Since 2013: Nadal 2-0 vs. Djok at slams, 1-4 at non-slams

NADALRECORD

Banned
And all 4 of Djokovic's wins were in straight sets.

What does this tell us?

a) Nadal is only willing to go down-the-line at slams.

b) Nadal is psychologically superior on the big stage.

I think its mostly about a).
Nadal rarely goes down-the-line at non-slams vs Djokovic.
Nadal wants to catch Djokovic by surprise at the slams.
By avoiding the winning strategy at non-slams, Nadal is not giving Djokovic any practice.
And if Nadal were to win any of the non-slam matches with the losing strategy, it would be a huge psychological blow to Djokovic (Nadal would be able to say "Look Mum, I beat Djokovic without going down-the-line").

Also look at 2011, Nadal was not going down-the-line at Wimbledon and US Open finals, and you saw what happened. This was back when Nadal was not aware that he HAD TO go down-the-line vs. Djokovic.

nadal90s.jpg
 

Start da Game

Hall of Fame
in my honest observation, it's all down to how much he wants to push his knees in matches against djokovic......against other players, his 60% is enough to get over the line but against djokovic, he needs to be at 80%......that is only possible if he pushes his knees more than usual......so it's a matter of choice when to risk injuries......nadal chooses slams and i think that is right......

people are foolishly believing that the matches are on djokovic's racket......i say that's ******** because djokovic's level is the same in every match, he is like a robot......so the matches are really on nadal's knees......
 

Matt H.

Professional
I don't get Djokovic.

I watch him play yesterday and within 2 games think to myself there is no way Nadal can win this match.

He stretched Nadal all over the court when on offense and his defense could track down any shot. Spin and height looked like it didn't phase him.

It was the same look back in 2011-early 2012.

How he lost to Murray at Wimbledon and Nadal at the US Open is kinda puzzling.
 

Start da Game

Hall of Fame
I don't get Djokovic.

I watch him play yesterday and within 2 games think to myself there is no way Nadal can win this match.

He stretched Nadal all over the court when on offense and his defense could track down any shot. Spin and height looked like it didn't phase him.

It was the same look back in 2011-early 2012.

How he lost to Murray at Wimbledon and Nadal at the US Open is kinda puzzling.

you just have to read my post above to clear the puzzle......
 

Matt H.

Professional
i don't buy your explanation. Nadal's forehand "appears" slow when playing Djokovic. He's just not able to get him out of position as often as earlier in the rivlary.
 

NADALRECORD

Banned
i don't buy your explanation. Nadal's forehand "appears" slow when playing Djokovic. He's just not able to get him out of position as often as earlier in the rivlary.

Earlier in the rivalry = September 2013?

2013 was massively better for Nadal than 2011.
 

Start da Game

Hall of Fame
i don't buy your explanation. Nadal's forehand "appears" slow when playing Djokovic. He's just not able to get him out of position as often as earlier in the rivlary.

that is because there is too much pressure on the forehand when the backhand is limited due to knee issues......nadal's new pattern of play against djokovic is to keep everything off the backhand deep and down the center......he cannot do that with open stance backhands......he has to push that left knee forward and drive the ball viciously, which he won't do unless he feels desperate......that is making all the difference in my opinion......
 

Start da Game

Hall of Fame
djokovic has nothing over nadal if nadal's backhand is ON.....nothing......that is why he loses whenever nadal decides to bring his GOAT backhand......
 

LazyNinja19

Banned
in my honest observation, it's all down to how much he wants to push his knees in matches against djokovic......against other players, his 60% is enough to get over the line but against djokovic, he needs to be at 80%......that is only possible if he pushes his knees more than usual......so it's a matter of choice when to risk injuries......nadal chooses slams and i think that is right......

people are foolishly believing that the matches are on djokovic's racket......i say that's ******** because djokovic's level is the same in every match, he is like a robot......so the matches are really on nadal's knees......

I agree with you.

But if Nadal is actually doing what the OP suggests, then I'm afraid Rafa is just stupid. How idiotic is it to not try to win against your biggest rival in the finals of Masters & WTF, just coz you're saving your "tactics" for Slams . Lol

Nadal might not even have to face Djoko in every slam.

