So what now is the current 'order' in tennis?

D

Danny_G13

Rookie
It's patently clear to anyone with eyes the 2004-2009 domination of slams by Federer and Nadal is over. These two are no longer the marquee players of tennis, with Nadal's current predicament bewildering in particular.

Their time has come, and gone. Especially Federer. Things are changing.

Monday's new rankings will see the top 2 continuing to be Djokovic then Murray, followed by the bewildering sight of David Ferrer in third followed by former giants of the game, aforementioned Nadal in 4th and Federer in 5th.

It's also pretty clear to see that the past 5 slam finals have all featured either both Djokovic and Murray, or Djokovic OR Murray. Nadal in one, Federer in the other.

With Federer on the slide and Nadal continuing to be difficult to judge, there is a space for one, maybe 2 bright new things to have an impact in slams. Del Potro could well be one (despite his slam and one semi, he's never lived up to the potential, not helped by the injury), Dimitrov could be another and there might even be space for a Cilic or Raonic.

But it seems to me, still overjoyed btw at Murray realising his dream, that the 'big 4' is no longer. It's a big 2 now. Murray broke INTO the big 4 when he won the US Open, and while Nadal claimed another RG and some clay tournaments, his performance on hard is up for debate while he is now horrendous on grass and he's arguably slid out of it. Ditto Federer, for clear reasons.

There is space for someone to break into the top 5 properly.

I know this was a bit of a rambling mess, but I hope there's a semblance of a coherent point somewhere.
 
Nadal is still the one to beat on clay, and Murray is no threat whatsoever to him there, but besides that it seems Djokovic and Murray are almost the big 2 and the ones to beat on all other surfaces. I guess for now we put Nadal in with them, but we will see how he performs the rest of this year and early next. Federer is definitely not on a level with those three anymore, he is more on a level with Ferrer and Del Potro at the moment. Berdych and Tsonga are a further level down from those.
 
The order remains more or less same. Djoker, Rafa, Murray all are defending champions of Slams. Despite all the criticism Roger is the next best. There are lot of promising young players like Janowicz's but until they actually win something, it means zilch.
David Ferrer will rake up lots of points and will be there but unlikely to win a Slam.
 
Djokovic is still the best in the world by far. He reached the final on his worst surface playing badly and took the clay GOAT to five sets on home territory. I'd say Nadal is still second, because he has just played phenomenally, with the exception of the Wimbledon loss. Murray would be third and Federer fourth, although Federer in particular is capable of beating anyone above.
 
rosewallGOAT said:
Nadal is still the one to beat on clay, and Murray is no threat whatsoever to him there, but besides that it seems Djokovic and Murray are almost the big 2 and the ones to beat on all other surfaces. I guess for now we put Nadal in with them, but we will see how he performs the rest of this year and early next. Federer is definitely not on a level with those three anymore, he is more on a level with Ferrer and Del Potro at the moment. Berdych and Tsonga are a further level down from those.
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I agree with you up until the Federer part. I think Delpo right now is superior to Fed, and certainly Jo Tsonga can get there too.
 
firepanda said:
Djokovic is still the best in the world by far. He reached the final on his worst surface playing badly and took the clay GOAT to five sets on home territory. I'd say Nadal is still second, because he has just played phenomenally, with the exception of the Wimbledon loss. Murray would be third and Federer fourth, although Federer in particular is capable of beating anyone above.
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Djokovic by far :lol:
 
Big 2 my foot. Rafa has won 7 out of 10 tournaments this year including on hard courts. Murray has played well on grass but barely won a match on clay and was very inconsistent on hard courts. The fact is Rafa is still the best player on clay and Novak is the best hard court player. Then come the rest.
 
Danny_G13 said:
It's patently clear to anyone with eyes the 2004-2009 domination of slams by Federer and Nadal is over. These two are no longer the marquee players of tennis, with Nadal's current predicament bewildering in particular.

Their time has come, and gone. Especially Federer. Things are changing.

Monday's new rankings will see the top 2 continuing to be Djokovic then Murray, followed by the bewildering sight of David Ferrer in third followed by former giants of the game, aforementioned Nadal in 4th and Federer in 5th.

It's also pretty clear to see that the past 5 slam finals have all featured either both Djokovic and Murray, or Djokovic OR Murray. Nadal in one, Federer in the other.

With Federer on the slide and Nadal continuing to be difficult to judge, there is a space for one, maybe 2 bright new things to have an impact in slams. Del Potro could well be one (despite his slam and one semi, he's never lived up to the potential, not helped by the injury), Dimitrov could be another and there might even be space for a Cilic or Raonic.

But it seems to me, still overjoyed btw at Murray realising his dream, that the 'big 4' is no longer. It's a big 2 now. Murray broke INTO the big 4 when he won the US Open, and while Nadal claimed another RG and some clay tournaments, his performance on hard is up for debate while he is now horrendous on grass and he's arguably slid out of it. Ditto Federer, for clear reasons.

There is space for someone to break into the top 5 properly.

