Skipping training

[Smecz]

How much time a week should you spend training and how much playing a match?

We Amateurs often overlook this important element to improve our game, playing most matches.

When it comes to training, I'm talking about playing basket etc.

For example:
I mostly play matches, very little practice.

And it's practice that makes perfect, so I'm thinking about starting to do more training.

How does it look on yours?!

 

[socallefty]

I play 5 matches (3 singles, 2 doubles typically) a week and do practice drills/lessons twice a week. When the weather is sunny/hot, I might play twice on some weekend days which means even more hitting drills. I don’t do random rallying though as I don’t think it helps to improve much.

If I just wanted to improve my tennis, I should probably practice more, do tennis-specific workouts and play less matches. But, my schedule is fun for me.

 

[Happi]

My ratio is about 5:1 practice:matches it takes a lot of practice to be able to convert the learning to matches, but I believe its worth it.

 

[Smecz]

My ratio is about 5:1 practice:matches it takes a lot of practice to be able to convert the learning to matches, but I believe its worth it.

I noticed an interesting thing,watching my matches:
There were matches where I didn't play singles stroke smash, and others I played from 3 to 5 more.

Well, how to learn repetition without practing this stroke?!.

You have to practice them in training, because I happen to miss more than once, because I don't get used to this shot when it is often rarely played

 

[LOBALOT]

Mine is seasonal. This winter I am 4-1 practices to matches. During the Spring/Summer when I am outdoors all are matches with no practices. I bet quite a few in the northern parts find this as secreting courts for matches can be difficult. Jumping into a practice. can be easier.

 

[LuckyR]

The earlier you are in the process of learning tennis, the more you have to gain from drills specifically and practice in general. Matchplay does improve tennis but at the lower levels, honed strokes will almost always beat match toughness (in the absence of honed strokes).

 

[user92626]

honed strokes will almost always beat match toughness (in the absence of honed strokes).

Really?
I would think honed strokes tend to break down when the going gets tough. Match toughness tends to carry you, allow you to perform most things the way you want. Even crappy things tend to be better than broken things.

At pro level, no one reaches finals without really good, honed in strokes but it usually takes a few tries to beat an experienced player who has won that final before. How many first timers got beaten by Djokovic, Nadal? Took Murray several finals to win the cups.

 

[Happi]

The earlier you are in the process of learning tennis, the more you have to gain from drills specifically and practice in general.

I would state that the better you are in tennis the more practice it takes to improve, hence you need to practice even more as a higher level player to raise your level.

 

[Fintft]

My ratio is about 5:1 practice:matches it takes a lot of practice to be able to convert the learning to matches, but I believe its worth it.

More reasons for the above:

a) Hard to find partners for competitive matches (especially after a break, when you have fallen off the ladder, your rating so to speak, having gone down), whereas higher level players might practice with you. If not basically anyone is good as practice (not to mention lessons)
b) You may want to avoid injuries. For example, I did cut down indoor matches on hc almost completely up to about 5 years ago, when I switched to clay where innertia doesn't cause as much stress on my joints, as one can't really stop abruptly and change directions.
c) Flexibility (and Strength, at least for the core) training is also kinda of required and reccomended by my physicians etc.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

The earlier you are in the process of learning tennis, the more you have to gain from drills specifically and practice in general. Matchplay does improve tennis but at the lower levels, honed strokes will almost always beat match toughness (in the absence of honed strokes).

"I'll take 'Mental Toughness" for $400, Alex."

 

[LuckyR]

I would state that the better you are in tennis the more practice it takes to improve, hence you need to practice even more as a higher level player to raise your level.

I agree with your comment as stated. IOWs I don't find our two statements to be incompatible, since they address two different facets of the same general subject.

 

[LuckyR]

"I'll take 'Mental Toughness" for $400, Alex."

I would also... because I have honed strokes. My post was for those without honed strokes.

 

[LuckyR]

Really?
I would think honed strokes tend to break down when the going gets tough. Match toughness tends to carry you, allow you to perform most things the way you want. Even crappy things tend to be better than broken things.

At pro level, no one reaches finals without really good, honed in strokes but it usually takes a few tries to beat an experienced player who has won that final before. How many first timers got beaten by Djokovic, Nadal? Took Murray several finals to win the cups.

