SINNER’s DOMINANT return game performance at the 2024 USO

ghostofMecir

ghostofMecir

Legend
Jannick Sinner put on a dominant return performance at this year’s USO. We all saw his opponents struggle to stay in rallies vs. him, i.e., needing to redline just to stay in games because all it took was one massive Sinner FH or BH to change a rally from neutral to positive.

Over the last 33 years starting from 1991, we have reliable stats from ATP matches. In these 33 years, 66 hardcourt slams have been played and ONLY 13 times has a player won 45%+ of all his return points during a hardcourt slam that he won. Djokovic is the king of this stat as he has hardcourt slams that he was runner up in which he still dominated on return, e.g., the 2013 USO, 47.0%, and the 2012 USO, 47.0%. Out of the 66 hardcourt slams that have been won over the past 33 years, 43 had a player win 40% of his return points—Djokovic has 11 of these slam wins.

Return points won % (RPW%) at a hardcourt slam
  1. Agassi, 2003 AO, 50.9%
  2. Djokovic, 2011 USO, 48.5%
  3. Djokovic, 2012 AO, 48.4%
  4. Federer, 2007 AO, 47.3%
  5. Agassi, 2001 AO, 46.4%
  6. Djokovic, 2019 AO, 46.2%
  7. Sinner, 2024 USO, 46.1%
  8. Djokovic, 2011 AO, 46.0%
  9. Medvedev, 2021 USO, 46.0%
  10. Djokovic, 2023 AO, 45.9%
  11. Djokovic, 2008 AO, 45.5%
  12. Agassi, 1995 AO, 45.2%
  13. Federer, 2006 USO, 45.1%
Sinner doesn’t have the highs that Agassi or Djokovic or even a Federer on return, but just like his overall game, it is just so highly consistent. Sinner won 42%+ of his return points vs. EVERY opponent, something that has only been done once before in the past 33 years.

Minimum percentage of Return points won % (RPW%) in any match at a hardcourt slam
  1. Agassi, 2003 AO, 43.5%+ (won at least 43.5% of return points in every match at the 2003 AO)
  2. Sinner, 2024 USO, 42.0%+
  3. Djokovic, 2012 AO, 40.9%+
  4. Djokovic, 2019 AO, 40.2%+
  5. Federer, 2007 AO, 39.6%+
  6. Djokovic, 2011 AO, 38.1%+
  7. Medvedev, 2021 USO, 38%+
  8. Djokovic, 2011 USO, 37.2%+
Obviously there’s a quite a bit of variance between opponents, i.e., one (or more) big server can skew the data, so the best measure would be relative return performance based on how a player outperformed on return based on how his opponents perform on serve but I didn’t have time to do that,

Here's everyone over 40% RPW

Rafter, 1997 USO, 44.7%
Nadal, 2013 USO, 44.7%
Nadal, 2017 USO, 44.7%
Agassi, 1994 USO, 44.6%
Djokovic, 2023 USO, 44.6%
Edberg, 1992 USO, 44.5%
Courier, 1993 AO, 44.2%
Courier, 1992 AO, 44.1%
Korda, 1998 AO, 44.0%
Del Potro, 2009 USO, 43.8%
Federer, 2005 USO, 43.7%
Djokovic, 2016 AO, 43.7%
Murray, 2012 USO, 43.6%
Djokovic, 2018 USO, 43.5%
Djokovic, 2015 USO, 43.8%
Federer, 2006 AO, 43.3%
Hewitt, 2001 USO, 43.3%
Edberg, 1991 USO, 43.1%
Sampras, 1993 USO, 43.0%
Federer, 2004 AO, 42.9%
Thiem, 2020 USO, 42.9%
Federer, 2004 USO, 42.8%
Rafter, 1998 USO, 42.7%
Carlos, 2022 USO, 42.6
Sampras, 1994 AO, 42.5%
Djokovic, 2020 AO, 42.3%
Sinner, 2025 AO, 42.0%
Sampras, 1995 USO, 40.4%
Becker, 1991 AO, 40.3
Sampras, 1997 AO, 40.1%
Becker, 1996 AO, 40.1%
 
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So you are saying that it is the end of the road for Djokovic ? He is stuck on 24 with that 82 year old Grandma ?
 
That was a very weak field for Agassi at 2003 AO though. Have to take that into consideration when you compare his run to stronger runs on that list.
 
