so, now that 2 out of big 3 are retired and no one has all stats on his side, who is greater?
- Thread starter GoatNo1
- Start date
GoatNo1
Hall of Fame
ok
KantenKlaar
Hall of Fame
Bull is Bull is GOAT
Tennfan123
Legend
The h2h in their primes wins it for rafa
Racquet_smash
Professional
On this website the poll result is obvious.
N01E
Hall of Fame
It would be nice if you could include the position of each achievement on the OE list. There's the anomaly with Rafa's YEC that I think is too big to ignore. He's also not in top 5 of W#1, whereas Roger doesn't leave top 3 in any stat other than OG. Had Federer won 2017 YE#1 or even the YEC it would have been clear, but now I'd say he's slightly ahead.
JoJoHackshow
Rookie
By that logic, Davydenko is greater than Claydal LOL
dadadas
Semi-Pro
Nadal.
Nadal managed to beat Federer on grass but Fed was hopeless against Nadal on clay.
Of course you can make an arguement for Fed being better than Nadal due to Fed having better records vs the field or Fed having better GS resumes on hard court & grass court
But i think that the better player is the one that did not have a weakness that can be easily exploited by the other.
Nadal managed to beat Federer on grass but Fed was hopeless against Nadal on clay.
Of course you can make an arguement for Fed being better than Nadal due to Fed having better records vs the field or Fed having better GS resumes on hard court & grass court
But i think that the better player is the one that did not have a weakness that can be easily exploited by the other.
GoatNo1
Hall of Fame
edited
JoJoHackshow
Rookie
So? Federer was better against the field by far, of course on anything other than clay. Hence why his records are greater literally everywhere else
Certainly, for you!
Find it very hard to split the two although both slightly behind Novak.
I think Fed has slighly more going for him overall and i do not place too much weight on Raf'a superior h2h as h2h's can be misleading. I mean peak Sampras had losing h2h to Krajeck (who won one GS and was light years behind Pete in every other stat).
However, Rafa does have 2 more slams and i think was slightly mentally tougher and he has an OG for singles.
If really pushed i might go Roger, but i honestly think very tough to call.
I think Fed has slighly more going for him overall and i do not place too much weight on Raf'a superior h2h as h2h's can be misleading. I mean peak Sampras had losing h2h to Krajeck (who won one GS and was light years behind Pete in every other stat).
However, Rafa does have 2 more slams and i think was slightly mentally tougher and he has an OG for singles.
If really pushed i might go Roger, but i honestly think very tough to call.
Donkus_Reborn
Semi-Pro
Federer is greater. His slams are worth more as he was able to dominate a tired Safin at AO 04, an all time great called baghdathis at AO06, Gonzo in 07, Murray at US08, Hewitt and Roddick a bunch of times, and managed to win the FO in the 00's without going through Nadal. Anyone who takes this as a negative is trolling - I am saying that the best way is sometimes the easiest way.
gamelovergold
Semi-Pro
If you ignore novak and want to find out who among rafa and roger is best than rafa get the vote. Being great on one surface clay but still able to win 8 slams outside is enough . Fedrer was all court player but 1 french open that is not enough
Sport
G.O.A.T.
Grand Slam titles are the most relevant all-time great criterion, with other criteria being merely tie-breakers in case two players are tied in the Slam count.
24 > 22 > 20.
1. Djokovic.
2. Nadal.
3. Federer.
Plus, while Federer has more weeks at #1 and ATP finals, Nadal overcompensates that with 2 extra Slams, Double Career Grand Slam, OG in singles, H2H advantage, more Big Titles and more Masters 1000.
Federer only posseses a statistical advantage in 2 main categories:
1. Weeks at #1 (both overall and consecutive).
2. ATP finals.
Nadal has a statistical advantage in 6 main categories:
1. Grand Slams.
2. Double Career Grand Slam.
3. Olympics.
4. H2H (both in Slams and overall, and including 8-6 in outdoor hard and 3-1 at the AO, and Rafa has always led Federer in the H2H, even when Roger was young and at his best in 2004-2007 and 2004-2009).
5. Big Titles.
6. Masters 1000.
Btw, the chess GOAT Magnus Carlsen picks Nadal over Federer without hesitation:
24 > 22 > 20.
