Sinner vs Djokovic Shangai Final 2024

Who wins?


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Thank goodness you agree Beterbiev won. I thought he won as well.

I thought I was going mad reading some the post fight responses . Yeah can't wait for the rematch.

Bivol also looked pretty beat up by the end so I don't buy the whole - Beterbiev was just landing on gloves BS. He hurt him.
 
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what an impressive improvement. He went from 1 Master in his career to 2 slams and 3 masters in 2024 and year end number 1. No one like him. Bravo Jannik
Most impressive has also been Sinner's physical conditioning improvement. Even back in 2023 he seemed unable to cope physically in long matches, even losing to Tsitsipas of all people at the AO in a long 5 set match, but in 2024 he is a completely different animal. I wonder how he achieved that, but in any case props to his trainer.

:censored:
 
Yes it's compelling stuff going forward. But now we need more depth at the top. Djokovic will slowly fade and though these two young talents were badly needed given the state of the tour, we're still lacking depth at the top of the game. Right now we have 3 tier 1 players and a few virtual no-hoper tier 2 players. Need those 1.5 tier guys who have serious chances to play spoiler and get in on the hunt, but right now it's not clear who might rise there.
Machac himself has been very impressive this tournament. Fonseca is another good prospect. But I think it will be difficult to replicate what we had up to 7 or 8 years ago. We have been spoiled.
 
Sinner’s level was incredible in that second set. He was blasting the ball from both wings.

Sinner is the real deal. He’s now 65-6 for the season, which includes a remarkable 45-3 on hard courts. He now has 3 Masters titles on hard courts, along with 2 slams for a total of 5 big titles on hard courts. That puts him in very rare company now.

5 big titles on hard courts, single season:

7 Federer 2006
7 Djokovic 2015
5 Djokovic 2023
5 Sinner 2024

calendar year hard court slam:
Djoker 3
Federer 3
Sinner 1

There’s a common theme here. And Sinner is now a part of it.
 
Sinner’s level was incredible in that second set. He was blasting the ball from both wings.

Sinner is the real deal. He’s now 65-6 for the season, which includes a remarkable 45-3 on hard courts. He now has 3 Masters titles on hard courts, along with 2 slams for a total of 5 big titles on hard courts. That puts him in very rare company now.

5 big titles on hard courts, single season:

7 Federer 2006
7 Djokovic 2015
5 Djokovic 2023
5 Sinner 2024

calendar year hard court slam:
Djoker 3
Federer 3
Sinner 1

There’s a common theme here. And Sinner is now a part of it.
I will be making sinners goat pt calculation post year end. Let's see if he can sneak into top 20 seasons of all times.
 
God it's so insufferable that a poster here constantly attacks Carlos in every post when he's not even playing.

He can't even enjoy tennis, he just constantly talks about Carlos. Sick obsession :( Wish he would lay off or be put in his place.
I missed the match so I'm just reading through this thread and I see that poster, who was largely absent during the Beijing final not coincidentally, poisoning this thread as usual. I don't know what he's trying to accomplish but it makes Sinner threads a chore to read.

In any event, if there was any question before there isn't any more, 2024 is Sinner's year so congrats to him. He should be the heavy favorite at Turin. As an Alcaraz fan, I hope he starts to take HCs more seriously because it was a poor showing from him this year on medium to fast HCs.
 
I doubt you'd be saying this had he beaten any other player today lol.

no, I'd have said the same vs most of the players of the worst gens (89-99 ). Even someone overhyped from latest gen like Rune.

what you shouldn't doubt is the world doesn't revolve around GigaLuckovic.
 
no, I'd have said the same vs most of the players of the worst gens (89-99 ). Even someone overhyped from latest gen like Rune.

what you shouldn't doubt is the world doesn't revolve around GigaLuckovic.
Such a shame for you that you never got to post a similar message ("good work from Alcaraz") after the Olympics final haha.
 
Djokovic played extremely well in the first set and before they played the tiebreak, I would definitely say he was the better player. With Sinner down 0-30 in that 4-5 game, Sinner did what he has done over and over again this year, i.e., dig himself out of 0-30, 15-30, 15-40, 30-40 situations on serve. It has been remarkable.

Then, in the TB, he did what the big three had been doing all throughout the careers, which is facing an opponent who is playing really well and maybe even got out played for an entire set, but then it goes to the tiebreaker and all of a sudden they are the better player.

