So this is Djokovic's draw to the final of the 2016 US Open

Do you think the lack of court time will hurt Novak at all? He looks to be playing pretty well now and rest never hurts but he certainly hasn't got the reps he usually would have by this point in a slam. If he can get through his SF match, Monfils might not be a bad opponent. Novak will be certain to hit a ton of balls against Gael.
 
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D.Nalby12 said:
Very unlucky. The lack of enough match practice might cost Djokovic this Slam. Retirements/WO are good when you get one in a tournament facing a very brutal draw but when one make semis of the Slam playing just 8 full sets, you know it's disaster. Even bigger disaster in this case as Djokovic desperately needs match practice coming back from injury.
Click to expand...
is this some kind of joke?? lol

The lack of match practice only matters when a dangerous opponent is on the horizon. Guru is not that and Djokovic will have plenty for the final where there is a 50% chance the opponent rolls over anyways.
 
Clearly, Djokovic has had an enormous amount of luck at the 2016 US Open, with all these opponents pulling out and with his most dangerous opponents ending up on the bottom half of the draw fighting each other while he strolls through to the semis and probably the final. (Even if, as @Meles says, Monfils really is better on hard courts right now than are Del Potro or Nishikori, he's almost certainly less dangerous to Djokovic, as the head to head record will show).

But the moment we think carefully and make precise decisions, we will see that ONE WEAK DRAW that was made weak largely by injuries is not at all the same thing as a weak era. It's at best very insignificant evidence of weakness in the era.
 
helterskelter said:
Clearly, Djokovic has had an enormous amount of luck at the 2016 US Open, with all these opponents pulling out and with his most dangerous opponents ending up on the bottom half of the draw fighting each other while he strolls through to the semis and probably the final. (Even if, as @Meles says, Monfils really is better on hard courts right now than are Del Potro or Nishikori, he's almost certainly less dangerous to Djokovic, as the head to head record will show).

But the moment we think carefully and make precise decisions, we will see that ONE WEAK DRAW that was made weak largely by injuries is not at all the same thing as a weak era. It's at best very insignificant evidence of weakness in the era.
Click to expand...
Guru's been fairly competitive when rested.
 
helterskelter said:
Clearly, Djokovic has had an enormous amount of luck at the 2016 US Open, with all these opponents pulling out and with his most dangerous opponents ending up on the bottom half of the draw fighting each other while he strolls through to the semis and probably the final. (Even if, as @Meles says, Monfils really is better on hard courts right now than are Del Potro or Nishikori, he's almost certainly less dangerous to Djokovic, as the head to head record will show).

But the moment we think carefully and make precise decisions, we will see that ONE WEAK DRAW that was made weak largely by injuries is not at all the same thing as a weak era. It's at best very insignificant evidence of weakness in the era.
Click to expand...
what was his FO draw or his USO/AO draws last year then?
 
metsman said:
what was his FO draw or his USO/AO draws last year then?
Click to expand...

They were not part of his draw at the 2016 US Open and so different evidence! o_O

But I think his draw at the 2015 Australian Open was perfectly respectable. He was also definitely lucky that Cilic was below par in the 2015 US Open semis, but no Slam run in which Federer is the final opponent is easy. The draw at Roland Garros this year was certainly not that tough.
 
helterskelter said:
Clearly, Djokovic has had an enormous amount of luck at the 2016 US Open, with all these opponents pulling out and with his most dangerous opponents ending up on the bottom half of the draw fighting each other while he strolls through to the semis and probably the final. (Even if, as @Meles says, Monfils really is better on hard courts right now than are Del Potro or Nishikori, he's almost certainly less dangerous to Djokovic, as the head to head record will show).