1. Djokovic.
2. Nadal.
3. Federer.
Plus, while Federer has more weeks at #1 and ATP finals, Nadal overcompensates that with 2 extra Slams, Double Career Grand Slam, OG in singles, H2H advantage, more Big Titles and more Masters 1000.
Federer only posseses a statistical advantage in 2 main categories:
1. Weeks at #1 (both overall and consecutive).
2. ATP finals.
Nadal has a statistical advantage in 6 main categories:
1. Grand Slams.
2. Double Career Grand Slam.
3. Olympics.
4. H2H (both in Slams and overall, and including 8-6 in outdoor hard and 3-1 at the AO, and Rafa has always led Federer in the H2H, even when Roger was young and at his best in 2004-2007 and 2004-2009).
5. Big Titles.
6. Masters 1000.
Btw, the chess GOAT Magnus Carlsen picks Nadal over Federer without hesitation:
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nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Nadal
If you remove 250s Nadal has more wins than Fed. And Nadal played least 250s of big 3 if I am correct.
They are so close that anyone choosing Fed is also ok though.
If you remove 250s Nadal has more wins than Fed. And Nadal played least 250s of big 3 if I am correct.
They are so close that anyone choosing Fed is also ok though.
Genie Of the Bank
Hall of Fame
At slams and masters its Rafa , at WTF Fed by a country mile.
messiahrobins
Legend
Its hard to really judge without a defined parameter as to what is the criteria to be GOAT. Even harder when there are not equal events on all surfaces. for instance not one M1000 on grass court, which is Federer's best surface while Rafa has 3 on clay his best surface. Nadal has more slams plus Olympic Gold and the better H2h overall and at the slams, but Federer holds the record at two of the 4 slams., one of which is Wimbledon the most prestigious event. For me W2008 was the match that swings the pendulum to Nadal but we are talking the finest of margins and in truth the debate can swing both ways. In fact as boring as it is to say they are probably dead equal, Nadal greater on slower courts and Federer greater on faster ones.
Olli Jokinen
Hall of Fame
Great, more GOAT threads.
Neptune
Hall of Fame
It’s insane that none of them holds any pivotal records (weeks at #1, year-end #1, Slams, TF, Masters).
Fed and Rafa will always be a close call for 2nd place in their Era or the Open Era.
Should add Top 5 and Top 10 wins. @GoatNo1
Fed and Rafa will always be a close call for 2nd place in their Era or the Open Era.
Should add Top 5 and Top 10 wins. @GoatNo1
Career | vs Top5 | T5 Weight | vs Top10 | T10 Weight | vs T11+ | T11+ Weight | vs All | Surface |
Fed | 179 (104-75) 58.10% | 11.73% | 347 (224-123) 64.55% | 22.74% | 1179 (1027-152) 87.11% | 77.26% | 1526 (1251-275) 81.98% | Weight |
Rafa | 156 (93-63) 59.62% | 11.94% | 291 (186-105) 63.92% | 22.26% | 1016 (894-122) 87.99% | 77.74% | 1307 (1080-227) 82.63% | |
HC | | | | | | | | |
Fed | 120 (75-45) 62.50% | 12.78% | 240 (162-78) 67.50% | 25.56% | 699 (621-78) 88.84% | 74.44% | 939 (783-156) 83.39% | 61.53% |
Rafa | 73 (30-43) 41.10% | 10.93% | 150 (75-75) 50.00% | 22.46% | 518 (443-75) 85.52% | 77.54% | 668 (518-150) 77.54% | 51.11% |
CC | | | | | | | | |
Fed | 39 (18-21) 46.15% | 13.13% | 61 (32-29) 52.46% | 20.54% | 236 (194-42) 82.20% | 79.46% | 297 (226-71) 76.09% | 19.46% |
Rafa | 73 (57-16) 78.08% | 13.64% | 128 (102-26) 79.69% | 23.93% | 407 (382-25) 93.86% | 76.07% | 535 (484-51) 90.47% | 40.93% |
GC | | | | | | | | |
Fed | 17 (11-6) 64.71% | 7.69% | 32 (21-11) 65.63% | 14.48% | 189 (171-18) 90.48% | 85.52% | 221 (192-29) 86.88% | 14.48% |
Rafa | 10 (6-4) 60.00% | 10.42% | 13 (9-4) 69.23% | 13.54% | 83 (67-16) 80.72% | 86.46% | 96 (76-20) 79.17% | 7.35% |
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JoJoHackshow
Rookie
us Nole fam obviously voting for Rafa, because otherwise it would go against the whole "slam count is all that matters" narrative lol
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
I will not let you put brother vs brother.
