Since 2011 Nadal leads the h2h with Djokovic only in 2 tournaments
- Thread starter Lew II
- Start date
mehdimike
Hall of Fame
Yea Nadal who reached 5 consecutive Wimbledon between 2006-2011 and reached 5 USO F in the last 8 times played there, was not reaching the match between the two.
Do you expect Rafa to reach the Finals of every non-clay tourney he is playing at?!!
He was unlucky to miss 2012 and 2014 USO being RU and Champion respectively, missing 2009 W as a defending champion and also missing 2013 AO where he was in a finalist in the year before.
are you trying to hit a new low?
winning the title is the ultimate scope of participating in a tennis tournament
no, he should only reach the finals when Novak does so as well, and then in order to please Novak trolls, he shall lose them
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
Semifinals reached:
AO: Djokovic 8 > Nadal 6
WI: Djokovic 8 > Nadal 7
UO: Djokovic 11 > Nadal 8
NoleIsBoat
Hall of Fame
Nadal is more accomplished with the extra title, but we are here to analyse and discuss aren't we ? He has been very lucky to be ahead there.
It is clear, Nadal didn't go through the best HC player to win in either 2017 or 2019. 2017 it was Federer who was injured, then it was Djokovic in 2019.
In addition, pre peak Djokovic had to face Federer in 3 semi finals before 2010, he would have been favoured to win in each final had Federer been injured or lost early like in 2017/2019.
mehdimike
Hall of Fame
So Nadal did reach the later part of the tourneys then what's your point?!!
#appearance at slams
AO Novak 16 15 Rafa
W Novak 15 14 Rafa
USO both 15
Totall
Novak 37/62=0.596
Rafa 34/60=0.566
No noticeable difference
mehdimike
Hall of Fame
And Nadal was unlucky considering his peak at Wimbledon coincided with Roger's peak. Novak could not beat him even in 2012 when he(Novak) was a defending champion and Roger was past him prime. Losing to Murray and Wawrinka in F and Nishikori in SF during his prime years was not related to bad luck or injury or anything.
NoleIsBoat
Hall of Fame
Djokovic faced Federer as many times as Nadal did in Wimbledon but leads 3 - 1, including 3 - 0 in finals...
3 losses for Djokovic, only Nishikori is a bad loss. Nadal lost to Ferrer, Murray and Del Potro in semi finals while Djokovic faced Federer each time.
The luck is vulturing 2 titles in 2017 / 2019 with the best HC players injured or absent.
mehdimike
Hall of Fame
Yea beating 2003-2009 Federer at w is the same as beating 33-34 -38 years old Federer.
Also Nadal didn't lose to Ferrer Murray and Del Potro on clay, his losses to them were not shocking. As an arguably the best Hardcourt player of all time, Novak should have won those games.
what about QF? R2?
I don't know, you tell me.
You seem to be busy with trolling, not with analyzing and discussing
Novak got his titles in 2018 as well without facing the best or second best HC player.
Honestly talking it was a brutally weak draw.
So, let's take it out, and let's take Nadal's 2 "weak" titles as you say.
Is Novak leading by the amount of adjusted titles?
Is Novak leading by the H2H at USO during their entire career?
weren't you here for:
in this case, can you really say that beating 2003-2009 Federer at w is the same as beating 33-34 -38 years old Federer?
The Guru
Legend
What would it look like if half the matches were played at AO and not RG?
rografnovand
Rookie
Shame he could never convert his clay masters wins into an RG final/ Semi final win in 10 years
woulda coulda shoulda?
The Guru
Legend
Nah just that Djokovic was actually good enough to go deep on clay consistently unlike Nadal off clay.
Pheasant
Legend
For Nadal vs Djokovic, we need to exclude the 2005-2010 stats. In addition, we need to exclude 2017.
It's not fair that Nadal was better during those 7 years that I mentioned, despite being less than 1 year apart in age.
Come on folks, that's just basic cherry-picking 101, an elective course at most of your community colleges.
It's not fair that Nadal was better during those 7 years that I mentioned, despite being less than 1 year apart in age.
Come on folks, that's just basic cherry-picking 101, an elective course at most of your community colleges.
NoleIsBoat
Hall of Fame
So 1 weaker draw for Djokovic compared to 2 for Nadal. Explains the 4>3 which is definitely a fluke, as Djokovic is the better USO player.
NoleIsBoat
Hall of Fame
Federer in summer 2015 won 61/62 sets vs players not named Djokovic and said he was playing his best tennis, but some say he's an old granpda who cant run... 2014 - 2019 Federer also improved his h2h vs Nadal compared to 2004 - 2009.
Yes but we are comparing the USO records. Nadal won 1 extra title because he vultured in 2017 / 2019 without defeating the best HC players. He is not better there, just a matter of timing.
back to trolling? so quickly?
what about answering the other qeustions?
Is Novak leading by the amount of adjusted titles
Is Novak leading by the H2H at USO during their entire career
mehdimike
Hall of Fame
Djokovic had his easy draws in 2014/2016/2018/2020 but he won 0 titles in those years.