NeutralFan said:
No, he's saying Sinner has become the monster that will go down as one of the best in history.
Click to expand...

If what you are saying is true then it means :

01. Sinner is the new version of Federer who changed his career around remarkably in his early 20s
02. Alcaraz is a better version of Hewitt who peaked before this new Federer and then became a pigeon.
 
Razer said:
If what you are saying is true then it means :

01. Sinner is the new version of Federer who changed his career around remarkably in his early 20s
02. Alcaraz is a better version of Hewitt who peaked before this new Federer and then became a pigeon.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily, Sinner and Carlos both can easily get 10+ slams if they don't let anyone else win ,which is plausible.
 
Razer said:
If what you are saying is true then it means :

01. Sinner is the new version of Federer who changed his career around remarkably in his early 20s
02. Alcaraz is a better version of Hewitt who peaked before this new Federer and then became a pigeon.
Click to expand...
There are parallels, but since Sinner has yet to win a natural surface slam, it’s harder to say yet how the Sinneraz rivalry will play out. Hardcourt specialist against grassaraz.
 
travlerajm said:
There are parallels, but since Sinner has yet to win a natural surface slam, it’s harder to say yet how the Sinneraz rivalry will play out. Hardcourt specialist against grassaraz.
Click to expand...

I think the next year 2025 will be very crucial for Sinner-Raz rivalry, whoever gains an edge over the other next year will probably dictate the rivalry for the future after that. As of now I see Alcaraz having an edge over Sinner when they clash against each other in slam matches.
 
Like Alcaraz might end up winning in double digits and we'll still be calling him Hewitt reborn because of some screwed up rebirth parallel prophecy compulsion.
 
nolefam_2024 said:
Nadal is not in this list at all..

He is not greatest returner by a long shot but it's on clay where a return of serve is almost like regular groundstrokes he wins huge
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I wouldn't say a return on clay is almost like a regular groundstoke, it does require a specific tactic and technique to masterize its execution. Nadal is the greatest clay returner ever.

A little bit shocking to find out he's not on this particular stat. Ralph has struggled returning on grass, but on the former ATP return rating of the ATP webpage he used to be among the most succesful hard court returners
 
nolefam_2024 said:
Nadal is not in this list at all..

He is not greatest returner by a long shot but it's on clay where a return of serve is almost like regular groundstrokes he wins huge
Click to expand...

Nadal doesn’t have the best return instincts but once in a rally, good luck.

Here’s everyone over 40% RPW

Rafter, 1997 USO, 44.7%
Nadal, 2013 USO, 44.7%
Nadal, 2017 USO, 44.7%
Agassi, 1994 USO, 44.6%
Djokovic, 2023 USO, 44.6%
Edberg, 1992 USO, 44.5%
Courier, 1993 AO, 44.2%
Courier, 1992 AO, 44.1%
Korda, 1998 AO, 44.0%
Del Potro, 2009 USO, 43.8%
Federer, 2005 USO, 43.7%
Djokovic, 2016 AO, 43.7%
Murray, 2012 USO, 43.6%
Djokovic, 2018 USO, 43.5%
Djokovic, 2015 USO, 43.8%
Federer, 2006 AO, 43.3%
Hewitt, 2001 USO, 43.3%
Edberg, 1991 USO, 43.1%
Sampras, 1993 USO, 43.0%
Federer, 2004 AO, 42.9%
Thiem, 2020 USO, 42.9%
Federer, 2004 USO, 42.8%
Rafter, 1998 USO, 42.7%
Carlos, 2022 USO, 42.6
Sampras, 1994 AO, 42.5%
Djokovic, 2020 AO, 42.3%
Sampras, 1995 USO, 40.4%
Becker, 1991 AO, 40.3
Sampras, 1997 AO, 40.1%
Becker, 1996 AO, 40.1%
 
nolefam_2024 said:
Nadal is not in this list at all..

He is not greatest returner by a long shot but it's on clay where a return of serve is almost like regular groundstrokes he wins huge
Click to expand...

NoleFam said:
Sinner's run at the USO was stronger than Agassi's 2003 AO though. He actually beat some top players. Agassi only beat one player in the top 20.
Click to expand...

USO2017 without facing any top25, but still not in the list, SMH
 
Sport said:
And others will keep calling Sinner Berdych 2.0, even if Jannik were to win double digit Slams.

