Situational usages for 1H BH slice/topspin/flat groundstroke?

Which BH stroke is the most used BH for intermediate players?


  • Total voters
    16

tanventure

New User
I would like to have better understanding on what situations slice/topspin/flat stroke should be used such as for the following conditions:

1. Based on the height of coming ball: low/waist level/high?
2. Based on the speed/pace of coming ball: low speed/medium/fast ?
3. Based on the closeness to body: close/medium/far away ?
4. Based on your intentions: defense/neutral/offense?
5. Based on the difficulties to learn? Is BH slice easier to learn than others?
6. Based on players' skill level: which one is essential to learn, say, for a 3.5 player? slice or flat?

Compared with my FH, my BH are very limited, I can play 2H BH flat and 1H BH slice only. Here are my understandings:
  • use slice for low coming ball, low speed, far away, defense;
  • use topspin/flat for waist level/high ball, fast ball, close body, neutral/offense;
  • slice is easier to learn so far;
  • not so sure which one I should be focused on to improve, slice or flat;
Thank you in advance for your comments/suggestions.
 
I vote for TS over flat; better margin of error. It will likely take you longer to get good at but the long-term benefits outweigh the short-term learning curve, IMO.

Slice is great for defense, a change-up, keeping the ball low, approaching the net; all sorts of things!

TS should be your "go to" shot. It's not necessarily just for offense: great for neutral shots also. I have a hard time with the stretch 2HBH TS/block when on the defenseive so I tend to use 1HBH slice.
 
there is no such thing called bh flat.

i think the approach is wrong... just develop the shots first, then shot selection will be automatic depending on the situation.

too bad most amateurs' 1hbh topspin is terrible.. it's actually a very simple shot.. develop it, make it solid, it will become the default.... then you throw in the slice for wide stretches or change of rhythm.
 
there is no such thing called bh flat.

I don't know: Connors hit awfully non-spinny [ie flat].

i think the approach is wrong... just develop the shots first, then shot selection will be automatic depending on the situation.

Yeah but he's asking for feedback. He hasn't gotten to the automatic stage yet so he can't develop the shot when he's still trying to figure out what shot to develop.

too bad most amateurs' 1hbh topspin is terrible.. it's actually a very simple shot.. develop it, make it solid, it will become the default.... then you throw in the slice for wide stretches or change of rhythm.

Like any shot, it's simple for someone who has mastered it. It's not so simple for those who have not.
 
Flat backhand doesn't exist, but I suspect OP mostly meant more loopy topspin shot vs a more penetrating shot.
 
I would like to have better understanding on what situations slice/topspin/flat stroke should be used such as for the following conditions:

1. Based on the height of coming ball: low/waist level/high?
2. Based on the speed/pace of coming ball: low speed/medium/fast ?
3. Based on the closeness to body: close/medium/far away ?
4. Based on your intentions: defense/neutral/offense?
5. Based on the difficulties to learn? Is BH slice easier to learn than others?
6. Based on players' skill level: which one is essential to learn, say, for a 3.5 player? slice or flat?

Compared with my FH, my BH are very limited, I can play 2H BH flat and 1H BH slice only. Here are my understandings:
  • use slice for low coming ball, low speed, far away, defense;
  • use topspin/flat for waist level/high ball, fast ball, close body, neutral/offense;
  • slice is easier to learn so far;
  • not so sure which one I should be focused on to improve, slice or flat;
Thank you in advance for your comments/suggestions.
Assuming a 1hbh and that the below conditions are at the extreme ends
1. Based on the height of coming ball: low/waist level/high? Slice, TS, Slice
2. Based on the speed/pace of coming ball: low speed/medium/fast ? TS/Slice, TS/Slice, Slice/flat block
3. Based on the closeness to body: close/medium/far away ? Anything you can manage to not get jammed, TS/Slice, Slice
4. Based on your intentions: defense/neutral/offense? slice to gain time/high TS to gain time, TS/Slice, TS/Slice if you want to attack the net and force the player to hit up
5. Based on the difficulties to learn? Is BH slice easier to learn than others? In my opinion yes, but some have difficulty with it
6. Based on players' skill level: which one is essential to learn, say, for a 3.5 player? slice or flat? Slice as an all situation go to shot
 
I don't know: Connors hit awfully non-spinny [ie flat].



