Should the rankings be "frozen"?

?

  • Yes

    Votes: 48 47.1%
  • No

    Votes: 42 41.2%
  • Not sure

    Votes: 11 10.8%
  • Other

    Votes: 1 1.0%

  • Total voters
    102

skaj

Hall of Fame
Well you mentioned names in op, so obviously you are not neutral...

You ask me to find time to inspect your posts, but ask me to answer question I already did...

Justice? There is nothing unjustified in ATP keeping 52 weeks rolling, as they do according to rules...
Names of the current number ones in the context I wrote, and seeing the comments - I was right.

I don't ask you to inspect my post, I asked you not to make judgments based on something you don't know.

Yes, there is a lot of unjustified in ATP keeping the ranking alive, I think we have mentioned many reasons in this thread.
 

vladap

Semi-Pro
Plus I think Djokovic fans will not be happy if Djokovic is gifted the award in that fashion, because they'll have to put up with everyone saying he doesn't deserve it.
And given that it'd break the tie with Rafa and Federer for year-end-#1s, the outrage will be bigger than anything we've ever seen.
3 titles, 1 Slam, 18-0, yeah totally undeserved
 

Sport

G.O.A.T.
3 titles, 1 Slam, 18-0, yeah totally undeserved
The Year End #1 award is given to the best player of 2020 as a whole, not only of January. If only 2 of 12 months are played, no one will receive any Year End #1 award. Djokovic winning the AO is not an indicative that he will be YE #1, as he won the AO both in 2013 and 2019 and then failed to achieve the YE #1.

Of course it would be totally undeserved.
 

vladap

Semi-Pro
The Year End #1 award is given to the best player of 2020 as a whole, not only of January. If only 2 of 12 months are played, no one will receive any Year End #1 award. Djokovic winning the AO is not an indicative that he will be YE #1, as he won the AO both in 2013 and 2019 and then failed to achieve the YE #1.

Of course it would be totally undeserved.
No. The Year End #1 award, as its name suggests, is given to the player who finishes first at the end of that particular year. You or me may like it or not, but if no matches are played by the end of this year Djokovic will be that player
 

skaj

Hall of Fame
No. The Year End #1 award, as its name suggests, is given to the player who finishes first at the end of that particular year. You or me may like it or not, but if no matches are played by the end of this year Djokovic will be that player
How do you know that? Are you the head of ATP?
 

ledwix

Hall of Fame
The Year End #1 award is given to the best player of 2020 as a whole, not only of January. If only 2 of 12 months are played, no one will receive any Year End #1 award. Djokovic winning the AO is not an indicative that he will be YE #1, as he won the AO both in 2013 and 2019 and then failed to achieve the YE #1.

Of course it would be totally undeserved.
Well, who else gives off a better indication that they "will be YE#1"? Djokovic has as good as an argument as anyone by far.

If there "will be" a YE#1, then as of right now it's Djokovic.
 

skaj

Hall of Fame
Well, who else gives off a better indication that they "will be YE#1"? Djokovic has as good as an argument as anyone by far.

If there "will be" a YE#1, then as of right now it's Djokovic.
There's no "arguments" here, this is not about indication, predictions and probabilities, it's about ranking. Tennis ranking. No tennis, no ranking.
 

DSH

Legend
You guys are missing the point. If the whole tennis season is really cancelled for the year then it means that **** has hit the fan and the main question should be, will fed, Nadal and djokovic be free of the virus? If they do contract it, given the apparent lingering effects of the virus even after "recovery", it's likely they will never play at the same level again.
Post Mono Federer still won many more Majors!
:sneaky:
 

Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
like i sad, if it is not possible to have big tournaments where they are move the temporary where they can be played.
The only thing to do to salvage a season is to turn the clock back to 1959, select a small group of top pros, maybe 12 like in 1959, play a small group of tournaments at major venues, cancel the normal season.
 

Sport

G.O.A.T.
No. The Year End #1 award, as its name suggests, is given to the player who finishes first at the end of that particular year. You or me may like it or not, but if no matches are played by the end of this year Djokovic will be that player
It is called "Year End #1" not "Two Months End #1". Can' you see the difference between one year and two months? No one would be awarded the YE #1 if the tennis season is suspended, no matter if Djokovic was leading in February, because the tennis season was canceled. If the tennis season is suspended 10 of 12 months, there is no Year End #1, don't be ridiculous.

Chess refutes your ridiculous argument. Karpov-Kasparov World Chess Championship of 1984. Karpov was leading 5-3 Kasparov and only needed 1 more win to achieve the title. Yet, the match had been expended over 5 months, and Karpov had lost 10 kilos in the process. The World Chess Championship was suspended adding health reasons (the players had been playing for too long and were exhausted). Was Karpov awarded the WC title for being leading 5-3? Nope, because the tournament was canceled. Analogously. Djokovic is not going to achieve the YE #1 despite leading in Febraury if the rest of the season is canceled. If the season is canceled, so is the YE #1.