What I do agree with, is that Rafa accepts losses easily against Djoko in the Best of 3. Hardly any fight. Seems like he wants to give Djoko the satisfaction of beating him, and then bring out his hunger at the Slams.

Kinda weird. But I don't know what's going on in the Nadal camp.
 

Omega_7000

Legend
Someone who is famous for never giving the mental edge to his opponents (knee,abdominal tear,back,tired etc.) is losing on purpose to give the mental edge to his biggest rival? :-?

This is "moral victor of AO" all over again.
 

uliks

Banned
I don't get Djokovic.

I watch him play yesterday and within 2 games think to myself there is no way Nadal can win this match.

He stretched Nadal all over the court when on offense and his defense could track down any shot. Spin and height looked like it didn't phase him.

It was the same look back in 2011-early 2012.

How he lost to Murray at Wimbledon and Nadal at the US Open is kinda puzzling.

Its all mental with Djokovic
 

Start da Game

Hall of Fame
I agree with you.

But if Nadal is actually doing what the OP suggests, then I'm afraid Rafa is just stupid. How idiotic is it to not try to win against your biggest rival in the finals of Masters & WTF, just coz you're saving your "tactics" for Slams . Lol

Nadal might not even have to face Djoko in every slam.

What I do agree with, is that Rafa accepts losses easily against Djoko in the Best of 3. Hardly any fight. Seems like he wants to give Djoko the satisfaction of beating him, and then bring out his hunger at the Slams.

Kinda weird. But I don't know what's going on in the Nadal camp.

yes he seems to be giving up early in best of 3......even yesterday right from the beginning he blasted a few 130 mph first serves and tried to hit outrageous winners......all that is not his game......

OP may have a point too......in masters tournaments, perhaps it is good not to give your best rival the dose of what is to come at slams......but the way i see is a little different, he just doesn't want to risk injuries before slams......nadal doesn't need masters at this point, he needs slams and only slams......
 

Omega_7000

Legend
yes he seems to be giving up early in best of 3......even yesterday right from the beginning he blasted a few 130 mph first serves and tried to hit outrageous winners......all that is not his game......

OP may have a point too......in masters tournaments, perhaps it is good not to give your best rival the dose of what is to come at slams......but the way i see is a little different, he just doesn't want to risk injuries before slams......nadal doesn't need masters at this point, he needs slams and only slams......

So what happened at the AO against Wawrinka?
 

cronus

Professional
in my honest observation, it's all down to how much he wants to push his knees in matches against djokovic......against other players, his 60% is enough to get over the line but against djokovic, he needs to be at 80%......that is only possible if he pushes his knees more than usual......so it's a matter of choice when to risk injuries......nadal chooses slams and i think that is right......

**** chooses slams? OK then why did he not do this against wawrinka in the AO final? if he pushes 80% on slams then shouldn't he push 100% for AO, a slam he never won, when he pushed and ran like hell during his match with nishikori in AO he failed to do that against wawrinka, so your butter theory ain't working.

The fact is **** pushes if has the opportunity and freedom and when the opponent is getting fooled by his forehand to their backhand , when that fails **** is just unable to push, this is the same play no matter it is a 250 event of a GS.
 

Ramesh848

Banned
And all 4 of Djokovic's wins were in straight sets.

What does this tell us?

a) Nadal is only willing to go down-the-line at slams.

b) Nadal is psychologically superior on the big stage.

I think its mostly about a).
Nadal rarely goes down-the-line at non-slams vs Djokovic.
Nadal wants to catch Djokovic by surprise at the slams.
By avoiding the winning strategy at non-slams, Nadal is not giving Djokovic any practice.
And if Nadal were to win any of the non-slam matches with the losing strategy, it would be a huge psychological blow to Djokovic (Nadal would be able to say "Look Mum, I beat Djokovic without going down-the-line").

