Snauwaert HiTen vs modern Extreme Spin racket

Discussion in 'Racquets' started by joe sch, Nov 30, 2009.

  1. joe sch

    joe sch Legend

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    Im a player that prefers the older, heavier, more flexible graphite rackets. I am always impressed when playing
    with the vintage Snauwaert HiTen rackets regarding the spin capabilities which mostly result due to the sparse
    open string patterns, 12x14 used by the HiTen racket designs.

    I play tested a modern racket called the ES 100 (Extreme Spin) this weekend which had a 14x16 and was very impressed. The spin capability was very impressive, probably on par or better than the HiTens. I was hitting lots more topspin and slice on my groundies and big kicks on my serves. It was very surprising and enjoyable.

    I took a few pictures to show this racket compared to the HiTen.
    Are there other modern rackets made for extreme spinning with open patterns like 14x16 ?

    http://www.woodtennis.com/extreme_spin/snauwaert_hiten_es100a.jpg
    http://www.woodtennis.com/extreme_spin/snauwaert_hiten_es100b.jpg
    http://www.woodtennis.com/extreme_spin/ES_100a.jpg
    http://www.woodtennis.com/extreme_spin/ES_100b.jpg
     
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  2. Kick Serve 14

    Kick Serve 14 Professional

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    that racket looks pretty sweet. ive never seen anything that comes stock with those kind of string patterns, what's the name of the company that makes the red one, extreme spin? or is that just the racket model? how old is that, and which one gives more spin, is it the Snauert? that would be what i would assume...
     
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  3. joe sch

    joe sch Legend

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    The string pattern also uses a "pyramid" type spacing which is patent pending. This racket is special in that low tensions like 50..60 pds actually do not produce the expected trampoline effect. I will not reveal the company on the TW boards but will let you know if you email me.
     
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  4. AndrewD

    AndrewD Legend

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    Joe,

    If that's the case then I'm truly astounded. The Snauwert Hi-Ten 50 was the most outrageously spin-friendly (more like fiendish) racquet I have ever used. I really am struggling to imagine anything coming remotely close to it.

    That said, I did always feel that a key to the Hi-Ten 50's spin potential was the extremely thick gauge strings it forced you to use. What were you using in your Hi-Ten and the other frame?

    As for interest in the racquet, my brother played the Hi-Ten 50 from its inception right up until about 2 years ago when his last one broke. I'm sure he'd be very interested in hearing your impressions of this newer frame. But why no standard length models and why do they need the uncomfortable shape?
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2009
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  5. rosen88

    rosen88 Rookie

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  6. joe sch

    joe sch Legend

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    Andrew,

    Aside from the common open string patterns, these rackets used opposite ends of the string/tension setups.

    The HiTen was orig strings, approx 12g at high tension of probably 75lbs

    The extreme spin was MSV Focus Hex 17L at 55lbs

    Like I mentioned, I was very surprised I had soo much control with spinning ability. I sorta felt like Nadal in that I could whip the racket thru groundies generating tons of spin. I normally try to play more like Federer flattening out blasts. Serving was also very fun as I was able to get tons of kick bringing the bounches over the receivers shoulders height.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2009
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  7. ericsson

    ericsson Hall of Fame

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    Same here, late august i took the Hi-Ten 25 for a spin, i was shocked by the pattern, the spaces were extremely big but i was very surprised what a control that racket had, i couldnt hit the ball long, stayed nice on the strings with bite, the Hi-Ten is a very good racket! very well made.
     
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  8. HitItHarder

    HitItHarder Semi-Pro

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    Looks like an interesting racquet since I have never played with anything close to that open of a string pattern. So how comfortable/arm friendly was this modern spin racket? Looking at the companies website, it looks like all the racquets, including that es100 (I assume that stands for Extreme Spin 100 sq. in.), have a stiffness rating of 70 and it recommends stringing 15L (1.35) full poly at 65 lbs. Sounds pretty harsh to me, but it looks like you were playing it with a different set-up.

    Also, how long did it take break the MSV Hex? That open string pattern has to be brutal on the durability of the string, which is why I am guessing they recommend a 15L string size.
     
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  9. Pet

    Pet Semi-Pro

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    I can´t find anything about this new racquet. Where are information of Vortex racquets?
     