Deal with it. No one is gonna gift DjokovIc the "Year End #1" for one month if the rest of the season gets canceled.
 
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Sport

G.O.A.T.
Well, who else gives off a better indication that they "will be YE#1"? Djokovic has as good as an argument as anyone by far.

If there "will be" a YE#1, then as of right now it's Djokovic.
Untestable, therefore unacceptable. No, it won't be Djokovic necessarily, being leading at the beginning of the season is not the same than being leading at the final stage of the season. He won the AO in 2013 and 2019 and didn't end up as YE #1. There is no YE #1 in the hypothetical scenario that the rest of the season is canceled. No one is gonna gift Djokovic a YE #1 if 10 out of 12 months are not played. It is called Year End #1" not "Two Months End #1".

Chess refutes your ridiculous argument. Karpov-Kasparov World Chess Championshio of 1984. Karpov was leading 5-3 Kasparov and only needed 1 more win to achieve the title. Yet, the match had been expended over 5 months, and Karpov had lost 10 kilos in the process. The World Chess Championship was suspended adding health reasons (the players had been playing for too long and were exhausted). Was Karpov awarded the WC title for being leading 5-3? Nope, because the tournament was canceled. Analogously. Djokovic is not going to achieve the YE #1 despite leading in Febraury if the rest of the season is canceled. If the season is canceled, so is the YE #1.
 
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lucky13

Rookie
Nadal finished #1 in 2013 without even playing the AO.
Winning the AO tells us almost nothing about who will finish #1.
In fact Nadal has finished the year-end-#1 on 5 occasions, and he didn't win the AO in any of those years.
1 - Rafa only won once AO so that is no indication.

2 - Rafa has never finished # 1 two years in a row!

3 - Nole has never had as big lead, right before IW, over Nadal in Rafa´s # 1 seasons as now.

4 - their w / l start of the year is more in Nole´s advantage now than in any of the 5 years when rafa was no1 in the end.

also in 2013, rafa played small tournaments and reached up to 900 points up to IW. 1600p behind Nole. and had 12-1 w / l. now he is 2055 p behind Nole and has 13/3 w / l (Nole is on an 18-0 streak and so good start he had only in 2011).
 

Belgrad13

Rookie
No. The Year End #1 award, as its name suggests, is given to the player who finishes first at the end of that particular year. You or me may like it or not, but if no matches are played by the end of this year Djokovic will be that player
He is the best player of 2020 by a lot so far with or without a trophy is irrelevant. Period.
 

Belgrad13

Rookie
Well, who else gives off a better indication that they "will be YE#1"? Djokovic has as good as an argument as anyone by far.

If there "will be" a YE#1, then as of right now it's Djokovic.
Djokovic is the best player of 2020. He has the most points. Co-No 1 is the virus himself.
 

ewiewp

Professional
If more tournaments are to be canceled, wouldn't it be fair to stop with counting weeks at number one, in the top10, top100 etc?

People who are not fans of Djokovic and Barty are welcome to comment too. :giggle:
Either way, what a great timing for Federer to take an injury break. :-D
 

ewiewp

Professional
Anyway, it looks like this year's YE#1 will carry less weight.

Darn. That elusive open era record of 6 YE#1 !
 

Tennis_Hands

Bionic Poster
Anyway, it looks like this year's YE#1 will carry less weight.

Darn. That elusive open era record of 6 YE#1 !
It just makes easier to see what everyone knows: that the incredibly weak competition amounts to records being broken left right and center, and now the virus kills the little delusion that these things are to be taken only as numbers. It actually forces people to introduce real life variables, and that is something that most people that have no idea from tennis dread. Something that the sensible analysts of the game knew all along.

It is similar to the recession that we are facing that is sped up/exacerbated by the economic turmoil caused by the virus.

 

ewiewp

Professional
It just makes easier to see what everyone knows: that the incredibly weak competition amounts to records being broken left right and center, and now the virus kills the little delusion that these things are to be taken only as numbers. It actually forces people to introduce real life variables, and that is something that most people that have no idea from tennis dread. Something that the sensible analysts of the game knew all along.

It is similar to the recession that we are facing that is sped up/exacerbated by the economic turmoil caused by the virus.

The records since early 2000s shouldn't be compared directly to those of different eras like 70s-90s.
It's not weak era. It is just different system. Tennis since early 2000s is very different from past eras', IMHO.

Homogeneous surfaces, different and top seeds protecting ranking/tournament systems and so on.
There's just inflation in all records. Not just top 3.
For example David Ferrer is on top of many all time greats in consecutive slam quarter finals records.

But I would still use YE#1 record to compare with other eras.
Sampras in open era, Gonzalez and Laver in pre-Open era.
More protective ranking system since 2003 might be a bit of factor but
a long term domination is tough in all eras, IMHO.