Also look at 2011, Nadal was not going down-the-line at Wimbledon and US Open finals, and you saw what happened. This was back when Nadal was not aware that he HAD TO go down-the-line vs. Djokovic.

nadal90s.jpg

Lol..........

parera came out of hard court prime in Miami final my dear friend nadalrecord? :lol:

djoko leads h2h 11-6 since 2011, what it tell us? parera is djoko pigeon!

man with half brain knows djoko choked in last 2 gs meetings, not to mention F1/A1= F2/A2 maria. :lol:
 

FreeBird

Legend
The odds are Nadal will take the first set. Djokovic is not good after a couple of days of rest. Djokovic will probably warm up as the match continues, so could go either way, but Nadal will win the 1st set that is for sure.

I'm not saying Nadal lost on purpose, but this is the perfect loss because now Nadal can play Miami (and not worry about wearing himself out before the clay season). And Nadal has never won Miami before, so very ideal opportunity. I earmarked Miami as non-slam priority number one for 2014.
I'm talking about currently, I think Nadal is currently a better outdoor hardcourt player than Djokovic, now that Nadal is in his hardcourt prime.

epic-cry.gif
 

gambitt

Banned
Small sample size. FO 2013 semi could have gone either way (Novak net touch). Djokovic happened to have a slump in the second half of last season but found form again at WTF. AO loss to a hot Stan was not from poor play or poor form.

Stop trying to find patterns and make conclusions where there are none to be found.
 

Cup8489

G.O.A.T.
Methinks En ES Kay is feeling the pressure of 3 back-to-back Djokovic straight-set demolitions of Rafa on Hardcourt.
 

dudeski

Hall of Fame
in my honest observation, it's all down to how much he wants to push his knees in matches against djokovic......against other players, his 60% is enough to get over the line but against djokovic, he needs to be at 80%......that is only possible if he pushes his knees more than usual......so it's a matter of choice when to risk injuries......nadal chooses slams and i think that is right......

people are foolishly believing that the matches are on djokovic's racket......i say that's ******** because djokovic's level is the same in every match, he is like a robot......so the matches are really on nadal's knees......

That's exactly why Nadal fans are the Serena of tennis fans.
 
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NADALRECORD

Banned
FreeBird, me prioritizing Miami above all the other masters is not saying much. In 2013 Nadal won Indian Wells, Madrid, Rome, Montreal, Cincy. So what does that leave? Miami and the indoor events (and Monte Carlo, but Nadal has won enough of those obviously). You know I'd never value an indoor event. So of course Miami was "the top non-slam priority". But none of them mean anything, when compared to the slam events (as Nadal already has the masters record, and is now going for Federer's slam record).

A couple of days ago, on the eve of the Miami final, Sid_Vicious said:
"Really don't care who wins but hoping for a Miami 2011 quality repeat." and I replied:
"I don't really care who wins either. Nadal didn't even need to win Monte Carlo last year. Djokovic won that in straight sets and Nadal still won Roland Garros and US Open."
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=8230448#post8230448

That says it all- the fact that I still didn't care who won this Miami final, despite Djokovic being the opponent and despite Miami being a title Nadal has never won :lol:

I agree with you.

But if Nadal is actually doing what the OP suggests, then I'm afraid Rafa is just stupid. How idiotic is it to not try to win against your biggest rival in the finals of Masters & WTF, just coz you're saving your "tactics" for Slams . Lol

Nadal might not even have to face Djoko in every slam.

What I do agree with, is that Rafa accepts losses easily against Djoko in the Best of 3. Hardly any fight. Seems like he wants to give Djoko the satisfaction of beating him, and then bring out his hunger at the Slams.

Kinda weird. But I don't know what's going on in the Nadal camp.

"Try not to win"? Nadal is giving 100% effort to ALL the events.....The difference is the strategy he is employing in the slam events compared to his strategy in the non-slam events. This doesn't mean he's not giving 100%. He is clearly hustling and stressing in the non-slam events. He's trying to win them, but he's not going to break his rule.

Strategically, how idiotic is it to play all your best cards in the non-slams? Remember 2010? Nadal won 7 titles. 3 of them were slam titles. Do you realize how many non-slams Nadal lost at? Let me give you a clue. Nadal lost TEN matches, and only ONE of those losses was at a slam :lol:
 
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The-Champ

Legend
I don't get Djokovic.

I watch him play yesterday and within 2 games think to myself there is no way Nadal can win this match.

He stretched Nadal all over the court when on offense and his defense could track down any shot. Spin and height looked like it didn't phase him.