Sinners serve can definitely get better and so can his court game finish at Matt after both powerful ground folks. Honestly, if he does that and he can keep his movement, it’ll be very very difficult to defeat him.
 
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You seem obsessed with that poster—weird.
Not obsessed, I just find it strange how he resents Djokovic's success so much and all because his favourite player was surpassed by him. He never congratulates Djokovic for his achievements but is quick to say well done to whoever beats him. Quite sad really.
 
Not obsessed, I just find it strange how he resents Djokovic's success so much and all because his favourite player was surpassed by him. He never congratulates Djokovic for his achievements but is quick to say well done to whoever beats him. Quite sad really.
Many of the losers say grapes are sour. I have ignored 200+ copium addicts.
 
Title #17 for Sinner (moving him ahead of the 4 other players on 16 and ranking him joint 6th with Thiem in the leaderboard of active players with titles). It's his 7th title this season making it the most number of titles won in a season since Murray (who won 9 in 2016). It his 4th title at Masters 1000 level and 3rd this season (the most won since Nadal in 2018). He also becomes:

1. The youngest player to win the title in Shanghai.
2. The 1st Italian player to win the title in Shanghai.
3. The 1st player to beat Djokovic in a final at Shanghai (Djokovic had won the 4 previous).
 
It is amazing that Djokovic can still hang in there with Sinner at his age, to be honest. Sinner was lucky he didn't have to play Alcaraz again, and that Machac got rid of Carlos for him, though.
 
For the people that are convinced that Sinner doped: How is he currently playing like THIS while likely being tested like crazy?

I don't think anyone is questioning that, the issue raised by almost every one including other players is why he was not suspended not even 4 months!
 
Title #17 for Sinner (moving him ahead of the 4 other players on 16 and ranking him joint 6th with Thiem in the leaderboard of active players with titles). It's his 7th title this season making it the most number of titles won in a season since Murray (who won 9 in 2016). It his 4th title at Masters 1000 level and 3rd this season (the most won since Nadal in 2018). He also becomes:

1. The youngest player to win the title in Shanghai.
2. The 1st Italian player to win the title in Shanghai.
3. The 1st player to beat Djokovic in a final at Shanghai (Djokovic had won the 4 previous).
He is the first player to beat Djokovic in ANY final in China, Djokovic was 10-0 heading in.
 
There loads of people even in this forum calling him juiced, doped etc. and it's frankly ridiculous
unfortunately, Sinner will be stuck with that label for the rest of his career for some fans or haters as you may call, it is what it s, when athletes failed the drug test, they can never fully recover from it.
 
It is amazing that Djokovic can still hang in there with Sinner at his age, to be honest. Sinner was lucky he didn't have to play Alcaraz again, and that Machac got rid of Carlos for him, though.
Sinner has the highest floor level since 2004-2007 Federer (whil post a thread about this). His game is so straightforward and replicable that it becomes very, very difficult to defeat him and nearly impossible to defeat him easily. I would say, though, that Carlitos’s peak game both here and in Beijing was a tad bit higher, but his floor game is lower.
 
Sinner has the highest floor level since 2004-2007 Federer (whil post a thread about this). His game is so straightforward and replicable that it becomes very, very difficult to defeat him and nearly impossible to defeat him easily. I would say, though, that Carlitos’s peak game both here and in Beijing was a tad bit higher, but his floor game is lower.
Very consistent highest level indeed
 
unfortunately, Sinner will be stuck with that label for the rest of his career for some fans or haters as you may call, it is what it s, when athletes failed the drug test, they can never fully recover from it.
The only question is whether he was doping intentionally or not. The only thing we know is that he got caught with banned substances in his system, and that some expensive lawyers (including an ITIA lawyer that actually prosecutes other athletes in a similar situation to Sinner) made it so he didn't have to serve any ban, and that WADA is appealing.

It looks ugly, but nobody forced Sinner to be incompetent or to hire incompetent people. Nobody else is responsible for him testing positive.
 
Awesome! My gut is that he will crack the top-20.
He will probably crack top 10. Right now I am calculating 64 pts as per uts system which brings him right at Andy Murray's best season of 2016.


There is still a masters and atp finals remaining. I know masters in the past had lower importance but only 14 pts from 64 came from masters. Even if I remove masters, he would be near Nadal 2017 season inside top 50.
 
Federer in 2005 had 2 slams and 2 masters along with atp finals.

