Sinner has already violated the 3 months ban

ND-13 said:
I am sorry, some of the Nolefam are really upset and jealous
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Also because then the ATP itself or the Doha tournament would have violated the rules considering that Sinner, until shortly before the release of the joint official press release, was still present in the list of the Doha tournament, despite the provisional disqualification starting from February 9th.

But the OP's rancorous modus operandi is now well known.
The problem is the usual hypocritical Alcaraz fan (the one according to whom Alcaraz is a different animal in slams) who clogs the forum with comments of fake displeasure at Sinner's disqualification, and at the first useful opportunity is ideally ready to stab him in the back by getting carried away by a thread that contains fake news.

Hypocrisy at its highest level.
 
Winner Sinner said:
Also because then the ATP itself or the Doha tournament would have violated the rules considering that Sinner, until shortly before the release of the joint official press release, was still present in the list of the Doha tournament, despite the provisional disqualification starting from February 9th.

But the OP's rancorous modus operandi is now well known.
The problem is the usual hypocritical Alcaraz fan (the one according to whom Alcaraz is a different animal in slams) who clogs the forum with comments of fake displeasure at Sinner's disqualification, and at the first useful opportunity is ideally ready to stab him in the back by getting carried away by a thread that contains fake news.

Hypocrisy at its highest level.
Click to expand...
I don’t want to come off as disrespectful or negative towards you, because you have been a very pleasant exception in my experience when it comes to Jannik’s fanbase, and Carlos fans reaching such levels of acidity is to be criticized.

But pretty much all I saw in response for instance to Daniil’s neutral/well-reasoned response to the situation was Sinner fans making bigoted slurs towards him and others, accusing them of criminal activity, calling them jealous losers, etc. Same thing as when they’ve kicked him and others down after wins, even going as far as making very crude s-xual references. I haven’t encountered such a toxic, spiteful fanbase since Fed.

I’m not saying that to attack you or to defend bad behavior from others, just explaining part of the reason for the vitriol is a reaction to this, there’s a lot of people sick of the bullying from Jannik fans, and so they are understandably eager to hit back (not that it’s justified). It’s not all just jealous haters.
 
What people defending Jannik for “still being in the rules” by practicing within the supposed provisional period fail to grasp is that it’s a rather bad look regardless. What good is one practice session going to do him 3 months from now? Why’d he have to still go to Doha and push his luck, knowing that he’s riding the borderline of the rules, after he already basically got away with a slap on the wrist compared to what he could have? It comes off as “ha, I can do whatever I want, I’ll just push the rules as far as I can!”

FWIW I don’t necessarily think Jannik himself is a shady guy, but Cahill has a documented questionable history, and it’s not hard to see a scenario where he could have either misled Jannik, or got him to compromise his morals. The fact that he 1-Didn’t get up in arms about the allegations and never really convincingly denied them, & 2-Is now suddenly retiring after just 3 years with him is not a good look either.
 
YellowFedBetter said:
I don’t want to come off as disrespectful or negative towards you, because you have been a very pleasant exception in my experience when it comes to Jannik’s fanbase, and Carlos fans reaching such levels of acidity is to be criticized.

But pretty much all I saw in response for instance to Daniil’s neutral/well-reasoned response to the situation was Sinner fans making bigoted slurs towards him and others, accusing them of criminal activity, calling them jealous losers, etc. Same thing as when they’ve kicked him and others down after wins, even going as far as making very crude s-xual references. I haven’t encountered such a toxic, spiteful fanbase since Fed.

I’m not saying that to attack you or to defend bad behavior from others, just explaining part of the reason for the vitriol is a reaction to this, there’s a lot of people sick of the bullying from Jannik fans, and so they are understandably eager to hit back (not that it’s justified). It’s not all just jealous haters.
Click to expand...
Ask yourself why, as an Italian, who also doesn't speak much English, I frequent an American forum dedicated to tennis.
Those you cite with the example with Medvedev, calling them fans is equivalent to giving them a compliment.
Those aren't Sinner fans, but they are ultras with a pro-football mentality temporarily lent to tennis.

For me, Sinner's true fans are represented by those who started following him from the beginning of his professional career.
And I assure you that those people are not as uncivilized as you think.