It was the same look back in 2011-early 2012.

How he lost to Murray at Wimbledon and Nadal at the US Open is kinda puzzling.

Maybe because Murray is a better grass player and Nadal is a better clay courter. Remember Murray had back problems and Nadal choked while serving for the match in the 4th set.

Djokovic though has been the better hc player since the beginning, I always give him the edge when playing Nadal on concrete but Nadal had a great day that day.
 

dudeski

Hall of Fame
FreeBird, me prioritizing Miami above all the other masters is not saying much. In 2013 Nadal won Indian Wells, Madrid, Rome, Montreal, Cincy. So what does that leave? Miami and the indoor events (and Monte Carlo, but Nadal has won enough of those obviously). You know I'd never value an indoor event. So of course Miami was "the top non-slam priority". But none of them mean anything. A couple of days ago, on the eve of the Miami final I said:



That says it all- the fact that I still didn't care who won this Miami final, despite Djokovic being the opponent and despite Miami being a title Nadal has never won :lol:

Yes we do otherwise how else would you justify Nadal needing to wait for his best HC year and Federer's worst form since 2002 in order to finally beat Fed at WTF?
 

NADALRECORD

Banned
Nadal won the 2013 US Open and made final of 2014 Australian Open. That means Nadal is the best hardcourt player on tour right now, unless you value the non-slams more than the slams....

If anything you can say Djokovic is currently the best non-slam hardcourt player.
 

SuperSpinner

Semi-Pro
Nadal won the 2013 US Open and made final of 2014 Australian Open. That means Nadal is the best hardcourt player on tour right now, unless you value the non-slams more than the slams....

If anything you can say Djokovic is currently the best non-slam hardcourt player.

That doesn't make sense. By that logic Wawrinka is the best HC player right now, since his H2H against Nadal in the last two HC slams is 1-0.
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
I agree with you.

But if Nadal is actually doing what the OP suggests, then I'm afraid Rafa is just stupid. How idiotic is it to not try to win against your biggest rival in the finals of Masters & WTF, just coz you're saving your "tactics" for Slams . Lol

Nadal might not even have to face Djoko in every slam.

What I do agree with, is that Rafa accepts losses easily against Djoko in the Best of 3. Hardly any fight. Seems like he wants to give Djoko the satisfaction of beating him, and then bring out his hunger at the Slams.

Kinda weird. But I don't know what's going on in the Nadal camp.

That's not true. You act as Nadal was just happy to be in the final.

Nadal wants to win Miami real bad. He was yelling "VAMOS!!" after hitting a fh winner even though he was down in the 2nd set. Most players(eg Murray) would show no sign of confidence/belief, but Nadal always believe that he can come back and win. You can tell that he wasn't happy during the trophy presentation. He was hurt inside.

Please, stop trying to minimize Nole's triumph.
 

tacou

G.O.A.T.
I agree with you.

But if Nadal is actually doing what the OP suggests, then I'm afraid Rafa is just stupid. How idiotic is it to not try to win against your biggest rival in the finals of Masters & WTF, just coz you're saving your "tactics" for Slams . Lol

Not saying I agree 100% with OP, but it's not stupid at all especially looking at the numbers...you think Nadal would rather have the 4-1 non-slam record and an 0-2 slam record, including the USO Final?

Obviously Rafa wanted to win the Miami final, but winning the French and other majors is much higher priority
 

jg153040

G.O.A.T.
We have a similar situation with Fed vs Murray. Murray leads masters, but Fed owns in majors.

Murray said that Fed is a different player at majors. I guess Rafa plays at a higher level at majors than masters.

Also, it's tougher for Nole to sustain his level.

So, we know Rafa is playing better at majors. Nobody argues this. We want to know, why he plays better at majors vs Nole.

There are several theories.

1.Maybe Rafa has better training methods allowing him to peak exactly at majors. While, Nole maybe doesn't know how to peak at the right time.

2.Maybe Rafa has better fitness and mental fitness. So, when both in finals they play a lot of tennis vs quality guys. You play 6 matches vs tougher guys and are bo5 matches. It means you drain more energy and mental energy. Maybe Rafa has bigger energy supply. Mental, physical or both.
So, Nole may not be as fresh. It seems that when Nole is fresh, he does great vs Rafa.

