Sinner is playing in another world right now

I was always a doubter, but he keeps on improving every aspect of his game and there’s nowhere for the opposition to go. Grigor Dimitrov was playing really really well in the first four games, got to breakpoint, sinner saved it again as he has all year long, and then only gave up two more games after that.

Compare Sinner to Djoko in the beginning of 2011. Obviously Djokovic’s competition was much better but the point by point dominance by Sinner on both return and serve is already at an ATG level. Or compare to Fedr in 2005. And to make it even crazier, compare to Rafito on clay.

2011 Djokovic through the Sunshine Double
24-0, 57.5% of total points won, 1.49 dominance ratio

2015 Djokovic through the Sunshine Double
25-2, 56.1% of total points won, 1.45 dominance ratio

2005 Federer through the Sunshine Double
32-1, 56.1% of total points won, 1.41 dominance ratio

2006 Rafito Monte Carlo through RG
24-0, 55.6% of total points won, 1.35 domiance ratio

2007 Rafito Monte Carlo through RG
26-1, 57.5% of total points won, 1.48 dominance ratio

2008 Rafito Monte Carlo through RG
22-1, 57.5% of total points won, 1.47 dominance ratio

2010 Rafito Monte Carlo through RG
22-0, 57.1% of total points won, 1.49 dominance ratio

2017 Rafito Monte Carlo through RG
24-1, 58.3% of total points won, 1.59 dominance ratio

2024 Sinner through the Sunshine Double (after today)
22-1, 56% of total points won, 1.46 dominance ratio

Sinner also just played one of the most dominant Master Series event outside of Rafito clay destructions and FEDR Cincy beatdowns. He was broken only three times all tournament. It is very, very difficult to win SF + F with both at a 1.8+ DR.

1.53 dominance ratio vs. Vavassori
2.27 vs. Griekspoor
1.74 vs. O’Connell
1.69 vs. Machac
1.88 vs. Meddy
1.89 vs. Dimitrov
 
It’s gonna be a 2 man seasons most likely The question mark is gonna be on alcaraz since he’s showing much more inconsistency now as a player. One week he’s winning IW and the next he’s losing to career losers like dimitrov while sinner is just sleep walking through him. . If Carlos doesn’t step up I have no doubt sinners 2024 will be mentioned in the same breathe with feds 06’season, Mac’s 84 Djokers 2015 etc

So it could be a great season for sinner-Carlos rivalry or it could be sinner vulturing everything. Sinners level is showing more consistency
 

Jonas78

Legend
It’s gonna be a 2 man seasons most likely The question mark is gonna be on alcaraz since he’s showing much more inconsistency now as a player. One week he’s winning IW and the next he’s losing to career losers like dimitrov while sinner is just sleep walking through him. . If Carlos doesn’t step up I have no doubt sinners 2024 will be mentioned in the same breathe with feds 06’season, Mac’s 84 Djokers 2015 etc

So it could be a great season for sinner-Carlos rivalry or it could be sinner vulturing everything. Sinners level is showing more consistency
Easy to forget Carlo is still only 20, so i guess a little inconsistency is to be expected.
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
It’s gonna be a 2 man seasons most likely The question mark is gonna be on alcaraz since he’s showing much more inconsistency now as a player. One week he’s winning IW and the next he’s losing to career losers like dimitrov while sinner is just sleep walking through him. . If Carlos doesn’t step up I have no doubt sinners 2024 will be mentioned in the same breathe with feds 06’season, Mac’s 84 Djokers 2015 etc

So it could be a great season for sinner-Carlos rivalry or it could be sinner vulturing everything. Sinners level is showing more consistency

It's going to get crazy in the coming months. Sinner could start reaching incredible levels, and Alcaraz might be right there with him.

Only Djokovic might play spoiler and take a slam, likely Wimbledon.
 

AgassiSuperSlam11

Hall of Fame
Indeed, Sinner is already at the beginning of his prime, while Alcaraz still has more than a year left to reach that point in his career.
:D
Sinner seems to have stepped up his level after getting teased by TTW poster DSH about having "chicken legs." Those Chicken legs are generating some serious power now.
 
It's going to get crazy in the coming months. Sinner could start reaching incredible levels, and Alcaraz might be right there with him.

