Should teams be allowed to field players from away?

[goober]

I was looking at the Socal Women's team that won 4.0 Nationals this year. The team was made up of players that live very far from each other.

Newport Beach, Pomona, Mission Hills, Westlake Village, Santa Margarita, San Gabriel, Azusa and Rolling Hills were some of the cities represented on one single team. If you are familiar with socal, these areas are very far apart covering 3 different counties: Los Angeles County, Orange County and Inland Empire. The population probably of this entire area is around 18-20 million. Some of these cities are an hour to hour and half drive away from each other.

Obviously this team was put together to find the very top players with 4.0 ratings all over Socal and make a run at Nationals. Ok I understand you need all stars for Nationals, but this seems to be taking it to the extreme.

Question: should there be any geographical limits on where teams can recruit players from? In less populated areas- probably not, but in densely populated metro areas, this seems almost unfair.

 

[JLyon]

Texas has a 50 mile rule for their cities, such as Houston, Dallas, Austin, San Antonio, etc...

 

[cak]

I believe the senior season in Hawaii runs in the winter time. I remember being in Maui one Feb and subbing for someone in a senior team practice. Most of that team's players were from the mainland, playing senior season while wintering in Hawaii, then going home and playing in their home states for another season. I want that life.

 

[brad1730]

Just my uninformed opinion... but if you make it to Nationals you probably have a ringer or 2 on your team that have been beating up on teams all along the way. It seems to me that this is just the natural progression of that process.

 

[kendall22]

I think a team loses all honor if it makes Sectionals. A majority of the team would be truly a level up at that point.

 

[Cindysphinx]

You know, I think teams should be able to field players from wherever they want, with no geographic limits.

The reason is that those who want to cheat or want to go to extremes to win a pen or a towel should be allowed to make fools of themselves.

This season, I joined a team that was hoping to go to nationals. I wasn't hell-bent on going to nationals; I just needed a better team than my old one, and I looked forward to partnering with some good players.

On balance, the experience wasn't that great. There wasn't that level of comraderie that makes league tennis fun. There was behavior that might not rise to the level of back-stabbing, but it was behavior clearly motivated by the desire to win. There was a clique of players who believed they were The Chosen Ones and acted like it. It was kind of icky.

I have another friend who left our mixed team this season (there was confusion about whether the team would dissolve, so she justifiably sought out other opporunities). She joined a mixed team run by a captain who is All Business and who usually wins the division. I asked her how it is going. She says she is unsure this captain even knows who she is, and she is only going to play two matches. She wants to come back to our team, and I hope it happens next season.

Hey, some people might like all that goes with being on one of these Superteams. Me, I like playing with my friends, getting a decent number of matches, and taking my lumps if our opponents are stronger. The Superteams can have the ink pen.

 

[ZhengJieisagoddess]

I haven't paid a lot of attention to Adult League tennis, and so it's a very limited experience observation; but virtually everything I read about it is not that encouraging. It seems, at first glance, that many participants seem to have lost sight of the fact that tennis should be fun.

 

[Inner Game]

What does it really matter?

Here we go again....recruiting, sand bagging, stacking.....sounds like a typical USTA league....

OK tennis players here's the truth about "USTA Leagues" The USTA actually wants all you under achievers to play tennis on the NTRP scale......2.0-5.0 "WOW, my 2.5 team went to the nationals" I'm really good and so is my team....

Face the facts Jack! League tennis is around to bring big $$$$ into tennis....If you actually had to put it on the line against players of ever skill level 90% of all players would stop playing.

So all the captains that waste time plotting, scheming (sometimes a year in advance lol) get a life...unless your playing Open tennis its all relative....so if collecting "National T-shirts" so you can walk around your local club like a banshee rooster is what you into....well its very SAD...just look over your shoulder at the 14 year old kid with 1 racket and dirty tennis shoes...he can probably kick your arse!

If its fun the USTA wanted they would make it Team Tennis.....but the $$$$ are driving league tennis...


For what its worth!!

