You just find it difficult to digest the fact that Djokovic does not have this record. is the incredible scenes a Djokovic patent ? What is wrong in pointing out Djokovic did not get it after starting with a record 40+ wins ??
Sinner could join Federer as the only players ever..
- Thread starter ghostofMecir
- Start date
You just find it difficult to digest the fact that Djokovic does not have this record. is the incredible scenes a Djokovic patent ? What is wrong in pointing out Djokovic did not get it after starting with a record 40+ wins ??
Hitman
Bionic Poster
No real Fed Fan IMO should ever feel insecure about his place in history. And if Fed is their GOAT, then good for them.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Agreed, and it is a great year. His assault was limited to hardcourt though so to me, next year will be the time to see if he's ready to extend that level on clay and grass. He hasn't won a big title yet on clay, and only has one small title on clay, which is kind of surprising.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Sinner is better than most players on serve pts won. His serve and +1 combination is very tough. I have to see what players can do to make him uncomfortable. Maybe someone like musetti with chip returns but sinner both fh and bh +1 are great.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
No, I find it difficult to digest that I am seeing the constant crying and complaining from certain posters who thought it was their divine right that their guy should be the GOAT because he turned water into wine and parted the sea.
The point is, have you ever not spoken about Djokovic in a negative light? I see so many of your digs, are you not interested in anything beyond Djokovic taking the slam record from Federer and hoping that someone, anyone takes it from him to ease the pain somewhat? Anyone but Djokovic, right?
Thread is about celebrating Sinner and Federer, a nice thread, but I guess I am asking for too much.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Serve is less important on clay though, which is why it's probably his worst surface.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
This year, he did miss out on Madrid and Rome with injury, and on grass he did win Halle. But he does now need to step up on those surfaces to make it count that he is an all surface champion. He has mastered HCs now though.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Not serve, the plus 1 is big deal. Sinner serve is great but is it really greater than someone like tsitsipas?
What I have seen sinner and what all greats do is hit aces on breakpoints. Djokovic did so from 2011 onwards. Roger most likely did so when he was in his peak as well.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Yea that's true and I forgot he missed Rome. I think he played Madrid and then had to pull out with an injury? Madrid would probably be the conditions he would like best on clay tbh. Winning Halle was good but he got taken down by Medvedev at Wimbledon of all places, lol. Will be time to step it up next year at Wimbledon.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
Hip injury in Madrid, he won the match, however had to pull out.
Rovesciarete
Hall of Fame
Sinner is becoming a master of the modern serve plus game. Alcaraz is great too, starting from a weaker server but following up like few others can…
Four years ago Jannik looked stat-wise more of clay courter and he has great spin from both wings with first-class shot quality.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Their conversion score is almost the same. But raz forces the issue taking huge risks. Sinner doesn't need risks.
I think sinner will be better because he can do what raz can with less risk
Move
Hall of Fame
True, and we all know Tennis is a %% game. That is also why Sinner is more consistent
Winner Sinner
Hall of Fame
Sinner didn't do anything significant on clay in 2024 because in the Monte Carlo semi-final a sensational refereeing oversight denied him the chance to win the tournament, because in Madrid he had to withdraw due to a hip problem when his path was clear in the draw, hip problem which forced him to also give up on Rome and to have a less than ideal approach before Paris.
Djokovic's 2011 remains superior regardless, but;
1) Sinner in 2024 had to face extra problems that Djokovic 2011 did not have.
2) 2011 for Djokovic and 2024 for Sinner were the years of definitive consecration to number 1 status (both coincidentally launched by a triumph in the Davis Cup) but Sinner 2024 is a year younger than Djokovic 2011.
Djokovic's 2011 remains superior regardless, but;
1) Sinner in 2024 had to face extra problems that Djokovic 2011 did not have.
2) 2011 for Djokovic and 2024 for Sinner were the years of definitive consecration to number 1 status (both coincidentally launched by a triumph in the Davis Cup) but Sinner 2024 is a year younger than Djokovic 2011.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
And Federer only did it because there were no elite players back then. So Sinner GOAT.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Stop spreading lies.
Rovesciarete
Hall of Fame
…. you better have good arguments mate for accusing a man. Come on, state your case.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Fed was a god who could heal wounds. Don't you know. Don't look at his losses.
