Soderling agrees with Nadal : Peak Djokovic better than Peak Federer

Checkmate

Checkmate

Legend
Playing against Djokovic, Nadal, I could go off the court and feel I played well.

“But against Roger, he just made me play bad. Hm…but if they are both at the top, I think Novak would beat Roger more times than the opposite.

“He moved so well, got so many balls back. That’s really tough for Roger because he might play too fast,he would panic a little bit. But it’s really tough to say.”

Novak-Djokovic-offered-money-to-throw-match.jpg



https://www.express.co.uk/sport/ten...ic-Roger-Federer-Robin-Soderling-Rafael-Nadal
 
It's nice to see other pros rate Djokovic that highly, even during a slump. It's normal to hype up someone who is dominating in the given moment but it looks like this guy has left a very long if not a permanent mark on the game. As a longtime fan of Djokovic, I am pleased to see that.Stunning game and achievements while competing with arguably two greatest players ever, how good is that?!

Nice kit. Uniqlo rarely disappointed.
 
Well objectively Novak is the only one in recent years holding all slams at a time. So over an extended period of time his high level is scarily consistent. Feds prime level is equally high but he ran into prime Nadal on clay every year. However, no excuses.

But if you talk about the highest level of tennis played in a big tournament or big match, I don’t know how Novak can be view as higher. 2011RG SF was on a surface least favorable to Fed and Fed by any means physically was not prime. They split the two five setters in Djokovic peak year of 2011 tells us they are at least equal in peak play.
 
I don't normally participate in anything that resembles a GOAT debate and no doubt will live to regret this.

I compared the Head-to Heads from three years 2011, 2012 and 2015 as being years when Djoko might be considered to be at his peak and Federer in good form. Results were 4-1, 3-2 and 5-3 in favour of Djokovic. Given that it seems a peak Federer and peak Djoko would come out about even?

I must admit I'd remembered 2011 as being closer than it was, probably due to the French Open victory being such a surprise and the US Open being so close.
 
Hitman said:
I am not saying Djokovic is overtaking Federer, I am stating it is unfair to say Djokovic is seven slams behind without ack that Federer has also played an additional six seasons. That is a lot of slams.
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Career trajectory matters though, and it's not like the gap is not real because both are still playing, it merely isn't the final gap.
 
Rafa the King said:
2011 Nole is one of the peakiest forms of peaks ever. Could you imagine if we could have had 08-09 Rafa, 04-06 Fed and 11 Nole in one season :eek:
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They'd all lose in some respects relative to what they actually did achieve in those years is the most honest way to put it.
 
Playing against Djokovic, Nadal, I could go off the court and feel I played well.

“But against Roger, he just made me play bad. Hm…but if they are both at the top, I think Novak would beat Roger more times than the opposite.

“He moved so well, got so many balls back. That’s really tough for Roger because he might play too fast,he would panic a little bit. But it’s really tough to say.”

--- Ok, so if I apply some math and logic here, this means...

Sod vs Djokodal = Opponent moved well, got balls back , still I played well, feeling good
Sod vs Roger = He "made" me play bad.

Novak > Roger... Uhm sry, what? Math and logic is breaking here.

federer1-1416909843.jpg
 
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SpinToWin said:
Career trajectory matters though, and it's not like the gap is not real because both are still playing, it merely isn't the final gap.
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One thing I have learned about Federer, Nadal and Djokovic, they are too unique and making their own trajectories.
 
ForumMember said:
Not everyone gets to play a series of Gonzales, Roddicks, Bagdatis, Hewitts and so on in their GS finals. Just saying.
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Djokovic actually had his chance to force Murray to remain more like a Hewitt, but he let him win two slam finals against him instead of denying him; he could've let Wawrinka remain an enigmatic Söderling type who only made a couple of slam finals, but he failed to deny him in the three slams Stan won; he could've treated Nishikori like a Baghdatis, but failed to do so.

As close as Fed and Novak are, this is actually the main thing that separates them: Novak failed to truly make his era "weak," even though he dang well had the chance.
 