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  10. joe sch

    joe sch Legend

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    Did not hurt my arm at all. Modern rackets with poly setups do hurt my elbow after 1 hour of hitting.

    Did not feel stiff with the strings and pattern. Recommended tension is 50 .. 65, I like the lower end. I have played 6 hours with racket and have not noticed any wear on strings or loss of playability.
     
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  11. joe sch

    joe sch Legend

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    I hope TW can carry these rackets but if you do buy one, please give me a referral joesch@woodtennis.com
     
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  12. Sublime

    Sublime Semi-Pro

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    Does it come with a self feeding string system like a weed-eater? Just bang it on the ground and more string comes out? Otherwise you'd probably need to buy 12 of these to play a match with.

    LOL... I see they only recommend 15 and 15L poly in them :)
     
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  13. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Agreed. Certainly not easy to locate on the web *hint*.

    I took a stab at the name and hit it on the first try!

    http://www.vortextennis.com/website/
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2009
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  14. joe sch

    joe sch Legend

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    Maybe you are just trying to be funny and did not read my prior statement that I play tested a model with a 17L string and have over 5 hours of hard hitting/spinning with no apparent wear on the strings.
     
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  15. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Vortex ES133

    Vortex ES133

    Length: 28.5 inches
    Pattern: 14m x 15c :shock:
    Weight: 9.8 oz (strung with 1.45mm Mega-Spin String)
    Flex: 70 lbs RA

    [​IMG]
     
    #15
  16. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

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    Ban them I say!

    There's nothing more difficult than trying to hit a ball bouncing around your shoulders, and I'm only 5'8", which means with one of these, my opponent will probably kick it over my head!
     
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  17. joe sch

    joe sch Legend

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    Jimbo, You need to blast balls off the rise. Connors was one of of the best ever at this skill. Agassi and Federer are two others great at taking balls off the bounce.
     
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  18. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

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    Indeed, although I'm lacking some of the skill of the above:)

    And I saw Davydenko hitting it really early last week at the O2, absolutely incredible to see this live!
     
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  19. Pet

    Pet Semi-Pro

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    I hope rewiews about this interesant racquet. :-|
     
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  20. joe sch

    joe sch Legend

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    You were fortunate to get to see Davydenko play. Many dont respect his awesome skills ... one of the best movers and cleanest hitters ever ! His ability to hit balls early using his smooth relaxed court movement like Federer.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2009
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  21. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

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    He really was playing amazing tennis!

    Not only hitting the ball early on the rise, but also right out in front of himself, just great to watch!

    And his movement was so quick across the court, and he even came to the net quite a lot and volleyed well, I was really impressed with his play:)

    He has been in the top 6 at the end of year rankings for the last 5 years, but somehow goes under the radar, at 28 years old he should have another few years left yet, will be interesting to see if he can finally do better in one of the 5 set tournaments and get to a Grand Slam Final.
     
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  22. Mr. Tennis

    Mr. Tennis Banned

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    REVIEW: VORTEX 100 & 116.

    age: 38
    style of play: old school serve and volley
    current racquet: Dunlop Mcenroe
    strings: Gut
    USTA level : 5.0

    I loved botH racquets but for my style of play I liked the es 116 better. This was quite shocking as I have never played with a head size larger than 98.I was shocked at how manuverable the 116 was.

    Now to Answer the question on everyones mind.....NO this stick does NOT give you some wild unfair advantage and does not produce superhuman spin that causes the ball to kick over the back fence.

    Having said all that.....the strings do create great control and in the right hands this stick is a serious weapon.

    The danger for thia company is copycats . I don't see how they are going to stop anyone from copying them. Sure the patent office will take your money but if challenged I don't think the patent will hold up. I mean could you stop someone from making a guitar with 3 strings on it?

    I did love the racquet. Touch shots and drop volleys were dead on. Serves were great. I loved the racquet and I am going to switch to it .

    Having said all of that Im not sure it's the right racquet for everyone. For my style of touch amd placement it worked great....but Im not so sure it would work well for the modern game.

    I will have a friend demo a couple of the other models amd we will report back.

    But I loved both sticks and I do believe the descriptions of the 116 and 100 was dead on. The 116 is shockingly for a touch serve and volley game while the 100 is for modern topspin game.