At this point that is a meme, like calling Federer Santoro with a serve.
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Agreed. I can't see how you look at Sinner play and do not see greatness of a rare calibre.
 
Sport said:
I wouldn't say a return on clay is almost like a regular groundstoke, it does require a specific tactic and technique to masterize its execution. Nadal is the greatest clay returner ever.

A little bit shocking to find out he's not on this particular stat. Ralph has struggled returning on grass, but on the former ATP return rating of the ATP webpage he used to be among the most succesful hard court returners
Click to expand...

Its not shocking at all brother.

djokovic-returns-1.png


See this. Nadal overwhelmingly tries to get the point in first and then he can start the play from neutral. Just like Murray.

Djokovic, Kei, Andre they get to attack the return from get go. Especially Andre. When he gets return in play, he usually wins the point. The difference is more than 2% between Andre and Rafa. If Rafa is better baseliner than Andre , then he should have won more points from baseline don't you think so?

Overall Andre will win less points but he is from 90s era where Servers were at huge advantage. So compare Nole and Rafa. Both won similar return points but Nole is far more aggressive. When he gets serve in play, he wins more than 1% of points. Rafa is again better baseliner than Djokovic then what is the difference?

Come here. Look at return aggression, considering only return winners and return errors. As with RallyAgg, winners and errors are separated, and each rate is normalized relative to tour average. ReturnAgg is the average of those two normalized rates, multiplied by 100 for the sake of readability. The higher the number, the more aggressive the returner, and tour average is zero.


Agassi -10
Djokovic -33
Nadal -57

Why is that ? Because Nadal returns the point to just get it back in play and then he starts to use his baseline advantage vs opponent.

You can't do that as much on grass and hard courts which is why his return points won drop so low on grass and hard courts. Especially vs punchers like Djokovic, Fognini, Nishikori?, Daveydenko, Delpo etc.

Not vs passive players like Murray Zverev and also not vs servebots because they are just so bad players that once Nadal returns the serve, its game over for them.
 
RPW by surface

PlayerHardClayGrassTotal
Aagasi4243.238.841.7
Federer4040.638.239.7
Nadal40.446.737.442.4
Djokovic4243.839.542.1
Murray41.442.439.241.2
Sinner last 5240.841.436.340.7

Nadal on clay is so far ahead of second best Djokovic. 3% points almost.
While on grass Murray is second best behind Djokovic.
Andre is tied with Nole on hard courts and is superb returner. Yet he has second worst stat while Nadal has best stats. Do you see it now?

I already created a thread for this in the past. Nadal, just like Tsitsipas gets the ball back in play and then win a lot more on clay but can't do the same on hard courts and grass.

Clay gives them superpowers

There are many players who play well on all surfaces. But everyone has a preference. UTS gives a great breakdown of players based on their matches won. I am trying to find some pattern. Let's see. Taking only the most accomplished players who are also active. Name Favorite Surface HLD %...
tt.tennis-warehouse.com tt.tennis-warehouse.com
 
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ghostofMecir said:
Jannick Sinner put on a dominant return performance at this year’s USO. We all saw his opponents struggle to stay in rallies vs. him, i.e., needing to redline just to stay in games because all it took was one massive Sinner FH or BH to change a rally from neutral to positive.

Over the last 33 years starting from 1991, we have reliable stats from ATP matches. In these 33 years, 66 hardcourt slams have been played and ONLY 13 times has a player won 45%+ of all his return points during a hardcourt slam that he won. Djokovic is the king of this stat as he has hardcourt slams that he was runner up in which he still dominated on return, e.g., the 2013 USO, 47.0%, and the 2012 USO, 47.0%. Out of the 66 hardcourt slams that have been won over the past 33 years, 43 had a player win 40% of his return points—Djokovic has 11 of these slam wins.
Click to expand...

Excellent thread. For now I only want to point out that in over the last decade the importance of the serve has increased. I think the return game of Sinner, but also De Minaur or Alcaraz is thus undervalued while their serve percentages might be overvalued.

GDrTcG1XsAAqI4t
 
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Sport said:
I wouldn't say a return on clay is almost like a regular groundstoke, it does require a specific tactic and technique to masterize its execution. Nadal is the greatest clay returner ever.

