So is "Best Ever" gonna be between "Hardcourt Specialist Nadal" and Djoker?

O

octogon

Hall of Fame
Man, for a claycourt "specialist" Nads sure wins an awful lot of big titles on hardcourts. Guess he must be a "hardcourt specialist" as well. 5 Rogers Cups is very impressive, extending his Masters record to #35.

Nadal has a 2-1 H2H lead over Djokovic at the US Open, so providing injury doesn't hit, this may be a great opportunity for Nads to get another US Open title and put his slam count to #19.

Feel bad for Federer, but he may only have himself to blame for putting himself out of the race. Those two match points at Wimbledon were in his hands.
 
octogon said:
Feel bad for Federer, but he may only have himself to blame for putting himself out of the race. Those two match points at Wimbledon were in his hands.
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Well if you are saying 2 points (one really) is the difference, then this whole debate is a sham. But there will need to still be a lot more wins from Rafa and Djoker if Fed is going to be put "out" of the race.
 
Nadal is obviously more than a "clay court specialist" and an ATG even on hard, but let's not overreact to this win. I think he is well prepared for the USO so hopefully he will be holding up his 4th (crazy to think since the open era record is 5) trophy there.
 
IMO

Most likely to end up GOAT:
1. Djokovic
2 (tie) Federer
2 (tie) Nadal

It's still currently Federer though.
 
octogon said:
Man, for a claycourt "specialist" Nads sure wins an awful lot of big titles on hardcourts. Guess he must be a "hardcourt specialist" as well. 5 Rogers Cups is very impressive, extending his Masters record to #35.

Nadal has a 2-1 H2H lead over Djokovic at the US Open, so providing injury doesn't hit, this may be a great opportunity for Nads to get another US Open title and put his slam count to #19.

Feel bad for Federer, but he may only have himself to blame for putting himself out of the race. Those two match points at Wimbledon were in his hands.
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Dude couldn't beat Federer at Wimbledon. He'd be a clear underdog against Djokovic at USO.
 
King No1e said:
Dude couldn't beat Federer at Wimbledon. He'd be a clear underdog against Djokovic at USO.
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LOL!

38 year old Federer was ONE point away from beating Djokovic in the final. There is no shame in Nadal losing to even to this version of Federer. Whatever happens in the GOAT race, Federer is very clearly the greatest Grass Court player ever (sorry Sampras), and might still be capable of winning Wimbledon when he is 40. And Djoker never beat a PRIME Federer at Wimbledon. Nadal did.

Nadal knows how to beat Djokovic in US Open finals. He's done it often enough, and is in good form. All these guys are advantaged or disadvantaged by certain courts or conditions. US Open courts help Nadal' s game and makes him more even with Djokovic, whereas AustralIan Open courts give Djoker a big advantadge.

So yeah, Nadal can beat him at US Open. If Djoker even makes final.
 
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octobrina10 said:
Your post reminded me that Fed hasn't played a top-10 player in Halle since 2006.
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Ouch! Halle is the ultimate vulture tournament.

It'd be like Nadal going to one of those small-town South American clay court tournaments every year to get guaranteed wins.
 
nope, the best ever gonna v=be between djok:giggle:r and..fedr
 
octogon said:
Nadal has a 2-1 H2H lead over Djokovic at the US Open, so providing injury doesn't hit, this may be a great opportunity for Nads to get another US Open title and put his slam count to #19. Feel bad for Federer, but he may only have himself to blame for putting himself out of the race. Those two match points at Wimbledon were in his hands.
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Rafa only won USO when Novak was in his notorious slump periods ( 2010, 2013, 2017 ). It's not the case this year, sorry.
 
alexio88 said:
nope, the best ever gonna v=be between djok:giggle:r and..fedr
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Fed is all but out of the race. He blew his Best chance at Wimbledon this year, when he was a whisker from winning it. Fed feels like he can only win Wimbledon now, but every year gets harder because his body is aging. At the other slams, Fed needs both Djoker and Nadal to be injured or out of form. And at Wimbledon now due to age, he'll almost always lose to Djoker, despite being the greater grass court player.

Nadal owns the French. Guaranteed 2-3 more. Goes deep in all the other slams, so very likely to pick up a US Open title again. Maybe even Australia or Wimbledon again, if the draw falls right for him.

The next 2-3 years feels like it"ll be about Nadal and Djoker going for the slam record and GOAT status.
 
daddy said:
Rafa only won USO when Novak was in his notorious slump periods ( 2010, 2013, 2017 ). It's not the case this year, sorry.
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When Nadal wins the US Open this year, will Djoker be in a "slump" again?

Djoker wasn't in no slump in 2010 either. He was still a player famously known for having allergies and quitting matches. He didn't discover "Gluten Free" diet till 2011, and then he really became Djokovic 2.0.

