Slow down on Carlos

[Steve500]

Womens , Seles/Tracey Austin/Capriati

Mens, Becker/Chang/Wilander/Safin/Hewitt.
Even Tommy Haas Phillipousous were destined for greatness.

He’s already in the best 25 players in open era if he was to retire to tomorrow.

But slow down some of you.
Agassi had World ranking in top 5 by aged 18, he didn’t win ten slams...

I can’t believe Mats Wilander said yesterday he’s overtaken McEnroe and Lendl, based on winning French Wimby double .

Carlos is at Jim Courier level status if he was to retire tommorow…
And greatness isn’t just about Slams, it’s about ATP tour final and Davis Cup records. And Indian Wells. .

 

[MeatTornado]

But slow down some of you. Agassi was top 5 by aged 18, he didn’t win ten slams.

Carlos is already halfway to Agassi's total, at an age when Andre himself still had zero.

 

[Lleytonstation]

Those waiting for Carlos the Shepherd to reach big 3 level...

 

[Ray Mercer]

Alcaraz is on a tremendous pace but one serious injury could derail him. Djokovic and Federer were very lucky from an injury standpoint. Nadal lasted way longer than expected given his early playing style. It wouldn’t be surprising to see Alcaraz have some injuries given how much he chases balls.

 

[Tano]

As the years go by, Alcaraz's numbers and records will get bigger and bigger and his detractors smaller and smaller.

 

[Mark-Touch]

Alcaraz is on a tremendous pace but one serious injury could derail him. Djokovic and Federer were very lucky from an injury standpoint. Nadal lasted way longer than expected given his early playing style. It wouldn’t be surprising to see Alcaraz have some injuries given how much he chases balls.

Alcaraz should not be having any injuries now, period.
Nothing can derail a tennis career quicker than a serious injury.
His injuries now are not a good omen.

 

[Rosstour]

If he has B3-like longevity, he'll have B3-like numbers.

If Sinner wants to "catch" him, he needs to do it soon. He's a year older and as we have seen with Djokodal that actually matters at the end.

Rafa won 2 Slams in 2022 and is probably done now, 2 years later

djoko won 3 Slams last year and 0 this year.

Sinner isn't gonna catch Carlos the back end, he has to do it now or he will be the Agassi to Charles's Sampras

 

[Fabresque]

Please just close these threads down @Mods. They’re absolutely ridiculous and filled with total BS.

 

[jimmy8]

How do you slow down on the fastest player?!

 

[-NN-]

It's the Indian Wells title count that determines true greatness.

 

[Mark-Touch]

If he has B3-like longevity, he'll have B3-like numbers.

If Sinner wants to "catch" him, he needs to do it soon. He's a year older and as we have seen with Djokodal that actually matters at the end.

Rafa won 2 Slams in 2022 and is probably done now, 2 years later

djoko won 3 Slams last year and 0 this year.

Sinner isn't gonna catch Carlos the back end, he has to do it now or he will be the Agassi to Charles's Sampras

You are feeding the trolls.
You and probably most people here assume that the B3 were NOT an anomaly.
That every every single up and coming star will fill their shoes and surpass them!

 

[Steve500]

Please just close these threads down @Mods. They’re absolutely ridiculous and filled with total BS.

No they are not. How are they . Go away if you don’t like it , you are annoying others . You’re very biased to Carlos.

 

[Rosstour]

You are feeding the trolls.
You and probably most people here assume that the B3 were NOT an anomaly.
That every every single up and coming star will fill their shoes and surpass them!

What's anomalous about them is that they all played at the same time. I think their longevity is an anomaly now, but in the future we may just look at it as the new standard.

Carlos certainly looks as strong or stronger than they were at his age. Guy is 3/4 of the way to a CGS and could easily end being the youngest in the OE to do it. Has as many Slams as Nadal did at same age, but he's earlier to win his first HC Slam. And now Nadal isn't in the way at RG any longer which dramatically reduced the available trophies for Fedovic

Carlos could have 3-5 of each major trophy by the time he turns 30 if he keeps piling them up

 

[Mark-Touch]

What's anomalous about them is that they all played at the same time. I think their longevity is an anomaly now, but in the future we may just look at it as the new standard.