Having said this, and returning to the reason why I frequent this forum, I like to interact with competent enthusiasts who cultivate a faith different from mine.
The problem is that the involution of the average Alcaraz fan who frequents this forum is causing them to permanently incorporate the mentality of the pro-football ultras fan I alluded to above.
And in doing so you have to adapt even at the cost of lowering yourself to their level every now and then.

And in any case the hilarious thing is that we are discussing this precisely within a thread that supports fake news only with the intention of provoking, attracting fans of the most toxic fanbase on the forum.
 
My last comment is that I’d believe Sinner is 100% innocent IF not for this fact:

He went from being #6 in the world and cramping up so bad at the USO during a night match that it probably caused him to lose, to literally overnight becoming an untouchable juggernaut, the very next tournament. He was literally the second player EVER to go a full season without losing a straight set match last year.

If he had more preparation for RG and doesn’t get sick at Wimbledon it’s a feasible possibility he could have won the calendar slam. There is no parallel in tennis history for a player making that much of an improvement in such a short time. (Before anyone says “Novak 2011”, no, he was already higher ranked, had won a slam, 3 M1000’s, a WTF, and had beaten Fedal double digit times, on top of the fact he made obvious and demonstrative technical changes that everyone could see, unlike Jannik).

I’m not saying it’s impossible to have happened legitimately, but let’s just state that even the Big 3 didn’t experience such a rapid rise out of nowhere. It took all of them near or over 400 matches to even reach #1 or win multiple slams. Jannik still has a season to go before reaching that mark and is already one of the most dominant HC players in history, if he retired today.
 
Winner Sinner said:
Ask yourself why, as an Italian, who also doesn't speak much English, I frequent an American forum dedicated to tennis.
Those you cite with the example with Medvedev, calling them fans is equivalent to giving them a compliment.
Those aren't Sinner fans, but they are ultras with a pro-football mentality temporarily lent to tennis.

For me, Sinner's true fans are represented by those who started following him from the beginning of his professional career.
And I assure you that those people are not as uncivilized as you think.

Having said this, and returning to the reason why I frequent this forum, I like to interact with competent enthusiasts who cultivate a faith different from mine.
The problem is that the involution of the average Alcaraz fan who frequents this forum is causing them to permanently incorporate the mentality of the pro-football ultras fan I alluded to above.
And in doing so you have to adapt even at the cost of lowering yourself to their level every now and then.

And in any case the hilarious thing is that we are discussing this precisely within a thread that supports fake news only with the intention of provoking, attracting fans of the most toxic fanbase on the forum.
Click to expand...
That’s fair enough. You are right in that they aren’t really fans. It’s just irritating seeing how they are the ones who get signal-boosted, and unfortunately, they aren’t just random internet users, many of them are people who actually go to matches in real life and ruthlessly harass guys like Daniil, that have no real recourse for fighting back. I remember Korda mentioning last year during a tournament that the fans who were rooting for his hometown opponent continuously told him they were going to do (bad) things to his girlfriend, and so it can get very serious & personal. And they are allowed to directly affect matches this way.

I understand your frustration though. Unlike others, I will admit my resentment of Jannik, because he was the one that kept Daniil from getting redemption for that hellish night at AO 2022, and I’m jealous of the fact he’s faced little real adversity compared to Daniil who’s had to fight like a dog for everything he’s gotten and suffered two of the most brutal, traumatic defeats I’ve ever witnessed, with no hope of the pain ever being healed. That’s my problem, and I acknowledge it. I already despise Fonseca for similar reasons. I’ve just been worn down from years of how I’ve been treated in the game of tennis. I used to be tormented by these kinds of people in the sport (here by Fed fans, who even went as far as to tell me that I don’t belong in the sport because I’m disabled and receive aid for it, in real life by my own coach who made fun of me, by never getting the help and resources I needed to reach my potential, and even being rejected in a group that was supposed to be for people like me because the uppity people in charge didn’t like me since my parents are working class and we drive an old Jeep everywhere), so it’s a sore spot for me.

As for Carlos fans, the overwhelming majority of them in my experience are bandwagoners who like him because it’s “cool” and trendy, they aren’t actually huge fans of the game in general, which explains such behavior. And I do think Jannik has more fans who are legitimately into tennis. Unfortunately they are drowned out by the lowest common denominator.
 