But 2010 Djokovic simply wasn't good enough against Nadal. Nothing to do with any slump. He was still a level below Fed and Nadal then.
 
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octogon said:
Djoker wasn't in no slump in 2010 either. He was still a player famously known for having allergies and quitting matches.
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You mean he was at the top of his form but he was still considering quitting the sports alltogether ? Good one !(y)

See, Novak had exactly 8 ( EIGHT ) straight set wins over Rafa on hard courts prior the 2010. Let me remind you that is's a period when he was developing and his game was not even close to his peak levels so this hard fact diminishes just about everything you wrote.
 
King No1e said:
Dude couldn't beat Federer at Wimbledon. He'd be a clear underdog against Djokovic at USO.
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Federer was surprisingly good at Wimbledon this year and outplayed Djokovic in every aspect except for mental strength in the final so idk what it has to do with the US Open.
 
Yugram said:
Federer was surprisingly good at Wimbledon this year and outplayed Djokovic in every aspect except for mental strength in the final so idk what it has to do with the US Open.
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A. Grass is easier on Nadal's knees than HC, which is his weakest surface
B. He's supposed to own the matchup with Federer. He won't be the favorite against Djokovic on hard court.
Ergo, Rafa is unlikely to win USO.
 
Nadal's coach Moya said that grass is Nadal's SECOND BEST Surface. So it follows that hardcourt is Nadal's weakest surface.

As such if Federer beat Nadal easily in WImbledon, on Nadal's second best surface ......it follows that Federer will beat Nadal even easier on Nadal's 3rd best surface.

Hence- Nadal is a distant 3rd favorite for the UsOpen.

Fed is a vulture and the greatest opportunistic player in the history of the game. If Djokovic slips for even a second, Fed will win UsOpen and get to 21 slams. Mark my words.
It is only Djokovic who is preventing Fed from winning more slams and being the greatest of this era.
 
TennisFan3 said:
If Djokovic slips for even a second, Fed will win UsOpen and get to 21 slams. Mark my words.
It is only Djokovic who is preventing Fed from winning more slams and being the greatest of this era.
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How many Slams Federer needs to have a Slam record - prevent Djokovic from surpassing him - 21, 22 ...? Is there such a number that Federer can reach and Djokovic cannot reach from now til their respective retirements?
 
mwym said:
How many Slams Federer needs to have a Slam record - prevent Djokovic from surpassing him - 21, 22 ...? Is there such a number that Federer can reach and Djokovic cannot reach from now til their respective retirements?
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LOL no that's a myth! That TTW members like to have as an argument! Even if Federer wins not one or two but THREE more, there is no way of telling if Djokovic can't win his 24th or even 25th! As if there was no telling who ends up with the most grand slams between Nadal and Djokovic eventually! People just don't know this and can't know this! They only pretend due to bias and pure fanboy-ism (though i am guilty to admit i am one of those...) With next-gen being as useless as this not sure about Federer, but Djokodal can both pretty much play and still be favorites to win big trophies, including grand slams for MANY more seasons to come! Not just 2020 and 2021 (like Murray suggested...) As a matter of fact i would go as far as say it really depends whether Federer keeps them winning more or not! If he does they will keep trying to overcome his record even if they both start bleeding i ntheir 35+ Trust me! These next-gen guys cannot prevent Djokodal from fullfilling theor prohpecy! It's just ain't happening! Maybe next-gen after THIS...maybe...but that's a story for yet another 5-6 years...
 
Rafa is right in it at the US Open. It is much slower than the AO & Wimby and he has had good success there over the years, including over Djokovic. Djoker of course will be the favourite but it won't be an AO style beatdown if they meet.
 
mwym said:
How many Slams Federer needs to have a Slam record - prevent Djokovic from surpassing him - 21, 22 ...? Is there such a number that Federer can reach and Djokovic cannot reach from now til their respective retirements?
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I think it is impossible for Fed to protect his slam record now. Djokovic will eclipse him however many more slams fed wins. Djoker is 5 years younger and has several years of prime tennis and is usually the favorite at every slam.

It is a bitter pill to swallow but an unfortunate truth. When their careers finish, Djokovic will likely have more slams and be the greater player and the best of this era likely.

The only way this doesn't happen is if Djoker has an unfortunate career ending injury and that doesn't seem likely.
 
Yugram said:
Federer was surprisingly good at Wimbledon this year and outplayed Djokovic in every aspect except for mental strength in the final so idk what it has to do with the US Open.
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He outplayed a check out, nervous Djokovic who was nowhere near his A-game.
 