But the moment we think carefully and make precise decisions, we will see that ONE WEAK DRAW that was made weak largely by injuries is not at all the same thing as a weak era. It's at best very insignificant evidence of weakness in the era.
Click to expand...
Of course. Actually, for once that Novak is lucky, I find that pretty funny. He used to always have the toughest draws. Fed had more than his share of cream puffs. Payback time ha ha.
Not sure Novak himself considers it lucky though. I suspect he'd prefer to play full matches to get into the thick of things. Watching cartoons with his son instead, he probably even forgets he's in the middle of a slam! Thank God for Edmund and Janowicz (and Janowicz did qualify as a tricky first round).
 
helterskelter said:
They were not part of his draw at the 2016 US Open and so different evidence! o_O

But I think his draw at the 2015 Australian Open was perfectly respectable. He was also definitely lucky that Cilic was below par in the 2015 US Open semis, but no Slam run in which Federer is the final opponent is easy. The draw at Roland Garros this year was certainly not that tough.
Click to expand...

Just a correction. Cilic was injured at last year's USO SF. He still showed up though.
 
CYGS said:
To be honest, even if it's Nadal, Murray, Del Potro, etc all the way, you would still find a way to call it weak. There's just no way to please you. #hatersgonnahate
Click to expand...

When you say something really good, u get a QFT (quoted for truth!)
 
Still has to beat Monfils and Ninja/Murray.

Healthy Nadal and 2015 Fed would still have been wrecked by Djoker's level tonight so, none of this really means anything.
 
I'm usually not one for agreeing with easy/hard draws, most of the time it's just sour grapes.

But this time... yeah, there's no way to spin it. The first round against a guy who hasn't played since January is ok, first rounds for top players are often unremarkable. But then three retirements out of 4 matches! And then a semifinal against a player like Monfils! This might be the easiest draw I have ever seen to a slam final for anybody.

Well, you play the draw you get, I suppose.
 
vive le beau jeu ! said:
lol... you've got to be kidding... 2 retirements and a WO in 5 matches ?!

monfils won't sleep well... :confused:
Click to expand...

Djokovic: "I have been enjoying my spare time, for sure, you know, making dolls with Stephan, playing with them, being a parent is the most wonderful gift"

voodoo-o.gif
 
Draw is:
A recently injured Polish dude who played his first ATP match in 2016 at the First round of the US Open lol
Walkover
Colonel injured
Edmug
JWT injured
 
To anyone thinking the lack of match practise has hidered him, he's come out and said all these retirements are just what he needs to get the rest and feel in peak performance mode. So yeah, he's basically just cruised to the final unless Monfils comes out absolutely firing (which i doubt) and then he plays a player who has had 2 tough matches in a row no matter which way it gets spun. All 4 players in the bottom half are either in form or play well on this surface.

Djokovic's draw is an absolute joke and really is a stamp on weak era that only 2 fairly low ranked players could withstand a full match with him. Monfils will probably retire too and really put this into full joke territory. Novak should wear a Luigi cap in the final since he too can win doing absolutely nothing.
 
Terenigma said:
To anyone thinking the lack of match practise has hidered him, he's come out and said all these retirements are just what he needs to get the rest and feel in peak performance mode. So yeah, he's basically just cruised to the final unless Monfils comes out absolutely firing (which i doubt) and then he plays a player who has had 2 tough matches in a row no matter which way it gets spun. All 4 players in the bottom half are either in form or play well on this surface.

Djokovic's draw is an absolute joke and really is a stamp on weak era that only 2 fairly low ranked players could withstand a full match with him. Monfils will probably retire too and really put this into full joke territory. Novak should wear a Luigi cap in the final since he too can win doing absolutely nothing.
Click to expand...

I almost wish his SF and F opponents would also retire injured so at least we don't have to see his celebrations. This is an absolute travesty! As though the era wasn't weak enough, players can't even be bothered to play.

Ironic that a guy who doesn't think women should be paid the same as men will be paid the same as the WTA winner for playing way less matches. This sucks big time. Hope the ATP is loving this clown show.:rolleyes:
 
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I always thought the guy deserves a break and an easy draw. By break I didn't mean reaching final stages while hardly playing though.
 
CYGS said:
To be honest, even if it's Nadal, Murray, Del Potro, etc all the way, you would still find a way to call it weak. There's just no way to please you. #hatersgonnahate
Click to expand...

Errr no. Murray has a much tougher draw. Djokovic has been EXTREMELY.............and I mean EXTREMELY lucky!
 
