Singles return strategy for slow slice serves

[time_fly]

I play a few people regularly who hit very slow, low slice serves. These are "weak serves" but because of the slice they tend to stay at or below net height. These players are used to competing with this type of serve and generally they are looking to pull the returner into an awkward spot in no-man's land with the serve, and then they recover quickly behind the baseline and try to redirect the return deep to the open side of the court. Part of my problem with dealing with these opponents is that I am primarily a topspin player, so the one major option I don't have in my toolbox is a reliable drop shot or low, short-angle slice return. Aside from working on my touch / slice shots, what are some other return strategies that fit my game better? My topspin gives me the ability to safely clear the net and get the ball to drop with an aggressive swing, but because of the court position I need to be mindful of having time to recover afterwards. Where should I target? How aggressively should I swing?

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

You need a slice, you can learn it, it's like a volley in a way. If it's impossible for you to learn a slice, there will be many other issues that will prevent you from winning way more important than this type of serve.

If you 100% can't slice and never will, I'd return deep to the middle, think of it as an approach shot or short court kind of.

If they always return to the open court, match the angle of the serve, albeit deep since you can't hit short, in your return making them at least hit a low percentage down the line shot as you pull them out wide too.

 

[time_fly]

You need a slice, you can learn it, it's like a volley in a way. If it's impossible for you to learn a slice, there will be many other issues that will prevent you from winning way more important than this type of serve.

If you 100% can't slice and never will, I'd return deep to the middle, think of it as an approach shot or short court kind of.

If they always return to the open court, match the angle of the serve, albeit deep since you can't hit short, in your return making them at least hit a low percentage down the line shot as you pull them out wide too.

I have slice forehand and backhand ground strokes. These are secondary shots for me. What I don't have is a touch slice return of serve that can reliably clear the net and land too short and low for the opponent to easily put away. The types of players that use this serve strategy are pretty quick; they depend on counter-punching aggressive returns and can get to poor attempts at drop shots pretty easily.

Here are some things I typically I try:
1. Deep and heavy down the middle. Against most opponents this is a good move, but these guys pretty much expect it. Their weak service motion means they have no momentum into the court, so they recover behind the center quickly. They will try to redirect the ball on the rise with a compact block/swing that leverages my pace, steering the ball towards the opposite sideline and hitting it pretty frequently. This is just a grooved play for them since "deep and heavy down the middle" is the classic low risk return on a short, low serve.

2. Swing hard for the corners. Can be a winner sometimes, they can still get there and redirect it sometimes, and I'm going to miss sometimes.

3. Hit deep with a relaxed swing, try to add a little more shape and less pace so I can recover my court position and they don't have as much incoming velocity to redirect. This generally works to start the rally, but I've taken a weak serve and ended up in a neutral or even slightly defensive position on the next ball. I feel sad.

 

[ChaelAZ]

I have a few guys I play regularly that have serves like this. Only thing I do adjust my stance lower and I start my racquet down about knee level. Both help keep my under the ball and save prep/movement time.

 

[10sbeast888]

I play a few people regularly who hit very slow, low slice serves. These are "weak serves" but because of the slice they tend to stay at or below net height. These players are used to competing with this type of serve and generally they are looking to pull the returner into an awkward spot in no-man's land with the serve, and then they recover quickly behind the baseline and try to redirect the return deep to the open side of the court. Part of my problem with dealing with these opponents is that I am primarily a topspin player, so the one major option I don't have in my toolbox is a reliable drop shot or low, short-angle slice return. Aside from working on my touch / slice shots, what are some other return strategies that fit my game better? My topspin gives me the ability to safely clear the net and get the ball to drop with an aggressive swing, but because of the court position I need to be mindful of having time to recover afterwards. Where should I target? How aggressively should I swing?

that sounds like my serve lol..

what about just a top spin return down the middle.

 

[Thiemster]

high deep rolling forehands will give you time to recover and also push them back, unless they are very good serve n volleyers

 

[time_fly]

high deep rolling forehands will give you time to recover and also push them back, unless they are very good serve n volleyers

Yeah I edited my reply above with what I normally try and this is the safest option although I feel annoyed that I didn't really take advantage of the serve; I just started (at best) a neutral rally depending on what they are able to do with my shot.

 

[10sbeast888]

Yeah I edited my reply above with what I normally try and this is the safest option although I feel annoyed that I didn't really take advantage of the serve; I just started (at best) a neutral rally depending on what they are able to do with my shot.

can't expect a huge advantage. if you chip/topspin DTL or to the body and follow up with a solid volley, you can expect about a 60% win rate..

you will be ahead overall, but it's not like the guy hits a serve like this and he's gonna lose 9 points out of 10 to you.