A little bit shocking to find out he's not on this particular stat. Ralph has struggled returning on grass, but on the former ATP return rating of the ATP webpage he used to be among the most succesful hard court returners
Click to expand...
nolefam_2024 said:
RPW by surface

PlayerHardClayGrassTotal
Aagasi4243.238.841.7
Federer4040.638.239.7
Nadal40.446.737.442.4
Djokovic4243.839.542.1
Murray41.442.439.241.2
Sinner last 5240.841.436.340.7

Nadal on clay is so far ahead of second best Djokovic. 3% points almost.
While on grass Murray is second best behind Djokovic.
Andre is tied with Nole on hard courts and is superb returner. Yet he has second worst stat while Nadal has best stats. Do you see it now?

I already created a thread for this in the past. Nadal, just like Tsitsipas gets the ball back in play and then win a lot more on clay but can't do the same on hard courts and grass.

Clay gives them superpowers

There are many players who play well on all surfaces. But everyone has a preference. UTS gives a great breakdown of players based on their matches won. I am trying to find some pattern. Let's see. Taking only the most accomplished players who are also active. Name Favorite Surface HLD %...
tt.tennis-warehouse.com tt.tennis-warehouse.com
Click to expand...
Nadal was susceptible to the serve out wide on deuce court and in general didn’t have great return instincts, which, of course, matter much less on clay.

Frankly, it’s a testament to Rafito that he did not possess a great serve nor did he possess great return instincts, yet he was such a dominant force in tennis history.

At Wimbledon, the numbers can skew even more due to hiw effective served can be. For example, Hewitt, an ATG great returner who figured out even Pete’s serve and neutralized it, didn’t have to face a single great/big server in 2002. Federer in 2009 played Ivo, Roddick, and Soderling.

Here are the Wimbledon title runs from 1991 to 2024
Title run Wimbledon RPW%
  1. Hewitt, 2002, 45.2% of return points won
  2. Djokovic, 2018, 43.4
  3. Federer, 2012, 43.0
  4. Federer, 2006, 42.5
  5. Murray, 2016, 42.3
  6. Federer, 2004, 41.9
  7. Federer, 2003, 41.9
  8. Murray, 2013, 41.8
  9. Djokovic, 2022, 41.5
  10. Sampras, 1999, 41.4
  11. Djokovic, 2021, 41.3
  12. Djokovic, 2011, 41.1
  13. Djokovic, 2019, 41.0
  14. Alcaraz, 2024, 40.7
  15. Alcaraz, 2024, 40.7
  16. Federer, 2005, 40.2
  17. Federer, 2017, 40.1
  18. Nadal, 2008, 39.5
  19. Agassi, 1992, 39.4
  20. Krajicek, 1996, 39.3
  21. Sampras, 1997, 39.1
  22. Sampras, 1994, 39.0
  23. Federer, 2007, 38.8
  24. Djokovic, 2015, 38.4
  25. Sampras, 1995, 38.2
  26. Djokovic, 2014, 37.9
  27. Sampras, 1993, 37.7
  28. Stich, 1991, 37.4
  29. Sampras, 1998, 37.2
  30. Nadal, 2010, 36.8
  31. Sampras, 2000, 36.6
  32. Federer, 2009, 33.7
  33. Ivanisevic, 2001, 31.1
 
ghostofMecir said:
Nadal was susceptible to the serve out wide on deuce court and in general didn’t have great return instincts, which, of course, matter much less on clay.

Frankly, it’s a testament to Rafito that he did not possess a great serve nor did he possess great return instincts, yet he was such a dominant force in tennis history.

At Wimbledon, the numbers can skew even more due to hiw effective served can be. For example, Hewitt, an ATG great returner who figured out even Pete’s serve and neutralized it, didn’t have to face a single great/big server in 2002. Federer in 2009 played Ivo, Roddick, and Soderling.