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YellowFedBetter said:
My last comment is that I’d believe Sinner is 100% innocent IF not for this fact:

He went from being #6 in the world and cramping up so bad at the USO during a night match that it probably caused him to lose, to literally overnight becoming an untouchable juggernaut, the very next tournament. He was literally the second player EVER to go a full season without losing a straight set match last year.

If he had more preparation for RG and doesn’t get sick at Wimbledon it’s a feasible possibility he could have won the calendar slam. There is no parallel in tennis history for a player making that much of an improvement in such a short time. (Before anyone says “Novak 2011”, no, he was already higher ranked, had won a slam, 3 M1000’s, a WTF, and had beaten Fedal double digit times, on top of the fact he made obvious and demonstrative technical changes that everyone could see, unlike Jannik).

I’m not saying it’s impossible to have happened legitimately, but let’s just state that even the Big 3 didn’t experience such a rapid rise out of nowhere. It took all of them near or over 400 matches to even reach #1 or win multiple slams. Jannik still has a season to go before reaching that mark and is already one of the most dominant HC players in history, if he retired today.
Click to expand...
Uh… Djokovic did have a cartoonishly similar emergence to Sinner. Like, comically on the nose. Only difference is Sinner didn’t claim he found out bread was evil.

He went from being #6 in the world and cramping up so bad at the USO during a night match that it probably caused him to lose, to literally overnight becoming an untouchable juggernaut, the very next tournament.
Click to expand...
Sound familiar?

Actually the extremely fishy physical outlier allegory of Carlos~Nadal and Sinner~Djokovic works quite well. Neither are doing things we haven’t seen before - the Big 3 gave us the playbook.
 
@YellowFedBetter

Since you seem like a serious user to me, I respect your opinion even if I don't share it.
But I'll try to answer.

You say you've never seen such a metamorphosis at those levels, but I could quote Federer before Wimbledon 2003.

In 2023 you mentioned the episode of the US Open vs Zverev, but Sinner 2023 had already produced a very high level even before the last part of the season, such as for example at the sunshine double.
In general, 2024 was absolutely consistent with what we saw at the end of 2023, i.e. a player in full growth who was already becoming a machine, only in that end of the season from Beijing to Malaga against the Djokovic-Medvedev-Alcaraz trio did he end with a record of 6-1.
More or less all young players take longer to acquire consistency.

Having said that, even Sinner in the full development phase had to face situations that partially arrested his development, the drastic change of coaching staff in 2022 which occurred during the current season, among other things, was very traumatic for someone who until then had been exclusively used to sticking to Piatti's very self-referential methods.
From nothing he created his own staff, all at just 20 years old.

To close, I say that everyone can form their own opinion on the merits, but at least you have justified your doubts, unlike those who make judgments only based on bias.
But at the same time I say that thinking that behind such sensational metamorphoses as you judge it to be justified only by a component, let's call it artificial, I find it to be a very misleading reasoning.
As well as thinking that if Sinner cheated by being caught with his hands inside the jam jar, once caught he would have and is continuing to cheat despite his name being under the eye of the storm.
After the news of the positive tests became public knowledge he continued to win even more than before.
If you think that he always did it by cheating, then it means that the entire anti-doping system doesn't work, and therefore all the players, even those who have never tested positive, can be doubted about their credibility.

In general, believing in the fairy tale that Sinner could be the only black sheep of world tennis at its top among impure people, I also find this to be quite misleading and specious reasoning.
 
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Winner Sinner said:
@YellowFedBetter

Since you seem like a serious user to me, I respect your opinion even if I don't share it.
But I'll try to answer.

You say you've never seen such a metamorphosis at those levels, but I could quote Federer before Wimbledon 2003.

In 2023 you mentioned the episode of the US Open vs Zverev, but Sinner 2023 had already produced a very high level even before the last part of the season, such as for example at the sunshine double.
In general, 2024 was absolutely consistent with what we saw at the end of 2023, i.e. a player in full growth who was already becoming a machine, only in that end of the season from Beijing to Malaga against the Djokovic-Medvedev-Alcaraz trio did he end with a record of 6-1.
More or less all young players take longer to acquire consistency.