Sysyphus said:
Djokovic actually had his chance to force Murray to remain more like a Hewitt, but he let him win two slam finals against him instead of denying him; he could've let Wawrinka remain an enigmatic Söderling type who only made a couple of slam finals, but he failed to deny him in the three slams Stan won; he could've treated Nishikori like a Baghdatis, but failed to do so.

As close as Fed and Novak are, this is actually the main thing that separates them: Novak failed to truly make his era "weak," even though he dang well had the chance.
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Thank you, this is why Novak is 7 slams behind Fed.
 
TheAssassin said:
It's nice to see other pros rate Djokovic that highly, even during a slump. It's normal to hype up someone who is dominating in the given moment but it looks like this guy has left a very long if not a permanent mark on the game. As a longtime fan of Djokovic, I am pleased to see that.Stunning game and achievements while competing with arguably two greatest players ever, how good is that?!

Nice kit. Uniqlo rarely disappointed.
Click to expand...
I AGREE! It seems though that Roger will have a much longer near peak level than Novak. Hopefully, Novak will make a strong comeback and win a several more slams before he retires.
 
Hitman said:
I am not saying Djokovic is overtaking Federer, I am stating it is unfair to say Djokovic is seven slams behind without ack that Federer has also played an additional six seasons. That is a lot of slams.
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To be fair, I would say Novak’s offense-defense combo is on par with Fed’s offense with both at their best

But when we talk over their careers and their level in threads like these , the level needs to be over their peak time frame and not just for 3 or 4 consecutive majors . Otherwise one could argue no one is beating Safin.
 
Checkmate said:
Playing against Djokovic, Nadal, I could go off the court and feel I played well.

“But against Roger, he just made me play bad. Hm…but if they are both at the top, I think Novak would beat Roger more times than the opposite.

“He moved so well, got so many balls back. That’s really tough for Roger because he might play too fast,he would panic a little bit. But it’s really tough to say.”

Novak-Djokovic-offered-money-to-throw-match.jpg



https://www.express.co.uk/sport/ten...ic-Roger-Federer-Robin-Soderling-Rafael-Nadal
Click to expand...

Your username is apropos.

This issue is done and dusted; it's all settled science at this point. Beyond obvious.

Checkmate. ;)
 
Jackuar said:
Playing against Djokovic, Nadal, I could go off the court and feel I played well.

“But against Roger, he just made me play bad. Hm…but if they are both at the top, I think Novak would beat Roger more times than the opposite.

“He moved so well, got so many balls back. That’s really tough for Roger because he might play too fast,he would panic a little bit. But it’s really tough to say.”

--- Ok, so if I apply some math and logic here, this means...

Sod vs Djokodal = Opponent moved well, got balls back , still I played well, feeling good
Sod vs Roger = He "made" me play bad.

Novak > Roger... Uhm sry, what? Math and logic is breaking here.
Click to expand...

Well, it's the express, which means, basically, that the content of the article if the opposite of the clickbait title.
 
thrust said:
I AGREE! It seems though that Roger will have a much longer near peak level than Novak. Hopefully, Novak will make a strong comeback and win a several more slams before he retires.
Click to expand...
Yeah, hopefully. Federer almost always delivered on the biggest stages during his prime unlike Djokovic but the 7 Slam difference is a bit harsh when looking strictly at the quality of these two players. They are clearly closer than that IMO.
 
one more is didn't fed reach 10000 career aces by 2017 , Wimbledon
that is one telling state in terms of the what type of game is peaker
fed so many time has just aced his out of tight situations or games or sets and matches at his peak
while novak just had the better game , tennis game , with little to no aces ,
that's what we are looking at , it's definitely peaker
it terms of just stacking up peak game for player A vs peak game for player B
 
I think it's very hard to compare these 2 because their not from the same era. Federer was peaking in 04-07, while Djokovic peaked in 2011-2015 (minus 2013 which was Rafa's year). They both have their strength and weaknesses. I do think both players peak level is definitely above whatever peak Nadal could ever achieve. From an offensive stand point, I don't think anyone can really touch peak Federer, certainly not Djokovic, the opposite could be said from a defensive standpoint, even though Fed is an underrated defender. Now if both players at their respective peak had to meet in a slam on hard court, I think it would be a great match, but I like to think Federer would edge Djokovic only because of the better offense and footwork. Peak Djokovic faced old Fed many times and save for AO 2016, Fed always gave him more than a decent fight even though he's 10+ years past his peak, he still managed to pick a few wins.
 
