Sinner: "Tiafoe Went Too Far"

The Fedfather

Hall of Fame
Tiafoe's jokingly pretending to want to throw the racket at Sinner was not threatening at all, it didn't come off this way.

Pretty sure though that Sinner was upset about Tiafoe's general theatrical attitude during the match, not this incident. And while I don't see this as a big issue, it's not difficult to understand why someone would be more frustrated to be struggling in the match while their opponent is all jokes and smiles and playing up the crowd.
 

El_Yotamo

Hall of Fame
If this wasn't the latest of many times when Sinner let such a lead slip, I might have even sympathized with him. However, his inability to close out sets/matches is what caused his loss, and he just happened to have an excuse lying around. I love Jannik but that's a really poor mentality there
 

Moose Malloy

G.O.A.T.
I do think Sinner has a bit of a point here.

But try to imagine something like this happening to Pete. His opponent makes some good natured ribbing and tries to get the crowd involved.

Instead of getting broken like Sinner did, Pete would slam 4 straight aces down the T and be laughing with Tiafoe at the post-match handshake.

Levels.
Ha, it's way before your time but Rafter did the "give my racquet to a ball kid" bit after getting blown out in the first set by Pete at 98 Cincinnati. Pete was not amused and didn't want to rally with the kid. And guess who went on to win the match? But Pete didn't whine about it after(the overrule on match point was enough for him to be angry about that day)
 

Arak

Hall of Fame
I don’t know why umpires are taking more and more passive roles. Normally it’s the umpire‘s duty to make sure the play proceeds smoothly without interruptions and distractions.
 

Rovesciarete

Semi-Pro
Tiafoe behaved in a manner I have not seen for a long time in tennis at this level. His level of interaction with the crowd was extraordinary and his actions versus Sinner were also quite out of the ordinary. I have also rarely seen such a passive umpire although I have come to know the man. Now I don't say that Francis maliciously hit Sinner a couple of times at the net or intentionally broke his concentration by talking at the interchange or purposefully let him often wait while having all sorts of scenes. A weaker player losing against a stronger one might resort to such tactics intentionally but Francis might just have behaved naturally, more so as they have a friendly relationship.

Sinner pointed out factually correct events and gave his opinion on the issue and how he thinks he should react on a similar occasions in the future. Nothing less, nothing more. If people can come up with a very similar behavior at the latter stages of an ATP250+ I would be keen to learn. Overall I think Tiafoe respects Sinners qualities very much so since the NextGen where he first thought that he should win a Slam.
 
I like Sinner's game and he he still has lots of room for improvement, especially on the mental side of the game, even though he always seems deadpan serious, nerves still get to him.
On this occasion, I disagree with him, and I'm always adamant that distractions in tennis, like in all sports, are part of the game. It's up to you how you handle them and how you won't let them get to you. So I'm sorry, but if you let your opponent high-fiving the crowd or screaming "come on!" after every point, get in your head, you pretty much deserve to lose.
 

Winners or Errors

Hall of Fame
Oh my, how tennis has changed. Imagine Sinner-Connors or Sinner-Mac... Seriously, Sinner should have just kept his mouth shut here. He needs to learn how to keep his concentration. That said, to that point, based on the highlights, Sinner was playing above his normal level. It could be that he just came down to Earth and Tiafoe raised his game, which is a better explanation.
 

BumElbow

Semi-Pro
Sinner is 100% correct. Tiafoe's behavior was unprofessional and needs to be reigned in. Remember that acceptable behavior varies in different nations and parts of the world. What might be acceptable behavior to some in the USA is not acceptable in other parts of the world. Tiafoe's behavior crossed lines and he needs to clean up his act especially when playing in other nations.
 

junior74

Talk Tennis Guru
I kinda agree with Sinner. Not sure if Frances was doing it to get inside Jannik's head, but he was making a point of Sinner's great playing and was getting a little desperate with somewhat displaced attempts at humour.

We see a lot of this at club level: You're playing well, and on the changeover your opponent says "well, if you continue to play like that, this won't be a long match..." Everyone knows what happens next... :)

EDIT: I must add that I absolutely love watching Frances when he is playing well. He is one of the players I really hope can establish himself on a more consistently high level, lovely tennis.
 
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topher

Hall of Fame
Tiafoe behaved in a manner I have not seen for a long time in tennis at this level. His level of interaction with the crowd was extraordinary and his actions versus Sinner were also quite out of the ordinary. I have also rarely seen such a passive umpire although I have come to know the man. Now I don't say that Francis maliciously hit Sinner a couple of times at the net or intentionally broke his concentration by talking at the interchange or purposefully let him often wait while having all sorts of scenes. A weaker player losing against a stronger one might resort to such tactics intentionally but Francis might just have behaved naturally, more so as they have a friendly relationship.