I know this was a bit of a rambling mess, but I hope there's a semblance of a coherent point somewhere.
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Yes your post was a bit of a mess. You write Rafa off after one grass loss when he was unfit and out of practice on the surface, conveniently forgetting he had won 7 of 9 tournaments previously, including on hard courts.
 
I think John McEnroe was right on the money when he said there is a "changing of the guard" going on, although his comments on these matters should generally be taken with a grain of salt.

The most obviously alarming turn of events in recent months was the early upsets of Nadal and Federer in this tournament, where they have previously posted great results. This shows that both players are starting to show significantly more weakness.

With Murray and Djokovic, you have a situation where neither guy is dominant over the other, although with Wimbledon and the Olympics, Murray has begun to cement his reputation as the premier grass player of the day.

When it comes to hard court, it has never been closer at the US Open and Australian Open than Murray and Djokovic.

While this year, Nadal has still proved that he is the true king of clay.

So I think out of the 4 Grand Slam tournaments, Murray holds the edge in dominance based on his superior play on grass, while having hard court power at par with Djokovic.

One wild card is Nadal, because if his physical abilities decline, then Djokovic is the next player to claim dominance on clay. But that scenario must happen first in order for Djokovic to gain the upper hand.

Another wild card is developing players like Del Potro or Janowicz, who posted great results this tournament. These guys both have opportunities to move quickly up the ladder, but the results must show first before we can make any judgments.
 
Looks like Nadal will continue to win on clay. Murray seems to be the best on grass by a decent margin, whilst Djokovic and Murray will probably share the next few hard court majors, as they have done over the last year.
 
All four of the big four are now capable of winning a major. That does make things interesting and unpredictable. This Wimbledon title I think is a huge breakthrough for Murray. You can try and explain away one major for him, but now Murray has won Wimbledon, the granddaddy of them all. He currently holds the Wimbledon and U.S. Open titles and is a Olympic gold medalist. Suddenly, he looks to be a real contender for the #1 ranking. He's a threat to anyone at the majors. Let's face it, Murray looked very fit in this final, on a very hot day. I know Djokovic played a tough semifinal, but Murray just outclassed Djokovic in the match. Nadal will continue being a threat, as will Djokovic and Federer in my opinion. Yet, the surface will make a difference of course, and all these guys will go through ups and downs, but I do not think you count any of them out in terms of winning majors in the future. As for the rest you have players like Berdych, Del Potro, Janowicz, Ferrer, Tsonga, Raonic, Dmitrov, Gasquet, Isner, Dolgopolov, Almagro, and Cilic all trying to go deep at the majors.
 
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Novak and Murray are on top on hard, Murray has cemented himself as one of the best, if not the best, grasscourter currently. Nadal still owns clay, and is a question mark on other surfaces. Fed is a wildcard, no telling if his play will improve or decline.
 
I am stoked to see Murray breakthrough. Makes it that much harder now for Nadal to break Petes 14 slams and Rogers 17. Those records are both looking increasingly safe.
 
I don't see a changing of the guard. Its a 3-men race now, and it looks open regarding the year end nr. 1. Djokovic looks to be the most consistent, but he lacks the final push or final kick in the last rounds of a major, a bit like Lendl in his prime. I stated it long before, Djoker looks too defensive to me, and this costs and will cost him more big titles. Murray had made big strides in his work with Lendl, and since his big Olympic win he has gained the confidence for the big finals. The best player imo still is Nadal, but he has to deal with physical problems.
Its interesting, that the physical game takes its toll, and players have to be selective in their scheduling. Freshness and match fitness are gaining importance.Two players who did very well at Wimbledon, Murray and Delpo had left out Paris, Nadal, who won everything in sight on the clay tour, wasn't a factor on grass. I hope that some new faces do emerge, like Janowicz, with more impetus on the serve and volley pattern, and the vertical game. There are some signs lately. I hope that coaches will train it more.
 
1) Federer - REBORN
2) Rafa - with no injuries
3) Djokovic - if he starts being a little more aggressive.
4) Jerzy - "the new Safin".
5) Murray - one of the greatest pushers in history.
6) Ferrer - killer of the "rest of the tour".
7) The rest - for now.
 
pds999 said:
Yes your post was a bit of a mess. You write Rafa off after one grass loss when he was unfit and out of practice on the surface, conveniently forgetting he had won 7 of 9 tournaments previously, including on hard courts.
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I didn't conveniently forget it, I just observed that tennis is not exclusively played on clay, he only won one HC tournament this year. So kindly exclude the plural. As for one grass lost this year - what's your excuse for his capitulation to Rosol last year? And Murray won on Queens despite being out of action for a month so your excuse for Nadal seems exactly that?
 
Manus Domini said:
Wtf? Not Jerzy? You know, the rookie who's actually made it to SFs? And the one who almost beat the current #2?
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Well he was excellent in his first set but had no answer for Murray apart from complaining about the lack of light. 'Almost beat' is a bit OTT.

He has potential but I think it a bit ridiculous to prime him for a bright future in the game after one exceptional tournament.

I would also argue 'rookie' is a slight piece of melodrama - he's 22 and turned professional 6 years ago. Plenty of time to have made more impact. Murray made US Open final within one year of turning pro. And beat Nadal on his way to the final.
 
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