So the amazing aggression of 2010 and 2013 HC season didn't come out of nowhere: Teen Nadal vs Hewitt 2005 AO in great quality.

[ForehandCross]

Here's Nadal playing the Federer fan's "good tennis".

Not much grinding, aggressive and tenacious.

Not loopy FHs opening courts but deep hard hitting shots to near the lines.


If Nadal could always play like this on HCs , what happened? Why it took 2010 and 2013 for this Nadal to re emerge?

 

[aldeayeah]

If Nadal could always play like this on HCs , what happened? Why it took 2010 and 2013 for this Nadal to re emerge?

Several possible explanations:

- Nadal just hates making UEs.
- His clay style was so successful it became deeply ingrained.
- The grindy style combined with his sheer athleticism was better against the field.

 

[RS]

His serve and BH had not improved yet. He just got better offensive wise as the years came.

 

[NatF]

Here's Nadal playing the Federer fan's "good tennis".

Not much grinding, aggressive and tenacious.

Not loopy FHs opening courts but deep hard hitting shots to near the lines.


If Nadal could always play like this on HCs , what happened? Why it took 2010 and 2013 for this Nadal to re emerge?

Ironically it was the more grindy spinny balls from Nadal this match, that got up high on Hewitt, that he found more difficult to deal with.

Nadal always had the ability to hit big, I've referenced it before but there were matches in Miami in 05 where he was averaging 80 mph on both wings.

 

[ForehandCross]

Nadal this match, that got up high on Hewitt, that he found more difficult to deal with.

In the first set he was ripping it. But yes by second , to a greater success he started to grind and moonball

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

It's kinda funny that baby Nadal pushed peak Hewitt to the brink lol.

 

[TennisProExpert]

That doesn’t count as it’s baby Nadal. He only became non baby in 2008 when the strong era started overnight.

 

[Sabrina]

It's kinda funny that baby Nadal pushed peak Hewitt to the brink lol.

Hewitt played better in the QF and SF, too. Still a impressive performance from baby Nadal, far better than a year before that.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Hewitt played better in the QF and SF, too. Still a impressive performance from baby Nadal, far better than a year before that.

The fact that 2005 was the only time Hewitt got to AO QF and he had to play many difficult matches to reach the final shows that his level was never that high at AO, but he showed great resilience in that '05 run indeed.

Still, 2005 AO wasn't too bad a level from Nadal as well, like fifth best I guess (after 2009, 2012, 2014 pre-injury and 2017). So best AO Hewitt edging fifth best AO Nadal doesn't sound terrible.

 

[Sabrina]

The fact that 2005 was the only time Hewitt got to AO QF and he had to play many difficult matches to reach the final shows that his level was never that high at AO, but he showed great resilience in that '05 run indeed.

Still, 2005 AO wasn't too bad a level from Nadal as well, like fifth best I guess (after 2009, 2012, 2014 pre-injury and 2017). So best AO Hewitt edging fifth best AO Nadal doesn't sound terrible.

I think Nadal was better in 2008, just had the bad luck of facing a devine version of Jo.

 

[alexio]

The fact that 2005 was the only time Hewitt got to AO QF and he had to play many difficult matches to reach the final shows that his level was never that high at AO, but he showed great resilience in that '05 run indeed.

Still, 2005 AO wasn't too bad a level from Nadal as well, like fifth best I guess (after 2009, 2012, 2014 pre-injury and 2017). So best AO Hewitt edging fifth best AO Nadal doesn't sound terrible.

кто выиграет пик на пик если на юс опен, надаль или федерер,? ты любишь настаивать на пике, ну так интересно кто же выиграет по -твоему?

 

[the green god]

Here's Nadal playing the Federer fan's "good tennis".

Not much grinding, aggressive and tenacious.

Not loopy FHs opening courts but deep hard hitting shots to near the lines.


If Nadal could always play like this on HCs , what happened? Why it took 2010 and 2013 for this Nadal to re emerge?

Never change a winning game.

 

[Third Serve]

The fact that 2005 was the only time Hewitt got to AO QF and he had to play many difficult matches to reach the final shows that his level was never that high at AO, but he showed great resilience in that '05 run indeed.

Still, 2005 AO wasn't too bad a level from Nadal as well, like fifth best I guess (after 2009, 2012, 2014 pre-injury and 2017). So best AO Hewitt edging fifth best AO Nadal doesn't sound terrible.

Think maybe 2007 and 2008 were better as well.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Think maybe 2007 and 2008 were better as well.

babyray should've beaten nads in straights in 07 if he didn't choke tbh

 

[RS]

It's kinda funny that baby Nadal pushed peak Hewitt to the brink lol.