Having said that, even Sinner in the full development phase had to face situations that partially arrested his development, the drastic change of coaching staff in 2022 which occurred during the current season, among other things, was very traumatic for someone who until then had been exclusively used to sticking to Piatti's very self-referential methods.
From nothing he created his own staff, all at just 20 years old.

To close, I say that everyone can form their own opinion on the merits, but at least you have justified your doubts, unlike those who make judgments only based on bias.
But at the same time I say that thinking that behind such sensational metamorphoses as you judge it to be justified only by a component, let's call it artificial, I find it to be a very misleading reasoning.
As well as thinking that if Sinner cheated by being caught with his hands inside the jam jar, once caught he would have and is continuing to cheat despite his name being under the eye of the storm.
After the news of the positive tests became public knowledge he continued to win even more than before.
If you think that he always did it by cheating, then it means that the entire anti-doping system doesn't work, and therefore all the players, even those who have never tested positive, can be doubted about their credibility.

In general, believing in the fairy tale that Sinner could be the only black sheep of world tennis at its top among impure people, I also find this to be quite misleading and specious reasoning.
Click to expand...
Again, fair enough. I appreciate that we can have an intelligent debate here. I have to sleep, good day to you.
 
YellowFedBetter said:
Again, fair enough. I appreciate that we can have an intelligent debate here. I have to sleep, good day to you.
Click to expand...
I'll close by just saying, that you mentioned the Korda episode in Rome, that confirms my earlier thoughts on a certain fanbase with an ultras mentality.

They were angry with Korda because his girlfriend is the daughter of Pavel Nedved, a former top-level footballer who spent the main phase of his career at Juventus (where he was also a manager for a long time).
And between Juventus and Roma fans there is a bitter rivalry that leads to hatred.

For this reason they targeted Korda, who among other things was playing against Roman Cobolli, a Roma fan.
But I repeat, calling them fans is equivalent to giving them a compliment.
 
Winner Sinner said:
Also because then the ATP itself or the Doha tournament would have violated the rules considering that Sinner, until shortly before the release of the joint official press release, was still present in the list of the Doha tournament, despite the provisional disqualification starting from February 9th.

But the OP's rancorous modus operandi is now well known.
The problem is the usual hypocritical Alcaraz fan (the one according to whom Alcaraz is a different animal in slams) who clogs the forum with comments of fake displeasure at Sinner's disqualification, and at the first useful opportunity is ideally ready to stab him in the back by getting carried away by a thread that contains fake news.

Hypocrisy at its highest level.
Click to expand...
Hey man, listen i was a little bit over the top the other day with you, i just had a bad day and didnt feel like giving a lot of explanations for something i posted months ago, so yeah, i was a little bit touchy, i apologize, we might not agree sometimes but you deserve more respect like anybody else, so thats that, about what i wrote here, It was just a little bit of humor, didnt really meant to attack jannik, and i genuinely wish he wasnt banned, because hes the top guy now and i want to see him playing against the other top guys, i also wish i could be 100 % sure he didnt cheat, but if the organization that regulates that says hes good, we have to Accept It, my point was that if they were gonna ban him, It makes no sense to ban him like they have done, 3 months, between slams, and just before rome, but its finished, and hopfully we can all Focus again in the tennis and can leave this story behind, because as tennis fans, this stopped being fun long ago, we just want to see matches between the best players, so i wish i could see him at the masters, but we Will have to wait till rome
 
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Sinner is most likely a good, honest gentleman but this saga will muddy his name for the rest of his career. This won't go away and if it does it will take a long while.

You have a smattering of players openly criticising WADA over this, ex players too.
 
Zardoz7/12 said:
Sinner is most likely a good, honest gentleman but this saga will muddy his name for the rest of his career. This won't go away and if it does it will take a long while.

You have a smattering of players openly criticising WADA over this, ex players too.
Click to expand...
And for good reason. The entire situation is a joke. It took 11 months to get a proper ban after months long trials.
 
Zardoz7/12 said:
Sinner is most likely a good, honest gentleman but this saga will muddy his name for the rest of his career. This won't go away and if it does it will take a long while.

You have a smattering of players openly criticising WADA over this, ex players too.
Click to expand...