    Tune in later when I test the 108 and the 133
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2009
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  23. Mr. Tennis

    Mr. Tennis Banned

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    Again.....as far as the patent ....I think if they were challenged they would lose . Big deal the pattern is "pyramid shaped". Other racquets at "V" shaped. They simply turned the "V" upside down amd now call it a "Pyramid" shape? How is that unique? I don't think that latent can stand up. I guess it's a matter of opinion but i don't just don't see anything "unique" enuf to patent. But who the hell knows.

    As far as the stick am stringing system....I loved it.
     
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  24. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    And that's the bottom line .

    I don't know the science behind it but the racquet just plays better than any racquet I have ever tried.

    I don't think it's just the stringing system .....it's the weight and how the frame is actually built ....I think the "V" on the frame is different somehow....maybe it's higher up or bigger .....

    Whatever it is .....these sticks just make tennis a lot easier .

    Unfortunately this is a conservative sport and people will not try anything new unless it's Wilson or Babolat or something .

    The funny thing is that this stringing system came out long before Wilson's spin racquets which is now all the rage .

    Wilsons spin racquets are nothing new ....people could have been playing with that many years before Wilson came out with it if they just dared to be different .
     
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  25. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    You were right !!!! Wilson came out with their spin racquets that is now all the rage !

    Having said that they still are not better than the Vortex .

    By the way I am the same style of player as you and I also used the Mcenroe and never used a stick above 100 square inches .

    Then came the Vortex ES 116.....absolutely the greatest serve and volley stick ever made.

    I agree with you ....the racquet is as maneuverable as any smaller head size racquet .

    Nothing is lost by the larger head size ....in fact it just makes everything so much easier .

    It's so great to find another player like myself and one that uses the same racquet !!!!

    And by the way .....great prediction !

    One last note : I've tried almost all of their sticks .....and for my style of play the Es 116 was far and away the best .

    They came out with a pro 116 but it's just a completely different stick judging from the specs.....I will not cheat on my love .....I will not even try it ......perfection cannot be beat .
     
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  26. TinTin 1

    TinTin 1 Professional

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    The pro 116 is a great frame as well. The Donnay Superlite 114 plays similar to the ES 116 but is not hollow and has a bit more flex.
     
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  27. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    I was really interested in that Donnay ....but it has to have less power so I'm not cheating on my baby .

    The pro 116 I'm sure plays great but it's a very different stick than the ES as well .

    Yours may be more similar to the ES because you cut it down .

    I spoke to Tom at length about the two .....and the ES seems right for me .

    Honestly it is the greatest serve and volley stick I have ever played with ......I would not recommend it for a topspin game at all.....that's more for the Es 100.

    I'm interested in the ES 108 but honestly I am just so in love with the ES 116 that I'm not going to try that one either .
     
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  28. TinTin 1

    TinTin 1 Professional

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    The 108 is a great frame , but not as much pop as the 116. I used the 108 for a long time.
     
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  29. v-verb

    v-verb Hall of Fame

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    I wish the Donnay Superlite had a narrower frame. Probably can't be done. I do have 2 versions of Wilson's The Limits but also one or two Pro Staff Super Oversize 125;s - the old PS85 in a 125 version. Heavy, narrow beam, flexy but fun
     
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  30. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    I used the Es 100 for a long time ....just recently It dawned on me it was the wrong stick .

    I always absolutely LOVED the Es 116 on volleys but it was just too powerful for me on my strokes and serve.

    Until I finally realized how to properly play with the ES 116.....this stick was made for a continental grip and touch shots .....the racquet is just so freaking powerful that you just have to let the racquet do all the work for you.

    My serve and volley game went up a level and I swear I feel like Mcenroe on the court .

    I just touch the ball and it seems to go where I want with power .

    Having said all of this if you do not have this style of game then the ES 116 is not for you .....on the other hand if this is your style I don't think there can possibly be a better stick .....it's just perfect .

    I actually tried the 133 which is not bad and also very maneuverable ....but not nearly as maneuverable as the 116.

    It's my holy grail .
     
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  31. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    I'm not sure if the Pro 116 is thinner but why do you feel you need a narrower Frame?

    What style of player are you ?
     
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  32. TinTin 1

    TinTin 1 Professional

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    I am In the design phase to do just that. It will be a tour model.
     
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  33. v-verb

    v-verb Hall of Fame

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    That would be fantastic! Please keep us posted
     
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  34. TinTin 1

    TinTin 1 Professional

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    Will do.
     
