softer, more arm/wrist friendly 360+ radical mp

Jbmgh

Rookie
Hello,

unrated club player here, ohbh, play mostly doubles, like to get points over quickly by getting to the net and being aggressive, I'm no baseline slugger. Maybe 3.5 I'm not sure.

I've been really enjoying the rad 360+ mp since the spring, but I'm getting minor wrist and te pain even with hybrid stringing, handles stuffed full of foam etc.

I play these weighted up to about 330g 32.5cm balance.

Can anyone recommend a more arm friendly frame with similar characteristics? will be sad to move on, but I think its necessary for my tired old man arm.

I tried a blade v7 16x19 and maybe it was over spec, but it felt like a log to swing relative to the radical.

I also think I generally prefer the feel of a stiffer racket as the blade just felt really mushy.

Any recommendations would be great.

Thanks!
 

jdx2112

Hall of Fame
1. try the Auxetic Radical MP -- it's helped a lot who thought the 360+ was too brassy and harsh on the arm
2. if you're playing mostly doubles, I'd consider going down in static weight a bit to see if it's not the vibration but total weight
3. take a look at the Prestige line, the Head Extreme Tour Auxetic and maybe the Dunlop CX line
 

Jbmgh

Rookie
1. try the Auxetic Radical MP -- it's helped a lot who thought the 360+ was too brassy and harsh on the arm
2. if you're playing mostly doubles, I'd consider going down in static weight a bit to see if it's not the vibration but total weight
3. take a look at the Prestige line, the Head Extreme Tour Auxetic and maybe the Dunlop CX line
Thanks very much J.

I'd like to try the auxetic, was just waiting for them to start coming onto the used market for less crazy prices. Sounds like it could work.

You could be onto something with the static weight as well, just that one of my MPs is way over spec, so I've matched them both. the heavy one has no lead and no weight in the handle (except a couple of grams of foam) and it comes in at 330 strung. Maybe I'll strip the weight off the lighter one and see if that works.

I used to play prestige - 360+ pro and mid, but too much racket for me I think. The radical is much more forgiving. I'll see if I can demo the extreme tour.

Thanks again.
 

jdx2112

Hall of Fame
Yonex VCore Pro 310? Much softer though so could be too much of a drop in free power.
Definitely less easy power than the Radical MP, but at 310 you get some extra static weight. Nice racquet though.

I would also consider some lighter 100" racquets that don't inhibit the OHBH...VCore Pro 100 might be an option...
 

heavyD

Professional
If you like the previous Radical MP then it makes sense to try the Auxetic version which also made the Speed line more comfortable to use.
 

Jbmgh

Rookie
If you like the previous Radical MP then it makes sense to try the Auxetic version which also made the Speed line more comfortable to use.
Interesting though that the speed actually dropped a couple of RA points and has quite a lot lower vibration with auxetic but the radical flex specs stayed the same. In fact, the vibration went up in the auxetic radical according to TW racquet comparison!
 

Mischko

Professional
Aux Speeds are significantly stiffer than previous G360+ Speeds. Aux Radicals are marginally softer than previous G360+ Radicals, same thing actually in terms of real stiffness, and they play almost identically. Closest match to your Rad MP but slightly softer is Aux Extreme Tour (edited from MP, sorry for the mix-up), has some noticeable flex in the throat, and a nice response from the stringbed, firm and soft at the same time. Many people love it, demo it perhaps
 
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Jbmgh

Rookie
Thanks Mischko, a few people have recommended the extreme so I’ll give it a try.
Re the speed stiffness are these your feeling from trying them, because the tw comparison tool says the aux speed is softer than the 360+



Aux Speeds are significantly stiffer than previous G360+ Speeds. Aux Radicals are marginally softer than previous G360+ Radicals, same thing actually in terms of real stiffness, and they play almost identically. Closest match to your Rad MP but slightly softer is Aux Extreme MP, has some noticeable flex in the throat, and a nice response from the stringbed, firm and soft at the same time. Many people love it, demo it perhaps
 

Mischko

Professional
G360+ Speed MP is similar to Aux Extreme Tour (edited from MP), stable head and flexy throat, similar level of feel, firm but soft enough, there's no brassy stiff feel that you get with G360+ Rad MP, and with Pro somewhat. Its throat flexes but twists actually, so the lateral stiffness measurement might even be higher with the older version. Practically all manufacturers are now making frames with a stiff hoop and flexy throat, so there's quite a disconnect between the measured RA stiffness and how it feels. Wilson Clash for example flexes laterally but is stiff torsionally, I'm not a racquet or carbon fibre engineer but it seems opposite of what all other frames are doing

G360+ Speed Pro is clearly soft feeling, and fluttering in the head when you hit a bit harder. Aux Speed Pro is clearly stiffer and crisper feeling, they did away with the flutter, and the frame is really stable
 
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Ryebread

Hall of Fame
The auxetic radical mp is not different enough to make a difference. I tried it.

Vcore pro 100
On spec blade v8 16m
Speed pro 100, it’s not as sluggish as you think!! So comfy.
 