 

[JoelDali]

I think a team loses all honor if it makes Sectionals. A majority of the team would be truly a level up at that point.

Yeop.

All teams that make sectionals should be immediately DQ'd and give up their USTA card.

They obviously didn't get there legitimately.

:???:

 

[Topaz]

Like Cindy, I don't think there should be geographical limits.

It all evens out in the end. Plus it gives people more playing opportunities if they are willing to travel.

A lady in my area splits her time between here and FL...and she plays USTA in both places. And, I think she should be able to do that.

 

[Topaz]

I haven't paid a lot of attention to Adult League tennis, and so it's a very limited experience observation; but virtually everything I read about it is not that encouraging. It seems, at first glance, that many participants seem to have lost sight of the fact that tennis should be fun.

You know, the negative side certainly gets more attention than the positive.

There are *many* USTA opportunities in our area, and I think you'd probably really enjoy playing.

 

[JavierLW]

I was looking at the Socal Women's team that won 4.0 Nationals this year. The team was made up of players that live very far from each other.

Newport Beach, Pomona, Mission Hills, Westlake Village, Santa Margarita, San Gabriel, Azusa and Rolling Hills were some of the cities represented on one single team. If you are familiar with socal, these areas are very far apart covering 3 different counties: Los Angeles County, Orange County and Inland Empire. The population probably of this entire area is around 18-20 million. Some of these cities are an hour to hour and half drive away from each other.

Obviously this team was put together to find the very top players with 4.0 ratings all over Socal and make a run at Nationals. Ok I understand you need all stars for Nationals, but this seems to be taking it to the extreme.

Question: should there be any geographical limits on where teams can recruit players from? In less populated areas- probably not, but in densely populated metro areas, this seems almost unfair.

I think there are more important shenigan's going on then worrying about where the players happen to come from.....

Life isnt always fair, at least they are not necessarily cheating. (unless they are but that's a whole other matter)

I hate when they make rules that really only concern what a very tiny fraction of the players are doing.

And how is unfair? Just because you didnt have the resources to do that and you cant compete with them?

Now maybe if the league is arranging this for them that's a different story (league officials need to stay out of "fixing" who wins these things IMO), but if some captain knows a bunch of people and they are not cheating it's not really a matter of being unfair.

 

[10sguy]

Here we go again....recruiting, sand bagging, stacking.....sounds like a typical USTA league....

OK tennis players here's the truth about "USTA Leagues" The USTA actually wants all you under achievers to play tennis on the NTRP scale......2.0-5.0 "WOW, my 2.5 team went to the nationals" I'm really good and so is my team....

Face the facts Jack! League tennis is around to bring big $$$$ into tennis....If you actually had to put it on the line against players of ever skill level 90% of all players would stop playing.

So all the captains that waste time plotting, scheming (sometimes a year in advance lol) get a life...unless your playing Open tennis its all relative....so if collecting "National T-shirts" so you can walk around your local club like a banshee rooster is what you into....well its very SAD...just look over your shoulder at the 14 year old kid with 1 racket and dirty tennis shoes...he can probably kick your arse!

If its fun the USTA wanted they would make it Team Tennis.....but the $$$$ are driving league tennis...


For what its worth!!

Naysayers like you are a distinct minority! USTA Leagues are there NOT to make money directly; they are there to provide what the players want, fun/competition/comraderie, etc. Sure, some go overboard in their quest to win . . . but doesn't that happen in all walks of life? The "money angle" is simply codified in USTA's mantra to "Promote and Develop the Growth of Tennis." The "growth of tennis" results in racquet, ball, apparel, etc. sales. When USA tennis grows (and Americans are also at the top tier of the men's & women's pro games), US Open viewership and attendance increases significantly, resulting in greater TV ad revenues. Those resources then flow (mostly) to the 17 USTA Sections (all are non-profit organizations) where they're plowed into programs to "grow the game." Get it?

 

[JavierLW]

Here we go again....recruiting, sand bagging, stacking.....sounds like a typical USTA league....