 

[Bill Lobsalot]

Take the ball early and head to the net.

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

I have slice forehand and backhand ground strokes. These are secondary shots for me. What I don't have is a touch slice return of serve that can reliably clear the net and land too short and low for the opponent to easily put away. The types of players that use this serve strategy are pretty quick; they depend on counter-punching aggressive returns and can get to poor attempts at drop shots pretty easily.

Here are some things I typically I try:
1. Deep and heavy down the middle. Against most opponents this is a good move, but these guys pretty much expect it. Their weak service motion means they have no momentum into the court, so they recover behind the center quickly. They will try to redirect the ball on the rise with a compact block/swing that leverages my pace, steering the ball towards the opposite sideline and hitting it pretty frequently. This is just a grooved play for them since "deep and heavy down the middle" is the classic low risk return on a short, low serve.

2. Swing hard for the corners. Can be a winner sometimes, they can still get there and redirect it sometimes, and I'm going to miss sometimes.

3. Hit deep with a relaxed swing, try to add a little more shape and less pace so I can recover my court position and they don't have as much incoming velocity to redirect. This generally works to start the rally, but I've taken a weak serve and ended up in a neutral or even slightly defensive position on the next ball. I feel sad.

Ok, then 70% shot topspin deep to their weaker side or better yet, if you can slice deep to their weaker side they can't at least use the power against you, perhaps slice to the backhand and come into the net or slice to the weaker side or BH and recover.

 

[nyta2]

I have slice forehand and backhand ground strokes. These are secondary shots for me. What I don't have is a touch slice return of serve that can reliably clear the net and land too short and low for the opponent to easily put away. The types of players that use this serve strategy are pretty quick; they depend on counter-punching aggressive returns and can get to poor attempts at drop shots pretty easily.

my goto neutralizing options in that scenario...
1. slice deep middle... kinda floaty... i want it slow and keep them back, which gives me time to recover to middle
2. topspin moonball deep middle... also kinda floaty... requires better footwork and knee bend to get under the ball..., and similarly buys e time to recover to middle
3. lob deep (slice or top)

once i get feel, and timing for the serve...
1. slice deep to ad/deuce side, used as approach.. .typically only the serve lands shorti can catch it at the top of the bounce
2. topspin drive to a corner... kinda risky if ball is below the net, and i can't get the precision/power to put them in trouble (becuase i will typically be out of position)

i never intentionallly go for a short ball (slice or top)... too risky... {don't own the shot, leaves me out of position, improves their position, etc...} - presuming i'm playing a similar level or better player

 

[ratherlosethanpush]

Dtl and transition in not an option for you?

 

[Dragy]

Aye, familiar challenge. I usually like to stay behind the baseline and move in on return. But such slower slice or some backspin serves dip too soon.

What was insightful for me, these serves still peak hip height. If they have no faster option to catch you off-guard, you can pretty much camp in NML and make forward move to intercept the peak. Just spend some return points to calibrate perfect spots for this.

Now when you play a hip-high (or sometimes just higher) ball from NML, or close to the service line, and in full balance — it’s a putaway option already, or very strong approach opportunity. Man up and go for it. Even if you only make like 2/3 of those shots, you are at least 50/50 winning the point. Likely way more, after some practice and dialing your shots.

Don’t let them toy with you, player!

 

[socallefty]

What I’ve found on returns is that depth is key to neutralizing the server’s advantage. If you can hit deep even if it is right back to the server, they typically can hit only a neutral +1 shot and not an offensive shot. If you can dropshot very short, that is a good return too, but it is hard to do off good serves. If you return it at a middle depth especially towards the middle of the court, that is when the server can take over the point with their +1 shot and that should be avoided.

So I will hit slice or drives on my return depending on which one will give me the deep depth I’m looking for. Often I can drive the return on low slices if I stand back and make sure I get low to start my swing. If I stand in, sometimes I have time only to slice and if there is no pace on the serve, it can be tough for me to get the return deep enough to bother the server. So, my Plan A is to stand at a distance where I can drive most returns except body serves. Others with better slice returns might even prefer to slice.

 

[time_fly]

What I’ve found on returns is that depth is key to neutralizing the server’s advantage. If you can hit deep even if it is right back to the server, they typically can hit only a neutral +1 shot and not an offensive shot.

Yes, although one thing that is interesting about this type of serve is that the server usually isn't driving into the court when they hit it. It is mostly done with the arm and upper body. When I watch my friend who serves this way play big returners, I can see he throws himself into reverse the second his serve leaves his racquet so he's generally 5 or 6 feet behind the baseline by the time the returner is making the return. So his ability to handle deep returns is perhaps better than expected for a more normal server.

