy is complete so he will not want more honours bestowed on him. He is already royalty and probably craves less attention not more.
 

Shank Volley

Hall of Fame
When is the name of the sport (sic) changing to "Federer"?

:giggle:

Exactly! Though if we're being fair, the sport of tennis should be renamed to Jimmy Connors, and 'grand slam' should be renamed to Roger Federer.

I can see it now. Zverev standing on the podium at the Australian Open, smiling widely as the announcer declares: "Put your hands together for four time Roger Federer winner and this year's Australian Open champion, Alexander Zverev!" Doesn't it just sound right?
 
Exactly! Though if we're being fair, the sport of tennis should be renamed to Jimmy Connors, and 'grand slam' should be renamed to Roger Federer.

I can see it now. Zverev standing on the podium at the Australian Open, smiling widely as the announcer declares: "Put your hands together for four time Roger Federer winner and this year's Australian Open champion, Alexander Zverev!" Doesn't it just sound right?

"Have you watched any Federer today?"

:D
 

PDJ

G.O.A.T.
It's name was "court central" until 2001, when it was renamed to "Philippe Chatrier" after important french tennis official, so there's no long history of this name.

I believe Rafael Nadal made most significant mark on this court, of any player at any tennis court in history. I believe that the court should be named "Rafael Nadal" as a reminder for future players and generations, right after Rafa finishes his active singles career.

Would you agree?

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No. It's appropriately named. If Nadal, with his record, was French, then you'd have a valid argument.
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Thank you! Every post this guy has made in this thread has been about winning slams being contributing to that slam. All you have to do is use that equivalency in more sentences to see exactly how stupid it is.

"Federer has contributed to 20 grand slams and contributed to 100 tournaments overall."

"Nick Kyrgios contributed to Acapulco in 2019. Alexander Zverev came very close to contributing, but unfortunately did not."

Some people are just obsessed with Slams and think it's all about them. We more knowledgeable tennis fans know differently! :cool:
 

Nadalgaenger

G.O.A.T.
How about they erect a giant statue of their hero in the middle of the stadium?
15252669707216.jpg
 

JMR

Hall of Fame
There is no rule saying only Frenchs can be suitable names. Can you please provide me any link to a RG rule stipulating that only Frenchs have suitable names for the RG court?

This sounds like an argument an extremely naive person would make. Most of the ways in which the world operates cannot be reduced to written rules.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Nadal just got a day job and a nationality change to French, so maybe Nadal is not the best name for Centre Court!

march-2019-venezuela-maiqueta-romain-nadal-french-ambassador-to-on-picture-id1128645148
 

itrium84

Hall of Fame
When is Real Madrid renaming "Santiago Bernabeu" to "Cristiano Ronaldo" or "Zinedine Zidane"?

:cool:
Maybe Messi and Barcelona would be a better example? Because his whole professional career was in that fc?

I mean, CR had significant career before and after Real Madrid.

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Maybe Messi and Barcelona would be a better example? Because his whole professional career was in that fc?

I mean, CR had significant career before and after Real Madrid.

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No, it is not a better example.

Camp Nou is not named after a person.

Also, there is almost a perfect match between the case with the contribution of Bernabeu and that of Chatrier.

It doesn't matter whether he had a "significant career before and after" since the contention is that it is a matter of achievements with the club, and noone can dispute where Ronaldo made the most from his career, just like the fact that Nadal has significant achievements outside of RG doesn't deter from the fact that he is most successful at RG.

So, do you think that it is reasonable to expect Real Madrid to rename their stadium to "Cristiano Ronaldo", and if not why not?

:cool:
 

itrium84

Hall of Fame
No, it is not a better example.

Camp Nou is not named after a person.

Also, there is almost a perfect match between the case with the contribution of Bernabeu and that of Chatrier.

It doesn't matter whether he had a "significant career before and after" since the contention is that it is a matter of achievements with the club, and noone can dispute where Ronaldo made the most from his career, just like the fact that Nadal has significant achievements outside of RG doesn't deter from the fact that he is most successful at RG.