Sinner pointed out factually correct events and gave his opinion on the issue and how he thinks he should react on a similar occasions in the future. Nothing less, nothing more. If people can come up with a very similar behavior at the latter stages of an ATP250+ I would be keen to learn. Overall I think Tiafoe respects Sinners qualities very much so since the NextGen where he first thought that he should win a Slam.
Hmm, I didn’t get to watch the full match. Are you saying Tiafoe did or didn’t hit Jannik at the net multiple times? Seems that would be in the highlight package.
 

Bluefan75

Professional
For those who followed college basketball in recent years, the name Grayson Allen holds a certain position of infamy. No less than three times he tripped an opponent in a game. One thing that was pointed out was that Allen, being a well to-do kid, likely never played in a playground, only ever in gyms with refs. So rather than getting his keister clocked like would happen on a playground, and thus teaching him not to do it again, he would just get called for fouls.

It's the same in tennis. Because you never cross the net, the whiners, etc., never face a real challenge to their attitude.

Tiafoe was having fun. IMO, anyone thinks that is threatening has never played a contact sport. He's over 40 feet away, FFS. What is he going to do? And he's smiling. If someone doesn't find it funny, ok, fine, different strokes, for different folks. But if you feel threatened by a guy over 40 feet away faking that, in a professional tennis match with ball kids, a chair ump and a bunch of spectators around, well, I hope those pearls have a nice case to stay in when they aren't being clutched.
 

Borissimo

New User
Did any of you guys actually see the match live? Threatening? It was so clearly a joke at the time, the commentators were laughing too. It was something a friend would do...maybe over the top but it wasn't in the least aggressive or threatening.
Thank you for clarifying for those here who weren't watching and are offering judgment. For anybody who was watching the match it was so obviously not threatening. It was an attempt at humor and simultaneously an acknowledgment that Sinner had hit an unbelievable shot off of a very good Tiafoe volley.
 

Borissimo

New User
Hmm, I didn’t get to watch the full match. Are you saying Tiafoe did or didn’t hit Jannik at the net multiple times? Seems that would be in the highlight package.
Tiafoe did hit Sinner once with a quick reaction volley when both were close to the net. Clearly wasn't intentional, Tiafoe didn't have enough reaction time to do anything other than block the volley back towards the middle, and Sinner wasn't expecting it right at him, and it got him right around the solar plexus.

Frankly a lot of posters want to judge Tiafoe's behavior for their own personal reasons.
 

Ace of Aces

Semi-Pro
Tiafoe is never going to contend for Edberg Awards, but he didn’t break any rules. Whining about showboating is more annoying than showboating
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
Frankly a lot of posters want to judge Tiafoe's behavior for their own personal reasons.
And what might those "personal reasons" be? Care to elaborate since you apparently know what's in the hearts and minds of "a lot of posters."

Amazing insight from someone who signed up here just today.

 

Winners or Errors

Hall of Fame
What's with the whining? Is this what the big three have done to tennis? Should we return to wearing all white and the impeccable manners of European nobility? Sorry folks. Tiafoe's all American. Love his antics. Enjoy his game. Seriously, how boring do y'all want this game to be? Is the only gamesmanship allowed wasting time, MTO's, and bathroom breaks? I seriously don't see what's wrong with Tiafoe's casual gesture. Was it too informal for some of you?
 

Borissimo

New User
And what might those "personal reasons" be? Care to elaborate since you apparently know what's in the hearts and minds of "a lot of posters."

Amazing insight from someone who signed up here just today.

Been on here a while just haven't felt like posting actually. Not that this has anything to do with it.

It doesn't take a lot of imagination to figure out where people's motives for policing his behavior are coming from. I've been watching and playing tennis my whole 45 years and Foe's behavior is pretty far from the way some people here described it ("classless", "clownish", etc).

Professional tennis has always been an elitist environment and some players are given a pass for violating supposed court etiquette, and some players aren't.
 

N01E

Hall of Fame
I don't even like Francis but this is an absolute clown moment from Sinner that will stay with him for quite a while. If he can't mentally handle Tiafoe then he's not made for the biggest stages for the world. Not only did he show that he is easily intimidated, but a sore loser as well.
 

topher

Hall of Fame
Been on here a while just haven't felt like posting actually. Not that this has anything to do with it.

It doesn't take a lot of imagination to figure out where people's motives for policing his behavior are coming from. I've been watching and playing tennis my whole 45 years and Foe's behavior is pretty far from the way some people here described it ("classless", "clownish", etc).