Winner Sinner
Hall of Fame
This 2024 from the point of view of statistical curiosity of thread so far is a step forward even compared to the 2005 Federer.
In fact, Sinner not only like the 2005 Federer has always won at least one set in every match played, but all the defeats both in the BO3 and in those in the BO5 have always occurred in the decisive set, while the 2005 Federer for example lost the Roland Garros semifinal against Nadal in the fourth set.
In fact, Sinner not only like the 2005 Federer has always won at least one set in every match played, but all the defeats both in the BO3 and in those in the BO5 have always occurred in the decisive set, while the 2005 Federer for example lost the Roland Garros semifinal against Nadal in the fourth set.
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Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
Whatever else one could say about competition and all that, I think Sinner’s floor is something that will stand out as particularly impressive even considering the era.
Rosstour
Talk Tennis Guru
Unfortunate that it will be overshadowed by the doping controversy and Djokovic's Golden Slam
Pheasant
Legend
This is a great thread. Thank you for posting it. These are some cool stats. You do a great job of applauding great accomplishments, even when your favorite player isn't on the list of the accomplishment.
And I'm completely fine if Sinner joins this list with Federer. I'd be shocked if he doesn't. He's got 2 matches to go.
Anyway, keep up your great work, amigo. You are a big asset to this site.
Bastion
Semi-Pro
I love all this 'post goat race is over' era we have moved into, even more so in 2025.
Big positive now is that we can be excited about the new rivals like Sinner v Carlos, and also see if someone like Sacha and some others will give them some competition. Also, the question, will some other good young player join the race, or will this be a two horse race next decade or more?
What I am enjoying even more after all the big and most important goat records finally in Novak's pocket, is the creativitity here for all kinds of 'records' coming out to discuss, which is understandable, it is good therapy for many to forget about the goat race that are over. One can also understand that this will happen because the biggest and most important records will only come into discussion again in about 10 or more years, when maybe Sinner or Carlos gets near that goat's numbers, pass it, or not ... or maybe and exciting party coming to spoil the party again!?
Exciting times ahead.
This year's biggest highlights that will remembered in tennis history as big 'changing of the guard' moments:
1. Goat's gold medal at the age of 37, as the cherry on the cake of his goat career.
2. Sinner 2 GS and dominance to get nr. 1 ending this year (maybe also ATP finals title)
3. Carlos 2 GS titles making him the most successful youngster already, having 4 already.
Big positive now is that we can be excited about the new rivals like Sinner v Carlos, and also see if someone like Sacha and some others will give them some competition. Also, the question, will some other good young player join the race, or will this be a two horse race next decade or more?
What I am enjoying even more after all the big and most important goat records finally in Novak's pocket, is the creativitity here for all kinds of 'records' coming out to discuss, which is understandable, it is good therapy for many to forget about the goat race that are over. One can also understand that this will happen because the biggest and most important records will only come into discussion again in about 10 or more years, when maybe Sinner or Carlos gets near that goat's numbers, pass it, or not ... or maybe and exciting party coming to spoil the party again!?
Exciting times ahead.
This year's biggest highlights that will remembered in tennis history as big 'changing of the guard' moments:
1. Goat's gold medal at the age of 37, as the cherry on the cake of his goat career.
2. Sinner 2 GS and dominance to get nr. 1 ending this year (maybe also ATP finals title)
3. Carlos 2 GS titles making him the most successful youngster already, having 4 already.
Winner Sinner
Hall of Fame
Wrong, he has 2 POSSIBLE matches left here at the ATP Finals and 3 more POSSIBLE matches in the Davis Cup.
Total 5 POSSIBLE matches that he could still play by the end of his 2024 season.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Hewitt, Nalby, Ferrero, Safin at AO 2004
Hewitt, Roddick at Wimb 2004
Agassi, Hewitt at USO 2004
Agassi, Safin, Hewitt at AO 2005
Nadal at FO 2005
Ferrero, Gonzo, Hewitt, Roddick at Wimb 2005
Nalby, Hewitt, Agassi at USO 2005
Yeah, no elite competition...