D
Deleted member 775898
Guest
He actually won that one. But not the others ...
What it shows and might be your point, is that Nadal was the number 2 player throughout most of his career. Before 2011 he was number 2 behind Fed, after 2011 number 2 to Djokovic. I cant have him over either of them as at their best they are clearly the best during their careers. Nadal is superhuman on clay, and so much better than the second best on that surface that there is no point of even coming up with a contender. But taking all things into consideration he is 2 to both
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
2008, 2010, 2013, 2017, 2019......
Djokovic wouldn't have the weeks he has if he had peak years during 05-07 either.
NoleIsBoat
Hall of Fame
Before 2017 both players were 2 - 2 in titles. Since then Nadal has had 2 very weak draws, where the best HC player of the year was injured both times (Federer 2017, Djokovic 2019)
2018 was weaker than usual yes.
2020 was unlucky but wasn't a weak draw. To win he has to go through Thiem, the best hc player of 2020.
So 2 weak titles to Nadal, 1 for Djokovic with many many more losses to great opponents such as Federer and Murray.
NoleIsBoat
Hall of Fame
Djokovic in 2015-2016 accumulated more ATP points as number 1 than any player in history. But yes, Federer who he leads 3 - 0 in Wimbledon finals would stop him from being ranked number 1
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Djokovic in 2015-2016 accumulated more ATP points as number 1 than any player in history. But yes, Federer who he leads 3 - 0 in Wimbledon finals would stop him from being ranked number 1
He had the weakest field in history to go along with it
NoleIsBoat
Hall of Fame
2015 top 5 and 10 set record for most ATP ranking points everHe had the weakest field in history to go along with it
but yes, weak because 'eye test' and 'Djokovic won a lot'
mehdimike
Hall of Fame
Yes, 1/4
CHillTennis
Hall of Fame
In all fairness to Djokovic, I think his head to head record with Nadal is somewhat misleading.
They played each other seven times between April of 2015 and May of 2016 with Djokovic winning every meeting.
This was during a time when Novak was playing at his absolute best. Winning 4 out of 5 slams.
Nadal was for the most part in bad form during this period of time. Losing to lower ranked players like Verdasco and Fognini in slams.
From the second half of 2016 through the first half of 2018, a time when Djokovic was having noticeable bad results in most of the events that he entered, they only played twice.
Nadal won both matches in straight sets.
Since May of 2017 Nadal has won 4 out of 7 matches against Djokovic.
mehdimike
Hall of Fame
How was Thiem the best Hardcourt player of 2020?!!
And Medvedev was the best Hardcourt player of 2019 during the whole summer too.
NoleIsBoat
Hall of Fame
Won a grand slam and reached another final, reached YEC final. It's close but he has edge over Djokovic for the year.
But still the toughest opponent for Nadal in 2019 would be Djokovic, probably in straight sets. I think he was injured against Wawrinka.
zagor
Bionic Poster
So context is irrelavant? They met 2 times at Novak's best slam and 7(?) times at Nadal's best slam.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
They have met 16 times in total in slams
8 times at RG and 8 times at the other three slams combined.
zagor
Bionic Poster
So even worse than I thought. Are people really gonna tell with a straight face that this isn't unbalanced?
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Well, 8 on clay and 8 off clay sounds pretty balanced.
JaoSousa
Hall of Fame
Service Ace
Hall of Fame
This thread is a great example of how manipulative Lew is.
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
Nadal and Djokovic are almost the same age and became pros at about the same time separated by only a couple of years. There is no reason to compare their careers and achievements only after 2011.
If the point is that Novak was the best player of the 2010s decade, very few would dispute that. If the point is that it makes Novak a better player than Rafa in general, it is a fail thread as you have to look at the entirety of their careers.
Their careers are not over and let’s see if the last few chapters are better for one or the other - the first few chapters were definitely better for Nadal and Djokovic has been playing catch-up right from the start.
If the point is that Novak was the best player of the 2010s decade, very few would dispute that. If the point is that it makes Novak a better player than Rafa in general, it is a fail thread as you have to look at the entirety of their careers.
Their careers are not over and let’s see if the last few chapters are better for one or the other - the first few chapters were definitely better for Nadal and Djokovic has been playing catch-up right from the start.
somebody had to win that slam, and guess what, Federer and Nadal didn't participate, and Novak got DQ.
so, it had to be someone outside of Big 3
but since Krajinovic defeated Thiem at W&S, what was it 6-1 6-1? can we say that Krajinociv is the best HC player in 2020?
Crazy Finn
Hall of Fame
But, if you start all of the discussion at 2011 - then everything looks better for Djokovic...
of course there is a point in discussing starting with 2011, and that point is to try and convince everyone that Novak is the mightiest player humanity has ever seen.
That sentence exposes everything you need to know about the Djokovic "since 2011" fanboys. They need to exclude Nadals primiest prime to make their cases.
I say Stakhovsky > Federer. Stakhovsky is 1-0 vs Federer, I think it's fair to exclude every tournament outside Wim13, since Federer is 20-0 in slam titles outside Wim13, it's not a fair comparison.
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