Jbmgh

Rookie
Very interesting, thanks Mischko. Makes you realise you can’t just go by the numbers.
G360+ Speed MP is similar to Aux Extreme MP, stable head and flexy throat, similar level of feel, firm but soft enough, there's no brassy stiff feel that you get with G360+ Rad MP, and with Pro somewhat. Its throat flexes but twists actually, so the lateral stiffness measurment might even be higher with the older version. Practically all manufacturers are now making frames with a stiff hoop and flexy throat, so there's quite a disconnect between the measured RA stiffness and how it feels. Wilson Clash for example flexes laterally but is stiff torsionally, I'm not a racquet or carbon fibre engineer but it seems opposite of what all other frames are doing

G360+ Speed Pro is clearly soft feeling, and fluttering in the head when you hit a bit harder. Aux Speed Pro is clearly stiffer and crisper feeling, they did away with the flutter, and the frame is really stable
 

TennisHound

Legend
Hello,

unrated club player here, ohbh, play mostly doubles, like to get points over quickly by getting to the net and being aggressive, I'm no baseline slugger. Maybe 3.5 I'm not sure.

I've been really enjoying the rad 360+ mp since the spring, but I'm getting minor wrist and te pain even with hybrid stringing, handles stuffed full of foam etc.

I play these weighted up to about 330g 32.5cm balance.

Can anyone recommend a more arm friendly frame with similar characteristics? will be sad to move on, but I think its necessary for my tired old man arm.

I tried a blade v7 16x19 and maybe it was over spec, but it felt like a log to swing relative to the radical.

I also think I generally prefer the feel of a stiffer racket as the blade just felt really mushy.

Any recommendations would be great.

Thanks!
The Auxetic is good too, but you’re just going to have to string it looser. You can still do poly but try around 44lbs just to see. Also if you add weight up top, it could give you more wrist pain. Another idea is to get a cushion grip. It may have already been stated, but Head, Gamma, Wilson, and Babolat all make cushion grips that help dampen the vibes. A cushion grip along with the foam in the handle should add an extra buffer.
 
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Jbmgh

Rookie
I’ve tried low tension poly in these at 40/38 but I struggle to get to grips with it. Just prefer a firmer response all round. My go to is sonic pro edge mains at 50 and Syn gut crosses at 54.

I’m going to remove a bit of lead from the lighter one to drop the Swingweight and see if I can adjust.

Thanks.


The Auxetic is good too, but you’re just going to have to string it looser. You can still do poly but try around 44lbs just to see. Also if you add weight up top, it could give you more wrist pain. Another idea is to get a cushion grip. It may have already been stated, but Head, Gamma, Wilson, and Babolat all make cushion grips that help dampen the vibes. A cushion grip along with the foam in the handle should add an extra buffer.
 

Jbmgh

Rookie
Good shout with the cushion grip too.

The Auxetic is good too, but you’re just going to have to string it looser. You can still do poly but try around 44lbs just to see. Also if you add weight up top, it could give you more wrist pain. Another idea is to get a cushion grip. It may have already been stated, but Head, Gamma, Wilson, and Babolat all make cushion grips that help dampen the vibes. A cushion grip along with the foam in the handle should add an extra buffer.
 

Jbmgh

Rookie
Got a chance to hit with the auxetic speed mp and the 360+ speed pro tonight. Didn’t like the mp much, maybe the stringbed was a bit open compared to what I’m used to. Loved the pro though. Might give that one a longer demo. Both much softer than the radical. Of the two the pro felt lighter than the mo and head just came through so nice and fast.
 

Mischko

Professional
When I first replied to your question I mixed up Extreme MP and Tour, sorry. You asked what was like Rad MP, and I wrote Aux Extreme MP, but I actually thought of Tour, I just mixed them up, probably thanks to Head's naming mess

Extreme MP has that extra power and stiffness, plus a very open string pattern, it can be a difficult to keep the ball in court
 

Jbmgh

Rookie
No worries Mischko, thanks for the update. After tonight’s hit with the speed pro I’m starting to think I might like 18x20s which is a bit of a departure for me!
When I first replied to your question I mixed up Extreme MP and Tour, sorry. You asked what was like Rad MP, and I wrote Aux Extreme MP, but I actually thought of Tour, I just mixed them up, probably thanks to Head's naming mess

Extreme MP has that extra power and stiffness, plus a very open string pattern, it can be a difficult to keep the ball in court
 

Dragy

Legend
No worries Mischko, thanks for the update. After tonight’s hit with the speed pro I’m starting to think I might like 18x20s which is a bit of a departure for me!
Speed Pro is a great option. It tends to launch the ball a bit low to my liking, but coming from Radical you might have no worries.

Don’t think if it in terms how 100 sqin it is or 23mm beam - just use it, it’s very controlled, modernish soft and rather forgiving compared to 97-98 alternatives. Kind of evolution of those 10+ years ago radicals (Youtek, IG) in more user-friendly package.
 