OK tennis players here's the truth about "USTA Leagues" The USTA actually wants all you under achievers to play tennis on the NTRP scale......2.0-5.0 "WOW, my 2.5 team went to the nationals" I'm really good and so is my team....

Face the facts Jack! League tennis is around to bring big $$$$ into tennis....If you actually had to put it on the line against players of ever skill level 90% of all players would stop playing.

So all the captains that waste time plotting, scheming (sometimes a year in advance lol) get a life...unless your playing Open tennis its all relative....so if collecting "National T-shirts" so you can walk around your local club like a banshee rooster is what you into....well its very SAD...just look over your shoulder at the 14 year old kid with 1 racket and dirty tennis shoes...he can probably kick your arse!

If its fun the USTA wanted they would make it Team Tennis.....but the $$$$ are driving league tennis...


For what its worth!!

It's not worth much! It's sort of just insane rambling.

Hey I certainly dont think the USTA is perfect and in a lot of cases the people that runs these leagues have their priority's all screwed up.

And it's true I know lots of coordinators if they had their way they see people moving up as a BAD THING, because they as so obsessed with getting their "6.5 Combo League" off the ground and are disappointed that they cant find enough 3.0 players, rather then acknowledge that players do actually improve and get better.

And there is a drive to get players register for as many leagues as possible.

But a lot of the money from the registration fees go to Teaching and Education Foundations that are outside or affiliated with the USTA.

Im not sure about all of them, but some of them actually teach kids tennis (the ones who cant afford to join rich suburban snobby clubs). If you're crying about why we're supposedly not dominate in tennis (which is sort of a crock), you could see how that's a benefit. (more kids playing tennis = more potential great players)

But whatever your rambling about is insane. Whatever we do is not a waste of time. It's what WE are doing. What would you rather do, care about your own game or your team, or watch tennis on TV???

The problem I have is you are claiming there is no value in the NTRP system basically and that's a load of crap.

Anyone knows that if you want to get better, you need to play weaker players, stronger players, and players that give you a good match.

It actually takes something to win those close matches no matter what level you think someone is at so that's the value of the whole thing. You're argument isnt any better then whatever argument some cheater has.

 

[CrocodileRock]

Texas has a 50 mile rule for their cities, such as Houston, Dallas, Austin, San Antonio, etc...

Let me clarify that a little jlyon. the four largest cities - Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, and Austin - can have at most one player from more than 50 miles away. All of the smaller cities, can have at most two players who live more than 50 miles away. This year we had two players from 100 miles away. It's a pretty good drive just to play league, so they only came in a few times.

And congrats to your guys for their awesome showing at nationals.

 

[Inner Game]

It's not worth much! It's sort of just insane rambling.

Hey I certainly dont think the USTA is perfect and in a lot of cases the people that runs these leagues have their priority's all screwed up.

And it's true I know lots of coordinators if they had their way they see people moving up as a BAD THING, because they as so obsessed with getting their "6.5 Combo League" off the ground and are disappointed that they cant find enough 3.0 players, rather then acknowledge that players do actually improve and get better.

And there is a drive to get players register for as many leagues as possible.

But a lot of the money from the registration fees go to Teaching and Education Foundations that are outside or affiliated with the USTA.

Im not sure about all of them, but some of them actually teach kids tennis (the ones who cant afford to join rich suburban snobby clubs). If you're crying about why we're supposedly not dominate in tennis (which is sort of a crock), you could see how that's a benefit. (more kids playing tennis = more potential great players)

But whatever your rambling about is insane. Whatever we do is not a waste of time. It's what WE are doing. What would you rather do, care about your own game or your team, or watch tennis on TV???

The problem I have is you are claiming there is no value in the NTRP system basically and that's a load of crap.

Anyone knows that if you want to get better, you need to play weaker players, stronger players, and players that give you a good match.

It actually takes something to win those close matches no matter what level you think someone is at so that's the value of the whole thing. You're argument isnt any better then whatever argument some cheater has.