First of all, I was addressing those early in the process of learning tennis, or the opposite of Pros. Not addressing that.

In my experience, if you can't consistantly hit the ball where you want it to go, keeping your cool in the face of errors won't lower your UE rate (though it will prevent you from raising it to astronomical levels). Whereas if you can make fewer errors than your opponent (due to high consistancy) you will be under less match pressure than your competition, so it is easier to keep your cool when you're ahead in the score.

 

[Happi]

I agree with your comment as stated. IOWs I don't find our two statements to be incompatible, since they address two different facets of the same general subject.

I am one of few players that have been coached from day one when I started to play tennis, and still work with a coach every week. I started late in tennis but was a elite athlete in another sport, so I have experienced how much coaching is worth even at the highest level.

I will make a blank statement that it takes as much effort for a player to get from 4.5 to 5.0 as it took to the player to get from 2.5 to 4.5. The better you get the slower the rate of improvement is, and the longe´r it takes, and thus the more important good coaching becomes. Here I am takling about technical improvement.

I rarely see high level players without a coach (or they have been coached a lot as junior players), I rarely see pro players without a coach or even a team behind them. I do however see most rec players without a coach, trying to improve by them self (or look at youtube videos). So I agree that rec players have a lot to gain if they are willing to work with a coach, and willing to unlearn old habbits.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I would also... because I have honed strokes. My post was for those without honed strokes.

I'd still vote for "mental toughness": IMO, mental toughness + unhoned strokes > mental weakness + honed strokes

 

[Smecz]

I'd still vote for "mental toughness": IMO, mental toughness + unhoned strokes > mental weakness + honed strokes

Actually that's right, technique isn't that important if you're winning matches.
I've watched people hurt tennis but they were winning.

Mental stamina and physical condition are often the most important things on the court, what if we lose a match after wonderful plays.

But even breaking through to the other side is also a form of training, but maybe without training you can play amateur tennis, but it's unlikely that you can do it in professional tennis.

However, even amateurs should also play with the train or play balls from the basket,
Serve training or dry top spin is a great thing.

I've seen it for many years, how amateurs skip training to develop, prefer sparring, matches, tournaments.

We often focus on winning the match, but when we want to play a tactical shortcut or win a certain match,
we lose a point because we rarely practice these moves in training.

At least once a week for an hour or 1.5, that would be a lot.(because there is repetition)

At first,there would be no difference,but some time,it would be give big results.

Backhand on the line or forehand inside out trained dry, can translate into many points in the match.(for example)

Only training often seems boring and tedious, after all, the match is adrenaline and the stake.

Well,smart traning will help Us win matches we were losing!!!.

 

[LuckyR]

I'd still vote for "mental toughness": IMO, mental toughness + unhoned strokes > mental weakness + honed strokes

I appreciate that experiences differ, but in my experience "mental toughness" or "match toughness" equates to: not playing worse when you are falling behind. That is, it helps in come from behind wins. My point is a high consistancy player against a lower consistency player at the lower levels is not going to have to worry about coming from behind.

If you don't believe me, look at all of the gnashing of teeth on the subject of "pushers" in this very Forum.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I appreciate that experiences differ, but in my experience "mental toughness" or "match toughness" equates to: not playing worse when you are falling behind. That is, it helps in come from behind wins. My point is a high consistancy player against a lower consistency player at the lower levels is not going to have to worry about coming from behind.

If you don't believe me, look at all of the gnashing of teeth on the subject of "pushers" in this very Forum.

We might be discussing different sides of the same coin: pushers are criticized for having ugly strokes [ie "unhoned"] but the darn ball keeps coming back. IME, I've seen plenty of players with more honed strokes lose to the unhoned opponent and the reason is because the former made a lot more errors than winners. Part of this is due to the mental toughness of the latter. How much is up for debate but I think it's more than the average player thinks.

 

[socallefty]

I will make a blank statement that it takes as much effort for a player to get from 4.5 to 5.0 as it took to the player to get from 2.5 to 4.5.

It would depend on what your potential ceiling is. If your own ceiling is about 5.0, it might be true. If another player’s potential ceiling is about 6.0 or 7.0, I’m sure they will blow through the transition from 4.5 to 5.0 quickly on their way to the top. Of course, there are less number of players with potential ceilings at the top of the pyramid.