Professional tennis has always been an elitist environment and some players are given a pass for violating supposed court etiquette, and some players aren't.
It wasn’t so long ago Tsitsipas got a lot more flak than this for going to the bathroom between sets (as far as we know). Novak has gotten much flak this year for not hiding his injuries on-court better. In light of that, it makes zero sense to play the race card here.

Some people may either support or be against Tiafoe because of his race, but short of any evidence it makes little sense to assume racism one way or another.

Given you’re a new user and already baiting, there’s a decent chance I’m being trolled so I’ll leave it at that.
 

Borissimo

New User
It wasn’t so long ago Tsitsipas got a lot more flak than this for going to the bathroom between sets (as far as we know). Novak has gotten much flak this year for not hiding his injuries on-court better. In light of that, it makes zero sense to play the race card here.

Some people may either support or be against Tiafoe because of his race, but short of any evidence it makes little sense to assume racism one way or another.

Given you’re a new user and already baiting, there’s a decent chance I’m being trolled so I’ll leave it at that.
Fair point about the Tsitsipas business.
Don't see how it's baiting to point out elitism in how some players' behavior is policed by gatekeepers? I wasn't calling it racism although I'm sure that is an underlying element in some people's criticisms of him. Just pointing out the elitism and gatekeeper mentality of posters who clearly didn't watch the match but have some drastic judgments of how they think he behaved.
Does the length of time I've been posting have some sort of relevance to the subject at hand? Because you're the 2nd person to mention.
 

Aabye5

Hall of Fame
Ha, it's way before your time but Rafter did the "give my racquet to a ball kid" bit after getting blown out in the first set by Pete at 98 Cincinnati. Pete was not amused and didn't want to rally with the kid. And guess who went on to win the match? But Pete didn't whine about it after(the overrule on match point was enough for him to be angry about that day)
Pete is one of my favorites, but boy was he a stick in the mud. :p
 

Drob

Professional
And what might those "personal reasons" be? Care to elaborate since you apparently know what's in the hearts and minds of "a lot of posters."

Amazing insight from someone who signed up here just today.

Do you assume that long participation here is a sine qua non of legitimate comment?

I don’t think you do. Mosts of your posts are level-headed. I trust you just threw that out there on a whim.
 

Mr.Lob

Legend
To me, everything Tiafoe does - every gesture, theatrics etc. after points - is a failed attempt at humour. He tries so hard but it looks so weird, makes me cringe all the time, I usually have to look away. His tennis is amazing, the rest is the exact opposite.
Tiafoe looking a bit like Happy Gilmore out there. High fiving the crowd, throwing his instrument of employment...riding the bull. But, I thought the same thing, Tiafoe doesn't have enough swag to pull off the over the top theatrics. Reminded me a bit of Azarenka trying to dab.
 
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Drob

Professional
It wasn’t so long ago Tsitsipas got a lot more flak than this for going to the bathroom between sets (as far as we know). Novak has gotten much flak this year for not hiding his injuries on-court better. In light of that, it makes zero sense to play the race card here.

Some people may either support or be against Tiafoe because of his race, but short of any evidence it makes little sense to assume racism one way or another.

Given you’re a new user and already baiting, there’s a decent chance I’m being trolled so I’ll leave it at that.
What is “trolled” or “trolling”?
 

Drob

Professional
Hmm, I didn’t get to watch the full match. Are you saying Tiafoe did or didn’t hit Jannik at the net multiple times? Seems that would be in the highlight package.
He Definitively DID NOT “Intentionally” hit Sinner - they were were both on top of the net w/in a few feet of each other. Tiafoe hit a reaction volley that nearly hit Sinner and one that did hit Sinner (near the stomach). On the second of these Sinner would have hit Tiafoe if the latter hadn’t got his racket up. These things happen occasionally in friendly games and tournaments we all play.
 
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Bhagi Katbamna

Hall of Fame
Sinner is 100% correct. Tiafoe's behavior was unprofessional and needs to be reigned in. Remember that acceptable behavior varies in different nations and parts of the world. What might be acceptable behavior to some in the USA is not acceptable in other parts of the world. Tiafoe's behavior crossed lines and he needs to clean up his act especially when playing in other nations.
Gotta agree with you there, Italians hate hand gestures.
 

Bhagi Katbamna

Hall of Fame
He Definitively DID NOT “Intentionally” hit Sinner - they were were both on top of the net w/in a few feet of each other. Tiafoe hit a reaction volley that nearly hit Sinner and one that did hit Sinner (near the stomach). On the second of these Sinner would have hit Tiafoe if the latter hadn’t got his racket up. These things happen occasionally in friendly games and tournaments we all play.
One time, I hit my own doubles partner with a first serve right in the back of the head. We were down 5-2 and came back and won 5 games in a row and won.
 