Yeah but he's asking for feedback. He hasn't gotten to the automatic stage yet so he can't develop the shot when he's still trying to figure out what shot to develop.



Like any shot, it's simple for someone who has mastered it. It's not so simple for those who have not.

OP asked about 1hbh... btw, name 1 more pro who consistently hit balls 2mm over the net like Connors did... it's a special talent, not a legit style for amateurs to copy

the answer is to develop both... both TS and slices are no big deal if taught correctly.

valid point about 'mastered it'.... but still, I can teach a 3.5-4.0 guy a TS 1hbh much faster than a TS fh... the mechanics is just simpler with the bh.
 
Yeah, one of my buddies has a great one hander, it is shocking because it is so rare to see a great one in rec tennis.

the shot is actually very simple..... the problem is this shot cannot be learned in 'hand-me-down' style by the older players to younger players in the rec crowd.... all the oldies hit this old style shot suited for wooden rackets on grass, and the shot is useless in today's topspin game done with 100 in rackets with polys.

then we have the very young kids starting out, all taught with the 2hbh..

then if an adult rec guy goes to take a lesson on 1hbh, half the teaching pros can't hit this shot themselves.
 
OP asked about 1hbh... btw, name 1 more pro who consistently hit balls 2mm over the net like Connors did... it's a special talent, not a legit style for amateurs to copy

Which is why in my original response I wrote "I vote for TS over flat; better margin of error. It will likely take you longer to get good at but the long-term benefits outweigh the short-term learning curve, IMO."

the answer is to develop both

Agreed.
 
there is no such thing called bh flat.

Not sure if this is true for professional players or amateur? See the followings, from Backhand wikipedia page:
Many great players employ a combination of two or even three different styles. For example, Stanislas Wawrinka, who is said to have one of the most powerful single-handed backhands ever, can hit extremely flat backhands, but can also apply top-spin to them. Roger Federer and Grigor Dimitrov are able to apply all three, using the slice, flat and top-spin backhands effectively. This variety makes it hard for the opponent to guess what kind of shot they are going to play.
 
Not sure if this is true for professional players or amateur? See the followings, from Backhand wikipedia page:
Many great players employ a combination of two or even three different styles. For example, Stanislas Wawrinka, who is said to have one of the most powerful single-handed backhands ever, can hit extremely flat backhands, but can also apply top-spin to them. Roger Federer and Grigor Dimitrov are able to apply all three, using the slice, flat and top-spin backhands effectively. This variety makes it hard for the opponent to guess what kind of shot they are going to play.

I would concentrate less on pros and more on your own game. If you can develop all 3, more power to you. If you had to pick 2, I'd pick TS & slice.
 
Not sure if this is true for professional players or amateur? See the followings, from Backhand wikipedia page:

the so called 'flat' is really just a flatter TS... once a player develops a sound TS shot, he can choose a flat swing path in certain situations.
 
Thank you all for your replies, very helpful for me to understand and improve my BH strokes.

For FH strokes, people learn to hit flat FH stroke first, then learn slice or topspin. Why for BH strokes not to learn flat stroke first, then topspin/slice? I thought, at least for 2H BH flat stroke is easier than top spine.

Can someone elaborate a bit more on this ?

Thanks
 
For FH strokes, people learn to hit flat FH stroke first, then learn slice or topspin.

Thanks

says who lol.

the FH side is a similar story, there is really just 1 stroke, the TS.... but you can flatten the swing path so the ball goes flatter, but not flat.

FH slice is not widely used because the body is not built to do this comfortably.
 
says who lol.

the FH side is a similar story, there is really just 1 stroke, the TS.... but you can flatten the swing path so the ball goes flatter, but not flat.

FH slice is not widely used because the body is not built to do this comfortably.


Thanks, I recalled from my past reading that there are no pure flat/topspin/slice ball, most of the balls are a mixture of flat/topspin, or flat/slice, etc., but for teaching purpose we always talk about flat/topspin/slice separately.
 