Only Djokovic might play spoiler and take a slam, likely Wimbledon.
Djokovic? On what basis. On current form Dimitrov is a much bigger threat at W.
Alcaraz has a far higher ceiling than Sinner as much as i really like Sinner and how humble he is. Alcaraz will 2 slams and the Olympics this season.
 
You ready to count Djokovic out at Wimbledon? OK.
Yes. He is 36 going on 37 and way past his prime by your own admission in another post, Sinner and Alcaraz are far better players now than 12 months ago and rapidly improving, and if Dimitrov maintains his current form when he is only early 30's, Djokovic against any of those 3 would get absolutely spanked much like Federer did against Hurcacz.
It is over for both Djokovic and Nadal. They just do not have the legs now to compete against players with no major weaknesses. They could get away with it vs Zverev, Medvedev and Tsitsipas.
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
Yes. He is 36 going on 37 and way past his prime by your own admission in another post, Sinner and Alcaraz are far better players now than 12 months ago and rapidly improving, and if Dimitrov maintains his current form when he is only early 30's, Djokovic against any of those 3 would get absolutely spanked much like Federer did against Hurcacz.
It is over for both Djokovic and Nadal. They just do not have the legs now to compete against players with no major weaknesses. They could get away with it vs Zverev, Medvedev and Tsitsipas.

Djokovic being way past him prime was also true just 12 months ago, when he won three slams, so your initial statement is neither here or there.

Regarding Sinner and Alcaraz, I am not disputing their growth, in fact, I just said I think they like pick up three of the four slams this season, with AO already in the bag. But am I ready to say they are a complete lock for all four? No, not yet, they are still not at full power yet. Djokovic isn't injured or coming back from an injury the way Federer did against Hurkacz, totally different situation.

I think Djokovic is still a contender and still capable for stealing a single slam from Sinner and Alcaraz.
 
Djokovic being way past him prime was also true just 12 months ago, when he won three slams, so your initial statement is neither here or there.

Regarding Sinner and Alcaraz, I am not disputing their growth, in fact, I just said I think they like pick up three of the four slams this season, with AO already in the bag. But am I ready to say they are a complete lock for all four? No, not yet, they are still not at full power yet. Djokovic isn't injured or coming back from an injury the way Federer did against Hurkacz, totally different situation.

I think Djokovic is still a contender and still capable for stealing a single slam from Sinner and Alcaraz.
I think you are hoping rather than believing. We are about to hit April and Novak has been a non factor. At 36/37 he is not going to now just flick a switch. It looks like Sinner broke him at the Davis Cup.
Last season Alcaraz was still a teenager, Sinner nowhere near the player he is now, Nadal effectively retired, Federer was retired, Murray not even a shadow of what he was, Wawrinka injured, Del Potro retired, so that left Medvedev Tsitsipas Zverev and Ruud as the principle rivals with experience of the tour around. As many have said context is important. Alcaraz and Sinner are totally exposing the Medvedev Tsitsipas Zverev generation, it is actually embarrassing to now witness for them
 
Djokovic? On what basis. On current form Dimitrov is a much bigger threat at W.
Alcaraz has a far higher ceiling than Sinner as much as i really like Sinner and how humble he is. Alcaraz will 2 slams and the Olympics this season.
We saw a bit of that at IW when Carlitos started playing at an unbelievable level.

Also, no matter how good Grigor looks to be playing (and he’s playing top 5 type tennis), Novak is Novak and nobody would bet on Grigor over Novak at Wimbledon.
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
I think you are hoping rather than believing. We are about to hit April and Novak has been a non factor. At 36/37 he is not going to now just flick a switch. It looks like Sinner broke him at the Davis Cup.
Last season Alcaraz was still a teenager, Sinner nowhere near the player he is now, Nadal effectively retired, Federer was retired, Murray not even a shadow of what he was, Wawrinka injured, Del Potro retired, so that left Medvedev Tsitsipas Zverev and Ruud as the principle rivals with experience of the tour around. As many have said context is important. Alcaraz and Sinner are totally exposing the Medvedev Tsitsipas Zverev generation, it is actually embarrassing to now witness for them

I am not hoping, I am simply not counting out a guy who was one match away from winning all four slams last year. Djokovic loses one match at AO, and all of a sudden it is all over? The guy got further than Alcaraz did. As far as IW goes, Djokovic has done nothing there since 2016, and it had no impact on how he performed in slams.