I agree on the concept to help make tennis more popular in the USA...but has it really done that? Tennis had its appogee in the 70's.....was the USTA promoting tennis through USTA leagues...NADA....its been all down hill since the 70's for tennis in the USA both in quality and popularity....Maybe people know deep down inside that a NTRP championship really doesn't mean much....Thats the problem with Americans now-days....everyone has to be a winner...and everything has to be a win/win event....in reality there is never a win/win event.....someone wins and someone loses....
Toughness has long disappeared from American tennis....but if all you guys want to brag about "going to the Nationals" go right ahead....I have been there before and the experience was fun....but it didn't really mean much...

 

[JavierLW]

I agree on the concept to help make tennis more popular in the USA...but has it really done that? Tennis had its appogee in the 70's.....was the USTA promoting tennis through USTA leagues...NADA....its been all down hill since the 70's for tennis in the USA both in quality and popularity....Maybe people know deep down inside that a NTRP championship really doesn't mean much....Thats the problem with Americans now-days....everyone has to be a winner...and everything has to be a win/win event....in reality there is never a win/win event.....someone wins and someone loses....
Toughness has long disappeared from American tennis....but if all you guys want to brag about "going to the Nationals" go right ahead....I have been there before and the experience was fun....but it didn't really mean much...

Im not sure what you are basing your "tennis has been on a decline since the 70's" theory on. Do you have to back that up?

That's a lot of nonsense. Apparently you must of missed out on the 90's.

What DO YOU DO, that really means that much? I dont think Im going to listen to some guy that doesn't care about where he is. Are you basing your whole existence on what you are watching on TV concerning people you dont even know, or do you care about what YOU are actually doing???

I hate sandbagging as much as anyone but your post doesnt make much sense and it doesnt offer too many solutions.

Sure if someone ONLY wants to win that is kind of screwy.

But what you are talking about is a world where some players will have NO chance at winning, so you totally are dismissing the value of competing in a match that you "might win or you might lose".

In which case if you are blaming the NTRP system and you dont value different skill levels, then you should not be on a rant against sandbagging then, you should support sandbagging!!! (because what's the difference?)

 

[Inner Game]

Im not sure what you are basing your "tennis has been on a decline since the 70's" theory on. Do you have to back that up?

That's a lot of nonsense. Apparently you must of missed out on the 90's.

What DO YOU DO, that really means that much? I dont think Im going to listen to some guy that doesn't care about where he is. Are you basing your whole existence on what you are watching on TV concerning people you dont even know, or do you care about what YOU are actually doing???

I hate sandbagging as much as anyone but your post doesnt make much sense and it doesnt offer too many solutions.

Sure if someone ONLY wants to win that is kind of screwy.

But what you are talking about is a world where some players will have NO chance at winning, so you totally are dismissing the value of competing in a match that you "might win or you might lose".

In which case if you are blaming the NTRP system and you dont value different skill levels, then you should not be on a rant against sandbagging then, you should support sandbagging!!! (because what's the difference?)

Drive around and look at the local courts almost empty....in the 70's during and after the 4 majors courts use to be flooded with tennis players...In the USA its a fact tennis has declined since the 70's...have you had your head buried in the sand?
Let me take a wild guess...your one of those that really puts a lot of time and effort in planning the perfect USTA team....and I dare guess your a captain? Also remember before you flame me....just remember everyone deserves a say or opinion...
As far as sandbagging is concerned there shouldn't be any as I support Open tennis with no level segregation. Thats real tennis....Getting your butt kicked builds character and teaches you how to win.....

 

[Inner Game]

Im not sure what you are basing your "tennis has been on a decline since the 70's" theory on. Do you have to back that up?

That's a lot of nonsense. Apparently you must of missed out on the 90's.

What DO YOU DO, that really means that much? I dont think Im going to listen to some guy that doesn't care about where he is. Are you basing your whole existence on what you are watching on TV concerning people you dont even know, or do you care about what YOU are actually doing???

I hate sandbagging as much as anyone but your post doesnt make much sense and it doesnt offer too many solutions.

Sure if someone ONLY wants to win that is kind of screwy.