Backspin1183 said:
This is a weak troll era. The 90s clay was the last great troll.
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Nadal is 2 slams behind Fred and likely winning one a year for the next 2-3 years
Djokovic is 4 slams behind Fred, and likely winning 2-3 slams a year for the next 2 years.
So when all is said and done, Fred is either numero tres in his generation (if you're going to use the argument that he's part of Nadal and Djoker's generation to bolster his sad competition) or numero uno of a generation that included such heavy weights as Roddick, Gonzales, Baghdatis, Hewitt, and Philippousis. Your pick.
 
octogon said:
LOL!

37 year old Federer was ONE point away from beating Djokovic in the final. There is no shame in Nadal losing to even to this version of Federer. Whatever happens in the GOAT race, Federer is very clearly the greatest Grass Court player ever (sorry Sampras), and might still be capable of winning Wimbledon when he is 40. And Djoker never beat a PRIME Federer at Wimbledon. Nadal did.

Nadal knows how to beat Djokovic in US Open finals. He's done it often enough, and is in good form. All these guys are advantaged or disadvantaged by certain courts or conditions. US Open courts help Nadal' s game and makes him more even with Djokovic, whereas AustralIan Open courts give Djoker a big advantadge.

So yeah, Nadal can beat him at US Open. If Djoker even makes final.
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Yes, Nadal CAN beat Djokovic at USO, but he will certainly be the underdog against Novak. Rafa isn’t the same player he used to be and hasn’t beaten Djokovic off of clay since the 2013 final. To say he wouldn’t be the underdog against Novak due to having a 2-1 edge over him in USO would be like saying Wawrinka wouldn’t be the underdog against Novak in a USO final due to having a 2-0 edge over him in GS finals.
 
Do not try to use titles or the slam count to justify your favorites GOAThood , that is impossible. Instead only realize there is no contest for who is GOAT. Then you''ll see that Federer has been the GOAT always and that is the secret to being at peace with tennis.
 
er4claw said:
Do not try to use titles or the slam count to justify your favorites GOAThood , that is impossible. Instead only realize there is no contest for who is GOAT. Then you''ll see that Federer has been the GOAT always and that is the secret to being at peace with tennis.
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Federer fans used to talk about the Slam count all time when it looked unlikely that anyone could catch him.

Now that there is a strong chance TWO players can overtake him, it doesn't matter?

That's convinient. I like Fed. He's been great for the game. But the media were always stupid to crown him GOAT, when two significantly younger all-time greats like Nadal and Djoker were chasing him down. It'll be strange to think of Fed as the third best player of an era, but if Nadal and Djoker keep winning slams (And Fed keeps aging and losing chances to add to his count), it's a real possibility now.

Don"t shoot the messenger. I didn't invent the concept of the Slam record deciding who the best was. Right now, it's still Fed. But probably not for much longer.
 
TennisFan3 said:
Nadal's coach Moya said that grass is Nadal's SECOND BEST Surface. So it follows that hardcourt is Nadal's weakest surface.

As such if Federer beat Nadal easily in WImbledon, on Nadal's second best surface ......it follows that Federer will beat Nadal even easier on Nadal's 3rd best surface.

Hence- Nadal is a distant 3rd favorite for the UsOpen.
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LOL!

Moya sometimes talks crap like Uncle Toni to keep Nads motivated. Grass has not been Nadal's second best surface for nearly 10 years. Nadal's game matured at different rates on different surfaces. Grass was AT ONE TIME his second best surface, but as he became a better Hard court player, his game on grass fell behind his Hard court game. Nadal's Hard court record vs his grass court record in the last 9 years tells anyone with a brain that hardcourts have been his second best surface for nearly 10 years.

If Moya told you to jump off a bridge, would you do it?
 
octogon said:
Federer fans used to talk about the Slam count all time when it looked unlikely that anyone could catch him.

Now that there is a strong chance TWO players can overtake him, it doesn't matter?

That's convinient. I like Fed. He's been great for the game. But the media were always stupid to crown him GOAT, when two significantly younger all-time greats like Nadal and Djoker were chasing him down. It'll be strange to think of Fed as the third best player of an era, but if Nadal and Djoker keep winning slams (And Fed keeps aging and losing chances to add to his count), it's a real possibility now.

Don"t shoot the messenger. I didn't invent the concept of the Slam record deciding who the best was. Right now, it's still Fed. But probably not for much longer.
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Problem for Federer fans is by their logic Federer is 3rd of his era lol. Thats why they get wound up.
 
octogon said:
And at Wimbledon now due to age, he'll almost always lose to Djoker, despite being the greater grass court player.
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Truer words have not been spoken.

I still think Fed has a slight chance at UO this year to at least reach the SF. If he does not win the UO this year, it's over at UO. RG has always been over for every player due to Nadal. AO is gone for Fedr too, only Wimbledon remains after this year and even there it's at most a 50% of winning it due to Djokovic or upset possibilities like Anderson in '18.
 
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