Yes, I understand Djokovic is getting older....notice how I am not saying Djokovic is going to be racking up slams, I am actually saying Sinner and Alcaraz will take the lion share, which is expected, but what I am not going say is that they are lock for it all, that is a little too soon for me to say, and to just say Djokovic is now completely done winning slams. I think Djokovic has the ability to steal a slam this year, and I think Wimbledon is the one. There is nothing hoping about it, I legit think he is still one of the top contenders for it
 
I am not hoping, I am simply not counting out a guy who was one match away from winning all four slams last year. Djokovic loses one match at AO, and all of a sudden it is all over? The guy got further than Alcaraz did. As far as IW goes, Djokovic has done nothing there since 2016, and it had no impact on how he performed in slams.

Yes, I understand Djokovic is getting older....notice how I am not saying Djokovic is going to be racking up slams, I am actually saying Sinner and Alcaraz will take the lion share, which is expected, but what I am not going say is that they are lock for it all, that is a little too soon for me to say, and to just say Djokovic is now completely done winning slams. I think Djokovic has the ability to steal a slam this year, and I think Wimbledon is the one. There is nothing hoping about it, I legit think he is still one of the top contenders for it
The evidence doesnt support wat you are saying though. He got crushed by Sinner at his best slam. He then loses to a nobody at IW when presumably he was laser focussed after being banned for so long. he then pulls out of Miami and says he is not sure about playing W to focus on Olympics, and then sacks his coach.
I know he is a legend and one of the greatest sportspeople of all time, that is not in dispute. But the evidence suggests we have an ATG past it now who looks mentally spent, which is just as big a deal as a physically spent player (Nadal). These guys are only human.
I hope i am wrong, i really do, but seeing Alcaraz and Sinner now and how they move and hit the ball i just feel they will utterly routine Djokovic and Nadal over best of 5 sets anywhere.
The Big 3 events this season so far have been won by Sinner and Alcaraz. I personally think they will pretty much win everything now.
 

Mediterranean Might

Professional
I’ve been very impressed with how Sinner improved his level and mental fortitude since the indoor season last year. Crazy trajectory

Im still going to be cautious going into clay season. He’s more comfortable on hardcourts so we’ll see how he transitions. I’m expecting Alcaraz to have the better time on clay this year
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
Djokovic? On what basis. On current form Dimitrov is a much bigger threat at W.
Alcaraz has a far higher ceiling than Sinner as much as i really like Sinner and how humble he is. Alcaraz will 2 slams and the Olympics this season.
Based on current form Dimitrov is bigger threat than Nadal at rg as well.

Nadal has done absolutely nothing.

Always be ready
 
It's going to get crazy in the coming months. Sinner could start reaching incredible levels, and Alcaraz might be right there with him.

Only Djokovic might play spoiler and take a slam, likely Wimbledon.

It may take djokovic. This is becoming very reminiscent of feds 04 beginning domination . He’s not just beating people but throughly dominating them. Where they aren’t even in the match at all .
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
The evidence doesnt support wat you are saying though. He got crushed by Sinner at his best slam. He then loses to a nobody at IW when presumably he was laser focussed after being banned for so long. he then pulls out of Miami and says he is not sure about playing W to focus on Olympics, and then sacks his coach.
I know he is a legend and one of the greatest sportspeople of all time, that is not in dispute. But the evidence suggests we have an ATG past it now who looks mentally spent, which is just as big a deal as a physically spent player (Nadal). These guys are only human.
I hope i am wrong, i really do, but seeing Alcaraz and Sinner now and how they move and hit the ball i just feel they will utterly routine Djokovic and Nadal over best of 5 sets anywhere.
The Big 3 events this season so far have been won by Sinner and Alcaraz. I personally think they will pretty much win everything now.

I know how it has been for him, that doesn't mean just because of two tournaments, he is done. After AO last year, the guy did nothing and then won RG....after W everyone was saying he is done....comes back and wins Cincinnati, USO, Paris and YEC. Lets not go too crazy with the knee jerk reactions.