Sinner is on pace to go beyond Fed 2005. The large number of Fed wins came in 250s and 500s.
 
Do you think Lance and Jannik have the same personalities? I do not
I have seen true monsters that appear to be kind people, so I don't put too much importance on appearances. And it doesn't take a monster to dope. In the scale of human depravity that is about 0.5 out of 10.

I also don't think Sinner doped. I have no opinion one way or another. What I know is that at least there is a fault of negligence, and that employing a lawyer who has prosecuted other tennis players in Sinner's position is shady.
 
I have seen true monsters that appear to be kind people, so I don't put too much importance on appearances. And it doesn't take a monster to dope. In the scale of human depravity that is about 0.5 out of 10.
You do realise he gets tested al the time though, right? And that what they found was considered by experts to be irrelevant? This witch hunt and labeling is the equivalent of getting a parking ticket and being labelled a criminal. Enough with the BS already. Hope you trigger-happy heroes get the same name calling you've been reserving him when your faux pas comes along.
 
In what way is Jannik Sinner currently similar to Lance Armstrong?

Are you insinuating that he is currently doping while constantly being tested and after having a billionth of a gram found twice earlier in the year? What a fascinating leap in logic you've graced us with! :laughing:
I don't need to insinuate anything. The fact is that he got caught with a PED in his system. You can make of it what you want.

When did I say he is currently doping? For all I know, he could. But he also could not, I have no idea. I never said anything about whether he is currently doping, though.

My point is that all we know is that he tested positive and that some expensive lawyers got him off the hook (including a lawyer who has worked for ITIA and who has prosecuted other athletes in his same situation). Anything else is speculation.

As for the quantity detected, that is the way doping and in particular microdosing works. PEDs are metabolized within a time frame, and any markers have a half life, and if someone is doping most of the time you are only going to get traces.
 
In what way is Jannik Sinner currently similar to Lance Armstrong?

Are you insinuating that he is currently doping while constantly being tested and after having a billionth of a gram found twice earlier in the year? What a fascinating leap in logic you've graced us with! :laughing:
My comment about Lance letting his bicycle do the talking was a response to Sinner "letting his racket do the talking". It doesn't make any sense.
 
You do realise he gets tested al the time though, right? And that what they found was considered by experts to be irrelevant? This witch hunt and labeling is the equivalent of getting a parking ticket and being labelled a criminal. Enough with the BS already. Hope you trigger-happy heroes get the same name calling you've been reserving him when your faux pas comes along.
As I said, I have no idea whether Sinner doped deliberately or not. What I know is that he got caught with banned substances in his system, and that he got off the hook easier than many other tennis players would have.

I have also said before that doping ranks very low in my mental scale of human evils, and even if Sinner doped it doesn't make him a bad person, much less a "criminal". It doesn't mean he should get off as easily as he did though. The rules should be the same for everyone.
 
My point is that saying that Sinner lets his racket do the talking doesn't make any sense. Whether Sinner wins on court doesn't prove anything about his innocence.
My point is that his best possible reply to pointless and rude accusations, also made on this forum, is : keep winning and make them cry more
 
My point is that his best possible reply to pointless and rude accusations is : keep winning and make them cry more
OK, I see your point now. I also have never accused Sinner of doping deliberately. People who say he is a doper are as misguided as the ones who claim he has no fault in all this. It is possible that even if he didn't dope deliberately he violated the rules.
 
Lmao shameless fans bringing Carlos in here despite the 0-3 whooping this year. Sit down and learn to enjoy your wins.
Should be 3-1 though. After shamelessly losing to average player in QF running away from eventual SF with Sinner.
I mean.. it's easy to keep a positive H2H when you just lose to mugs to avoid confrontation.
That is why Sinner is solid #1, even with a 0-3 H2H with Carlos.
 
Should be 3-1 though. After shamelessly losing to average player in QF running away from eventual SF with Sinner.
I mean.. it's easy to keep a positive H2H when you just lose to mugs to avoid confrontation.
That is why Sinner is solid #1, even with a 0-3 H2H with Carlos.
4-1 because Sinner was too much of a wuss to face Alcaraz at Wimbledon.
 
Did Nole have the 100 tourny t-shirt in his bag?
Vs jannik ? Not likely.

Djokovic is pretty honest guy on his face at least. last year he did not respect alcaraz and thought he had the trophy in hand at Wimbledon. But after getting beaten up badly by sineraz, I think even he has to lower expectations.
 
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