I play 1hbh, though I use to play 2 hander in the past.
For my backhand, I probably use topspin 50% of the time and slice backhand the other 50% of the time.
I mainly use slice for 1) low bounces 2) while being stretched out wide 3) being late and 4) on approach shots
I use topspin backhand for anything else, even high balls. I almost never hit any backhand flat, its too error-prone. Gotta go with a good amount of topspin for net clearance, especially if you're not a tall player. I use to hit with a guy who hit almost a pure flat 1hbh and most of his shots would either land a couple inches inside the baseline or hitting the back fence.

Regarding the basics, I would say slice backhand is easier to learn than topspin 1HBH. While 2 hander is probably the simplest to learn, but requires more effort to use aggressively.
 
Compared with my FH, my BH are very limited, I can play 2H BH flat and 1H BH slice only. Here are my understandings:
  • use slice for low coming ball, low speed, far away, defense;
  • use topspin/flat for waist level/high ball, fast ball, close body, neutral/offense;
  • slice is easier to learn so far;
  • not so sure which one I should be focused on to improve, slice or flat;
I'll offer my take on things.

First off, I like to refer to any general stroke that includes both a racquet release through contact and follow-through as a topspin stroke. That shot may have more topspin, which can be more "loopy", or less topspin, which is considered more "flat".

If your current two-handed backhand is a bit flat - not much topspin on it - that's fine. The basic alterations that will likely generate more topspin with that same stroke should include a more angular swing path through the ball (more low-to-high) combined with a racquet face that's slightly more closed at contact. This more spinny shot demands more precise timing that a flatter swing through the ball, but obviously helps with turning the ball over and keeping it down on the court, especially as we build a stronger shot and start hitting the ball with more speed.

As for topspin vs. slice, I personally believe that neither shot is a higher priority. I think that both rank among the essentials that every player needs in the toolbox, but it becomes tricky if one style comes more naturally than the other. The easier, more natural shot is more fun to practice - it's more rewarding - and that can easily leave the other shot in the back seat where it gets less attention - less development. Be careful to work deliberately on both.

Although different shots can be used in different situations, I sometimes use a very simple flow chart during point play. In my general baseline rally mode of play, I'll default to my topspin strokes unless I recognize that I can't hit them. If I'm too stretched off to one side, if the incoming ball is too low, or maybe it's coming too fast, I'll go with my slice.

I deliberately use my slice as part of the plan in a couple of situations. If I want to disrupt an opponent's baseline rhythm, I'll alternate my topspin shots with slice. If I'm attacking a short ball and following that shot to the net, I prefer to use a slice as an approach shot. I believe that I can more effectively deny opponents a strong response with this shot because it skids and stays low (when I hit it well).
 
Thanks, I recalled from my past reading that there are no pure flat/topspin/slice ball, most of the balls are a mixture of flat/topspin, or flat/slice, etc., but for teaching purpose we always talk about flat/topspin/slice separately.

More on the point: since hit flat is the only force to make ball flying towards to the court of your opponent, topspin and slice can't really drive the ball forward. So is it right to say that any topspin or slice balls are actually flat/topsipn or flat/slice balls, say, 60% flat and 40% topspin or slice?
 
If your current two-handed backhand is a bit flat - not much topspin on it - that's fine. The basic alterations that will likely generate more topspin with that same stroke should include a more angular swing path through the ball (more low-to-high) combined with a racquet face that's slightly more closed at contact. This more spinny shot demands more precise timing that a flatter swing through the ball, but obviously helps with turning the ball over and keeping it down on the court, especially as we build a stronger shot and start hitting the ball with more speed.

.

Thanks, very helpful, especially the above paragraph on how to make the change from 2H BH flat to 2H BH topspin.

Indeed the timing is very critical to hit topspin, will try hard to learn, wonder if you or anyone have any tips or drills to do it right?
 