I am guessing that if someone‘s potential ceiling is at 4.0, they will find the transition from 3.5 to 4.0 equally tough. The potential ceiling depends on a lot on physical attributes like athletic ability, hand-eye coordination, visuo-spatial skills which are somewhat innate going beyond traits like fitness, strength that can be improved in the gym.

I am like you and played a lot as a kid under coaching and I might have been around a 5.0 level at my peak in my early twenties - was not in the US and can’t tell for sure. I didn’t play tennis too often competitively at the junior level as tennis was my third sport. Thirty years later, I play/practice a lot, take weekly lessons and yet the chasm from 4.5 to 5.0 seems too hard to bridge as it would require me to put effort in the gym to improve my physical shape that I’m not motivated enough to do. I need more power in some of my shots and quicker movement to get to the next level and a lot of it starts with lower body and upper body strength that are beyond what I have now - need knees to be in better shape too. I wonder how many 5.0s are there in the 55+ age group and I bet they are gym rats who work out a lot.

 

[Happi]

It would depend on what your potential ceiling is. If your own ceiling is about 5.0, it might be true. If another player’s potential ceiling is about 6.0 or 7.0, I’m sure they will blow through the transition from 4.5 to 5.0 quickly on their way to the top. Of course, there are less number of players with potential ceilings at the top of the pyramid.

I am guessing that if someone‘s potential ceiling is at 4.0, they will find the transition from 3.5 to 4.0 equally tough. The potential ceiling depends on a lot on physical attributes like athletic ability, hand-eye coordination, visuo-spatial skills which are somewhat innate going beyond traits like fitness, strength that can be improved in the gym.

I am like you and played a lot as a kid under coaching and I might have been around a 5.0 level at my peak in my early twenties - was not in the US and can’t tell for sure. I didn’t play tennis too often competitively at the junior level as tennis was my third sport. Thirty years later, I play/practice a lot, take weekly lessons and yet the chasm from 4.5 to 5.0 seems too hard to bridge as it would require me to put effort in the gym to improve my physical shape that I’m not motivated enough to do. I need more power in some of my shots and quicker movement to get to the next level and a lot of it starts with lower body and upper body strength that are beyond what I have now - need knees to be in better shape too. I wonder how many 5.0s are there in the 55+ age group and I bet they are gym rats who work out a lot.

Great post and I fully agree. I guess I am close to my potential, so just a few % of improvement is very hard work.

I am not too fond of the gym, but at my age there is no way around that. Fitness and movement is where I can really improve a lot, and here I am still very far from my ceiling.

 

[LuckyR]

We might be discussing different sides of the same coin: pushers are criticized for having ugly strokes [ie "unhoned"] but the darn ball keeps coming back. IME, I've seen plenty of players with more honed strokes lose to the unhoned opponent and the reason is because the former made a lot more errors than winners. Part of this is due to the mental toughness of the latter. How much is up for debate but I think it's more than the average player thinks.

Got it.

When I say "honed", I mean "grooved" or well practiced such that the player can hit it consistently over the net and it lands where the player wants it to (ie. high consistency). Pushers (I'm not using the term as a pejorative as folks commonly do here) can do that.

 

[fuzz nation]

I mostly play matches, very little practice.

And it's practice that makes perfect

There are many different answers depending on the individual players - where their levels are currently, how much they want to develop, and what they're looking to do out there on the courts. Some folks just want to play matches and enjoy that. Others have entirely different goals. Yaddah-yaddah...

One specific thought that's hopefully relevant:

Useful practice isn't just about hitting hundreds of balls with a hitting pal or from a ball machine. We can get out on the grinder and familiarize ourselves with certain shots by hitting lots of them, but not many players also practice match management. I'm talking about where we learn to put a specific blueprint to work against a certain opponent while playing points in a tiebreak, a practice set, etc. This skill can be developed and honed if it's not something you do now.

I've coached high school teams for a lot of years and the most significant improvements among the stronger players I've seen have come when they learn to think about using their best tools against their opponents' weaknesses - not just hammering away and hoping for the best.