The bottom half is beat up. Both JMDP and Stan took painkillers early in their match last night that went to 5 sets. Stan vs Kei is quite likely to be another long physical match. Both of them are quite injury prone and neither has challenged Djoker in a long time. Same with Monfils. I wouldn't be surprised if Djokers next two matches are routine affairs with maybe even another retirement thrown in.
 
tennis_pro said:
1st round - Janowicz who played like 1 match all season (in January) and had energy for 1,5 hours and couldn't even take advantage of Djokovic serving <100 mph 1st serves for 2 sets
2nd round - a W/O from Vesely
3rd round - a retirement from Youzhny at 4-2 in the 1st set
4th round - Kyle Edmund (who?)
QF - an injured Tsonga (who retired after 2 sets)
SF - Monfils

Compared to Murray who faced a zoning Lorenzi which took some energy from Murray, Dimitrov in the 4th round, Nishikori in the QF, Wawrinka or Del Potro in the SF.
Click to expand...

I would wait until i see Djokovic wins the whole thing and confirm this lack of matches would not affect but
I can not recall this kind of things happened in tennis history.

I mean except the time(like 1800s?) when previous champion only need to play 1 final to defend his/her title ????
 
LOLOLOLOLOL

* First, look at this table and find Federer

a1ea0d503539551

* Second, look above Federer and find Djokovic 4 times
* Third, shut the **** up
:p


PS. In 2016 Noval already have Feds record (19 top 10 victories), and that is his 6st year to do that or beat that. And he equalized his record (again!) in 7th month, with 1 slam 3 masters and WTF to go!
So again shut the **** up :cool:



Or better, please continue, your but hurt is sooo amusing ;)
 
beard said:
LOLOLOLOLOL

* First, look at this table and find Federer

a1ea0d503539551

* Second, look above Federer and find Djokovic 4 times
* Third, shut the **** up
:p


PS. In 2016 Noval already have Feds record (19 top 10 victories), and that is his 6st year to do that or beat that. And he equalized his record (again!) in 7th month, with 1 slam 3 masters and WTF to go!
So again shut the **** up :cool:



Or better, please continue, your but hurt is sooo amusing ;)
Click to expand...
u
 
beard said:
LOLOLOLOLOL

* First, look at this table and find Federer

a1ea0d503539551

* Second, look above Federer and find Djokovic 4 times
* Third, shut the **** up
:p


PS. In 2016 Noval already have Feds record (19 top 10 victories), and that is his 6st year to do that or beat that. And he equalized his record (again!) in 7th month, with 1 slam 3 masters and WTF to go!
So again shut the **** up :cool:



Or better, please continue, your but hurt is sooo amusing ;)
Click to expand...

2010-2015 we had harmless players like Berdych, Ferrer and Gasquet constantly on the top 10 and constantly being beaten by Djokovic.

The thins is, the very fact they remained in the top 10 for so long is a strong evidence of the weakness of the new generation.
 
beard said:
LOLOLOLOLOL

* First, look at this table and find Federer

a1ea0d503539551

* Second, look above Federer and find Djokovic 4 times
* Third, shut the **** up
:p


PS. In 2016 Noval already have Feds record (19 top 10 victories), and that is his 6st year to do that or beat that. And he equalized his record (again!) in 7th month, with 1 slam 3 masters and WTF to go!
So again shut the **** up :cool:



Or better, please continue, your but hurt is sooo amusing ;)
Click to expand...
Amazing from Novak. I agree that he is way more dominant over the tour than Federer has ever been if only because Fed could never really solve his Nadal problem.
That chart is awesome, it shows how Fed's 2006 was partly due to relative inconsistency of top 10 and padding his resume with lesser events (packed with lower ranked players).
Novak did his best season ever with almost ONLY tier 1 events and mostly by battling the top guys. Absolutely remarkable. One cannot emphasize enough how Fed's prime- although excellent- is somewhat overrated mostly through the prism of enormous media hype.
 