Carlos certainly looks as strong or stronger than they were at his age. Guy is 3/4 of the way to a CGS and could easily end being the youngest in the OE to do it. Has as many Slams as Nadal did at same age, but he's earlier to win his first HC Slam. And now Nadal isn't in the way at RG any longer which dramatically reduced the available trophies for Fedovic

Carlos could have 3-5 of each major trophy by the time he turns 30 if he keeps piling them up

No, their playing at the same time is not the only anomaly.
Their 20+ slams are the biggie.

I just roll my eyes each and every time a Tom, Dick or Harry starts a new thread predicting how many slams player X or Y will win.
Why not let life take its course and let the chips fall where they may?

The problem here is that talk is SO cheap on TTW.

 

[Lleytonstation]

No, their playing at the same time is not the only anomaly.
Their 20+ slams are the biggie.

I just roll my eyes each and every time a Tom, Dick or Harry starts a new thread predicting how many slams player X or Y will win.
Why not let life take its course and let the chips fall where they may?

The problem here is that talk is SO cheap on TTW.

 

[Fabresque]

No they are not. How are they . Go away if you don’t like it , you are annoying others . You’re very biased to Carlos.

He just turned 21 and has won 4 grand slams, going 4/4 in finals.

Any, and I mean ANY, criticism of him is completely ridiculous and asinine.

 

[Lleytonstation]

He just turned 21 and has won 4 grand slams, going 4/4 in finals.

Any, and I mean ANY, criticism of him is completely ridiculous and asinine.

Not at all if people are calling him a future farm animal, greatest grass player, highest level ever, and already big3 and will win 25 plus slams.

Criticism usually follows outrageous comments.

 

[Federev]

As the years go by, Alcaraz's numbers and records will get bigger and bigger and his detractors smaller and smaller.

True.

But he’ll still never reach six feet without these:

.

 

[Federev]

It's the Indian Wells title count that determines true greatness.

Halle and Basel and Dubai

DUH

 

[FeroBango]

Thank God IW Carlos is the best Carlos.

But yes we have a true great in Carlos in our midst. Whether he has the longevity to reach Big-3, let's see. He's explicit about that being his goal and that he won't consider himself a champion until then.

He's 21 and his prime has just begun with the FO imo. Inshallah may he reach some of the greatest peaks known to man.

 

[Rosstour]

No, their playing at the same time is not the only anomaly.
Their 20+ slams are the biggie.

I just roll my eyes each and every time a Tom, Dick or Harry starts a new thread predicting how many slams player X or Y will win.
Why not let life take its course and let the chips fall where they may?

The problem here is that talk is SO cheap on TTW.

20+ Slams are huge yes. However Fedalovic were the first generation of players who took the AO as seriously as they took all the others. Even Sampras cared a lot less about it than the US/W and sometimes didn't even show up there. So any aspiring ATG is gonna have to do what they did; that's a new standard they established.

The blueprint now is to achieve the stamina to outgrind anyone, but also play creatively and take care of the body to perform at a barely dininished level into one's 30s.

Right now there isn't a player on the tour who can reliably stop Carlos and he clearly is showing the "extra gear" that all the greats have in common.

IF he can stay healthy and keep his level high, he could absolutely clean up numbers wise.

 

[FeroBango]

If he has B3-like longevity, he'll have B3-like numbers.

If Sinner wants to "catch" him, he needs to do it soon. He's a year older and as we have seen with Djokodal that actually matters at the end.

Rafa won 2 Slams in 2022 and is probably done now, 2 years later

djoko won 3 Slams last year and 0 this year.

Sinner isn't gonna catch Carlos the back end, he has to do it now or he will be the Agassi to Charles's Sampras

He is in fact 2 years older than Carlos nearly. Yet to mature tho. Wait til he hits the age of 28!

 

[Steve500]

He just turned 21 and has won 4 grand slams, going 4/4 in finals.

Any, and I mean ANY, criticism of him is completely ridiculous and asinine.