Here are the Wimbledon title runs from 1991 to 2024
Title run Wimbledon RPW%
  1. Hewitt, 2002, 45.2% of return points won
  2. Djokovic, 2018, 43.4
  3. Federer, 2012, 43.0
  4. Federer, 2006, 42.5
  5. Murray, 2016, 42.3
  6. Federer, 2004, 41.9
  7. Federer, 2003, 41.9
  8. Murray, 2013, 41.8
  9. Djokovic, 2022, 41.5
  10. Sampras, 1999, 41.4
  11. Djokovic, 2021, 41.3
  12. Djokovic, 2011, 41.1
  13. Djokovic, 2019, 41.0
  14. Alcaraz, 2024, 40.7
  15. Alcaraz, 2024, 40.7
  16. Federer, 2005, 40.2
  17. Federer, 2017, 40.1
  18. Nadal, 2008, 39.5
  19. Agassi, 1992, 39.4
  20. Krajicek, 1996, 39.3
  21. Sampras, 1997, 39.1
  22. Sampras, 1994, 39.0
  23. Federer, 2007, 38.8
  24. Djokovic, 2015, 38.4
  25. Sampras, 1995, 38.2
  26. Djokovic, 2014, 37.9
  27. Sampras, 1993, 37.7
  28. Stich, 1991, 37.4
  29. Sampras, 1998, 37.2
  30. Nadal, 2010, 36.8
  31. Sampras, 2000, 36.6
  32. Federer, 2009, 33.7
  33. Ivanisevic, 2001, 31.1
Click to expand...
He is third best baseliner in my thread

Ahead of aagassi
 
ghostofMecir said:
Nadal was susceptible to the serve out wide on deuce court and in general didn’t have great return instincts, which, of course, matter much less on clay.

Frankly, it’s a testament to Rafito that he did not possess a great serve nor did he possess great return instincts, yet he was such a dominant force in tennis history.

At Wimbledon, the numbers can skew even more due to hiw effective served can be. For example, Hewitt, an ATG great returner who figured out even Pete’s serve and neutralized it, didn’t have to face a single great/big server in 2002. Federer in 2009 played Ivo, Roddick, and Soderling.
Click to expand...

Here are the FEDERER Wimbledon title runs from 1991 to 2024
Title run Wimbledon RPW%

  1. Federer, 2012, 43.0
  2. Federer, 2006, 42.5
  3. Federer, 2004, 41.9
  4. Federer, 2003, 41.9
  5. Federer, 2005, 40.2
  6. Federer, 2017, 40.1
  7. Federer, 2007, 38.8
  8. Federer, 2009, 33.7

Thoughtful post, of course opponents matter greatly but I wonder if there is a correlation with the serve performance*.

I think a good way to look at the 'baseline' quality of a player are the win percentages of the longer rallies. Helps with the perspective.

Also depending on the other guy...
 
Sorted the guys with more than a hundred matches charted according of the 10+ win%.* The relative percentages and the trends are perhaps more revealing. Sampras ranked so highly is like Karlovic a statistical artefact when you consider his 7-9 W%.Beware of the sample bias°

Potency from both wings is certainly an important factor as this group scores far higher than your average ATP player but great all-court game can compensate and sheer fitness is key. FHP/Match and FPH/100 offer great insight, see the Fedal dualism!


°Sinner and Alcaraz have a huge (negative) youth bias as they are just entering or are before their prime. The big 3, especially Djokovic has a (negative) age bias as a higher % of their charted games are post-prime.

*Borg is Borg

Updated weekly(ish). Last update: 2024-09-09;
Player​
Matches​
1-3 W%​
4-6 W%​
7-9 W%​
10+ W%​
FH/GS​
BH Slice%​
FHP/Match​
FHP/100​
BHP/Match​
BHP/100​
29​
54.0%​
52.5%​
50.8%​
56.8%​
45.8%​
12.1%​
11.8​
6.3​
11.9​
6.0​
163​
51.2%​
54.6%​
54.8%​
55.7%​
52.8%​
16.0%​
10.4​
8.0​
2.5​
2.3​
191​
52.9%​
53.2%​
51.9%​
54.3%​
51.1%​
6.1%​
9.0​
6.3​
2.8​
2.1​
489​
51.2%​
54.5%​
55.0%​
54.0%​
55.0%​
17.2%​
15.5​
8.8​
2.6​
2.1​
570​
52.6%​
54.1%​
53.8%​
53.7%​
49.0%​
14.1%​
12.1​
7.8​
4.3​
3.0​
114​
47.3%​
52.0%​
56.2%​
53.7%​
49.6%​
14.7%​
6.3​
5.2​
4.2​
3.7​
647​
53.3%​
54.5%​
50.0%​
53.3%​
48.8%​
37.0%​
9.9​
8.0​
0.1​
0.1​
280​
52.6%​
52.3%​
52.0%​
53.2%​
45.8%​
7.7%​
6.7​
4.8​
5.4​
3.4​
185​
49.9%​
52.4%​
56.3%​
52.9%​
46.6%​
9.3%​
12.4​
9.5​
7.6​
5.6​
184​
52.3%​
54.0%​
43.6%​
52.9%​
39.3%​
33.7%​
5.8​
8.4​
0.3​
0.5​
 