Hewitt made up for it with a near win vs hypo peakdal in Hamburg 07.

 

[mike danny]

The fact that 2005 was the only time Hewitt got to AO QF and he had to play many difficult matches to reach the final shows that his level was never that high at AO, but he showed great resilience in that '05 run indeed.

Still, 2005 AO wasn't too bad a level from Nadal as well, like fifth best I guess (after 2009, 2012, 2014 pre-injury and 2017). So best AO Hewitt edging fifth best AO Nadal doesn't sound terrible.

Roddick really should have beaten Hewitt at the 2005 AO. He started out on fire, similar to the 2004 Wimb final, but couldn't clutch out a tiebreak to save his life. He was unplayable for a set and a half against Hewitt.

And I think he would have given Safin a sterner test in the final than Hewitt did. Safin didn't really enjoy Roddick's power.

 

[mike danny]

Hewitt made up for it with a near win vs hypo peakdal in Hamburg 07.

Hamburg 2007 was one of the rare great runs from Hewitt after 2005.

 

[NatF]

The fact that 2005 was the only time Hewitt got to AO QF and he had to play many difficult matches to reach the final shows that his level was never that high at AO, but he showed great resilience in that '05 run indeed.

Still, 2005 AO wasn't too bad a level from Nadal as well, like fifth best I guess (after 2009, 2012, 2014 pre-injury and 2017). So best AO Hewitt edging fifth best AO Nadal doesn't sound terrible.

Hewitt had tough luck with draws at the AO. Many difficult matches? You've seen the draw, if he had some of the mug draws others have had he'd have been to at least the SF on a few occasions.

Hewitt probably played his best in the last two rounds of the event anyway.

 

[NatF]

Roddick really should have beaten Hewitt at the 2005 AO. He started out on fire, similar to the 2004 Wimb final, but couldn't clutch out a tiebreak to save his life. He was unplayable for a set and a half against Hewitt.

And I think he would have given Safin a sterner test in the final than Hewitt did. Safin didn't really enjoy Roddick's power.

Roddick's serve was unplayable but after the first set Hewitt was absolutely bossing the rallies for the most part. He was clearly the better player in that match.

 

[Sabrina]

Roddick's serve was unplayable but after the first set Hewitt was absolutely bossing the rallies for the most part. He was clearly the better player in that match.

Roddick looked sluggish in that match, even in the very early 2005. He was nowhere near the same player comparing to 2 years before that. Still should have pushed that match to 5th set at least.

 

[mike danny]

Roddick's serve was unplayable but after the first set Hewitt was absolutely bossing the rallies for the most part. He was clearly the better player in that match.

Ok, fair enough. Still think it was a match Roddick could have won. If he had won the second or third set, I don't think Hewitt could have come back.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Hewitt had tough luck with draws at the AO. Many difficult matches? You've seen the draw, if he had some of the mug draws others have had he'd have been to at least the SF on a few occasions.

Hewitt probably played his best in the last two rounds of the event anyway.

Getting squished for two sets by both teendal and nalby isn't great, in honesty. Hewitt had the guts to squeeze through and played better in SF/F I agree. Not ATG level but fully respectable, perhaps on par with peak AO Murray (Wawrinka is peaker of course).

True enough he never got an easy 4R hence six losses at that stage.

 

[mike danny]

Getting squished for two sets by both teendal and nalby isn't great, in honesty. Hewitt had the guts to squeeze through and played better in SF/F I agree. Not ATG level but fully respectable, perhaps on par with peak AO Murray (Wawrinka is peaker of course).

2005 AO Hewitt and 2009 Wimb Roddick both had some of the best slam runs you can hope for given their talent. It's such a shame neither could win those respective slams.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

2005 AO Hewitt and 2009 Wimb Roddick both had some of the best slam runs you can hope for given their talent. It's such a shame neither could win those respective slams.

Roddick ended up giving a much more memorable final though. His serve shielded him well on the grass. Hewitt didn't have a singular mighty weapon to stop Safin when he started goating.

 

[NatF]

Getting squished for two sets by both teendal and nalby isn't great, in honesty. Hewitt had the guts to squeeze through and played better in SF/F I agree. Not ATG level but fully respectable, perhaps on par with peak AO Murray (Wawrinka is peaker of course).

True enough he never got an easy 4R hence six losses at that stage.

