shoulder turn on serve

[takeuchi]

does having the shoulders turned more on the serve give more spin?

recently i've been turning my shoulders more (135degrees to the net maybe more) on my first serve and when i try to do a flat serve it seems like it throws my swing path off. I usually turn around 90degrees and a bit to the net on the flat serve which seems to yield better results, perhaps because there is a straighter path from the shoulder to the ball and less of a rotational component(horizontal) of the shoulders (there is still vertical rotation of the shoulders though)?

however i found on my 2nd serve topspin serve that using a greater shoulder turn gives me more spin and power.

it also feels like using more shoulder turn requires a toss further into the court to give room to uncoil.

I'd like to hear some thoughts/tips so i have somewhere to start next time i get a chance to practice serving

 

[takeuchi]

bump....no one ever responds

 

[Boris]

Potentially, more shoulder turn can give you more power and spin. It is possible that you will have to adjust your swingpath; because that rotation must be transformed into energy going forward. I am having a similar problem, where excessive rotation makes me lose control, though when I hit the ball neatly I achieve good power. If you have a good lower body up-and-forward drive, you should be able to take advantage of more shoulder turn.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

does having the shoulders turned more on the serve give more spin?

More shoulder turn can, indeed, yield more spin. However, it can also yield more power on flatter serves (up to a point). Can a server have too much rotation? Yes, it is possible. Many players have too much lower body (legs & hips) rotation. You appear to be asking about upper body (torso) rotation tho'. Less likely, but it is also possible to have too much torso rotation. Try to find the optimum amount of shoulder tilt and torso rotation for your own service mechanics.

A lot of the rotational acceleration (that helps to generate spin & power) is derived by the differential between lower body & upper body rotation. The lower body rotates 1st. This will create some tension in the core (and even in the part of the chest in front of the hitting shoulder). The rotational energy is then released or transferred to the upper body in a whip-like fashion (but in a rotational manner).

...perhaps because there is a straighter path from the shoulder to the ball and less of a rotational component(horizontal) of the shoulders (there is still vertical rotation of the shoulders though)?...

You've lost me here. What do you mean by the horizontal component & why do you think that there will be less of it. By vertical rotation are you still talking about torso rotation or are you referring to the rotation of the hitting arm about its own shoulder?

 

[1171]

Just look at John McEnroe. With his back 180 degrees away from net. He hits with spins, sway you left and right. He has good control, but not much speed. He averages around 105 mph.

When you turn that much, make sure your feet turns as much. Throw ball into court, launch off like you are jumping backward with your back to net. Takes a genius to keep your balance, like Johnny Mac.

 

[takeuchi]

You've lost me here. What do you mean by the horizontal component & why do you think that there will be less of it. By vertical rotation are you still talking about torso rotation or are you referring to the rotation of the hitting arm about its own shoulder?

i was referring to the "shoulder over shoulder rotation" as the vertical (rolling forward like a wheel), and the turning of the shoulders/torso as horizontal (spinning like a top)

 

[lucky leprechaun]

The short answer is hellz yeah! more spin more pace more wieght whaterver you want to call it. The long answer is I odn't knwo it just works.

 

[heninfan99]

it also feels like using more shoulder turn requires a toss further into the court to give room to uncoil.

I'd like to hear some thoughts/tips so i have somewhere to start next time i get a chance to practice serving

worthy bump topic. One of the harder things is getting good shoulder turn while tossing into the court and jumping into the court.

McEnroe started his well-known motion(I say well-known because when he first played Wimby he had a conventional serve stance) with the shoulder already turned back. The tricky part is still tossing in front. I find it's the same distance in front weather have a big shoulder turn or us a smaller one.

It adds an element of directional disguise which is nice, more slice potential but the power is the same.