So, do you think that it is reasonable to expect Real Madrid to rename their stadium to "Cristiano Ronaldo", and if not why not?

:cool:

"Reasonable to expect?" No.

Also, beside CR there are dozens of other players that played in that team during his RM career, making your comparison pretty weak. It's generally very dubious to compare team players and solo players in almost any context.

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"Reasonable to expect?" No.

Also, beside CR there are dozens of other players that played in that team during his RM career, making your comparison pretty weak. It's generally very dubious to compare team players and solo players in almost any context.

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I am sorry, but if you say that there are many players of RM that were more successful than CR with the club, you would have to prove that, because I don't think that that is true. The fact that many players played for RM during his time don't make his achievements any less significant.

Also, there are not many individual sports where the competitions are held in huge permanent stadiums with any regularity, so it is a kind of difficult to find an adequate exact match. The truth is that what I suggested is pretty adequate.

The similarities:

Significant career associated with the venue
Significant achievements outside the venue, but incomparable with those associated with the venue
Significant individual recognitions
Both cases of foreign candidate to the country of origin of the venue
Venue named after a person famous with his significant influence over the development of the said sport/club, rather than with his sporting achievements within the sport/club

I think that it is a pretty strong case for comparison.

:cool:
 
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chut

Professional
@Sport just so you know, without Chatrier, Nadal might have about 0 RG.

Chatrier was one of the founder of the open era, being one of the people who decided RG68 to go open. In these days, there was not one organized tour as it is today, there were many privates companies trying to breakthrough, with conflicts in terms of schedule.
Among them, WTT was trying to build a USA oriented team tour (a sort of IPTL but with much bigger ambitions). The money involved was big and the schedule was in conflict with most European clay tournaments happening in spring/summer. Chatrier made the bold move of banning every player in contract with WTT from RG for a few years. That famously resulted in banning Connors in his best year, 74, when he finished undefeated at slams, but also banning Borg twice iirc.
Chatrier ended up victorious and saved most of Euro clay with his move. Without him, RG might have disappeared or turn into a 2nd rate tournaments and the slams might have lost their historical domination of tennis.

He was also head of the ITF from 77 to 91, that is worth 60 slams, so Chatrier wins the slam race easily against Nadal.
So, however you might think from your narrow minded perspective, Chatrier is certainly at least as important as Nadal in RG (and tennis) history.

And he is French and of course, no tournament is going to name a stadium after a foreigner, you can consider it stupid but it's not happening.
 
@Sport just so you know, without Chatrier, Nadal might have about 0 RG.

Chatrier was one of the founder of the open era, being one of the people who decided RG68 to go open. In these days, there was not one organized tour as it is today, there were many privates companies trying to breakthrough, with conflicts in terms of schedule.
Among them, WTT was trying to build a USA oriented team tour (a sort of IPTL but with much bigger ambitions). The money involved was big and the schedule was in conflict with most European clay tournaments happening in spring/summer. Chatrier made the bold move of banning every player in contract with WTT from RG for a few years. That famously resulted in banning Connors in his best year, 74, when he finished undefeated at slams, but also banning Borg twice iirc.
Chatrier ended up victorious and saved most of Euro clay with his move. Without him, RG might have disappeared or turn into a 2nd rate tournaments and the slams might have lost their historical domination of tennis.

He was also head of the ITF from 77 to 91, that is worth 60 slams, so Chatrier wins the slam race easily against Nadal.
So, however you might think from your narrow minded perspective, Chatrier is certainly at least as important as Nadal in RG (and tennis) history.

And he is French and of course, no tournament is going to name a stadium after a foreigner, you can consider it stupid but it's not happening.

Roland Garros was at no point in danger of going anywhere, but your other points are well taken.

:)
 

chut

Professional
Roland Garros was at no point in danger of going anywhere, but your other points are well taken.