StanTheMan said:
2010-2015 we had harmless players like Berdych, Ferrer and Gasquet constantly on the top 10 and constantly being beaten by Djokovic.

The thins is, the very fact they remained in the top 10 for so long is a strong evidence of the weakness of the new generation.
Click to expand...
Nonsense. Beating top 10 is better than not beating them regardless of level.
 
veroniquem said:
Amazing from Novak. I agree that he is way more dominant over the tour than Federer has ever been if only because Fed could never really solve his Nadal problem.
That chart is awesome, it shows how Fed's 2006 was partly due to relative inconsistency of top 10 and padding his resume with lesser events (packed with lower ranked players).
Novak did his best season ever with almost ONLY tier 1 events and mostly by battling the top guys. Absolutely remarkable. One cannot emphasize enough how Fed's prime- although excellent- is somewhat overrated mostly through the prism of enormous media hype.
Click to expand...

Never change Vero! :rolleyes:

Do you think 100 years from now anybody will care? What matters most is the slam count and weeks @ #1. If Djokovic is so dominant and fantastic he will surpass both those records. If he doesn't, Fed will be seen as greater. It's really a simple concept.
 
cc0509 said:
Never change Vero! :rolleyes:

Do you think 100 years from now anybody will care? What matters most is the slam count and weeks @ #1. If Djokovic is so dominant and fantastic he will surpass both those records. If he doesn't, Fed will be seen as greater. It's really a simple concept.
Click to expand...
Agreed but most Federer fans (not you) don't see it that way. They have already made their allowances for the (extremely unlikely) occurrence that Djokovic would surpass Federer's slam count (I do think he should be able to cross the weeks at #1 though) by their regular, nonstop weak era blabbering that you see, this thread being another example. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't!
 
@cc
you should say that to Fed fanboys that trash Novaks draw, while he already broken theirs idol all time record, lol ...
And he is broking it every f....n year
 
Just to give you an idea of how extraordinary Djoko's perf is and how overrated Fed's dominance has been, I've compiled the # of wins over top 8 players per season for each of the #1: Djoko, Fed, Nadal. In parenthesis I list the events where they beat more than 1 top 8 player. I ranked the 6 seasons with most wins for each player:

Djokovic:
1- 2015: 28 (AO, IW, Miami, MC, Rome, RG, Beijing, Paris, WTF)
2- 2012: 22 (AO, Miami, Rome, RG, USO, Shanghai, WTF)
3- 2011: 20 (AO, Dubai, IW, Madrid, Rome, Canada, USO)
4- 2013: 19 (AO, Dubai, W, Paris, WTF)
5- 2016: 16 (Doha, AO, Miami, Madrid, Rome, RG, Canada)- partial tally : Doha to Canada only
6- 2014: 14 (Miami, Rome, Paris, WTF)

Federer:
1- 2004: 15 (AO, Hamburg, USO, WTF)
2- 2006: 15 (USO, WTF)
3- 2010: 14 (AO, Canada, Shanghai, WTF)
4- 2007: 13 (AO, USO, WTF)
5- 2014: 13 (Dubai, Cincy, WTF)
6- 2015: 13 (Cincy, WTF)

Nadal:
1- 2013: 21 (IW, Rome, RG, Cincy, WTF)
2- 2009: 13 (AO, IW, MC, Madrid, Rome)
3- 2008: 13 (MC, Hamburg, RG, Queen's)
4- 2011: 13 (Miami, MC, RG)
5- 2012: 11 (AO, Barcelona, Rome, RG)
6- 2007: 11 (Rome, RG, WTF)