I think that the important thing when deciding to use more or less topspin is recognizing what's happening with the incoming ball. Topspin is the element that allows us to hit the ball harder/faster back across the net and still land it on the opponent's court with a greater margin for error. If the incoming ball is going to bounce up rather high for you, a relatively flat drive can still come down easily enough with the help of gravity. But when you'll be contacting the ball at a lower height, that's when it needs to get over the net and turn over more sharply to still land in.

If your natural backhand stroke is producing a rather flat drive now, an easy way to work on generating more topspin is to alter your grip so that the racquet face is slightly more closed (angled downward). When you alter your grip like this, expect your first few strokes to go down into the net or maybe even hit your court before reaching the net. That's normal.

Stick with that same "stronger" grip position and you should instinctively start "lifting" through the ball with more of a low-to-high swing path to get your shot over the net. That swing path combined with your more angled racquet face should get more topspin happening for you. Everyone has their own preference for how to grip their two-handed backhand - there's no specific right or wrong - but your grip position should allow for a comfortable sweep through the ball without having to contort your wrists to control the shot.

An easy way to alter the spin you need with your backhand is to alternate your rally direction with a hitting pal. When you hit backhands down the line, you'll need more topspin given the higher net and shorter court. When you hit cross court, you're hitting over the lowest part of the net and the diagonal gives you more than four extra feet of length to land your shot in the far corner. So cross court can be a bit more flat, especially when the incoming ball bounces up higher, while the down the line backhands demand more spin.

You can also work on your topspin with a hitting pal by trying to hit extreme cross court backhands to each other by standing in your doubles alleys and perhaps a step or two inside the baseline. If you're using a ball machine, you can take feeds to your backhand corner and alternate those targets that require different spin. Two this way, two that way, etc.
 
An easy way to alter the spin you need with your backhand is to alternate your rally direction with a hitting pal. When you hit backhands down the line, you'll need more topspin given the higher net and shorter court. When you hit cross court, you're hitting over the lowest part of the net and the diagonal gives you more than four extra feet of length to land your shot in the far corner. So cross court can be a bit more flat, especially when the incoming ball bounces up higher, while the down the line backhands demand more spin.

Thank you for your suggestions, very helpful, in fact I have been working on cross court with both FH and BH, will add BH down the line to my drills in the future.
 
1. Slice backhand is the most underrated shot. If you can consistently hit it with depth, without floating it or make sure it bounces low, It is just as effective as any topspin shot. Use it against heavy footed lazy movers as it requires good footwork to counter.
2. Topspin backhand, literally do the fuzznation drill. So you need to be able to hit the area in between the service line and the baseline on the ad side with your topspin backhand in your sleep. So crosscourt drills with the occasional dtl alternating drill thrown in to mix it up. The one hander also gives you that sharpish angle more so than a 2 hander in my experience.
3. There is such thing as a "flat" backhand. I occasionally start looping my backhand and on a slow surface it doesn't work. So i need to flatten it out occasionally, to gain some depth and penetration. Doesn't mean you go for a screaming winner. It is actually better to slow the racket head speed for this shot, but this might be something I do, to mix it up. Give it a try.

In terms of contact points, the safe options are easy. Low balls, slice. High balls - loop back with high net clearance. I do find though that slicing low balls can result in a floater. I love slicing high balls, I don't put that much spin on it and it penetrates more.
THE most important thing though, is footwork and contact point. I still have to remember to hit the one hander early and in front. I don't even struggle with high heavy topspin shots if I focus on this.
 
THE most important thing though, is footwork and contact point. I still have to remember to hit the one hander early and in front. I don't even struggle with high heavy topspin shots if I focus on this.

Thanks for your suggestions, especially the last point, I am still trying hard on my footwork and right contact point.
 
Do you notice any correlation with age?

Almost all of the 4.5s are mid 30s and up, and almost all use a 1HBH. I can think of maybe one who uses a 2HBH. There are a few teenagers who play with the 4.5+ group, and they all use a 2HBH (but they are too young to be adult USTA rated, so not technically 4.5).

