Sidespin and It's Use and Application

Amone

Amone

Hall of Fame
I was looking around on the web a few months ago, before I knew of the great resources in this forum, as well as in things called books that you can get in places such as stores and libraries related to tennis, and came across about.com's tennis section. They have a section (found here)
which details specific types of spins and their basic functions, if not the greatest detail on usage. They, as well as a rather old-school book I found in the local library ("The Handbook of Tennis," which is 16 years old-school) mention in passing the idea of sidespin (the about article calls it 'true slice') and while the book does mention its use to some degree, it doesn't at all detail how to properly hit it, and the about article doesn't go into any degree of detail either.
So, I pose a few questions:

- How does one hit sidespin on a groundstroke, regardless of top- or under-spin?

- Why doesn't anyone explain it in detail when they mention it in such settings as I have outlined in this post?

- What is its standard use in the game today, if it has any? If not, what is its most common usage on a smaller scale?

- Who uses sidespin as a common tactic in match play in the pro tour, if anyone?

- When would someone use it, according to the modern use and style of the game?
 
I think the kind of sidespin you might be thinking of really isn't used anymore. Not the way people like Chris Evert and Jimmy Connors used it, like a regular drive with sidespin that made the ball curve away from the center of the court.

The type of sidespin you see now is a forehand hook, used on passing shots to make the ball go into the doubles alley, then curve back into the singles court...

And on the slice backhand sometimes, where the ball is hit closer to the body, contacting occurring below the knees, and the ball is spun so that it spins away from the center of the court.

I don't think it's a shot worth practicing at all. After a while, you'll just sort of KNOW how to hit a curving forehand passing shot, or a sidespinning slice approach shot. What I'm suggesting is that if you're not to the point where hitting such a shot is pretty much intuitive, you're really jumping way too far ahead if you start isolating such a tricky shot as something you need to practice. It would be sort of like practicing a squash shot, or a between the legs shot. IMO.
 
i hit a inside out backhand dtl slice approach with side spin sometimes, really confuses people. i just go way around the outside of the ball. it is good for a backhand dtl because it goes off the court.

I have practiced a tweener btw!!! (messing around)
 
I'm not exactly trying to isolate the shot for use with in practice, I simply assumed that the rudimentary methods I'd sort-of figured out were probably not the most effective, as they are basically a clammed up backhand slice, and I don't have the faith in anything of that sort to believe it might even go over the net at further than a few meters. I've been considering this idea that perhaps the idea of slice should be closely looked into, and from my understanding of it, sidespin is closely linked with slice; hence, I wished to see what knowledge other people had on the subject that I didn't have to study on my own dollar (all the public courts near my home are closed due to the fact that it's the middle of winter, so I would have to rent a court for such a purpose). Perhaps I should've noted that.

However, I would still question, how did Connors or Evert use it when it was in use?

That question seems to be something that definitely needs to be ansered for the purpose of my random, bored studies, as it gives clues to why it is ineffective in the current game, and what changes could be made to its use to make it increasingly effective. If it can be changed in such a way at all.
 
Sidespin. Fair question.

Here is the answer.

Sidespin is seen in the game of tennis in two general situations.
One is on the serve.
This is also known as a "slice" serve in which you hit the ball on the SIDE, hence you impart (you guessed it) sidespin. This will cause the ball to angle away to your left if your a righty or to your right if your a lefty.

Second, sidespin is seen on SLICE ground strokes.
It is when you hit the ball with a high to low motion, BUT you do this at an angle. This can be done on both forehand and backhand slice shots. I tell my students that mixing in differing degrees of sidespin on their slice shots is always a good idea..especially on slice approach shots. This keeps your opponent guessing about what kind of bounce the ball will take after it hits his side of the court.
 
Thanks for the info, Troy. Now I know how it's used in everyday, modern-osity, and what you're basically telling me is that sidespin is underspin- the sequal. *scribbles on a notepad furiously for a second*
 
You can do it easily on a high forehand topspin shot by brushing up a bit less and wiping sideways.
 
It depends you can do a sidespin with topspin during the stroke to produce angles, such as Federer does with his passing shots and to pull people wide. And sidespin after the ball bounces which makes it go left and right.

It's very effective but should really only be used for late in the game when people are used to topspins, and usually have poor footwork or to put peple way out of their normal rythm.

But the percentages for using these shots are very low. Especially slice forehand when you scoop around the ball you can create sidespin to spin to the right after it bounces. And even moreso the reason they are so low percentage is you have to take these shots extremely low and the ball has to be moving fairly slow. Below knee, the best spot is about an inch or two above the ankles.