:unsure:
 
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Tennis_Hands

Bionic Poster
The records since early 2000s shouldn't be compared directly to those of different eras like 70s-90s.
It's not weak era. It is just different system. Tennis since early 2000s is very different from past eras', IMHO.

Homogeneous surfaces, different and top seeds protecting ranking/tournament systems and so on.
There's just inflation in all records. Not just top 3.
For example David Ferrer is on top of many all time greats in consecutive slam quarter finals records.

But I would still use YE#1 record to compare with other eras.
Sampras in open era, Gonzalez and Laver in pre-Open era.
More protective ranking system since 2003 might be a bit of factor but
a long term domination is tough in all eras, IMHO.

:unsure:
No, there is a distinctive difference based not only on the slowing down of the surfaces. We now have (since a number of years actually) an unprecedented situation of no younger ATGs rising to the top. The last young ATG generation that has risen to the top is the Nadal/Djokovic one, and it has been 13-15! years since that happened. At no other time in history of tennis has that been the case. The two phenomenons (that one and the general change of conditions) should not be mixed. There is a clear divide between now and the years prior to 2013.

As for the YE #1, it has been all but compromised for this year definitely, but, in the context of the ultra weak competition also for 2017 and 2018, where the main opponent of the guy who won that prize was running a limited schedule due to age (can't get much more obvious than that), and a year where, again a number of factors influenced an outcome in a race that can be described only as "who will fail/be hampered more within a disastrous competition".

 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
According to the ATP website, points have dropped off for those players scheduled to defend any this week eg. at Indian Wells so it doesn't look as if there is currently any move to freeze the rankings. Whether this will change at some point, I don't know.

 
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I Am Finnish

Talk Tennis Guru
According to the ATP website, points have dropped off for those players scheduled to defend any this week eg. at Indian Wells so it doesn't look as if there is currently any move to freeze the rankings. Whether this will change at some point, I don't know.

Like i said Yesterday

The points should be dropped only for the players who had pulled out cuz of personal issues or being injuried :)
 

BrooklynNY

Hall of Fame
One thing about whatever they do, 2 active players fighting for the all time weeks at #1 record(Federer and Djokovic) are both on the players council, along with Nadal.

They will have to agree on something - which will be interesting.
 

DSH

Legend
One thing about whatever they do, 2 active players fighting for the all time weeks at #1 record(Federer and Djokovic) are both on the players council, along with Nadal.

They will have to agree on something - which will be interesting.
Federer will like to:


Djokovic's weeks as number 1!
:happydevil:
 

Julian Houston

Semi-Pro
It isn't fair to let Djokovic get a year of number 1 free if tennis is cancelled for this year.

Nadal could overtake him in IW-Miami, Barcelona, Monte Carlo, Madrid, Wimbledon.

The weeks should be frozen until the week play resumes. Djokovic will be still number 1 likely on the day play resumes.
 

Mike Sams

G.O.A.T.
It’s hilarious most people are complaining because Djokovic gets extra weeks at number 1. Y’all do realize he only had like 45 points to defend there and based on current form was a big favorite to gain a lot of points, right?
I don't know about current form. Saving MPs shows he's nothing close to unstoppable. He's just lucky the competition is a pool of ****.
 

Mike Sams

G.O.A.T.
I think the Slam count is by far the most important. Nobody gives a sh*t about weeks at number 1 other than obsessed fan boys. If there's no tennis played for the next several months, that would hurt Nadal and Djokovic more than anything. For all we know the season might be cancelled altogether. That would be 3 Slams kaput and neither Nadal nor Djokovic getting a chance to make further inroads on the record for the remainder of the year. Bad news for both considering the amount of points at stake. Especially for Nadal who had an incredible 2019.
 

ewiewp

Professional
I think the Slam count is by far the most important. Nobody gives a sh*t about weeks at number 1 other than obsessed fan boys. If there's no tennis played for the next several months, that would hurt Nadal and Djokovic more than anything. For all we know the season might be cancelled altogether. That would be 3 Slams kaput and neither Nadal nor Djokovic getting a chance to make further inroads on the record for the remainder of the year. Bad news for both considering the amount of points at stake. Especially for Nadal who had an incredible 2019.
I agree Nobody gives s***t about weeks at number 1.
But YE#1 does matter.
Especially when comparing different eras, IMHO.
This years YE#1 will carry less weight, it looks like though.
 

ewiewp

Professional
Like i said Yesterday

The points should be dropped only for the players who had pulled out cuz of personal issues or being injuried :)
If I were ATP, I would subtract ranking points as usual and apply protective ranking/seeding rules for everybody.
I mean we should use the rule very creatively and as generous as possible for this unexpected crisis.
Decide later on what to on year end events and ranking ceremonies, depending on when we come back on ATP.
 
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