I’m not criticising him. I’m pointing out to Slow down on the hype as lots can change. You are a huge fan of his clearly

 

[FeroBango]

20+ Slams are huge yes. However Fedalovic were the first generation of players who took the AO as seriously as they took all the others. Even Sampras cared a lot less about it than the US/W and sometimes didn't even show up there. So any aspiring ATG is gonna have to do what they did; that's a new standard they established.

The blueprint now is to achieve the stamina to outgrind anyone, but also play creatively and take care of the body to perform at a barely dininished level into one's 30s.

Right now there isn't a player on the tour who can reliably stop Carlos and he clearly is showing the "extra gear" that all the greats have in common.

IF he can stay healthy and keep his level high, he could absolutely clean up numbers wise.

Reasonable comment. Outrageous to many here though.

 

[FeroBango]

I’m not criticising him. I’m pointing out to Slow down on the hype as lots can change. You are a huge fan of his clearly

Look unless the fans of his are running your favorites down, there's nothing wrong with speculating.

I won't indulge in specific predictions but it is not the sin you make it out to be to predict what this exciting ATG-in-the-making could achieve.

If match reports are all you want, feel free to peruse one of these tennis websites for that. Here we comment on matches that have happened and will likely never happen just the same to pass time in between work.

No one knows what the future holds but the sky indeed is the limit to Carlos should everything fall in place. Will it happen? Again, no one knows.

Relax a little. You seem to not be a fan of his and while that's okay, let people have some fun man.

 

[Lleytonstation]

Look unless the fans of his are running your favorites down, there's nothing wrong with speculating.

I won't indulge in specific predictions but it is not the sin you make it out to be to predict what this exciting ATG-in-the-making could achieve.

If match reports are all you want, feel free to peruse one of these tennis websites for that. Here we comment on matches that have happened and will likely never happen just the same to pass time in between work.

No one knows what the future holds but the sky indeed is the limit to Carlos should everything fall in place. Will it happen? Again, no one knows.

Relax a little. You seem to not be a fan of his and while that's okay, let people have some fun man.

Completely fair take.

However, it goes both ways, as it is not absurd to think it will not happen and to remind people how insane the big3 were and how far Carlos the Shepherd must go to achieve that.

But let me remind you, some are not making predictions, but stating opinions such as "greatest grass player ever, highest peak ever, better than all big3" which means the other side has every right to disagree.

 

[Red Rick]

Carlos is already halfway to Agassi's total, at an age when Andre himself still had zero.

Half the Slams Agassi won were Schuetler opens after his own cohort died off

 

[FeroBango]

Completely fair take.

However, it goes both ways, as it is not absurd to think it will not happen and to remind people how insane the big3 were and how far Carlos the Shepherd must go to achieve that.

But let me remind you, some are not making predictions, but stating opinions such as "greatest grass player ever, highest peak ever, better than all big3" which means the other side has every right to disagree.

Highest peak is subjective. Carlos imo has always had the potential for the greatest peak even before he was not a top-30 talent.

Fwiw he is not (yet) a peak Roger but to my eyes, the only talent who can hold a candle to the genius of the best of Roger.

Does this mean he's greater than the Big 3? Of course not. Not yet anyway. But he should get there.

Speaking of subjectivity, Novak fans do argue that with peak elo, Novak had the highest peak ever which also is inherently fair. To me it was Roger though because well, eyes, at least my eyes never lie (they do).

Carlos already displays tennis that make me go 'wtf how is that possible, who even teaches these things to him' the way Roggie did. He has the capability to achieve the greatest peak Tennis has seen in a few years and that's my prediction based on the eye-test that's also backed by near-unprecedented results.

Fingers crossed that he fulfils the potential and continues his all-court wizardry.

dkings are there across all fanbase. Best to take their takes with a pinch of salt.

 

[Steve500]

Look unless the fans of his are running your favorites down, there's nothing wrong with speculating.

I won't indulge in specific predictions but it is not the sin you make it out to be to predict what this exciting ATG-in-the-making could achieve.

If match reports are all you want, feel free to peruse one of these tennis websites for that. Here we comment on matches that have happened and will likely never happen just the same to pass time in between work.