:)

Well, that why i said "might" ;)
It's hard to know really, because AO was at a low point in the mid 70's and if WTT had managed to surpass the whole European tour, RG could have also gone the AO way, kinda depleted, old fashioned. The moment half the slams are somehow out of the picture, i'm pretty sure some other tournaments would have try to jump in and fill the place.
But i admit it's all theory
 

BGod

G.O.A.T.
I get the foreigner aspect but think at least the grand stand can be named after Nadal. I mean he's won 11 freaking titles.
 

73west

Semi-Pro
It's name was "court central" until 2001, when it was renamed to "Philippe Chatrier" after important french tennis official, so there's no long history of this name.

I believe Rafael Nadal made most significant mark on this court, of any player at any tennis court in history. I believe that the court should be named "Rafael Nadal" as a reminder for future players and generations, right after Rafa finishes his active singles career.

Would you agree?

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I have no opinion here on Nadal or Chartrier, but I have opinions on the name of courts, and I would say no.
I agree with the line Navratilova took in her argument over the Australian Open and Margaret Court. Having stadia and courts named after you should be about more than how good you were at sport. Those honors should be for people who have used the pedestal sports gave them to make the sport or the world a better place.

Also, I am opposed to naming courts after people when they are still young, or shortly after their careers are over.

Arthur Ashe has a stadium/court named after him at the USO. Pete Sampras does not. Billie Jean King has the whole center. Chris Evert has nothing.
And that's the way it should be, as no disrespect to Sampras or Evert, but because of how much of their lives Ashe and King dedicated to using their tennis fame to make the world better.
 

73west

Semi-Pro
I know.

But he is saying that it is disrespectful to rename the centre court Rafa Nadal rather than Phillipe Chatrier, when Nadal has 11 RG titles and Chatrier 0 RG titles. Nothing disrespectful there unless you are a blind Nadal hater.

To name it after Nadal, you have to take Chartrier's name off the court. That is disrespectful. I can't imagine how anyone can fail to see that.
Randomly calling everyone who disagrees a "Nadal hater" is just a terrible tactic.
 

chut

Professional
I get the foreigner aspect but think at least the grand stand can be named after Nadal. I mean he's won 11 freaking titles.

Second court is already named after Suzanne Lenglen. The new show court might get a name but Noah / Les Mousquetaires as a whole have a better chance than Nadal imo. Their historical significance in France is much greater than Nadal's
Or maybe another lady, but Pierce has little selling points apart from her title here and Mauresmo never played well here. And before that, only Durr won the title at RG but like Pierce, she isn't an iconic figure in France.
 

hoodjem

G.O.A.T.
No disrespectful at all since the former tennis player Phillipe Chatrier has made far less contributions to RG than Nadal. 11 RG > 0 RG. It is not disrespect. It is justice and objectivity.

Even other Frenchmen like Max Decugis have made far bigger contributions to RG than Chatrier. Max Decugis won 8 RG.

But yeah, I suppose unobjectivity and hate can't be cured.
The naming of the court is not in any way about Chatrier's accomplishments as a player. He is not being honored because of his tennis playing accomplishments. (The best he ever did as a player in the French Championships was losing in the second round in 1947.)

It is all about his role and accomplishments as a tennis administrator. "He was president of the French Tennis Federation for 20 years, from 1973 to 1993, and president of the International Tennis Federation for 14 years, from 1977 to 1991."
from https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippe_Chatrier

"As President of the International Tennis Federation and the French Tennis Federation, he staunchly fought for the return of tennis to the Olympic Games, resurrected his native major tournament the French Open into a premier international sporting event, and increased registered tennis players in France from a scant few hundred thousand to a couple million participants. Chatrier was determined to evolve and modernize tennis."
from https://www.tennisfame.com/hall-of-famers/inductees/philippe-chatrier

I believe that name of the court is named after Chatrier mostly because he "resurrected his native major tournament the French Open into a premier international sporting event."

To use a poor analogy, Reagan Airport is not named after Ronald Reagan because Reagan he was a great pilot and holds the record for most planes landed there.

One wonders how great a tennis player Louis Armstrong was?

(For your information, the list of stadia or sports venues around the world named after non-players is extremely long.)
 