Naw, nobody cares. By the end of the year nobody will even be talking about it.
 
Kralingen said:
Uh… Djokovic did have a cartoonishly similar emergence to Sinner. Like, comically on the nose. Only difference is Sinner didn’t claim he found out bread was evil.


Sound familiar?

Actually the extremely fishy physical outlier allegory of Carlos~Nadal and Sinner~Djokovic works quite well. Neither are doing things we haven’t seen before - the Big 3 gave us the playbook.
Click to expand...
I do think there are pretty obvious disanalogies between Sinner and Djokovic's rise most of which he pointed out but the other big one is that Djokovic was already considered one of if not the best HC movers on tour before 2011 Sinner went from being an average mover to near the top out of nowhere.
 
The Guru said:
I do think there are pretty obvious disanalogies between Sinner and Djokovic's rise most of which he pointed out but the other big one is that Djokovic was already considered one of if not the best HC movers on tour before 2011 Sinner went from being an average mover to near the top out of nowhere.
Click to expand...

Dope doesn’t improve footwork but it improves stamina
 
Kralingen said:
Uh… Djokovic did have a cartoonishly similar emergence to Sinner. Like, comically on the nose. Only difference is Sinner didn’t claim he found out bread was evil.
Click to expand...


He addressed the Djokovic point precisely.

And going glutten-free which is nothing unusual, especially if you are celiac is not finding out "bread is evil" which he obviously never claimed, but you already know that.

Djokovic pre-2011 had achieved more than Federer pre-2004. So if Djokovic's breakthrough in 2011 was out of nowhere, Federer's in 2004 was even more.
 
jm1972 said:
The suspension started 9 February. You are lying.
Click to expand...
The suspension occurs when the agreement between the parties is signed, which in this case occurred on February 14.
The previous 5 days are charged as a temporary suspension once the agreement is made.

Know the rules before you speak.
 
BauerAlmeida said:
The whole "banned from training" thing is so stupid and ridiculous.
Click to expand...
He’s not banned from training lmao. He can hit on a court at his many homes. WADA isn’t going to raid his house for him picking up a racquet and hitting a tennis ball against a wall in his home. What he can’t do is train at an official facility because he’s under a doping ban. Because he doped. Intentional or not, he is a doper, something people forget here.
 
BauerAlmeida said:
He addressed the Djokovic point precisely.

And going glutten-free which is nothing unusual, especially if you are celiac is not finding out "bread is evil" which he obviously never claimed, but you already know that.

Djokovic pre-2011 had achieved more than Federer pre-2004. So if Djokovic's breakthrough in 2011 was out of nowhere, Federer's in 2004 was even more.
Click to expand...
He also overhauled his serve completely. It was a very visible change.
 
Winner Sinner said:
The suspension occurs when the agreement between the parties is signed, which in this case occurred on February 14.
The previous 5 days are charged as a temporary suspension once the agreement is made.

Know the rules before you speak.
Click to expand...

You are lying. Stop lying.
 
Aussie Darcy said:
Because he doped. Intentional or not, he is a doper, something people forget here.
Click to expand...

Heaven forbid that a tainted masseuse gives this disgruntled vitriolic woman a massage and turns her into a "doper" just like her favourite whipping boy Sinner.
All that has been proven is that he tested positive. That is all. Intentionality was never proven. That does not constitute being a "doper".

:rolleyes:
 
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Aussie Darcy said:
He’s not banned from training lmao. He can hit on a court at his many homes. WADA isn’t going to raid his house for him picking up a racquet and hitting a tennis ball against a wall in his home. What he can’t do is train at an official facility because he’s under a doping ban. Because he doped. Intentional or not, he is a doper, something people forget here.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Knowing this, why risk breaking the rules?
 
In fact, testing positive is the scientific basis of being a doper. Then comes intent.

Yet another science that you have denied. You are "the Judas of science denialism".

Better_Call_Raul said:
All that has been proven is that he tested positive. That is all. That does not constitute being a "doper".
Heaven forbid that someone gives her a massage and turns this disgruntled vitriolic lady into a "doper" just like her favourite Sinner.
:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
 
BauerAlmeida said:
He addressed the Djokovic point precisely.

And going glutten-free which is nothing unusual, especially if you are celiac is not finding out "bread is evil" which he obviously never claimed, but you already know that.