No one knows what the future holds but the sky indeed is the limit to Carlos should everything fall in place. Will it happen? Again, no one knows.

Relax a little. You seem to not be a fan of his and while that's okay, let people have some fun man.

It’s his fans who are not having fun, not me. They are so defensive of any criticism. Bit like some Fed fans, so defensive .

 

[GimmeBackMyDog]

McEnroe is my favorite all time player.

But Carlos will pass Agassi, McEnroe, Borg and Lendl.

The only foreseeable thing stopping him would be a rash of injuries.

Alcaraz is just kind of great at everything and can adopt different styles of play according to the situation and opponent.

I became a believer after his match with Sinner at Indian Wells.

 

[Hitman]

He has a rocket pack strapped to his back. The guy is now looking to topple a young Borg, which is the crazy bench mark for young talents.

 

[ibbi]

Here is what I would say. In the Open era we have previously had two guys win 4 majors at this age, Borg and Wilander, and they were both finished by their mid-20s.

I know we are in a new age when the old rules more and more fail to apply, but yes, people getting ahead of themselves are foolish.

Enjoy the ride, stop looking for the finish line.

 

[weakera]

His health is less important than his competition. Even with his health issues Nadal clears 30 slams easily if there were no Djokovic around. And Djokovic clears 30 easily if there were no Nadal. Of course someone will try making the argument that Nadal and Djokovic pushed each other, but Alcaraz doesn't need a real-time rival to push him. He has all of Djokovic's records to chase and they will be standing still, not moving targets.

If Alcaraz enjoys a several year run without another ATG rivalling him, he might make what Federer did from 04-07 look puny. I see no reason why he can't enjoy a 5-year run winning something like 3, 2, 2, 3, 2 slams to bring himself to 15+ slams by the time he is age 26-27. And then he will have another 10 years on tour to make a mockery of the record books.

Now, things can change quickly. But that is what things look like right now.

 

[Deleted member 810491]

Alcaraz is the most underrated 4-time Slam Champion of ALL-TIME.
Sinner gets hype for being a one-slam-wonder who is 0-2 vs. Alcaraz this year.
Djokovic gets hype for his past achievements.
Alcaraz is carrying tennis and is the greatest 21-year-old athlete of ALL-TIME.

 

[zagor]

If he has B3-like longevity, he'll have B3-like numbers.

If Sinner wants to "catch" him, he needs to do it soon. He's a year older and as we have seen with Djokodal that actually matters at the end.

Rafa won 2 Slams in 2022 and is probably done now, 2 years later

djoko won 3 Slams last year and 0 this year.

Sinner isn't gonna catch Carlos the back end, he has to do it now or he will be the Agassi to Charles's Sampras

2 years older actually, he better toughen up physically soon or he'll be left in the dust.

 

[zagor]

Those waiting for Carlos the Shepherd to reach big 3 level...

Doesn't seem to me like he needs to reach Big 3 level of play to win slams in his era, especially with Novak waning. If he stays healthy (big if admittedly) he seems poised to rack them up.

He won Wimbledon while getting broken like 20 times, I've never seen that in my life (I'm not a stats guy though).

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

Womens , Seles/Tracey Austin/Capriati

Mens, Becker/Chang/Wilander/Safin/Hewitt.
Even Tommy Haas Phillipousous were destined for greatness.

He’s already in the best 25 players in open era if he was to retire to tomorrow.

But slow down some of you.
Agassi had World ranking in top 5 by aged 18, he didn’t win ten slams...

I can’t believe Mats Wilander said yesterday he’s overtaken McEnroe and Lendl, based on winning French Wimby double .

Carlos is at Jim Courier level status if he was to retire tommorow…
And greatness isn’t just about Slams, it’s about ATP tour final and Davis Cup records. And Indian Wells. .

Let's not forget that he spent first 5 months of the year with various injury problems.

I've said it time and time again, he uses way too lighter of a racquet for his violent swings and strikes; that elbow will inevitably flare up yet again in the future if he continues to do so. If you muscle or arm the ball like Rafa did, you need a heavier stick, its a simple logic.