Practice your shots and improve your movement, but if you need to play smarter and be generally more sharp more often, try to also practice mentally checking on your plan from point to point. This mental ritual can help with learning to routinely use smarter shots in different settings, since you've already decided what to do before a point even starts. Don't get overly involved in analysis (unless you want to), but practice deciding what to do right now for this next point and get used to doing it again and again.

More general thought (hopefully also relevant):

The good thing about spending time on the practice court in one way or another is that you can maybe have more fun and get a better workout (YAY!!) than when you're playing a match. You can chase more balls without as much down time between match points and you can change gears from doing this to doing that or the other. Always nice to find a competent and willing practice partner to help out with this endeavor.

 

[Smecz]

There are many different answers depending on the individual players - where their levels are currently, how much they want to develop, and what they're looking to do out there on the courts. Some folks just want to play matches and enjoy that. Others have entirely different goals. Yaddah-yaddah...

One specific thought that's hopefully relevant:

Useful practice isn't just about hitting hundreds of balls with a hitting pal or from a ball machine. We can get out on the grinder and familiarize ourselves with certain shots by hitting lots of them, but not many players also practice match management. I'm talking about where we learn to put a specific blueprint to work against a certain opponent while playing points in a tiebreak, a practice set, etc. This skill can be developed and honed if it's not something you do now.

I've coached high school teams for a lot of years and the most significant improvements among the stronger players I've seen have come when they learn to think about using their best tools against their opponents' weaknesses - not just hammering away and hoping for the best.

Practice your shots and improve your movement, but if you need to play smarter and be generally more sharp more often, try to also practice mentally checking on your plan from point to point. This mental ritual can help with learning to routinely use smarter shots in different settings, since you've already decided what to do before a point even starts. Don't get overly involved in analysis (unless you want to), but practice deciding what to do right now for this next point and get used to doing it again and again.

More general thought (hopefully also relevant):

The good thing about spending time on the practice court in one way or another is that you can maybe have more fun and get a better workout (YAY!!) than when you're playing a match. You can chase more balls without as much down time between match points and you can change gears from doing this to doing that or the other. Always nice to find a competent and willing practice partner to help out with this endeavor.

Post like this helps a lot,everyone sees it from a different perspective.

I will add myself that:
in training you can learn: attack short balls, hit smashes, volleys, etc.

We tennis players often disregard training, and it can help us a lot, it's good to mix trainings so that they are not boring.

Learning a new stroke or strengthening your strong strokes, after all, is the easiest thing to do in training.

You can also say that, for example, he has a very good forehand in training, but in the game he burns out and doesn't work out.

And it can be dealt with it, after all, practice makes perfect.

I know from myself that an amateur can play sparring and matches all his life, and skip training,
now, however, I see how important training is to the development of your tennis

 

[fuzz nation]

Post like this helps a lot,everyone sees it from a different perspective.

I will add myself that:
in training you can learn: attack short balls, hit smashes, volleys, etc.

We tennis players often disregard training, and it can help us a lot, it's good to mix trainings so that they are not boring.

Learning a new stroke or strengthening your strong strokes, after all, is the easiest thing to do in training.

You can also say that, for example, he has a very good forehand in training, but in the game he burns out and doesn't work out.

And it can be dealt with it, after all, practice makes perfect.

I know from myself that an amateur can play sparring and matches all his life, and skip training,
now, however, I see how important training is to the development of your tennis

Thanks.

Remember that when you're on the practice court, your mental focus can be directed more toward yourself. You may work at a certain shot for a bit until you have it rather dialed in, but it might take much more time and work to really ingrain that shot so that you can execute it without thinking so much about it.

That's where switching to match play can get discouraging - you were fine on the practice court yesterday, but now you're in a match and it just isn't there. That's because our focus is more directed across the net in terms of where our opponents are and what sort of shots they're hitting our way. It generally takes more time on the practice court than we think to really hone certain shots and learn them to where they're more automatic on game day. As long as you have some understanding of this, you'll probably be more immune to frustration as you build your skills.

And I very much agree - it's our own fault if practice time becomes drudgery. Practice with a simple plan, keep it fresh, and always use your game-day habits. That means always taking that extra shuffle step, hitting every ball on one bounce, etc. Then it's all more automatic when we're playing points