Rovesciarete said:
Here are the FEDERER Wimbledon title runs from 1991 to 2024
Title run Wimbledon RPW%

  1. Federer, 2012, 43.0
  2. Federer, 2006, 42.5
  3. Federer, 2004, 41.9
  4. Federer, 2003, 41.9
  5. Federer, 2005, 40.2
  6. Federer, 2017, 40.1
  7. Federer, 2007, 38.8
  8. Federer, 2009, 33.7

Thoughtful post, of course opponents matter greatly but I wonder if there is a correlation with the serve performance*.

I think a good way to look at the 'baseline' quality of a player are the win percentages of the longer rallies. Helps with the perspective.

Also depending on the other guy...
Click to expand...
Also grass depends far more on weather than hc

For example 2018 was exceptional year where big servers and great baseliners both played great. It was very hot summer in Europe. The ground beneath the grass hardened so the ball started jumping up a lot. Bad for serve and volley experts like fed.

Anderson Isner servebots semi 6 hr 36 min
Djokovic Nadal baseliners 5hr 15 min

I see 2018 was the year nole won highest return points on grass so something to think about.
 
Crazy that Fed has a Slam in the top 5 here when his return isn’t really something he’s known for.

(His first serve return is, however, one of the best out there.)
 
Third Serve said:
Crazy that Fed has a Slam in the top 5 here when his return isn’t really something he’s known for.

(His first serve return is, however, one of the best out there.)
Click to expand...

His return numbers on grass were pretty ridiculous in 2003 and 2004 IIRC.

Think Fed's return numbers overall noticeably dropped after 2007 AO. He wasn't one of the best returners career-wise but in the period of 2004 til 2007 AO, he was.
 
zagor said:
His return numbers on grass were pretty ridiculous in 2003 and 2004 IIRC.

Think Fed's return numbers overall noticeably dropped after 2007 AO. He wasn't one of the best returners career-wise but in the period of 2004 til 2007 AO, he was.
Click to expand...
Yeah I think his return numbers at Wimbledon in those years were up there or better than even peak Djokovic, and he tended to face stronger servers to boot. After 2006 his numbers dipped a bit, and especially after 2007.
 
zagor said:
His return numbers on grass were pretty ridiculous in 2003 and 2004 IIRC.

Think Fed's return numbers overall noticeably dropped after 2007 AO. He wasn't one of the best returners career-wise but in the period of 2004 til 2007 AO, he was.
Click to expand...
Fed is one of the best returners on fast surfaces. His instincts are ridiculous.

SABR , no one could do it. Even chip and charge era players didn't face such pace coming from the other side.
 
Third Serve said:
Crazy that Fed has a Slam in the top 5 here when his return isn’t really something he’s known for.

(His first serve return is, however, one of the best out there.)
Click to expand...

At Wimbledon, too. A one-hander is a massive liability in return (will create a thread on it) in the modern baseline game. When you look at the data, relative to field and environment, Fed shouldn’t have won as much as he did but he did.
 
NoleFam said:
Sinner's run at the USO was stronger than Agassi's 2003 AO though. He actually beat some top players. Agassi only beat one player in the top 20.
Click to expand...
That doesn't tell us anything about the level the player's played at. Just because he only played one player in the top 20 is irrelevant.
 
ghostofMecir said:
Nadal was susceptible to the serve out wide on deuce court and in general didn’t have great return instincts, which, of course, matter much less on clay.

Frankly, it’s a testament to Rafito that he did not possess a great serve nor did he possess great return instincts, yet he was such a dominant force in tennis history.

At Wimbledon, the numbers can skew even more due to hiw effective served can be. For example, Hewitt, an ATG great returner who figured out even Pete’s serve and neutralized it, didn’t have to face a single great/big server in 2002. Federer in 2009 played Ivo, Roddick, and Soderling.