But what you are talking about is a world where some players will have NO chance at winning, so you totally are dismissing the value of competing in a match that you "might win or you might lose".

In which case if you are blaming the NTRP system and you dont value different skill levels, then you should not be on a rant against sandbagging then, you should support sandbagging!!! (because what's the difference?)

Drive around and look at the local courts almost empty....in the 70's during and after the 4 majors courts use to be flooded with tennis players...In the USA its a fact tennis has declined since the 70's...have you had your head buried in the sand?
Let me take a wild guess...your one of those that really puts a lot of time and effort in planning the perfect USTA team....and I dare guess your a captain? Also remember before you flame me....just remember everyone deserves a say or opinion...
As far as sandbagging is concerned there shouldn't be any as I support Open tennis with no level segregation. Thats real tennis....Getting your butt kicked builds character and teaches you how to win.....

 

[JavierLW]

Drive around and look at the local courts almost empty....in the 70's during and after the 4 majors courts use to be flooded with tennis players...In the USA its a fact tennis has declined since the 70's...have you had your head buried in the sand?
Let me take a wild guess...your one of those that really puts a lot of time and effort in planning the perfect USTA team....and I dare guess your a captain? Also remember before you flame me....just remember everyone deserves a say or opinion...
As far as sandbagging is concerned there shouldn't be any as I support Open tennis with no level segregation. Thats real tennis....Getting your butt kicked builds character and teaches you how to win.....

You only have 4 major courts? Do you live in the boonies somewhere???

Or are you saying that you only filled the courts before and after the slams in the 70's? (doesnt seem like a big deal to me, seems kind of lame, I see full courts all the time when it's nice enough out)

I think your logic is flawed because you dont seem to have any actual facts associated with them:

1) You are assuming tennis courts everywhere across the USA are empty just because you drove around your local area and saw some empty tennis courts.

2) You assume that if there is a decline it's because of some reason you've made up even though you have no evidence to that fact. (have you done interviews, went door to door, asked people why they are not playing tennis???)

I think that about covers it.

If you like Open level so much then play open level, it's your choice.

We live in a society where we have choices.

If the level system sucked so badly then it wouldnt have as many participants as it does so the bulk of them must enjoy it even if you want to make them look bad.

 

[Inner Game]

You only have 4 major courts? Do you live in the boonies somewhere???

Or are you saying that you only filled the courts before and after the slams in the 70's? (doesnt seem like a big deal to me, seems kind of lame, I see full courts all the time when it's nice enough out)

I think your logic is flawed because you dont seem to have any actual facts associated with them:

1) You are assuming tennis courts everywhere across the USA are empty just because you drove around your local area and saw some empty tennis courts.

2) You assume that if there is a decline it's because of some reason you've made up even though you have no evidence to that fact. (have you done interviews, went door to door, asked people why they are not playing tennis???)

I think that about covers it.

If you like Open level so much then play open level, it's your choice.

We live in a society where we have choices.

If the level system sucked so badly then it wouldnt have as many participants as it does so the bulk of them must enjoy it even if you want to make them look bad.

Take a look around...there are dozens of tennis companies that have folded do to lack of demand....world wide tennis may be up ....but in the USA its down....and btw I did play open division even when my game slipped do to getting older....did I feel bad about a college kid beating me....yah...but I still enjoy the challenge of trying to win.....
You better stick to beating up on players who aren't as skilled as you....

As far as facts go....just research it.....everyone knows when tennis's heyday was in the USA....

I'm out on this subject forever....as you don't have a clue

 

[Topaz]

Inner Game, I think that really depends on where you live...around here we have tons of courts, and very often they are packed. Plenty of places to go buy tennis gear, too, though it would always be nice to have more!

 

[Inner Game]

Your lucky Topaz....you must be in Florida, California or Texas?

Send some players farther North..

 

[Cindysphinx]

Your lucky Topaz....you must be in Florida, California or Texas?

Send some players farther North..

No, Topaz and I are in Metro DC. And there is tremendous interest in tennis such that courts are busy whenever I want to play.