I will never choose!
I will never choose!
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
Fed dominated his era like no one ever has.
GabeT
G.O.A.T.
Another “new” user!
Slam count is all that matters was a Fed fam favorite for years. Then circumstances changed
Novak holds practically all the key records, his standing in tennis history is not reliant solely on having won the most slams
And LOL at you being a Novak fan
Nappa
Professional
Where was Nole ranked when they were all fit and playing? Vulturing in a weak era with no Fedal in sight wont change it.
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
Yep. No one has ever dominated the way fed did. Even if he lost the numbers in the end.
Hood_Man
G.O.A.T.
You'd think 2017-2018 would have shown these people just how bad the next gen players at that time were that when both Murray and Djokovic were sidelined by injury, it wasn't a next gen star who came in and dominated, it was a 35 year old returning from knee surgery - if not for the resurgence of his back injury in the second half of 2017 he may have had a season equalling his 2004 effort, at age 36.
Considering Novak had that same advantage his whole career he should be breaking pre-open era records for title victories.
Neptune
Hall of Fame
Peak:
Peak | vs Top5 | T5 Weight | vs Top10 | T10 Weight | vs T11+ | T11+ Weight | vs All | Opp Rank | Opp Elo |
Nole 11-16 | 91 (66-25) 72.53% | 19.08% | 174 (140-34) 80.46% | 36.48% | 303 (287-16) 94.72% | 63.52% | 477 (427-50) 89.52% | 18 | 2086 |
Fed 04-09 | 67 (44-23) 65.67% | 13.59% | 121 (91-30) 75.21% | 24.54% | 372 (351-21) 94.35% | 75.46% | 493 (442-51) 89.66% | 26 | 2017 |
Rafa 08-13 | 73 (47-26) 64.38% | 15.60% | 133 (93-40) 69.92% | 28.42% | 335 (313-22) 93.43% | 71.58% | 468 (406-62) 86.75% | 23 | 2045 |
Lendl 84-89 | 74 (52-22) 70.27% | 15.81% | 116 (83-33) 71.55% | 24.79% | 352 (333-19) 94.60% | 75.21% | 468 (416-52) 88.89% | 27 | 2014 |
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Rubbish posts by rubbish user
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Yes
Fed is 250s and 500s goat
Who cares grass didn't have masters it's his fault stat padding in lower events but not doing enough in big
Rafa 59 Fed 54
Case closed.
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
Accomplishments is the key no? That is why djoker is the best.
5 straight uso and 5 straight WC while retaining number one foe 237 straight weeks and winning 12 slams during that time. Never been done.
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
Start having some class. Not a good look.
GoatNo1
Hall of Fame
????
why should nole fans be pro "slams are all that matter" narativ? firstly it is not true and secondly why should we limit noles superiority only with slam category when he has literally all main records and with bigger margin than slam record?
GoatNo1
Hall of Fame
all measurable criteria and stats point to nole as most dominant. he had the greatest season and both one year period and 2 years period. nole-slam. highest ATP points record. highest ELO. positive h2h vs all main rivals. best W% and best W% vs top5 and top10 players and most top10 wins. and he is leader in titles in all big titles categories.
JoJoHackshow
Rookie
True man, but there's no denying he won the majority of his titles from 2018 to 2023, which was a very weak era I'll admit (perhaps even the weakest era)
GabeT
G.O.A.T.
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GoatNo1
Hall of Fame
not true! firstly it was not weakest that feds early era and secondly in that period he wan 30 out of his 99 titles. so 30% can not be majority!
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
Yes, stats are in his favour. Which is why I understand if people feel this way.
But stats is not everything, never has been and never will be.
From my perspective, Fed dominated like no other tennis player has during his run to 12 slams. Most incredible domination I have seen in my lifetime at the very least. Djoker has never even won 5 straight anything, let us alone do 2 surfaces at the same time. His best streak at number one is like 3 years less than Feds. He won 14 slams in a 6 year period. It is insane how dominant he was.
Hitman
Bionic Poster
You have just given more stats. Just this time, the stats favor Federer.
SpinWizard
Semi-Pro
Rafa. Period.
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