Drob

Professional
It wasn’t so long ago Tsitsipas got a lot more flak than this for going to the bathroom between sets (as far as we know). Novak has gotten much flak this year for not hiding his injuries on-court better. In light of that, it makes zero sense to play the race card here.

Some people may either support or be against Tiafoe because of his race, but short of any evidence it makes little sense to assume racism one way or another.

Given you’re a new user and already baiting, there’s a decent chance I’m being trolled so I’ll leave it at that.
I will not criticize Novak, and any criticism was unwarranted. If it was a kind of gamesmanship - if - then he doesn’t get the Edberg award. Gamesmanship is part of the game.

But Tsitsipas was CHEATING straight up. For which he can soon be forgiven if he does not do it again.

Showmanship (which might = gamesmanship) is four time zones away from CHEATING.

CHEATING is not part of the game.
 

Fabresque

Hall of Fame
Sinner is 100% correct. Tiafoe's behavior was unprofessional and needs to be reigned in. Remember that acceptable behavior varies in different nations and parts of the world. What might be acceptable behavior to some in the USA is not acceptable in other parts of the world. Tiafoe's behavior crossed lines and he needs to clean up his act especially when playing in other nations.
I don't think it's necessarily being "unacceptable" or "bad behavior", he doesn't berate anybody or cause problems. But I do think he's trying to hard to be liked instead of just focusing on his game. Class clowns might be there for a few laughs, but there's a reason nobody takes them seriously.
 

Booger

Hall of Fame
I don't think it's necessarily being "unacceptable" or "bad behavior", he doesn't berate anybody or cause problems. But I do think he's trying to hard to be liked instead of just focusing on his game. Class clowns might be there for a few laughs, but there's a reason nobody takes them seriously.
Connors and Mcenroe were both clowns. So was Agassi for much of his career. Tennis currently has a yuge shortage of personalities, so I think it's fine.
 

Drob

Professional
Bro both Nadal and Djokovic have a long history of faking injuries. And Nadal doped more than an entire tour de france team. I don't think people care.
Some persons care. Integrity is not quite dead yet.

injuries are part of the game. I don’t know of Nadal or Djokovic faking injuries as such but Nadal has exaggerated injuries which is not classy.

I know there is suspicion about Nadal and Performance Enhancing Substances and techniques but nothing I know for certain save the blood spinning therapy on his knees, which apparently is within regulations. I am aware that for a short time he saw a physician who was heavily implicated in PEDs and was Ferrer’s doctor. But Rafa has also been subject to countless random (no notice) drug tests. I am not going to say (or tacitly assume) Rafa has violated any rule.

I don’t give a damn how Rafa portrays injuries - his 2014 AO loss to Warwinka fair-and-square; 2018 AO fair-and-square to Cilic; 2018 USO SF to del Potro fair-and-square and so on and so on. His injury excuses might lessen my admiration for the man but they are not cheating.

Bro, if you have chapter and verse on Nadal using banned PEDs, please post these specifics.
 
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Arak

Hall of Fame
I will not criticize Novak, and any criticism was unwarranted. If it was a kind of gamesmanship - if - then he doesn’t get the Edberg award. Gamesmanship is part of the game.

But Tsitsipas was CHEATING straight up. For which he can soon be forgiven if he does not do it again.

Showmanship (which might = gamesmanship) is four time zones away from CHEATING.

CHEATING is not part of the game.
Tiafoe admitted in the post match interview that he tried to disrupt Sinner by joking with the crowd and making him believe that he gave up on the match already. He was also talking to Sinner constantly, complimenting him and giving thumbs up. The thing is, Sinner did not complain to the umpire. If he did, he would have forced the umpire to address the issue. I am totally against turning a tennis match into a circus, but on the other hand, if the opponent doesn’t say anything during the match, he can’t complain about it after the match.
 

Drob

Professional
Tiafoe admitted in the post match interview that he tried to disrupt Sinner by joking with the crowd and making him believe that he gave up on the match already. He was also talking to Sinner constantly, complimenting him and giving thumbs up. The thing is, Sinner did not complain to the umpire. If he did, he would have forced the umpire to address the issue. I am totally against turning a tennis match into a circus, but on the other hand, if the opponent doesn’t say anything during the match, he can’t complain about it after the match.
Tiafoe reminds me of Borotra or a Borotra wanna-be. I doubt he will rise to the same level of phenomenal popularity and championship success, but he can give it a try.

there are quite a few top tennis players in history who were showmen.
 

Kralingen

Legend
Tiafoe reminds me of Borotra or a Borotra wanna-be. I doubt he will rise to the same level of phenomenal popularity and championship success, but he can give it a try.

there are quite a few top tennis players in history who were showmen.
Did you watch Borotra live?
 
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