If after USO he has failed to do anything, THEN the evidence is there. I said to you before, IW after 2016 has been a non factor in his career, yet he won 13 slams after he won his last IW title. The only big loss was the one to Sinner at AO, and considering he won AO the last four times he played it, and won three of the last four slams he played, the guy was due a loss....and again, he was in the semis. If he is losing first week in slams, come and let me know.

I agree about his mentally spent issue, I think 2023 burnt him out as he got all the records, and AO was simply too soon for him. Events like IW and Miami don't do anything for him anymore, he has said his goal is slam focused.

I think his time at number one is up, once he loses it to Sinner, that is it for him, I called that a while ago, but I don't think the greatest grand slam champion of all time is done completely winning slams. His days of dominating are over, yes, but he can still steal a slam. Not wise to write him off completely, more like wishful thinking IMO.
 
A

ALCARAZWON

Guest
And peak Sinner still can't beat Alcaraz.
The gap will be greater on clay.
2023_11_10_Nike_Sinner_Alcaraz_Torino_0010.jpg
 
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I know how it has been for him, that doesn't mean just because of two tournaments, he is done. After AO last year, the guy did nothing and then won RG....after W everyone was saying he is done....comes back and wins Cincinnati, USO, Paris and YEC. Lets not go too crazy with the knee jerk reactions.

If after USO he has failed to do anything, THEN the evidence is there. I said to you before, IW after 2016 has been a non factor in his career, yet he won 13 slams after he won his last IW title. The only big loss was the one to Sinner at AO, and considering he won AO the last four times he played it, and won three of the last four slams he played, the guy was due a loss....and again, he was in the semis. If he is losing first week in slams, come and let me know.

I agree about his mentally spent issue, I think 2023 burnt him out as he got all the records, and AO was simply too soon for him. Events like IW and Miami don't do anything for him anymore, he has said his goal is slam focused.

I think his time at number one is up, once he loses it to Sinner, that is it for him, I called that a while ago, but I don't think the greatest grand slam champion of all time is done completely winning slams. His days of dominating are over, yes, but he can still steal a slam. Not wise to write him off completely, more like wishful thinking IMO.
Winning a slam and then doing nothing is a whole different ball game to getting shellacked at your best slam then doing nothing.
If IW doesnt matter to him, then why enter it after so long not playing there? Doesnt make any sense.
I have no idea how Novak feels, i am not him obviously. I can only summise how he may feel on the basis of how i would feel if i were him. From my perspective, to have lost my last 3 slam matches to fellow ATGS (Sinner and Alcaraz are going to be ATGs without question), one of whom was my career rival ,and the other 2 not yet at their peak would frustrate me immensely especially as each loss was on each of the 3 surfaces. From a mental side of things at the tail end of a career such frustration can really be debilitating as there isnt much time to put things right. Thats where i think mentally Novak has a problem now. Facing Sinner and Alcaraz at the slams will be very tough for him, and i just dont think he can beat them. Not at his age.
I think he might be better concentrating on m1000s and at least ensuring he can keep a winning h2h as over 3 sets i think he has a much better chance against them.
 

Sport

G.O.A.T.
Yes. He is 36 going on 37 and way past his prime by your own admission in another post, Sinner and Alcaraz are far better players now than 12 months ago and rapidly improving, and if Dimitrov maintains his current form when he is only early 30's, Djokovic against any of those 3 would get absolutely spanked much like Federer did against Hurcacz.
It is over for both Djokovic and Nadal. They just do not have the legs now to compete against players with no major weaknesses. They could get away with it vs Zverev, Medvedev and Tsitsipas.
Dimitrov will never beat Djokovic in a Slam. The age difference is not big enough for a USO 2019 repeat (Dimitrov surprisingly beating Federer). Some Federer fans are obsessed with creating analogies between Federer's last season and Djokovic's and Nadal's last steps. But fact is, those are different situations.
 