What does it mean?
- that in the year that was marketed to us as the best season ever ( 2006), Fed beat fewer top 8 players than Djoko did in about half the 2016 season!!!!!!!! It also means that in 2006, Fed had to defeat several top 8 in only 2 events!!!!!! 2!!! How ridiculous is that? In half the 2016 season, Djoko had to do that in already 7 events!!!! (so for most of his titles in 2006, Fed beat either 1 or 0) Hello!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How one discovers that the 2006 GOAT season was actually manufactured out of weakness of field and puff draws. The maximum events in a season where Fed has beaten several top 8 is 4!!! In 2015, Djoko beat several top 8 in 9 events! 9! That's more than twice as many as ANY Fed season :eek: And how about 2005? 2005 doesn't even make the Fed list. Fed had fewer wins vs top 8 in 2005 than he did in 2014 and 2015. Talk about weak era and lack of consistent competition at the top!
Nadal had more wins over top 8 in 2013 than Fed ever had in a single season but Nadal's 2010 didn't make the list either, lots of weak draws that year. Fun facts: in 2008, Rafa had more top opponents to beat in Queen's than at W! Last time Rafa beat a top 8 at W was 2011 and it was... title holder Murray. Surprisingly, Rafa beat only 4 top 8 in 2005, his breakthrough year. He won a lot of titles that year but not all big ones and some of the big ones vs lesser opponents.
The first top 8 Nadal defeated in his career was Albert Costa ranked 7 in (where else?) MC. Nadal was only 16 (2003)
Fed's 1st top 8 win was in Marseille (indoor): Moya #5. Fed was 17 (1999). Djoko was a late bloomer, had to wait until W 2006 (19 years old) for his first: Robredo #8. How peculiar that his first big win happened on grass! Now if anyone has a theory as to why all of them had their first big win over Spaniards (rather than... French for instance :oops:), I'd be curious to read it. ;)

ETA: in 2016, Djoko has had 16 wins over top 8, Murray 9, Nadal 4 and Fed 1 (Fed's lone win was vs Berdych- who else :))
ETA2: notice that Fed's 1st top 8 win happened in a 250, Nadal's in a master and Djoko's in a slam.
ETA3: Djoko beat 3 top 8 in 11 events (AO 2011, 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016, Rome 2011, 2015, Canada 2007 (the legendary 1, 2, 3 combo), Paris 2013, 2015, WTF 2008) and more than 3 in WTF 2012, 2013, 2014 and 2015. Fed - insanely- did it only in 4 events!!! (Madrid 2009, 2012, USO 2004, 2007). He beat more than 3 in 8 WTF: 2003,2004, 2006, 2007, 2010, 2011, 2014, 2015. Nadal did it in 9 events (IW 2009, 2013, MC 2008, Rome 2007, 2012, 2013, RG 2011, 2014, WTF 2015) and more than 3 in WTF 2010 and 2013.
 
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Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil said:
To be fair, even when he was winning all of these Majors/Masters recently by beating several top 10 players along the way, some of you guys were saying that he is being gifted titles.

Now you can't say you weren't asking for this scenario to happen.
Click to expand...

Last year, he he had 31 top 10 wins wich was a record for a season. Was the same talk anyways.

People are just butthurt that is the problem.
 
veroniquem said:
Just to give you an idea of how extraordinary Djoko's perf is and how overrated Fed's dominance has been, I've compiled the # of wins over top 8 players per season for each of the #1: Djoko, Fed, Nadal. In parenthesis I list the events where they beat more than 1 top 8 player. I ranked the 6 seasons with most wins for each player:

Djokovic:
1- 2015: 28 (AO, IW, Miami, MC, Rome, RG, Beijing, Paris, WTF)
2- 2012: 22 (AO, Miami, Rome, RG, USO, Shanghai, WTF)
3- 2011: 20 (AO, Dubai, IW, Madrid, Rome, Canada, USO)
4- 2013: 19 (AO, Dubai, W, Paris, WTF)
5- 2016: 16 (Doha, AO, Miami, Madrid, Rome, RG, Canada)- partial tally : Doha to Canada only
6- 2014: 14 (Miami, Rome, Paris, WTF)

Federer:
1- 2004: 15 (AO, Hamburg, USO, WTF)
2- 2006: 15 (USO, WTF)
3- 2010: 14 (AO, Canada, Shanghai, WTF)
4- 2007: 13 (AO, USO, WTF)
5- 2014: 13 (Dubai, Cincy, WTF)
6- 2015: 13 (Cincy, WTF)