Not many people use sidespin now as a lot of pros in the past. I forgot but there was a guy a long time ago who played pretty much like Fabrice Santoro. Chipping and slicing at his opponent winning points slowly.
 
AngeloDS said:
It depends you can do a sidespin with topspin during the stroke to produce angles, such as Federer does with his passing shots and to pull people wide. And sidespin after the ball bounces which makes it go left and right.

It's very effective but should really only be used for late in the game when people are used to topspins, and usually have poor footwork or to put peple way out of their normal rythm.

But the percentages for using these shots are very low. Especially slice forehand when you scoop around the ball you can create sidespin to spin to the right after it bounces. And even moreso the reason they are so low percentage is you have to take these shots extremely low and the ball has to be moving fairly slow. Below knee, the best spot is about an inch or two above the ankles.

Not many people use sidespin now as a lot of pros in the past. I forgot but there was a guy a long time ago who played pretty much like Fabrice Santoro. Chipping and slicing at his opponent winning points slowly.
Click to expand...

There are certain shots that are hit with sidespin for a certain affect on the ball and that is:

1. Inside out shots can have sidespin on them.

2. Some short ball putaways where they want the ball too trail away from the hitter from the bounce.

3. During a slice backhand to get the ball to trail out of the hitting zone

4. To change the pace of the game or mix in shots.

But you are right in that it is not a "go to" shot in most situations.
 
I was taught my slice groundies with sidespin.
You brush back of the ball from upper-left to lower-right for Backhand and reverse for forehand. Basically if you hit your slice where you stroke forms a U it should have some sidespin on it.

It's particularly effective on a dropshot.
 
I do remember seeing one shot that Federer did on tv. The ball hit within a foot of the sidelines, and then preceded to curve toward the alley. When they replayed it in slow-mo, you could see it must have curved a foot or two to the side. So it should be plainly obvious why it's used.

Against beginners, it can really screw with their anticipation and timing if they aren't used to it. I did one of my extreme slice serves against my lefty friend. It looked like it was going to land maybe a few inches wide down the T, but it curved back in just in time. Not only that, but after the bounce it curved sharply from his forehand to his backhand. He was so befuddled and he whiffed it. The ball was moving very slow too, but I still got an ace. That's an extreme example, but you can use it to jam someone.
 
At the ATP level, when guys hit inside out forehand, it's not with sidespin. I'm not discrediting anything somebody here posted, just saying that on the pro level I don't see any sidespinning inside out forehands.
 
35ft6 said:
At the ATP level, when guys hit inside out forehand, it's not with sidespin. I'm not discrediting anything somebody here posted, just saying that on the pro level I don't see any sidespinning inside out forehands.
Click to expand...

Isn't there a little sidespin along with topspin in those shots? Not in the sense of a slice, but more like a sideways brushing action.
 
It is. SPECIALLY on the inside out forehands.
I've seen it most applied on dropshots and even flat one handed backhands (not so flat, after all). In a 1hbh, the ball curves to the left, if the hitter is righty.
 
On inside out forehand drop shots, especially on clay, yes, there is sidespin, but on inside out drives I don't detect any.
 
Andres Guazzelli said:
It is. SPECIALLY on the inside out forehands.
I've seen it most applied on dropshots and even flat one handed backhands (not so flat, after all). In a 1hbh, the ball curves to the left, if the hitter is righty.
Click to expand...

Right (no pun). There are guys who can put a lot of this sidespin in a flick backhand. They brush slightly right to left (for a righty BH) and the ball moves in the air to the left. How it does it move after bouncing - right or left? I remember it moving right.

I wish someone writes down exactly the types of in-air and after-bounce ball movements possible. Not deriving it technically, but just listing the common scenarios. I used to think the in-flight movement was always opposite to the movement after bounce. But the slice serve curves R to L in both cases?
 
I think there is some confusion about what sidespin is. I remember reading on this board once that Agassi's forehands are not really flat, but have sidespin on them. Obviously it was not a forehand dropshot or slice being discussed. It is more like the racquet is pulled close to the body from the right to the left and ball moves a little more to the right than you would expect. It seems to be safer to hit like that than pure flat. I am no explaining it well at all.
 
I may be wrong , but I thing the poster is referring to a forehand hit with a combination of top and side spin. I played with a high level college player several times a couple of years ago. He's a very hard hitter and often whips the face of the racquet around the outside and up over the underside of the ball and kinda' slings it with both top and side. It hits the court and jumps up and away from his forehand side. With high velocity it's obviously a formidable shot.

He showed me how he does it, but I really can't do it with any consistency. It seems to require a great deal of racquet head speed. This young man's name was Hunter Benton. Maybe some of you know him. Very strong. Very powerful. He's teaching tennis down in Lafayette, Louisiana I think.
 