3.Maybe Rafa deals better with pressure and nerves. Major final tons more pressure than masters.

4.Maybe USO/RG centre court suits Rafa more than all those masters courts.
 

Ramesh848

Banned
We have a similar situation with Fed vs Murray. Murray leads masters, but Fed owns in majors.

Murray said that Fed is a different player at majors. I guess Rafa plays at a higher level at majors than masters.

Also, it's tougher for Nole to sustain his level.

So, we know Rafa is playing better at majors. Nobody argues this. We want to know, why he plays better at majors vs Nole.

There are several theories.

1.Maybe Rafa has better training methods allowing him to peak exactly at majors. While, Nole maybe doesn't know how to peak at the right time.

2.Maybe Rafa has better fitness and mental fitness. So, when both in finals they play a lot of tennis vs quality guys. You play 6 matches vs tougher guys and are bo5 matches. It means you drain more energy and mental energy. Maybe Rafa has bigger energy supply. Mental, physical or both.
So, Nole may not be as fresh. It seems that when Nole is fresh, he does great vs Rafa.

3.Maybe Rafa deals better with pressure and nerves. Major final tons more pressure than masters.

4.Maybe USO/RG centre court suits Rafa more than all those masters courts.

5)may be you forgot what happened in 2011-12. don't pretend now parera owns djoko in slams. FO was pretty close and uso was choke. you probably not giving attention to that djoko was AWOL in 2013. he now have won 6 straight sets still you think he can't defeat parera in slams?
 

MaiDee

Professional
And all 4 of Djokovic's wins were in straight sets.

What does this tell us?

a) Nadal is only willing to go down-the-line at slams.

b) Nadal is psychologically superior on the big stage.

I think its mostly about a).
Nadal rarely goes down-the-line at non-slams vs Djokovic.
Nadal wants to catch Djokovic by surprise at the slams.
By avoiding the winning strategy at non-slams, Nadal is not giving Djokovic any practice.
And if Nadal were to win any of the non-slam matches with the losing strategy, it would be a huge psychological blow to Djokovic (Nadal would be able to say "Look Mum, I beat Djokovic without going down-the-line").

Also look at 2011, Nadal was not going down-the-line at Wimbledon and US Open finals, and you saw what happened. This was back when Nadal was not aware that he HAD TO go down-the-line vs. Djokovic.

nadal90s.jpg

 

jg153040

G.O.A.T.
5)may be you forgot what happened in 2011-12. don't pretend now parera owns djoko in slams. FO was pretty close and uso was choke. you probably not giving attention to that djoko was AWOL in 2013. he now have won 6 straight sets still you think he can't defeat parera in slams?

Don't be so negative. You don't seem to know what the topic is about.

Why since 2013 Nadal is 2-0 vs Nole at majors but 1-4 at non slams.

It's pretty strange anomaly. So, people try to explain it. I gave you several possible theories.

You don't seem to know that the topic is since 2013, not before. So, maybe you should have read the thread title.
 

OrangePower

Legend
Another way to look at it:

Djokovic has won the last 3 matches
Nadal won the previous 3 before that

Djokovic was not playing all that well during the 2nd half of 2013. He started playing better late in the year, and playing well so far this year.

Whereas Nadal was playing well in 2013 up to and including USO, and has not been playing as well since then.
 
Lol..........

parera came out of hard court prime in Miami final my dear friend nadalrecord? :lol:

djoko leads h2h 11-6 since 2011, what it tell us? parera is djoko pigeon!

man with half brain knows djoko choked in last 2 gs meetings, not to mention F1/A1= F2/A2 maria. :lol:

Djokovic is 0-3 against Nadal in the slams since the French Open in 2012. Nadal beats Novak when it matters MOST in the slams. In ten years time nobody is going to care Novak won Miami or Indian Wells or WTF. What matters for champions like Nadal and Djokovic are slams. And Novak has not won a slam outside of Australia in three years.
 

powerangle

Legend
And all 4 of Djokovic's wins were in straight sets.

What does this tell us?

a) Nadal is only willing to go down-the-line at slams.

b) Nadal is psychologically superior on the big stage.

