So the amazing aggression of 2010 and 2013 HC season didn't come out of nowhere: Teen Nadal vs Hewitt 2005 AO in great quality.

ForehandCross

Hall of Fame
Here's Nadal playing the Federer fan's "good tennis".

Not much grinding, aggressive and tenacious.

Not loopy FHs opening courts but deep hard hitting shots to near the lines.


If Nadal could always play like this on HCs , what happened? Why it took 2010 and 2013 for this Nadal to re emerge?

 

aldeayeah

Legend
If Nadal could always play like this on HCs , what happened? Why it took 2010 and 2013 for this Nadal to re emerge?
Several possible explanations:

- Nadal just hates making UEs.
- His clay style was so successful it became deeply ingrained.
- The grindy style combined with his sheer athleticism was better against the field.
 

RS

Legend
His serve and BH had not improved yet. He just got better offensive wise as the years came.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Here's Nadal playing the Federer fan's "good tennis".

Not much grinding, aggressive and tenacious.

Not loopy FHs opening courts but deep hard hitting shots to near the lines.


If Nadal could always play like this on HCs , what happened? Why it took 2010 and 2013 for this Nadal to re emerge?

Ironically it was the more grindy spinny balls from Nadal this match, that got up high on Hewitt, that he found more difficult to deal with.

Nadal always had the ability to hit big, I've referenced it before but there were matches in Miami in 05 where he was averaging 80 mph on both wings.
 
Hewitt played better in the QF and SF, too. Still a impressive performance from baby Nadal, far better than a year before that.
The fact that 2005 was the only time Hewitt got to AO QF and he had to play many difficult matches to reach the final shows that his level was never that high at AO, but he showed great resilience in that '05 run indeed.

Still, 2005 AO wasn't too bad a level from Nadal as well, like fifth best I guess (after 2009, 2012, 2014 pre-injury and 2017). So best AO Hewitt edging fifth best AO Nadal doesn't sound terrible.
 

Sabrina

Professional
The fact that 2005 was the only time Hewitt got to AO QF and he had to play many difficult matches to reach the final shows that his level was never that high at AO, but he showed great resilience in that '05 run indeed.

Still, 2005 AO wasn't too bad a level from Nadal as well, like fifth best I guess (after 2009, 2012, 2014 pre-injury and 2017). So best AO Hewitt edging fifth best AO Nadal doesn't sound terrible.
I think Nadal was better in 2008, just had the bad luck of facing a devine version of Jo.
 

alexio

Hall of Fame
The fact that 2005 was the only time Hewitt got to AO QF and he had to play many difficult matches to reach the final shows that his level was never that high at AO, but he showed great resilience in that '05 run indeed.

Still, 2005 AO wasn't too bad a level from Nadal as well, like fifth best I guess (after 2009, 2012, 2014 pre-injury and 2017). So best AO Hewitt edging fifth best AO Nadal doesn't sound terrible.
кто выиграет пик на пик если на юс опен, надаль или федерер,? ты любишь настаивать на пике, ну так интересно кто же выиграет по -твоему?:D
 

the green god

Professional
Here's Nadal playing the Federer fan's "good tennis".

Not much grinding, aggressive and tenacious.

Not loopy FHs opening courts but deep hard hitting shots to near the lines.


If Nadal could always play like this on HCs , what happened? Why it took 2010 and 2013 for this Nadal to re emerge?

Never change a winning game.
 

Third Serve

G.O.A.T.
The fact that 2005 was the only time Hewitt got to AO QF and he had to play many difficult matches to reach the final shows that his level was never that high at AO, but he showed great resilience in that '05 run indeed.

Still, 2005 AO wasn't too bad a level from Nadal as well, like fifth best I guess (after 2009, 2012, 2014 pre-injury and 2017). So best AO Hewitt edging fifth best AO Nadal doesn't sound terrible.
Think maybe 2007 and 2008 were better as well.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
The fact that 2005 was the only time Hewitt got to AO QF and he had to play many difficult matches to reach the final shows that his level was never that high at AO, but he showed great resilience in that '05 run indeed.

Still, 2005 AO wasn't too bad a level from Nadal as well, like fifth best I guess (after 2009, 2012, 2014 pre-injury and 2017). So best AO Hewitt edging fifth best AO Nadal doesn't sound terrible.
Roddick really should have beaten Hewitt at the 2005 AO. He started out on fire, similar to the 2004 Wimb final, but couldn't clutch out a tiebreak to save his life. He was unplayable for a set and a half against Hewitt.

And I think he would have given Safin a sterner test in the final than Hewitt did. Safin didn't really enjoy Roddick's power.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
The fact that 2005 was the only time Hewitt got to AO QF and he had to play many difficult matches to reach the final shows that his level was never that high at AO, but he showed great resilience in that '05 run indeed.

Still, 2005 AO wasn't too bad a level from Nadal as well, like fifth best I guess (after 2009, 2012, 2014 pre-injury and 2017). So best AO Hewitt edging fifth best AO Nadal doesn't sound terrible.
Hewitt had tough luck with draws at the AO. Many difficult matches? You've seen the draw, if he had some of the mug draws others have had he'd have been to at least the SF on a few occasions.

Hewitt probably played his best in the last two rounds of the event anyway.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Roddick really should have beaten Hewitt at the 2005 AO. He started out on fire, similar to the 2004 Wimb final, but couldn't clutch out a tiebreak to save his life. He was unplayable for a set and a half against Hewitt.