 

[toth]

Could you take these slice serve with your forehand?

 

[socallefty]

I can see he throws himself into reverse the second his serve leaves his racquet so he's generally 5 or 6 feet behind the baseline by the time the returner is making the return. So his ability to handle deep returns is perhaps better than expected for a more normal server.

But he is not going to be on the offense with his +1 shot if he is so deep behind the baseline in rec tennis and the point pattern is automatically going to go back to neutral or maybe the returner can even have an advantage with better court position.

 

[johnmccabe]

One issue with slower serves for me is that my feet can get stuck after split step in an open stance. It feels like I have extra time but I'm not in perfect position to strike it. Footwork-wise, is it a good idea to take an extra step to step inside foot forward into semi open or even closed stance and then hit?

 

[Dragy]

One issue with slower serves for me is that my feet can get stuck after split step in an open stance. It feels like I have extra time but I'm not in perfect position to strike it. Footwork-wise, is it a good idea to take an extra step to step inside foot forward into semi open or even closed stance and then hit?

It depends, if it's an occasional slow serve, which caught you by surprise - well, treat it like a surprise UU serve, do whatever is needed.

If it's his typical serve, or typical 2nd serve, adjust your positioning, anticipation and intension during first couple of return games and take advantage of it.

 

[ppma]

Just put it in the other side of the net. I still play with my father and has this kind lf serve. I learned not to attack it. Even if it's weak, getting an advatage from it is hard.

 

[time_fly]

But he is not going to be on the offense with his +1 shot if he is so deep behind the baseline in rec tennis and the point pattern is automatically going to go back to neutral or maybe the returner can even have an advantage with better court position.

Rec tennis is so interesting. Everyone’s games have flaws but if they compete a lot they learn to work around them. This particular player tends to hit low over the net and medium pace. Flat on the forehand and slice on the backhand. As you can imagine that means he often hits short. So what he has learned to do is hit a lot of short angles and focus on placement. If I return from the deuce side up the middle, he’s pretty good at redirecting the next ball near the opposite sideline. If I were a 6’4” pro myself it would still probably be too slow to cause problems but sadly I’m a 52 year old rec player too.

 

[socallefty]

If I return from the deuce side up the middle, he’s pretty good at redirecting the next ball near the opposite sideline. If I were a 6’4” pro myself it would still probably be too slow to cause problems but sadly I’m a 52 year old rec player myself.

I usually have the problem of servers being able to hit short angles on their +1 that bothers me only if I leave my return in the middle-middle of the court and not if I hit it deep. Deep middle return usually means it is not possible to generate great angles if my shot has decent heaviness to it and their +1 short angle attempt will be closer to the middle of the court. Maybe your return needs more depth or pace/spin or both. If he really is that good at redirecting his +1 off good deep returns, consider coming to the net yourself after the return since he stands so far back.

I am 56 myself and play a lot of younger guys in singles.

 

[Dragy]

Rec tennis is so interesting. Everyone’s games have flaws but if they compete a lot they learn to work around them. This particular player tends to hit low over the net and medium pace. Flat on the forehand and slice on the backhand. As you can imagine that means he often hits short. So what he has learned to do is hit a lot of short angles and focus on placement. If I return from the deuce side up the middle, he’s pretty good at redirecting the next ball near the opposite sideline. If I were a 6’4” pro myself it would still probably be too slow to cause problems but sadly I’m a 52 year old rec player too.

Have you tried to use loft and heaviness combined against such player? To make his preferred low hitting more troublesome to execute?

 

[10sbeast888]

rec tennis is where the fun is!

all them high performance guys college or pros are under so much pressure to perform, but we rec people can do whatever the heck we want lol.

 

[Shroud]

I play a few people regularly who hit very slow, low slice serves. These are "weak serves" but because of the slice they tend to stay at or below net height. These players are used to competing with this type of serve and generally they are looking to pull the returner into an awkward spot in no-man's land with the serve, and then they recover quickly behind the baseline and try to redirect the return deep to the open side of the court. Part of my problem with dealing with these opponents is that I am primarily a topspin player, so the one major option I don't have in my toolbox is a reliable drop shot or low, short-angle slice return. Aside from working on my touch / slice shots, what are some other return strategies that fit my game better? My topspin gives me the ability to safely clear the net and get the ball to drop with an aggressive swing, but because of the court position I need to be mindful of having time to recover afterwards. Where should I target? How aggressively should I swing?

can you sabr?