I think its mostly about a).
Nadal rarely goes down-the-line at non-slams vs Djokovic.
Nadal wants to catch Djokovic by surprise at the slams.
By avoiding the winning strategy at non-slams, Nadal is not giving Djokovic any practice.
And if Nadal were to win any of the non-slam matches with the losing strategy, it would be a huge psychological blow to Djokovic (Nadal would be able to say "Look Mum, I beat Djokovic without going down-the-line").

Also look at 2011, Nadal was not going down-the-line at Wimbledon and US Open finals, and you saw what happened. This was back when Nadal was not aware that he HAD TO go down-the-line vs. Djokovic.

nadal90s.jpg

Actually what it tells me is that Djokovic has the game to run over Nadal in straight sets...but Nadal needs to use his mentality to grind out a non-straight set win over Djokovic (even if he supposedly uses the FH down-the-line more)....which is true, seeing how Nadal never was able to straight set Novak in the last couple of years, FH down-the-line or not.
 
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Cup8489

G.O.A.T.
Actually what it tells me is that Djokovic has the game to run over Nadal in straight sets...but Nadal needs to use his mentality to grind out a non-straight set win over Djokovic (even if he supposedly uses the FH down-the-line more)....which is true, seeing how Nadal never was able to straight set Novak in the last couple of years, FH down-the-line or not.

Agreed. In the slam matches, Nadal brings his fight-or-die mentality, and it's enough to level the playing field and produce matches like FO 2013 and USO 2013. If he doesn't bring that mentality.. Straight set wins to Djokovic: MC 2013, Beijing 2013, WTf 2013, Miami 2014.
 

Kenshin

Semi-Pro
Actually what it tells me is that Djokovic has the game to run over Nadal in straight sets...but Nadal needs to use his mentality to grind out a non-straight set win over Djokovic (even if he supposedly uses the FH down-the-line more)....which is true, seeing how Nadal never was able to straight set Novak in the last couple of years, FH down-the-line or not.

This is not true. Monte Carlo Masters 1000 (6-3,6-1), Rome Masters 1000 (7-5, 6-3). Thats already two matches that Nadal beat Djokovic in straight sets in last couple of years. I wanted to add FO in 2012 because before the rain, Nadal was winning quite comfortably. The last 3 matches was on Djokovic's favorite surface and he is supposed to win. If I were Djokovic's fan, I will wait until the clay court season to draw any concludion. Let's see if Djokovic can beat Nadal on his turf, red clay.
 
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Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
This is not true. Monte Carlo Masters 1000 (6-3,6-1), Rome Masters 1000 (7-5, 6-3). Thats already two matches that Nadal beat Djokovic in straight sets in last couple of years. I wanted to add FO in 2012 because before the rain, Nadal was winning quite comfortably. The last 3 matches was on Djokovic's favorite surface and he is supposed to win. If I were Djokovic's fan, I will wait until the clay court season to draw any concludion. Let's see if Djokovic can beat Nadal on his turf, red clay.

You make out like Djokovic has never beaten Nadal on red clay- he did so less than 12 months ago!
 

Kenshin

Semi-Pro
You make out like Djokovic has never beaten Nadal on red clay- he did so less than 12 months ago!

You believe Djokovic is now the favorite on clay even against Nadal??? I was responeding to the above poster who thinks Nadal has to grind every match to win against Djokovic which is not true.
 
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Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
You believe Djokovic is now favorite on clay against Nadal??? I was responeding to the above poster who thinks Nadal has to grind every match to win against Djokovic which is not true.

I simply stated that Djokovic beat Nadal on clay less than 12 months ago. I never said anywhere in my post that I now think he's the favourite on that surface against Nadal so I have no idea where you got that from. :confused:
 

Kenshin

Semi-Pro
I simply stated that Djokovic beat Nadal on clay less than 12 months ago. I never said anywhere in my post that I now think he's the favourite on that surface against Nadal so I have no idea where you got that from. :confused:

I am sorry if I misinterpret your post but you took my post wrong too. What I meant was lets see how Djokovic will fare on clay this year against Nadal. I didn't say Djokovic has never won against Nadal on clay.
 
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