35ft6 said:
On inside out forehand drop shots, especially on clay, yes, there is sidespin, but on inside out drives I don't detect any.
Click to expand...

Not on any inside out forhand.
Courier hit his inside out forhands with sidespin. the ball moved away from the opponent. He hits the inside of the ball, different side of the ball when you hook the ball.
But its a personal thing, some pros hit always the outside of the ball so the ball curves a little bit.
 
I used sidespin on three different shots, forehand slice (mostly I just use straight backspin though but sometimes if the wind is blowing across the court I will add some sidespin to make the ball move even more), overhead slice (curves towards opponents forehand), and slice serve (also curves towards their forehand.

sidespin on groundstrokes isn't that effective against good players since you can't hit it that hard and get good depth and good players can read the spin and will use good footwork to take advantage of a ball hit not as deep as a topspin ball and may also use angles back against you. It can be fun to use to mess up weaker players though who aren't used to it and don't move their feet enough.
 
odessa said:
Not on any inside out forhand.
Courier hit his inside out forhands with sidespin. the ball moved away from the opponent. He hits the inside of the ball, different side of the ball when you hook the ball.
But its a personal thing, some pros hit always the outside of the ball so the ball curves a little bit.
Click to expand...
I can see it with Courier, who's not on the tour anymore, and Chris Evert, too, but these days the guys with the windshield wiper follow throughs, their inside out forehand are almost the same as their cross court forehands in terms of spin, they just change their swing so that the follow through ends up in FRONT of their stomach instead of to the left of their upper torso.
 
If you like a video to show it, I can record it and upload it.
I will record a table tennis video, so you can see better the ammount of spin in all its varieties (topspin, sidespin, undersidespin, backspin, right-handed lefty spins (awkward motion, but effective), and the combinations between them.

Just say the word ;)
 
watch some old martina n & jimbo videos. martina used sidespin when slicing her BH down the line to come in. when it bounced, it opened up the court even more... same with jimbo on his forehand and backhand side on down the line approaches...
 
Sidespin is seldom seen today on groudstokes.
To hit sidespin, a players need to first be able to hit a ball flat, without topspin or underspin.
After mastering flat hits, you can then hit your follow thru brushing the ball either the inside or outside and this will generate the associated sidespin rotation on the ball.
Hitting flat and then adding this additional sidespin skill to your hitting options will make you a more complete tennis player and more confident hitter.
 
joe sch said:
Sidespin is seldom seen today on groudstokes.
To hit sidespin, a players need to first be able to hit a ball flat, without topspin or underspin.
After mastering flat hits, you can then hit your follow thru brushing the ball either the inside or outside and this will generate the associated sidespin rotation on the ball.
Hitting flat and then adding this additional sidespin skill to your hitting options will make you a more complete tennis player and more confident hitter.
Click to expand...

That is an outstanding way to put it Joe.

Sidespin is not something that is used all the time, but at the same time it is used for certain effects. A pro can do so much with the ball and one of those things is adding sidespin to allow the ball to trail away at certain times or get it to curve back into the court when forced wide as examples.

However, for normal groundstrokes it is not used unless you have those "trick" players.

I also like the way you put it on how someone grows into using a little sidespin for their shots. Very good.
 
I use -- and teach -- sidespin to players 4.0 and up. But they have to be truly "grounded" to "get it," IMO. (Joe's post ^^^ is a good clear description of what I mean by "grounded".)

BB's list is a good one...
BB said:
There are certain shots that are hit with sidespin for a certain affect on the ball and that is:

1. Inside out shots can have sidespin on them.

2. Some short ball putaways where they want the ball too trail away from the hitter from the bounce.

3. During a slice backhand to get the ball to trail out of the hitting zone

4. To change the pace of the game or mix in shots.
Click to expand...
... and I'd embelish with

4,b. To "mess with the mind" of a Baseline Blasting opponent. The tailing sidespin (on Top or Slice) will throw off his timing.

5. As a response to a low-bouncing short slice. (If your opponent hits a "poor" slice approach, and you have quick enough feet, you can turn this into your own approach shot. Charge the ball and -- instead of a backswing -- let your momentum be the "power" and with a (slightly) open face, swipe from East to West as you make contact with the ball. [With both BH and FH, you make contact a little before you normally would -- especially FH. This helps clear your shoulders out of the way of the stroke.] It will curve, just clear the net and bounce low, so he's hitting UP to you at the net.

But you are right in that it is not a "go to" shot in most situations.
Click to expand...
... unless you want more practice congratulating your opponent's winners.

These are not shots you "just decide to do" in a match. You need to work on them with purposeful drilling.