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  35. TinTin 1

    TinTin 1 Professional

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    Will do.
     
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  36. v-verb

    v-verb Hall of Fame

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    I hit whippy spin strokes and narrower frames seem to work better with my game
     
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  37. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Are you Tom ????
     
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  38. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    That makes total sense ....a thick frame is clearly not for you and I can see why you would love Donnay as they are the thinnest frames known to man .

    But then why would you want to use a head size as large as 116?
     
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  39. TinTin 1

    TinTin 1 Professional

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    No, not designing for vortex, though he is a friend of mine. Designing for Donnay. :)
     
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  40. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Then you must be Roman Prokes?
     
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  41. v-verb

    v-verb Hall of Fame

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    Just for fun;<) My main frames are Wilson 88" and Head 89.5"

    I do love Donnays (have a Dual Gold 94 and a Red+ 94 - GREAT frames!!)
     
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  42. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Then you must be Roman Prokes?
     
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  43. The Dark Knight

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    Ahhhh .....now it makes sense .

    You should give the Vortex Tour 95 a shot .....it's pretty thin .....maybe not as thin as the Donnay but you will be amazed on the spin .

    you can go up on the head size from your normal stick because the Vortex is so maneuverable and it has much more added spin due to the very wide string pattern
     
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  44. v-verb

    v-verb Hall of Fame

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    If I get a chance to I will. I've got all the Hi-Tens as well as several of Mark Woodforde's Wilson 110's in 12 x 16. Spin monsters all
     
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  45. TinTin 1

    TinTin 1 Professional

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    No, he helped design players frames. I will be working with him on Superlite line. He is very excited about the line, he thinks it is the future of tennis rackets even for pros.
     
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  46. comeback

    comeback Hall of Fame

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    Here is a 2015 super senior video of a Vortex Pro 116 used by the guy in the light blue top 84 years old .He was visiting my house and played so well with it, he bought it
    65 years old; Me: White Hat/all black shorts/no shirt
    94 yo my partner black shorts/white stripe
    versus
    84 yo light blue top
    62 yo black shorts /white shirt/no shirt

     
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  47. The Dark Knight

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    He should be and Vortex has known this for a very long time .

    The problem with Vortex and why it has not caught on is because it's not one of the brand names the tennis fans would use and no
    Pro has ever used it .

    Donnay on the other hand has name recognition and may succeed where Vortex has failed .

    If I were you I would test the Vortex ES 116 and imitate Mcenroe's style of play for the test .....you will be shocked at the results.'

    I would then make a Donnay version of the ES 116 and for the Love of God use the Borg paint job and maybe even get him to play with it on the senior tour!

    Why you have not used that paint job is just beyond me ??? Even Dunlop used Mcenroe's paint job .....this is a must for you guys !

    As a publicity stunt I would have mcenroe use his wood painted graphite Dunlop against Donnays Borg paint job . That would just be awesome ....and it would generate a lot of sales for you guys .
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2016
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  48. The Dark Knight

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    Wow thanks for that !!!

    Now for all of you who have never tried a Vortex ....looked at these guys and how easy they make it look....that's because it is easy with these sticks .....think of how much better you could play if they could do that.

    Donnay is just finding this out now.....the superlite 114 is just the beginning !

    And if you don't believe that ....please understand that Vortex has been around for a long time and most people would not even try them .....now Wilson and all these other companies have come out with the spin racquets and it's all the rage !!! You could have played with a Vortex way before the spin racquets if you just dared to try this small company .
     
    #48
  49. The Dark Knight

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    On another note ....there's an ex pro on this site by the name of travelerjam.....

    He has a thread called "ESP" string system. Stand for extra spin power or something .

    Anyway what he does is string Kevlar at 90 pounds on the mains and zyex at 45 pounds ...pre stretching both .

    What do you and Roman think about it ? If you look through the thread everyone who has tried it seems to love it .

    Personally it's just seems nuts to me.
     
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  50. The Dark Knight

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    Omg !!!! I hate you !!!!! I didn't realize woodfordes stick was 110???? Proves you can serve and volley with a large head !!

    That just made me feel great ! Thank you !

    Vortex has a 108 you should try when doing the test but maybe the pro 116 might not be a bad idea either .....or dare I say even my ES 116?

    Listen if you want to sell any of them I would pay top dollar ....no joke .
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2016
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