As an aside note - most/all of the teenagers cannot hang in 4.5+ doubles with the adults due to lack of consistency and also (surprisingly) power. The biggest problem with the teenage group is lack of core strength and balance. Basically, lack of physical development. It's like their tennis coaches told them to stay out of the gym and not eat meat. In order to play with the 4.5+ men, they need to put down the tennis racquet for a while and do Starting Strength or even just "squats and milk" for 6 months. In adult 4.5, they are going up against guys who are 33 years old, spent their 20s doing squats, cleans, and bench, and have 15-20+ years of experience playing tennis. They get blown off the court and look gaunt out there.
 
1HBH top spin. They do not use slice more than anyone else would.

3.5-4.0 are almost all 2HBH.

Just an interesting tendency that I have noticed. Not sure what, if anything, it means.

if you can hit a GOOD 1hbh, you likely would have understood the principle of shot making - keeping the racket angle constant.. once you do that, 4.5 is within reach as long as you have decent fitness.

the 1hbh is a shot that it's either a beauty, or a piece of crap.... there is nothing in between.

the 2hbh however, can be hit in bastardized ways.... which is why the 3.5-4.0 crowd like it.
 
I would like to have better understanding on what situations slice/topspin/flat stroke should be used such as for the following conditions:

1. Based on the height of coming ball: low/waist level/high?
2. Based on the speed/pace of coming ball: low speed/medium/fast ?
3. Based on the closeness to body: close/medium/far away ?
4. Based on your intentions: defense/neutral/offense?
5. Based on the difficulties to learn? Is BH slice easier to learn than others?
6. Based on players' skill level: which one is essential to learn, say, for a 3.5 player? slice or flat?

Compared with my FH, my BH are very limited, I can play 2H BH flat and 1H BH slice only. Here are my understandings:
  • use slice for low coming ball, low speed, far away, defense;
  • use topspin/flat for waist level/high ball, fast ball, close body, neutral/offense;
  • slice is easier to learn so far;
  • not so sure which one I should be focused on to improve, slice or flat;
Thank you in advance for your comments/suggestions.
I'm used to using a one-hand backhand slice when I feel like using it and want to surprise my opponent. You must determine how much effort and lift to use on your slice in any given situation.
 
Most of the people that I play against with 1HBH hit a fairly flat backhand most of the time and it's usually with a fair amount of pace.

I like to hit topspin off high balls, flattish to some topspin to waist-high balls and it varies on low balls. I find that sometimes I prefer to hit with a loose wrist - particularly on heavy topspin shots but will hit with a firmer wrist on flattish shots. On short, low balls, I often like to hit a hard inside-outside slice down-the-line and come in.
 
You mean when yourself is stretched, correct? And/or backing off on deep, high bouncing balls?

yes when i am stretched i use the slice to recover.

Do NOT back off on high balls.. this is the weakness of the old style 1hbh without the ESR action and the strike zone is tiny.. with the correct ESR action, I can rip (to the limit of my physical ability) balls 2 feet above my head... this how the pros do it today.
 
yes when i am stretched i use the slice to recover.

Do NOT back off on high balls.. this is the weakness of the old style 1hbh without the ESR action and the strike zone is tiny.. with the correct ESR action, I can rip (to the limit of my physical ability) balls 2 feet above my head... this how the pros do it today.

Nice and you wouldn't happen to have, by any chance, some slow motion videos of said pros hitting balls above their head, with ESR? Or yours for that matter :D
 
Nice and you wouldn't happen to have, by any chance, some slow motion videos of said pros hitting balls above their head, with ESR? Or yours for that matter :D


at 00:50, he hits one at nose level while on his toes... the motion CAN hit balls above his head, it's just that the power diminishes too much up there, and in pro games you don't see many balls bounce that high (without being taken on the rise)..

in amateur play however, moon balls are plenty and I do hit them above my head if needed.
 

at 00:50, he hits one at nose level while on his toes... the motion CAN hit balls above his head, it's just that the power diminishes too much up there, and in pro games you don't see many balls bounce that high (without being taken on the rise)..

in amateur play however, moon balls are plenty and I do hit them above my head if needed.

Thanks, that was hit at chest level imho and I can do that as well, have yet to try head level or above, wit the same motion (except sliced).
 