Here are the Wimbledon title runs from 1991 to 2024
Title run Wimbledon RPW%
  1. Hewitt, 2002, 45.2% of return points won
  2. Djokovic, 2018, 43.4
  3. Federer, 2012, 43.0
  4. Federer, 2006, 42.5
  5. Murray, 2016, 42.3
  6. Federer, 2004, 41.9
  7. Federer, 2003, 41.9
  8. Murray, 2013, 41.8
  9. Djokovic, 2022, 41.5
  10. Sampras, 1999, 41.4
  11. Djokovic, 2021, 41.3
  12. Djokovic, 2011, 41.1
  13. Djokovic, 2019, 41.0
  14. Alcaraz, 2024, 40.7
  15. Alcaraz, 2024, 40.7
  16. Federer, 2005, 40.2
  17. Federer, 2017, 40.1
  18. Nadal, 2008, 39.5
  19. Agassi, 1992, 39.4
  20. Krajicek, 1996, 39.3
  21. Sampras, 1997, 39.1
  22. Sampras, 1994, 39.0
  23. Federer, 2007, 38.8
  24. Djokovic, 2015, 38.4
  25. Sampras, 1995, 38.2
  26. Djokovic, 2014, 37.9
  27. Sampras, 1993, 37.7
  28. Stich, 1991, 37.4
  29. Sampras, 1998, 37.2
  30. Nadal, 2010, 36.8
  31. Sampras, 2000, 36.6
  32. Federer, 2009, 33.7
  33. Ivanisevic, 2001, 31.1
Click to expand...


4 of the top 7 should put to rest any notion that Federer didn’t have a top-shelf return.
 
Zetty said:
That doesn't tell us anything about the level the player's played at. Just because he only played one player in the top 20 is irrelevant.
Click to expand...
Yea the fact that he won a Slam beating #93, #67, #37, #45, #16, #39 and #36 is totally irrelevant. The level they played at wasn't the point I made anyway.
 
Rovesciarete said:
Sinner seems to expose people which have a hard time reading and understanding basic stuff.

How many stat threads related to Sinner in particular do we have here?

In fact stats have driven the early convection of many that he would win slams…
Click to expand...

1- yes and no , ground game and other main stats ( BH, FH, return ) which he leads hint clearly towards dominance in result for a longer stretch

2- but these stats doesn't tell you how big of a match player you're or your stats won't go down significantly even if you lose a slam match.

3- to haters who were laughing with meme like but but Sinner fans have stats forgot that Sinner lost two slam matches by a very thin margin ( that implies how hard he's to beat and stats which he leads do indeed matter ) and will get translated into slam results ( Sinner delivered on USO)
 
Sinner fans were bombarding the forum with similar statistics before his exploits at the hands of Alcaraz at IW & RG, Tsitsipas at MC, Medvedev at Wimbledon & Rublev at CO. Take the stats with big pinches of salt, fellas; they're heavily inflated due to the fact that Sinner didn't play any elite Server &/or returner at all during this USO run. (Medvedev is an elite one on paper but he was way too erratic that day)
 
NeutralFan said:
1- yes and no , ground game and other main stats ( BH, FH, return ) which he leads hint clearly towards dominance in result for a longer stretch

2- but these stats doesn't tell you how big of a match player you're or your stats won't go down significantly even if you lose a slam match.

3- to haters who were laughing with meme like but but Sinner fans have stats forgot that Sinner lost two slam matches by a very thin margin ( that implies how hard he's to beat and stats which he leads do indeed matter ) and will get translated into slam results ( Sinner delivered on USO)
Click to expand...

Tennis is very iterative, like Jannik himself says in a different way. This means that in the long run results will be determined by performance. However mental aspects and luck also play its part and the smaller the margins are, the greater it is.

A few chaps here have rightly questioned his stamina and athleticism in the last years. especially compared to Carlos. However the logic flip side was that a strong improvement in this area for Mr. late growth spurt would unlock a performance leap.

Now we have proof in front of our eyes.

Luck wasn't also on his side early, suffering arguably most as the young star from the frozen rankings which forced him to face a lot stronger opponents than he should have normally.

All that toughened him up a lot, he has been forged by tennis hardship. He handles now pressure best.
 
OMFG AGAINST DRAPER AND FRITZ. Can we stop this stupidity already? The dude's peak Berdych playing in today's era against complete waiters. Sorry to burst your bubble.
 
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