Pheasant
Legend
Ahhhh. I forgot about the Davis Cup. Yes, he has a bit to go yet.
Tallawah Tennis
Professional
Yah man, another of Roger's achievements. Fully expect the younsters to make / break records and this one is superb. It highlights again the quite extraordinary year that Jannik has had.
I agree that winning a set in each match during this period is additionally indicative of the level of the dude's already self evident consistency.
True, to be this good, raw talent is the base to build on. Respect how Jannik and Carlos regularly state that they need to work hard and improve. Jannik's improvement this last year has been phenominal, and he is still young, with scope for more improvement. Wonderful to see the development of confidence too, and that he wants to do better and better.
TheFifthSet
Legend
Haha
zagor
Bionic Poster
Yep, they're just two very different types of talent which is good for such a high profile match-up, it's a nice contrast of playing styles.
Honestly I'm grateful for both of them as a tennis fan. Regardless of whether one thinks they have reached or will ever reach the big 3 level, they're certainly close enough in my book.
Sport
G.O.A.T.
Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
Scenes
ghostofMecir
Legend
To put into perspective how often players lose in straight sets, take a look at the current top 25 and when each one last lost in straight sets:
2024
2024
- Sinner, 81
- Zverev, 12
- Alcaraz, 1
- Fritz, 1
- Medvedev, lost last match played in straight sets
- Ruud, lost last match played in straight sets
- Djokovic, lost last match played in straight sets
- Rublev, 1
- AdM, lost last match played in straight sets
- Dimitrov, lost last match played in straight sets
- Tsitsipas, lost last match played in straight sets
- Paul, lost last match played in straight sets
- Rune, lost last match played in straight sets
- Humbert, lost last match played in straight sets
- Draper, 8
- Hurkacz, lost last match played in straight sets
- Musetti, lost last match played in straight sets
- Tiafoe, 3
- Khachanov, 5
- Fils, 3
- Shelton, 1
- Korda, 2
- Tabilo, 1
- Popyrin, lost last match played in straight sets
- Machac, 6
- Federer, 194 (Guga, RG 2004)
- Nadal, 37 (Blake, Indian Wells)
- Ljubicic, 3 (Lopez, Gstaad)
- Nalbandian, lost last match played in straight sets (Sanguinetti, Cincy)
- Blake, lost last match played in straight sets (Gasquet, Cincy)
- Davydenko, lost last match played in straight sets (X-man, Cincy)
- Robredo, 2 (Mayer, Sopot)
- Stepanek, 9 (Robredo, Hamburg)
- Ancic, lost last match played in straight sets (Federer, Wimby)
- Baghdatis, lost last match played in straight sets (Nadal, Wimby)
- Hewitt, 1 (Clement, Washington)
- Roddick, 7 (Murray, Wimby)
- Gonzalez, 5 (Tursunov, LA)
- Berdych, lost last match played in straight sets (Gasquet, Cincy)
- Nieminen, 13 (Nadal,
- Ferrer, lost last match played in straight sets (Murray, Cincy)
- Haas, 7 (Mahut, Indy)
- Ginepri, 1 (Murray, Washington)
- Kiefer, 2 (Mirnyi, Hamburg)
- Acasuso, 0 (Gonzo, Cincy)
gamelovergold
Professional
The pain of fedal fan is very heavy on them. Fedrer was the one for the throne. If not Fedrer Nadal will do. But nobody knew (there was no way to know) that a joker will come and defeat the king and his sucessor and sit on the throne for a long long time. Sinner has a amazing year and atleast 5 more amazing years are needed before we can talk Sinner as a real threat.
roysid
Legend
If youve retired or defaulted without winning a set, it should be counted as straight set loss.Sinner could join Federer as the only players in the open era who have won a set in every single match they have played during a particular season.
Sinner has won a set in every match he has played since losing last year to Djokovic at the Tour Finals. He’s also won 16 sets in a row
Federer won a set in every match in 2005 And 3/4 of the way through 2006 before losing in straight sets to Andy Murray in Cincinnati.
Borg was not defeated in straight sets in 1979, but he did retire in a match without winning it.
McEnroe went the entire season in 1984 without losing a magistrate set until the Davis cup match at the very end of the season.
I posted this thread about the record of matches played in a row without losing in straight sets.