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Hitman

Bionic Poster
Winning a slam and then doing nothing is a whole different ball game to getting shellacked at your best slam then doing nothing.
If IW doesnt matter to him, then why enter it after so long not playing there? Doesnt make any sense.
I have no idea how Novak feels, i am not him obviously. I can only summise how he may feel on the basis of how i would feel if i were him. From my perspective, to have lost my last 3 slam matches to fellow ATGS (Sinner and Alcaraz are going to be ATGs without question), one of whom was my career rival ,and the other 2 not yet at their peak would frustrate me immensely especially as each loss was on each of the 3 surfaces. From a mental side of things at the tail end of a career such frustration can really be debilitating as there isnt much time to put things right. Thats where i think mentally Novak has a problem now. Facing Sinner and Alcaraz at the slams will be very tough for him, and i just dont think he can beat them. Not at his age.
I think he might be better concentrating on m1000s and at least ensuring he can keep a winning h2h as over 3 sets i think he has a much better chance against them.

I will have to disagree with your first statement yet again. Djokovic's eulogy was put together in 2022 post RG, he bounced back and won W and YEC. Then it was written again post AO, he bounced back and won RG....and at W, he owned Centre Court even more than RLA the last decade, by not losing a single match on that court....they said his time was up, and we saw how he respond. This whole shellacking by Sinner at AO....we know Djokovic didn't play his best, and there were factors in play.

But he was due a loss....and I don't need to keep repeating myself that these spring masters have done nothing and not really meant anything to him for years now, they are no indication of anything going forward. If he goes slamless, we can revisit this, and I will agree with your assessment that it is fully over for him. One AO loss after winning four of them isn't enough evidence for me.

And I do think Sinner and Alcaraz will win big and continue to do so, but not going to give them the lock until they show me this year they can shut Djokovic out completely all season long. Not much more to add to this.
 
I will have to disagree with your first statement yet again. Djokovic's eulogy was put together in 2022 post RG, he bounced back and won W and YEC. Then it was written again post AO, he bounced back and won RG....and at W, he owned Centre Court even more than RLA the last decade, by not losing a single match on that court....they said his time was up, and we saw how he respond. This whole shellacking by Sinner at AO....we know Djokovic didn't play his best, and there were factors in play.

But he was due a loss....and I don't need to keep repeating myself that these spring masters have done nothing and not really meant anything to him for years now, they are no indication of anything going forward. If he goes slamless, we can revisit this, and I will agree with your assessment that it is fully over for him. One AO loss after winning four of them isn't enough evidence for me.

And I do think Sinner and Alcaraz will win big and continue to do so, but not going to give them the lock until they show me this year they can shut Djokovic out completely all season long. Not much more to add to this.
5 years ago id agree with you. I just cannot see how Djokovic at his age can stop Sinner and Alcaraz at a slam given by the time they play it will be tail end of the event after almost 2 weeks.
I know Nadal did it v Medvedev at the AO. But that was Medvedev. Sinner and Alcaraz are about 3 levels above Medvedev.
 

Hitman

Bionic Poster
5 years ago id agree with you. I just cannot see how Djokovic at his age can stop Sinner and Alcaraz at a slam given by the time they play it will be tail end of the event after almost 2 weeks.
I know Nadal did it v Medvedev at the AO. But that was Medvedev. Sinner and Alcaraz are about 3 levels above Medvedev.

Lets leave this discussion here and see how this year unfolds, and pick up after the season ends to see what happened.
 

SonnyT

Legend
Sinner has not had a single scintillating, tension-full match so far this season. That's not his fault. But you can only judge a player on such a match, such as '23 WB final.
 

TheSlicer

Hall of Fame
Yes. He is 36 going on 37 and way past his prime by your own admission in another post, Sinner and Alcaraz are far better players now than 12 months ago and rapidly improving, and if Dimitrov maintains his current form when he is only early 30's, Djokovic against any of those 3 would get absolutely spanked much like Federer did against Hurcacz.
It is over for both Djokovic and Nadal. They just do not have the legs now to compete against players with no major weaknesses. They could get away with it vs Zverev, Medvedev and Tsitsipas.
lol you expect dimitrov to be sharing slams with them now because he had a run at a masters?
 