Nadal:
1- 2013: 21 (IW, Rome, RG, Cincy, WTF)
2- 2009: 13 (AO, IW, MC, Madrid, Rome)
3- 2008: 13 (MC, Hamburg, RG, Queen's)
4- 2011: 13 (Miami, MC, RG)
5- 2012: 11 (AO, Barcelona, Rome, RG)
6- 2007: 11 (Rome, RG, WTF)


What does it mean?
- that in the year that was marketed to us as the best season ever ( 2006), Fed beat fewer top 8 players than Djoko did in about half the 2016 season!!!!!!!! It also means that in 2006, Fed had to defeat several top 8 in only 2 events!!!!!! 2!!! How ridiculous is that? In half the 2016 season, Djoko had to do that in already 7 events!!!! (so for most of his titles in 2006, Fed beat either 1 or 0) Hello!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How one discovers that the 2006 GOAT season was actually manufactured out of weakness of field and puff draws. The maximum events in a season where Fed has beaten several top 8 is 4!!! In 2015, Djoko beat several top 8 in 9 events! 9! That's more than twice as many as ANY Fed season :eek: And how about 2005? 2005 doesn't even make the Fed list. Fed had fewer wins vs top 8 in 2005 than he did in 2014 and 2015. Talk about weak era and lack of consistent competition at the top!
Nadal had more wins over top 8 in 2013 than Fed ever had in a single season but Nadal's 2010 didn't make the list either, lots of weak draws that year. Fun facts: in 2008, Rafa had more top opponents to beat in Queen's than at W! Last time Rafa beat a top 8 at W was 2011 and it was... title holder Murray. Surprisingly, Rafa beat only 4 top 8 in 2005, his breakthrough year. He won a lot of titles that year but not all big ones and some of the big ones vs lesser opponents.
The first top 8 Nadal defeated in his career was Albert Costa ranked 7 in (where else?) MC. Nadal was only 16 (2003)
Fed's 1st top 8 win was in Marseille (indoor): Moya #5. Fed was 17 (1999). Djoko was a late bloomer, had to wait until W 2006 (19 years old) for his first: Robredo #8. How peculiar that his first big win happened on grass! Now if anyone has a theory as to why all of them had their first big win over Spaniards (rather than... French for instance :oops:), I'd be curious to read it. ;)

ETA: in 2016, Djoko has had 16 wins over top 8, Murray 9, Nadal 4 and Fed 1 (Fed's lone win was vs Berdych- who else :))
ETA2: notice that Fed's 1st top 8 win happened in a 250, Nadal's in a master and Djoko's in a slam.
ETA3: Djoko beat 3 top 8 in 11 events (AO 2011, 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016, Rome 2011, 2015, Canada 2007 (the legendary 1, 2, 3 combo), Paris 2013, 2015, WTF 2008) and more than 3 in WTF 2012, 2013, 2014 and 2015. Fed - insanely- did it only in 4 events!!! (Madrid 2009, 2012, USO 2004, 2007). He beat more than 3 in 8 WTF: 2003,2004, 2006, 2007, 2010, 2011, 2014, 2015. Nadal did it in 9 events (IW 2009, 2013, MC 2008, Rome 2007, 2012, 2013, RG 2011, 2014, WTF 2015) and more than 3 in WTF 2010 and 2013.
Click to expand...
GOAT WE discussion post!
End of all Weak Eras discussions! Proof is and lack of Fedfanstards counterarguments (don't blame them, impossible to argue with).
This post goes to bookmarks and will be display in every WE discussion.
 
veroniquem said:
Amazing from Novak. I agree that he is way more dominant over the tour than Federer has ever been if only because Fed could never really solve his Nadal problem.
That chart is awesome, it shows how Fed's 2006 was partly due to relative inconsistency of top 10 and padding his resume with lesser events (packed with lower ranked players).
Novak did his best season ever with almost ONLY tier 1 events and mostly by battling the top guys. Absolutely remarkable. One cannot emphasize enough how Fed's prime- although excellent- is somewhat overrated mostly through the prism of enormous media hype.
Click to expand...
The top 10 now is much more consistent than a decade ago.
 
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