Tatenda said:
one more is didn't fed reach 10000 career aces by 2017 , Wimbledon
that is one telling state in terms of the what type of game is peaker
fed so many time has just aced his out of tight situations or games or sets and matches at his peak
while novak just had the better game , tennis game , with little to no aces ,
that's what we are looking at , it's definitely peaker
it terms of just stacking up peak game for player A vs peak game for player B
Click to expand...

If only the game of tennis was played without the serve..
 
Djokovic started beating Federer consistently after Fed crossed 31...How can you say that absolute peak Fed would not beat Djokovic handily? Fed at his peak was way more precise consistently painting the lines.
 
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Roddick85 said:
I think it's very hard to compare these 2 because their not from the same era. Federer was peaking in 04-07, while Djokovic peaked in 2011-2015 (minus 2013 which was Rafa's year). They both have their strength and weaknesses. I do think both players peak level is definitely above whatever peak Nadal could ever achieve. From an offensive stand point, I don't think anyone can really touch peak Federer, certainly not Djokovic, the opposite could be said from a defensive standpoint, even though Fed is an underrated defender. Now if both players at their respective peak had to meet in a slam on hard court, I think it would be a great match, but I like to think Federer would edge Djokovic only because of the better offense and footwork. Peak Djokovic faced old Fed many times and save for AO 2016, Fed always gave him more than a decent fight even though he's 10+ years past his peak, he still managed to pick a few wins.
Click to expand...

Great post and agree on everything. Would also like to add that both of them are increadible at "aggressive defending", which is why I think especially Fed's defence is underrated. He simply doesn't defend in the same way that a guy like Nadal does, who has no problem falling 6 feet or more behind the baseline and using his athleticism to make balls no one else can(Djokovic is certainly capable of this too, but generally doesn't prefer it). Fed and Djoker stand up close to the baseline even when being pushed hard and are often able to turn defence into offence in the blink of an eye because of it. This takes insane skill, and I think these two are the best in the game at it.
 
Tatenda said:
one more is didn't fed reach 10000 career aces by 2017 , Wimbledon
that is one telling state in terms of the what type of game is peaker
fed so many time has just aced his out of tight situations or games or sets and matches at his peak
while novak just had the better game , tennis game , with little to no aces ,
that's what we are looking at , it's definitely peaker
it terms of just stacking up peak game for player A vs peak game for player B
Click to expand...
So the only shot a player truly controls, the one coaches spend an inordinate amount of time on - the SERVE - is no longer a vital part, or as you seem to be suggesting, not even a significant part, of the tennis game? I see.

You'll forgive me if I see no particular merit in a player serving so innocuously that he can be described as having a tennis game "with little or no aces"
 
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Roddick85 said:
I think it's very hard to compare these 2 because their not from the same era. Federer was peaking in 04-07, while Djokovic peaked in 2011-2015 (minus 2013 which was Rafa's year). They both have their strength and weaknesses. I do think both players peak level is definitely above whatever peak Nadal could ever achieve.
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That will be why Federer had a losing record against baby Nadal during Federer's "peak period" presumably?
 
Spencer Gore said:
That will be why Federer had a losing record against baby Nadal during Federer's "peak period" presumably?
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Fortunately, with the exception of relatively few early Slams when the previous year's winner played only one game, tennis is played against a field, and not one or two players. Must be a source of considerable chagrin for you. TBH, I'm almost tempted to believe you are the modern DA of John the Baptist, reputed to have cried in the wilderness :D
 
pame said:
So the only shot a player truly controls, the one coaches spend an inordinate amount of time on - the SERVE - is no longer a vital part, or as you seem to be suggesting, not even a significant part, of the tennis game? I see.

You'll forgive me if I see no particular merit in a player serving so innocuously that he can be described as having a tennis game "with little or no aces"
Click to expand...
Who has the peakest game when holding serve, Kalovic, isner, fed, nadal, novak, or murray
 
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