A great way to have a fun and educational lesson is to ask your favorite Teaching Pro to observe and comment on your semi-private singles hitting with a partner ... or on four of you playing doubles and working on specific game situations. It's some of the best lesson money you can buy, IMO. (And everyone has a blast!)

And LOTS of the ATP Pros' inside-out FHs have sidespin on them. Somebody's not paying enough attention.

- KK
 
Kaptain Karl said:
I use -- and teach -- sidespin to players 4.0 and up. But they have to be truly "grounded" to "get it," IMO. (Joe's post ^^^ is a good clear description of what I mean by "grounded".)

BB's list is a good one...... and I'd embelish with

4,b. To "mess with the mind" of a Baseline Blasting opponent. The tailing sidespin (on Top or Slice) will throw off his timing.

5. As a response to a low-bouncing short slice. (If your opponent hits a "poor" slice approach, and you have quick enough feet, you can turn this into your own approach shot. Charge the ball and -- instead of a backswing -- let your momentum be the "power" and with a (slightly) open face, swipe from East to West as you make contact with the ball. [With both BH and FH, you make contact a little before you normally would -- especially FH. This helps clear your shoulders out of the way of the stroke.] It will curve, just clear the net and bounce low, so he's hitting UP to you at the net.

... unless you want more practice congratulating your opponent's winners.

These are not shots you "just decide to do" in a match. You need to work on them with purposeful drilling.

A great way to have a fun and educational lesson is to ask your favorite Teaching Pro to observe and comment on your semi-private singles hitting with a partner ... or on four of you playing doubles and working on specific game situations. It's some of the best lesson money you can buy, IMO. (And everyone has a blast!)

And LOTS of the ATP Pros' inside-out FHs have sidespin on them. Somebody's not paying enough attention.

- KK
Click to expand...

lol, very good.
 
rod99 said:
hewitt's inside out forehand has a lot of sidespin on it. clijster's does as well.
Click to expand...

Yeah baby it does. A lot of pros will slide the racquet a little to get the ball to trail away from an opponent trying to catch up to it from behind.

yaaaaa, yaaaaa
 
rod99 said:
hewitt's inside out forehand has a lot of sidespin on it. clijster's does as well.
Click to expand...
I agree that alot of pros today hit inside out FH's but most of them have more topspin than sidespin. I will stick to my claim that a true "flat" sidespin is almost never seen today. Maybe Hingus will show a few in her oldschool comeback :)
 
My coach showed me his flat forehand the other day. When he hits balls below the net from the baseline, his eastern forehand with slightly open racquet face produces some sidespin on the ball. The bounce is so low and it skids. It's like half a feet above the ground. That's a nightmare to 2hbh players, especially when it bounces near the edge of the service line.
 
ondray said:
It's like half a feet above the ground. That's a nightmare to 2hbh players, especially when it bounces near the edge of the service line.
Click to expand...

It is a nightmare! I love hitting open court flat forehands with a trace of topspin/side spin. Especially if the player has to catch up to it.

With that side spin it just fades a tad more away from him forcing my opponent to make a desperate shot.
 
joe sch said:
I agree that alot of pros today hit inside out FH's but most of them have more topspin than sidespin. I will stick to my claim that a true "flat" sidespin is almost never seen today. Maybe Hingus will show a few in her oldschool comeback :)
Click to expand...

Okay, far enough. Maybe I miscommunicated. There are very few players that hit a pure sidespin shot.

What I am talking about is the "modern" sidespin shot. Nearly every pro hits the ball with topspin or flat with a touch of sidespin on certain shots.

It is a lot like a golfer controlling the fade in his shot. Pros can do a lot with that ball. The bread and butter shot will be the topspin shot with no attempt to put a touch of sidespin on it.
 
Too many people use western grips and they suck for creating sidespin on the inside outside forehand. For me, the semi-western is the best because you can literally roll the ball off my string bed to create extra spin or atleast it feels that way with my stroke. My inside outsides are combination of power, topspin and sidespin.

My wrist is beyond 90 degrees. And that my body is turned and my arm lags. So the racquet is literally like this \ when I make contact. But it feels like the ball rolls from around the babolat double lines and then comes off just above the sweet spot.

It's like Roger Federer's 1000 FPS stroke, with his wrist laid back. Except when I make contact it isn't flat with the ball, it's angled with the tip of the head pointed back towards me. And I drive through the ball and have a bent elbow. And it's nice because I can drive through the ball and do different things with a few adjustments.

That's why I can mask my inside outside forehands pretty well. Because all I do is just push forward a little and lag my body just a little bit. It looks like my normal strokes with a few modifications.
 
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