 

[FeroBango]

McEnroe is my favorite all time player.

But Carlos will pass Agassi, McEnroe, Borg and Lendl.

The only foreseeable thing stopping him would be a rash of injuries.

Alcaraz is just kind of great at everything and can adopt different styles of play according to the situation and opponent.

I became a believer after his match with Sinner at Indian Wells.

There are two kinds of people: those who believe in Carlos and those who are yet to.

 

[darthrafa]

Carlos is already halfway to Agassi's total, at an age when Andre himself still had zero.

these comparison is unfair
the era, technology and training are totally different

the biggest difference lays on agassi had to play against much better than those nowadays

except djoker, sinner and med, who else are legitimate contenders at slams?

even z is rubbish when he enters final stages

 

[Steve500]

His health is less important than his competition. Even with his health issues Nadal clears 30 slams easily if there were no Djokovic around. And Djokovic clears 30 easily if there were no Nadal. Of course someone will try making the argument that Nadal and Djokovic pushed each other, but Alcaraz doesn't need a real-time rival to push him. He has all of Djokovic's records to chase and they will be standing still, not moving targets.

If Alcaraz enjoys a several year run without another ATG rivalling him, he might make what Federer did from 04-07 look puny. I see no reason why he can't enjoy a 5-year run winning something like 3, 2, 2, 3, 2 slams to bring himself to 15+ slams by the time he is age 26-27. And then he will have another 10 years on tour to make a mockery of the record books.

Now, things can change quickly. But that is what things look like right now.

Rivals and new players have always popped up .

 

[aldeayeah]

As the years go by, Alcaraz's numbers and records will get bigger and bigger and his detractors smaller and smaller.

Tiny @Lleytonstation?

 

[aldeayeah]

He won Wimbledon while getting broken like 20 times, I've never seen that in my life (I'm not a stats guy though).

He played as good as his opponents forced him to, tbf. His serve game in the final was good.

Paul, Med have some of the best return games on tour, too.

 

[SonnyT]

When was the last time a career as promising as Carlos been derailed? You've to go back to Tony Roche! And that case wouldn't have happened today.

 

[tennis_pro]

If he has B3-like longevity, he'll have B3-like numbers.

If Sinner wants to "catch" him, he needs to do it soon. He's a year older and as we have seen with Djokodal that actually matters at the end.

Rafa won 2 Slams in 2022 and is probably done now, 2 years later

djoko won 3 Slams last year and 0 this year.

Sinner isn't gonna catch Carlos the back end, he has to do it now or he will be the Agassi to Charles's Sampras

Sinner is almost 23 and in his prime, Alcaraz is 21 and probably still not in his prime and it's already 4-1 in the Slams for Alcaraz.

1-2 years from now Sinner will have issues winning matches vs Alcaraz if Alcaraz is already taking over at this stage.

 

[buscemi]

Womens , Seles/Tracey Austin/Capriati

Mens, Becker/Chang/Wilander/Safin/Hewitt.
Even Tommy Haas Phillipousous were destined for greatness.

He’s already in the best 25 players in open era if he was to retire to tomorrow.

But slow down some of you.
Agassi had World ranking in top 5 by aged 18, he didn’t win ten slams...

I can’t believe Mats Wilander said yesterday he’s overtaken McEnroe and Lendl, based on winning French Wimby double .

Carlos is at Jim Courier level status if he was to retire tommorow…
And greatness isn’t just about Slams, it’s about ATP tour final and Davis Cup records. And Indian Wells. .

-Seles was looking incredible before being stabbed.
-Alcaraz has won twice Austin's career Major haul.
-Capriati didn't win a Major before age 24.
-Alcaraz has won four times Chang's career Major haul.
-Alcaraz has won twice Safin's career Major haul.
-Alcaraz has won twice Hewitt's career Major haul.
-Haas and Philippoussis nevet won a Major

I don't see any of these players as comps other than Seles, and I think she was destined for double digit Majors before the stabbing.