Record for consecutive matches played without losing in straight sets: Alcaraz hasn’t lost in straight sets in nearly a Year
Alcaraz always finds a way to make it a battle, amd he is incredibly difficult to defeat easily. He’s been a betting favorite in just about every match this season in part becuse of this. He’s currently at 65 straight matches, one of the longest streaks in the ATP ranking era. I went through...tt.tennis-warehouse.com
Roger Federer: 194 matches
2004-2006
Streak ended by Andy Murray in TMS Cincinnati 2006-- last ss loss before that was to Guga at 2004 RG
Bjorn Borg: 160 matches
1979-1980
Streak ended by Gene Mayer in the Masters in 1981 (there was a match in which he was ahead 4-1 and retired so technically wasn’t defeated in straight sets)
John McEnroe: 109 matches
1983-1984 (Henrik Sundstrom in Davis Cup finals)
Nastase: 107 matches
1973 (Okker, London)
Lendl: 103 matches
1988-1989 (Stefan Edberg at the Masters)
Ivan Lendl: 101 matches
1981-1982 (Vilas in Monte Carlo)
Connors: 96* matches
1976-77 (Barrazutti at Richmond WCT)
(One match ended at 6-6 vs. Gottfired in LA with Connors being defaulted
Novak Djokoivc: 79* matches
2011
Murray led 6-4, 3-0 in Cincy when Djoko retired (streak was at 63) and Delpo led 7-6, 3-0 in Davis cup when Djoko retired. Ferrer was the first to complete a straight sets at the Tour Finals
Sinner: 77 matches
2023-2024 (Djokovic, Tour Finals)
Connors: 73 matches
1974-1975 (Tanner, Nottingham)
Connors: 69 matches
1980-1981 (Higueras, North Conway)
Ivan Lendl: 67 matches
1982 (Wilander, Barcelona)
Alcaraz: 66 matches
2021-2022 (Goffin, Astana)
Connors: 66 matches
1974 (Gispert, Toronto)
Agassi: 65 matches
1994-1995 (Pete, IW)
Novak Djokoivc: 62 matches
2013-2014 (Federer, MC)
Federer: 59 matches
2011-2012 (Djokovic, Rome)
Federer: 56 matches
2017-2018 (Djokoivc, Cincinnati)
Federer: 53 matches
2009-2010 (Davydenko, Doha)
Federer: 51 matches
2016-2017 (Zverev, Canada)
Nastase: 51 matches
1972 (Hewitt, Bournemouth)
Federer: 49 matches
2007 (Nalbandian, Paris)
Murray, 49 matches
2016 (Cilic, Cincy)
Federer: 44 matches
2008-2009 (Wawrinka, Monte Carlo)
Hewitt: 44 matches
2001-2002 (Federer, Miami)
Edberg: 43 matches
1991-1992 (Siemerink,Rotterdam)
Nadal: 42 matches
2009 (Federer, Madrid)
Federer: 41 matches
2014 (Tsonga, Canada )
Federer: 41 matches
2006-2007 (Canas, IW)
Agassi: 41 matches
1995-1996 (Chang, AO)
Sampras: 41 matches
1995 (Essen, Muster)
Wilander: 41 matches
1984-1985 (McEnroe, Masters)
Nadal: 41 matches
2006 (JCF, Cincy)
Sinner might have the highest floor since Federer.
Sinner right now might have the HIGHEST FLOOR level since Peak Fed
It is very, very, very difficult to go the entire season without having some match in which things don’t work out, the other player is playing too good, etc., etc. When this happens, you take a beating. Sinner hasn’t taken a real beating all year because his floor level game is so sound and...
Straight, simple and logical. Thats why i dont agree with djokovic 79*. He lost the streak when he retired against murray 6-3 3-0
Otherwise its a trivia thread
Winners or Errors
Legend
I agree with @Hitman here. Why is this thread degenerating into another Djokovic thread? Of interest to me in the Fed-Sinners comparison would be how often in those matches either lost the first set. I feel like, having watched both, Sinner’s three set losses would be from winning the first set and being caught, while Fed’s would be losing the first set and making his opponent earn the win.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Djokovic also lost wimby finals in 2 sets.
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