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jm1980

Talk Tennis Guru
It would be incredibly distasteful to rename the court, regardless of how many French Opens Nadal wins
 

itrium84

Hall of Fame
There are 3 main counter-arguments here:
1. It's disrespectful
2. Rafa is a foreigner
3. Chatrier deserves court name

While starting this thread, I was aware of all 3, but my perception of their significance wasn't clear, I underestimated it. After reading well explained nuances of every argument against my proposal, I learned some new information and a little bit more about tennis history.

Taking all this into account, I have no choice but to change my mind about initial claim I made. I thank all posters countering my name-change proposal for helping me realize I was wrong.

PS - That Christiano Ronaldo comparison is still total fail, apples and oranges stuff. :)

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Taking all this into account, I have no choice but to change my mind about initial claim I made. I thank all posters countering my name-change proposal for helping me realize I was wrong.

PS - That Christiano Ronaldo comparison is still total fail, apples and oranges stuff. :)

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I specifically selected it for you since I know how much the Spanish-speaking world loves football and how their prejudices about its tradition will make your head explode at the thought of doing the same in football.

Glad that it worked.

:love:
 

itrium84

Hall of Fame
I specifically selected it for you since I know how much the Spanish-speaking world loves football and how their prejudices about its tradition will make your head explode at the thought of doing the same in football.

Glad that it worked.

:love:

Speaking about prejudices:

1. I'm not from Spain and I don't speak Spanish.

2. I don't watch or follow football.

:)

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Speaking about prejudices:

1. I'm not from Spain and I don't speak Spanish.

2. I don't watch or follow football.

:)

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I concluded that since you didn't actually present a case that disproves the points that I made explicitly.

It turns out that you know nothing about the comparison and refuted it based on your fancy and the particularly vague distinction between an individual and a team sport.

Good to know how you argue!

:cool:
 

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
I think they could do something to hgihlight Nadal's place in RG history, but certainly not rename center court. Plenty of courts and building names at vairous GS venues are not ited to nationality. Or they could do nothing and I don't think Nadal would bat an eye with the understood history he has there.
 

axlrose

Professional
No, it is not a better example.

Camp Nou is not named after a person.

Also, there is almost a perfect match between the case with the contribution of Bernabeu and that of Chatrier.

It doesn't matter whether he had a "significant career before and after" since the contention is that it is a matter of achievements with the club, and noone can dispute where Ronaldo made the most from his career, just like the fact that Nadal has significant achievements outside of RG doesn't deter from the fact that he is most successful at RG.

So, do you think that it is reasonable to expect Real Madrid to rename their stadium to "Cristiano Ronaldo", and if not why not?

:cool:
Because C Ronaldo is not the best player in Real history. Di Stefano is.
 
Because C Ronaldo is not the best player in Real history. Di Stefano is.

That is a highly debatable claim.

That is like saying that Garrincha is the best football player of Brasil of all time.

Either way, "Santiago Bernabeu" is not renamed to "Alfredo di Stefano" either.

:cool:
 

axlrose

Professional
That is a highly debatable claim.

That is like saying that Garrincha is the best football player of Brasil of all time.

Either way, "Santiago Bernabeu" is not renamed to "Alfredo di Stefano" either.

:cool:

Di Stefano contributed a lot in all 5 consecutive Champions Cups of Real (plus some extra finals). Ronaldo does not.

Di Stefano's Real did not need ridiculous luck and dirty job from UEFA to win. Ronaldo's Real does need.

Di Stefano's Real also played in a stronger era! (strong era: I bet Fedr fans like this term). Ronaldo's Real wins in the weakest era of all time.

The stadium was named after Santiago Bernabeu for a very simple reason: no matter how great Di Stefano was, that's Bernabeu who brought him to Real (you should read more about this story, how Real stole Di Stefano from Barcelona). He also brought Puskas, Kopa... to Real, turned Real into the most fearsome team during that period.

Besides, Di Stefano was considered to be an Argentine though he later played for Spain.

Similar to that, the greatest name in Milan AC is Silvio Berlusconi though countless legends have played for the Rossonerri.

))
 
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