CHillTennis

Hall of Fame
I think you are hoping rather than believing. We are about to hit April and Novak has been a non factor. At 36/37 he is not going to now just flick a switch. It looks like Sinner broke him at the Davis Cup.
Last season Alcaraz was still a teenager, Sinner nowhere near the player he is now, Nadal effectively retired, Federer was retired, Murray not even a shadow of what he was, Wawrinka injured, Del Potro retired, so that left Medvedev Tsitsipas Zverev and Ruud as the principle rivals with experience of the tour around. As many have said context is important. Alcaraz and Sinner are totally exposing the Medvedev Tsitsipas Zverev generation, it is actually embarrassing to now witness for them
Sinner didn't break Djokovic. That's total nonsense. :rolleyes:

Like you said earlier in your post, he's nearly 37 years old and I'm not totally convinced that his wrist isn't causing him some problems.

Andre Agassi went through something similar to this back in 1993. He injured his wrist at the beginning of that season and his results (apart from Wimbledon) were terrible that season.

The difference of course is that Andre was only 23 at the time and Djokovic is nearing the end of his career.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
Dimitrov will never beat Djokovic in a Slam. The age difference is not big enough for a USO 2019 repeat (Dimitrov surprisingly beating Federer). Some Federer fans are obsessed with creating analogies between Federer's last season and Djokovic's and Nadal's last steps. But fact is, those are different situations.
True.

But it's not only about fedfans. Every armchair expert wants to have exact match between player A and player B. Players you liked and players you hated.

Truth is somewhere in between.

Eg. When I say every young player bases himself on Djokovic now, that's the truth. We can't say sinner is Djokovic so what sinner failures will be can be attributed to Djokovic's perceived errors.

Federer was 41 when he quit but his body quit on him at age 38. While nadal's body started quitting at age 36.
 

Rovesciarete

Hall of Fame
Monaco will be slow and is wet right now. Jannik‘s gains as Carlos gets rushed.

Overall he is a more patient player who can shift more easily towards heavier spin and sharper angles, which is key on clay. So something gives and something takes.
 

NeutralFan

G.O.A.T.
Monaco will be slow and is wet right now. Jannik‘s gains as Carlos gets rushed.

Overall he is a more patient player who can shift more easily towards heavier spin and sharper angles, which is key on clay. So something gives and something takes.

Do you have stats of Sinner's FH and BH's topspin? I read somewhere last two years back that he was amoung the player with highest topspin.
 

Rovesciarete

Hall of Fame
GFfw2_eXUAAiiNX


Thanks to @vestige du jour. Not the greatest of sample sizes, but Sinner can shift towards more spin now if he wants. His backhand is arguably the best clay weapon among the top players, combining heavy spin, pace and angles. Maybe some one-handers are up there as well but they lack his defence.

Zverev is obviously missing in the graph, his backhand can be amazing on the dirt as well. Novak‘s can be clearly as well…
 
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NeutralFan

G.O.A.T.
GFfw2_eXUAAiiNX


Thanks to @vestige du jour. Not the greatest of a sample size, but Sinner can shift towards more spin now if he wants. His backhand is arguably the best clay weapon among the top players, combining heavy spin, pace and angles. Maybe some one-handers are up there as well but they lack his defence.

Zverev is obviously missing in the graph.

That's why I never ruled out RG for him.
 
Sinner didn't break Djokovic. That's total nonsense. :rolleyes:

Like you said earlier in your post, he's nearly 37 years old and I'm not totally convinced that his wrist isn't causing him some problems.

Andre Agassi went through something similar to this back in 1993. He injured his wrist at the beginning of that season and his results (apart from Wimbledon) were terrible that season.

The difference of course is that Andre was only 23 at the time and Djokovic is nearing the end of his career.
Hadnt thought about the wrist as he is still hitting very hard. I just feel Novak's demeanour all year has looked very off and i think the Alcaraz loss at W hurt him ,then the Davis Cup loss to Sinner really has affected him as in Australia he just looked out of sorts and it rumbled on into IW.
 
Can you really see him winning wimbledon? He arrived to this masters final gassed, can you really see him playing amazing for 2 weeks in 5 setters? I just cant
Grass is his best surface and its less tiring a surface with a day in between matches. I think he and Hurcacz are two dark horses for sure and more than capable of upsetting Sinner and Alcaraz if they run into them.
Then again Dimitrov has past form of looking amazing then going out in the 1r at a slam so i take your point
 
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