There aren't many tennis stores, but that is due to the Internet crowding them out. That's a pity, because it means you have to buy shoes without trying them on.

 

[JavierLW]

There aren't many tennis stores, but that is due to the Internet crowding them out. That's a pity, because it means you have to buy shoes without trying them on.

Right, that's a trend that you can say is happening to almost any sort of business where you sell a niche product.

Not to mention that due to crazy demands from manufacturer's, it's hard to maintain a smaller tennis store these days.

Like did you know if you sell one of the Head White Youtek models, they "make" you carry all versions of it? And if you want to sell Roddick's racquet, they make you carry all FIVE versions of it, and you have to buy in a lot of 100?

I walked into the local tennis store one day and it was wall to wall full of Pure Drives and the shop owner was pissed.

It's hard to run a shop these days in a lot of places, there it too much overhead (high property taxes, etc.....). And when you are dealing with tennis equipment much of it is "price fixed" so you have a limited amount of profit to deal with.

There's not a whole lot of profit to be had in some items like shoes, etc..., unless you're able to sell a high quantity.

Anyway, that's another silly argument by InnerGame.

I remember in the 80's we had more tennis stores. But we also had the corner grocery store, the corner family owned drugstore, the small neighborhood movie theatre, etc....

 

[10sjunkie]

Interesting article. It says that tennis is up 43% over the last 8 years!

http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS140691+19-Mar-2009+PRN20090319

 

[10sjunkie]

One more thing. I don't live in California, Florida or Texas. We have a ton of courts in my city and they are always packed...not just with league play, but with lessons and social play.

 

[sureshs]

Here we go again....recruiting, sand bagging, stacking.....sounds like a typical USTA league....

OK tennis players here's the truth about "USTA Leagues" The USTA actually wants all you under achievers to play tennis on the NTRP scale......2.0-5.0 "WOW, my 2.5 team went to the nationals" I'm really good and so is my team....

Face the facts Jack! League tennis is around to bring big $$$$ into tennis....If you actually had to put it on the line against players of ever skill level 90% of all players would stop playing.

So all the captains that waste time plotting, scheming (sometimes a year in advance lol) get a life...unless your playing Open tennis its all relative....so if collecting "National T-shirts" so you can walk around your local club like a banshee rooster is what you into....well its very SAD...just look over your shoulder at the 14 year old kid with 1 racket and dirty tennis shoes...he can probably kick your arse!

If its fun the USTA wanted they would make it Team Tennis.....but the $$$$ are driving league tennis...


For what its worth!!

And if the 14 year old went against his age competitors world wide, he would get his ass kicked. Most likely, the 14 year old will stop playing after high school and college and grow a belly and watch TV. I would much rather take the older players who manage to put in some tennis to maintain their health despite their jobs and family, whether it is a 2.5 or a 5.0 level.

 

[sureshs]

Right, that's a trend that you can say is happening to almost any sort of business where you sell a niche product.

Not to mention that due to crazy demands from manufacturer's, it's hard to maintain a smaller tennis store these days.

Like did you know if you sell one of the Head White Youtek models, they "make" you carry all versions of it? And if you want to sell Roddick's racquet, they make you carry all FIVE versions of it, and you have to buy in a lot of 100?

I walked into the local tennis store one day and it was wall to wall full of Pure Drives and the shop owner was pissed.

It's hard to run a shop these days in a lot of places, there it too much overhead (high property taxes, etc.....). And when you are dealing with tennis equipment much of it is "price fixed" so you have a limited amount of profit to deal with.

There's not a whole lot of profit to be had in some items like shoes, etc..., unless you're able to sell a high quantity.

Anyway, that's another silly argument by InnerGame.

I remember in the 80's we had more tennis stores. But we also had the corner grocery store, the corner family owned drugstore, the small neighborhood movie theatre, etc....

My pro shop also has a web site thru which most of the business comes in.

Small and local is nostalgic, but prices and variety are important, and mom and pop stores often are prejudiced and employ only who they like, unlike larger chains whose recruitment is broad based and subject to regulation.