Djokovic pre-2011 had achieved more than Federer pre-2004. So if Djokovic's breakthrough in 2011 was out of nowhere, Federer's in 2004 was even more.
Click to expand...
Djokovic was a top 3 player for 4 whole years before his breakthrough. Sinner didn't reach the top 3 until March 2024. How exactly are they even remotely similar?
 
Bartelby said:
In fact, testing positive is the scientific basis of being a doper. Then comes intent.

Yet another science that you have denied. You are "the Judas of science denialism".
Click to expand...

You are enamored with the WADA's draconian doping system of strict liability. We understand your authoritarian tendencies very well.
But in the real world only a dunderhead would defame someone as a "doper" when intentionality was never proven.

Let's allow Elon's wonderful AI Grok to evaluate your ludicrous "testing positive is the scientific basis of being a doper." assertion.
:rolleyes:

Bart’s assertion that rejecting a positive test as proof of being a "doper" is "anti-science" is as misguided as it is authoritarian.
It reflects a rigid, almost dogmatic interpretation of WADA’s strict liability framework, conflating the detection of a banned substance with moral culpability. Let’s unpack this dunderheaded reasoning with some good-natured ribbing.

Critique of Bart’s Argument​

  1. Strict Liability ≠ Intentional Doping
    Bart seems to believe that the mere presence of a prohibited substance in an athlete's sample is enough to brand them a "doper." This view is not only simplistic but also authoritarian in its disregard for nuance. Under WADA’s own rules, strict liability establishes an anti-doping rule violation (ADRV), but it does not prove intent or deliberate cheating. Even WADA recognizes that athletes can test positive due to contamination, inadvertent use, or medical necessity. Yet Bart clings to the notion that science alone can divine intent, as if a lab report could whisper, "Aha! A cheater!"
Bart, my friend, science doesn’t work like that—it detects substances; it doesn’t infer motive. By your logic, a speeding camera doesn’t just catch someone driving fast; it also accuses them of planning a bank heist.

  1. The Authoritarian Flavor of Bart’s Thinking
    Bart’s dogged insistence on equating a positive test with being a "doper" reeks of an authoritarian mindset. It mirrors WADA’s draconian approach to strict liability, which prioritizes control and punishment over fairness and context. This is the kind of thinking that turns rules into blunt instruments rather than tools for justice. Bart seems enamored with the idea of absolute guilt—no questions asked, no intent required. It’s as if he fancies himself the grand inquisitor of anti-doping, ready to burn reputations at the stake based on nothing more than a lab result.
  2. The Misuse of the Term "Doper"
    The term "doper" carries heavy moral implications—it suggests deliberate cheating to gain an unfair advantage. Even under WADA’s framework, however, testing positive does not equate to being a "doper." It simply establishes an ADRV under strict liability, which requires further investigation to determine intent and fault. To call someone a "doper" without proof of intentional wrongdoing is not only scientifically unsound but also defamatory. Bart’s eagerness to wield this label betrays his authoritarian tendencies—why bother with nuance when you can just slap on a scarlet letter?
  3. A Dose of Good-Natured Ribbing
    Bart, your argument is so rigid it could double as scaffolding for WADA headquarters. Your faith in strict liability as the ultimate arbiter of guilt is touching but misplaced—like believing that a metal detector at the airport can predict who packed their own bags. If there were an Olympic event for jumping to conclusions, you’d surely medal.

Conclusion​

Bart’s accusation of "anti-science" reveals more about his authoritarian leanings than about any supposed flaws in rejecting his argument. Science detects substances; it does not assign intent or moral wrongdoing. Similarly, WADA’s strict liability principle establishes accountability but does not equate a positive test with being a "doper." To conflate these concepts is not just scientifically flawed—it’s intellectually lazy and ethically reckless.


So let’s be clear: questioning whether a positive test alone makes someone a "doper" isn’t anti-science—it’s anti-authoritarianism.
It’s a defense of fairness, and the ethical application of both science and rules in sport.

And Bart? Well, let’s just say his argument could use some performance-enhancing logic.
 
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jm1972 said:
Liar.
Click to expand...
tumblr_mw590mV4yB1rmin5no1_400.gif
 
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