He had hip pain in both the Nadal and Nalbandian matches so his level was up and down. If Nalbandian can push peak Fed to four tight ones beating him in five with hip pain isn't bad no? He was consistently good to great in the SF/F, would put those rounds up there with Murray's best. His earlier rounds had some clear dips for sure.

Shame he got Nadal/Nalbandian instead of Kukushkin/Baby Nishikori or drew Federer/Nalbandian instead of Simon/Chardy or Aynaoui/Roddick instead of Melzer/Dolgopolov.

 

[mike danny]

He had hip pain in both the Nadal and Nalbandian matches so his level was up and down. If Nalbandian can push peak Fed to four tight ones beating him in five with hip pain isn't bad no? He was consistently good to great in the SF/F, would put those rounds up there with Murray's best. His earlier rounds had some clear dips for sure.

Shame he got Nadal/Nalbandian instead of Kukushkin/Baby Nishikori or drew Federer/Nalbandian instead of Simon/Chardy or Aynaoui/Roddick instead of Melzer/Dolgopolov.

Yeah, in hindsight, 2005 Hewitt had a tougher AO draw than Murray ever had.

 

[NatF]

Roddick looked sluggish in that match, even in the very early 2005. He was nowhere near the same player comparing to 2 years before that. Still should have pushed that match to 5th set at least.

Yeah, he was definitely flat footed - especially compared to the classic in 2003. Kinda weird because in the summer of 06 he was back moving very well.

 

[mike danny]

Yeah, he was definitely flat footed - especially compared to the classic in 2003. Kinda weird because in the summer of 06 he was back moving very well.

Heck, in 2009 he was moving better too. Kinda weird.

 

[NatF]

Ok, fair enough. Still think it was a match Roddick could have won. If he had won the second or third set, I don't think Hewitt could have come back.

The 2nd set was super high quality from both, Hewitt just mentally stronger and better off the ground.

 

[NatF]

Heck, in 2009 he was moving better too. Kinda weird.

Not sure if he put on more weight or what. Would love to sit down with Arod and compare the two matches back to back and ask him why his movement was so different. The guy was a good athlete and quick in his youth.

 

[mike danny]

Yeah, he was definitely flat footed - especially compared to the classic in 2003. Kinda weird because in the summer of 06 he was back moving very well.

On an unrelated note, I think Roddick fired Gilbert because of all those losses to Hewitt and Federer. Wimb 2004, Toronto 2004, YEC 2004, AO 2005 and IW 2005 probably sent Roddick over the edge. Especially, losses 1, 3, 4 and 5.

 

[RelentlessAttack]

In 04 against Hewitt I think it was, Nadal was crushing aggressive forehands and lost easily. He and Toni made the change to the buggy whip and grind it out style because it worked better against the field, they’ve said as much in the past

 

[Sabrina]

On an unrelated note, I think Roddick fired Gilbert because of all those losses to Hewitt and Federer. Wimb 2004, Toronto 2004, YEC 2004, AO 2005 and IW 2005 probably sent Roddick over the edge. Especially, losses 1, 3, 4 and 5.

A-Rod already fired Gilbert at the end of 2004. Probably the biggest mistakes of his career IMO.

 

[NatF]

On an unrelated note, I think Roddick fired Gilbert because of all those losses to Hewitt and Federer. Wimb 2004, Toronto 2004, YEC 2004, AO 2005 and IW 2005 probably sent Roddick over the edge. Especially, losses 1, 3, 4 and 5.

Hewitt eviscerated Roddick at the YEC, that too after Roddick had some very good wins over Henman and Safin, think Hewitt won like 20 straight points or something to close breaking Roddick multiple times to love.

 

[NatF]

A-Rod already fired Gilbert at the end of 2004. Probably the biggest mistake of his career IMO.

Roddick had untapped potential IMO. He basically stopped playing to his strengths after 04.

 

[Sabrina]

Roddick had untapped potential IMO. He basically stopped playing to his strengths after 04.

Yes. Everytime talks about Roddick, it makes me feel sad for him.

 

[mike danny]

Roddick had untapped potential IMO. He basically stopped playing to his strengths after 04.

He still played with power at 2005 AO and 2005 IW, didn't he?

 

[NatF]

He still played with power at 2005 AO and 2005 IW, didn't he?

Yeah combination of junkballing and big forehand. He played very well at Cincy too, good aggressive hitting but he shat the bed versus Federer.

 

[mike danny]

Yeah combination of junkballing and big forehand. He played very well at Cincy too, good aggressive hitting but he shat the bed versus Federer.

Roddick was disappointing in 2005 overall after his great 2003 and 2004.