And I think he would have given Safin a sterner test in the final than Hewitt did. Safin didn't really enjoy Roddick's power.
Roddick's serve was unplayable but after the first set Hewitt was absolutely bossing the rallies for the most part. He was clearly the better player in that match.
 

Sabrina

Professional
Roddick's serve was unplayable but after the first set Hewitt was absolutely bossing the rallies for the most part. He was clearly the better player in that match.
Roddick looked sluggish in that match, even in the very early 2005. He was nowhere near the same player comparing to 2 years before that. Still should have pushed that match to 5th set at least.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Roddick's serve was unplayable but after the first set Hewitt was absolutely bossing the rallies for the most part. He was clearly the better player in that match.
Ok, fair enough. Still think it was a match Roddick could have won. If he had won the second or third set, I don't think Hewitt could have come back.
 
Hewitt had tough luck with draws at the AO. Many difficult matches? You've seen the draw, if he had some of the mug draws others have had he'd have been to at least the SF on a few occasions.

Hewitt probably played his best in the last two rounds of the event anyway.
Getting squished for two sets by both teendal and nalby isn't great, in honesty. Hewitt had the guts to squeeze through and played better in SF/F I agree. Not ATG level but fully respectable, perhaps on par with peak AO Murray (Wawrinka is peaker of course).

True enough he never got an easy 4R hence six losses at that stage.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Getting squished for two sets by both teendal and nalby isn't great, in honesty. Hewitt had the guts to squeeze through and played better in SF/F I agree. Not ATG level but fully respectable, perhaps on par with peak AO Murray (Wawrinka is peaker of course).
2005 AO Hewitt and 2009 Wimb Roddick both had some of the best slam runs you can hope for given their talent. It's such a shame neither could win those respective slams.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Getting squished for two sets by both teendal and nalby isn't great, in honesty. Hewitt had the guts to squeeze through and played better in SF/F I agree. Not ATG level but fully respectable, perhaps on par with peak AO Murray (Wawrinka is peaker of course).

True enough he never got an easy 4R hence six losses at that stage.
He had hip pain in both the Nadal and Nalbandian matches so his level was up and down. If Nalbandian can push peak Fed to four tight ones beating him in five with hip pain isn't bad no? He was consistently good to great in the SF/F, would put those rounds up there with Murray's best. His earlier rounds had some clear dips for sure.

Shame he got Nadal/Nalbandian instead of Kukushkin/Baby Nishikori or drew Federer/Nalbandian instead of Simon/Chardy or Aynaoui/Roddick instead of Melzer/Dolgopolov.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
He had hip pain in both the Nadal and Nalbandian matches so his level was up and down. If Nalbandian can push peak Fed to four tight ones beating him in five with hip pain isn't bad no? He was consistently good to great in the SF/F, would put those rounds up there with Murray's best. His earlier rounds had some clear dips for sure.

Shame he got Nadal/Nalbandian instead of Kukushkin/Baby Nishikori or drew Federer/Nalbandian instead of Simon/Chardy or Aynaoui/Roddick instead of Melzer/Dolgopolov.
Yeah, in hindsight, 2005 Hewitt had a tougher AO draw than Murray ever had.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Roddick looked sluggish in that match, even in the very early 2005. He was nowhere near the same player comparing to 2 years before that. Still should have pushed that match to 5th set at least.
Yeah, he was definitely flat footed - especially compared to the classic in 2003. Kinda weird because in the summer of 06 he was back moving very well.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Ok, fair enough. Still think it was a match Roddick could have won. If he had won the second or third set, I don't think Hewitt could have come back.
The 2nd set was super high quality from both, Hewitt just mentally stronger and better off the ground.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
Heck, in 2009 he was moving better too. Kinda weird.
Not sure if he put on more weight or what. Would love to sit down with Arod and compare the two matches back to back and ask him why his movement was so different. The guy was a good athlete and quick in his youth.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Yeah, he was definitely flat footed - especially compared to the classic in 2003. Kinda weird because in the summer of 06 he was back moving very well.
On an unrelated note, I think Roddick fired Gilbert because of all those losses to Hewitt and Federer. Wimb 2004, Toronto 2004, YEC 2004, AO 2005 and IW 2005 probably sent Roddick over the edge. Especially, losses 1, 3, 4 and 5.
 

RelentlessAttack

Hall of Fame
In 04 against Hewitt I think it was, Nadal was crushing aggressive forehands and lost easily. He and Toni made the change to the buggy whip and grind it out style because it worked better against the field, they’ve said as much in the past
 

Sabrina

Professional
On an unrelated note, I think Roddick fired Gilbert because of all those losses to Hewitt and Federer. Wimb 2004, Toronto 2004, YEC 2004, AO 2005 and IW 2005 probably sent Roddick over the edge. Especially, losses 1, 3, 4 and 5.
A-Rod already fired Gilbert at the end of 2004. Probably the biggest mistakes of his career IMO.
 

NatF

Bionic Poster
On an unrelated note, I think Roddick fired Gilbert because of all those losses to Hewitt and Federer. Wimb 2004, Toronto 2004, YEC 2004, AO 2005 and IW 2005 probably sent Roddick over the edge. Especially, losses 1, 3, 4 and 5.
Hewitt eviscerated Roddick at the YEC, that too after Roddick had some very good wins over Henman and Safin, think Hewitt won like 20 straight points or something to close breaking Roddick multiple times to love.
 
Top