That leaves Becker and Wilander. Wilander relied so much on his mind and mentally checked out after reaching the top of the game and wondering whether that's all there is. Alcaraz is clearly wired different than that.

As for Becker, he had a lot of off-the-court issues, with one of the big ones being an issue with insomnia that caused him to self-medicate.

So, I don't see any of these as significant comps. In terms of worst case scenario, the best comps are probably Austin and Hewiit, who showed similar but lesser promise at a young age, but saw injuries derail their careers. Alcaraz has already been a bit injury prone, and I could see injuries possibly dampening his career prospects.

 

[Sport]

If Sinner wants to "catch" him, he needs to do it soon. He's a year older

2* years older. Sinner was born in 2001, Raz in 2003.

 

[MeatTornado]

these comparison is unfair
the era, technology and training are totally different

the biggest difference lays on agassi had to play against much better than those nowadays

except djoker, sinner and med, who else are legitimate contenders at slams?

even z is rubbish when he enters final stages

Agassi was a phenom. He has only himself to blame for losing his first 3 major finals. Especially the French with Courier.

So far the biggest difference is that Carlos hasn't choked any of his opportunities.

 

[Lleytonstation]

Tiny @Lleytonstation?

It is an interesting theory. He is young and short. But as his detractors age they will shrink and he could reach 175cm some day. I mean maybe Schwartzman is a detractor, so it could happen.

 

[Steve500]

-Seles was looking incredible before being stabbed.
-Alcaraz has won twice Austin's career Major haul.
-Capriati didn't win a Major before age 24.
-Alcaraz has won four times Chang's career Major haul.
-Alcaraz has won twice Safin's career Major haul.
-Alcaraz has won twice Hewitt's career Major haul.
-Haas and Philippoussis nevet won a Major

I don't see any of these players as comps other than Seles, and I think she was destined for double digit Majors before the stabbing.

That leaves Becker and Wilander. Wilander relied so much on his mind and mentally checked out after reaching the top of the game and wondering whether that's all there is. Alcaraz is clearly wired different than that.

As for Becker, he had a lot of off-the-court issues, with one of the big ones being an issue with insomnia that caused him to self-medicate.

So, I don't see any of these as significant comps. In terms of worst case scenario, the best comps are probably Austin and Hewiit, who showed similar but lesser promise at a young age, but saw injuries derail their careers. Alcaraz has already been a bit injury prone, and I could see injuries possibly dampening his career prospects.

Capriati was on the tour aged 14.

-Seles was looking incredible before being stabbed.
-Alcaraz has won twice Austin's career Major haul.
-Capriati didn't win a Major before age 24.
-Alcaraz has won four times Chang's career Major haul.
-Alcaraz has won twice Safin's career Major haul.
-Alcaraz has won twice Hewitt's career Major haul.
-Haas and Philippoussis nevet won a Major

I don't see any of these players as comps other than Seles, and I think she was destined for double digit Majors before the stabbing.

That leaves Becker and Wilander. Wilander relied so much on his mind and mentally checked out after reaching the top of the game and wondering whether that's all there is. Alcaraz is clearly wired different than that.

As for Becker, he had a lot of off-the-court issues, with one of the big ones being an issue with insomnia that caused him to self-medicate.

So, I don't see any of these as significant comps. In terms of worst case scenario, the best comps are probably Austin and Hewiit, who showed similar but lesser promise at a young age, but saw injuries derail their careers. Alcaraz has already been a bit injury prone, and I could see injuries possibly dampening his career prospects.

 

[Steve500]

Capriati was on the tour aged 14.

Capriati was on the tour aged 14.
Made Wimbledon semi aged 15. Won Olympic singles gold aged 15. Had burnout issues and crazy dad , then had a horror injury run just as she was getting momentum and winning GS titles and world No 1 rank.

Phillipousous beat prime Sampras at OZ open aged 19, and lots of injuries and crazy dad . Tracy Austin burnout . Sharapova was destined for bigger things too at one point .
So was Hingis in singles . Tennis rules change as does court surfaces and racquet technology , which impact some players more than others . Wimbledon courts slowed which made Fed less dominant . How do we know Carlos won’t face similar hurdles?