First would like to thank you all for sharing your experiences and suggestions, very helpful. Here are a few more things like to know your
thoughts:

To compare 1HBH and 2HBH in terms of hitting power and reaction time:

1. which one can hit more powerful ball to reach baseline, in general?
To me 2HBH has more power, simply because I can use both hands to hit while it's hard to hit 1HBH slice with power. Maybe I am still not used to hit 1HBH slice yet.

2. Open stance for 2HBH and close/neutral stance for 1HBH
I understand 2HBH can be used for fast incoming ball because no need to setup close/neural stance, also no need to have a big back swing
while 1HBH is only good for slower incoming ball. Is this correct?
 
Depends on the age group and what you define as intermediate. Younger - 2hbh. Older - one handed backhand. Topspin and flat is also relative. At a higher level, a flat shot can have a ton of spin.

As for the specific questions:
1) Depends on skill and intent. I only hit slices on low balls if I get to them late. High balls, most good players (which in my opinion aren't intermediates) hit high, heavy topspin when off balance and flatter when on balance. Low balls, usually topspin unless they got there late, then slice. Mid height, topspin or flat based on the situation and intent.
2) Depends on where the ball lands and how high and when you get there. It also depends on your style. Some players hit topspin on everything. Some hit flat on everything. It also depends on your speed threshold. If it's beyond your comfortable speed, you'll probably hit flatter since the primary focus is on clean contact and getting the ball in. Otherwise, you'll probably take a full cut and use some topspin for control.
3) What? You mean how much you have to run? Or where you contact the ball relative to your body? If the former, you hit slice if you're on the defensive or fully stretched, and topspin/flat otherwise. If the latter, shot selection doesn't matter, you already botched the shot, fix your footwork.
4) Defense is usually slice or high, heavy topspin. Neutral is topspin. Offense is flat (with only enough topspin for control).
5) 2hbh>1hbh slice>1hbh topspin/flat in terms of ease of learning. Any one handed backhand requires a development of wrist strength and back strength in addition to hand-eye coordination in order to execute. 2hbh has the benefit of having the left arm give stability.
6) 3.5 needs to learn consistency, so topspin. Keep it simple until you master the fundamentals. Yes, to win competitively, you'll be tempted to learn other things that will make it easier to win against certain opponents, but your priority should be to hit the cleanest topspin shots you can hit and move the guy around.


1) Doesn't matter. At lower levels, 2hbh because it's easier to learn, stability is massive for lower level players. At higher levels, you can hit deep while flailing your arms like a moron because you know how to hit with depth. Most power though is a fully developed 1hbh. But you'll probably never reach that point. Very few do.
2) No. Back when I practiced (and used a full eastern backhand grip), I crushed faster balls harder than slow balls. And even if I didn't have time to swing at them, I could still half volley them deep or bunt them deep. The type of stroke doesn't matter. It's your mastery of hitting a tennis ball (and preparation of such) that matters. That's why you have a ton of players with funky looking shots that can bagel your ass. Serena and Venus got bageled by a chainsmoker with the weirdest mechanics ever (he even smoke on change overs). At lower levels, yes, but that's because these players haven't developed the strength and coordination to hit the ball well, so having the left arm to hit with makes a massive difference. What's easier, slapping someone with the back of your hand or your palm? Your palm, because you're more used to that motion, it's easier and more natural.

You're massively overcomplicating things. Pick one, learn topspin, and spam topspin forever until the end of time or you become a solid 4.0. And when in trouble, think "get the ball in and get it deep, and if possible, to a side of the court". Let that be your guide, and you're solid. Once you've gotten the basic stroke mechanics down, focus on early preparation and good footwork to give yourself the correct space to swing.
 
No such thing as flat. If you're hitting a truly flat ball and its going in the court, you're hitting too soft for any of this to matter. Its TS or slice and then how you manage it.
 
I went for 1HBH slice and 1HBH topspin on the assumption that all four strokes in the options are hit with the same level of proficiency.

In which case, a topspin 1HBH can be both safe and be a weapon against intermediate players compared to a flat 2HBH, which will pretty much always sit up in everyone's strike zone.
 
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