Jbmgh

Rookie
Might have just been the excitement of a new thing, but I loved it. Stringbed felt super consistent to me and I could really swing out without losing control. I also had a lot of success with putting away mid court sitters that I usually struggle to keep in the court.

If it’s an 18x20 thing, then I might need to demo a load of 18x20s

Going to give the tt100p a hit when I can for sure.

Speed Pro is a great option. It tends to launch the ball a bit low to my liking, but coming from Radical you might have no worries.

Don’t think if it in terms how 100 sqin it is or 23mm beam - just use it, it’s very controlled, modernish soft and rather forgiving compared to 97-98 alternatives. Kind of evolution of those 10+ years ago radicals (Youtek, IG) in more user-friendly package.
 

artdeco

Semi-Pro
Might have just been the excitement of a new thing, but I loved it. Stringbed felt super consistent to me and I could really swing out without losing control. I also had a lot of success with putting away mid court sitters that I usually struggle to keep in the court.

If it’s an 18x20 thing, then I might need to demo a load of 18x20s

Going to give the tt100p a hit when I can for sure.
You might want to try Yonex VCore Pro97D too then.
 

GabeFSU

Rookie
I an a 50 year old playing lots of 4.0 usta league tennis. I played with the Radical MP for several years, really enjoying the all court game the frame seems geared to, and just did not gel with a version around 6 years ago. After a comprehensive search I settled on the Yonex Vcore 98 and played with the last 3 versions of that frame. The '23 is the best inho and it's features are very similar to the old Radical mp I loved. Good luck.
 

vsbabolat

G.O.A.T.
Hello,

unrated club player here, ohbh, play mostly doubles, like to get points over quickly by getting to the net and being aggressive, I'm no baseline slugger. Maybe 3.5 I'm not sure.

I've been really enjoying the rad 360+ mp since the spring, but I'm getting minor wrist and te pain even with hybrid stringing, handles stuffed full of foam etc.

I play these weighted up to about 330g 32.5cm balance.

Can anyone recommend a more arm friendly frame with similar characteristics? will be sad to move on, but I think its necessary for my tired old man arm.

I tried a blade v7 16x19 and maybe it was over spec, but it felt like a log to swing relative to the radical.

I also think I generally prefer the feel of a stiffer racket as the blade just felt really mushy.

Any recommendations would be great.

Thanks!
Auxetic Radical MP
Auxetic Extreme Tour
Auxetic Prestige MP and if you are in Europe MP-L
 

Jbmgh

Rookie
Just a little update to this one. Thanks for all the recommendations. I’ve been demoing the speed pro auxetic and the original Prince 100p for a while now, and keep going back to the radicals .

With a bit of tweaking I think the 100p could be a winner, but I’d need to commit to it and get my timing up to scratch. Really like how it plays though. Great feel on contact but maybe a bit less solid feeling than the radical. Launch angle feels similar if not higher than the radical.

Speed pro feels great on contact and while it feels like it swings fast I think maybe it’s just a bit heavy for me or something because I’m often late on my backhand and struggle to get power on serve. Also struggle a little with the launch angle which feels a fair bit lower than the radical, meaning im hitting backhands into the net more often.

I’ve taken all the lead off the radicals and am now stringing them full poly at 42/40 and my wrist is happy with that for now so these will still be my mains.

I’ll mix them up over the off season and see which one comes out on top for 2024.

Definitely want to try the whiteout 18x20 when it comes to the uk too.

Thanks again.
 

Jbmgh

Rookie
I’m also going to try stringing low tension full poly (around 40) in the speed pro, to see if that helps the launch and spin generation. It has a poly/Syn gut hybrid in it at the moment.
 

Crocodile

G.O.A.T.
When I tested the current auxetic radical I thought it played like a brick. Yes it was a solid frame but for things such as wrist, elbow and shoulder safety I thought there were better options. Couple of frames that came to mind was:
1. Artengo Control Tour
2. Angell K7 Red
3. Diadem Elevate MP
4. Pro Kennex Black Ace - all versions and probably the best along wit their Q Tour line
5. And of course the Clash
6. You could try to EVO C10
 

Trip

Legend
@Jbmgh - I feel like a broken record when I say this over and over in so many threads where older/tired arms are looking for reprieve, but if actually being able to heal while continuing to play is priority number one, then you want to go straight to ProKennex, period. They have moveable mass technology in their frames (chambers filled with microbeads that shift on contact) which dissipate virtually all impact shock from ever reaching your arm, and the tech flat-out works better than any conventional frame (including Clash, Phantoms, softer/older player sticks, etc.).

At your level and for doubles, I would seriously consider a move up to a 100" frame, and if you really need a buttery flex in addition, choose a Black Ace Pro 300 with added handle weight (link), or 315 (link), or for a bit more natural punch, and IMHO a better all-around frame, choose a Ki 5 (link) as a customization platform (adding 15g of lead tape spiral-wrapped from 1.5-4.5" up the handle, under the base grip, to essentially create a 310g, 7pts-head-light frame), or even better, if you don't mind having a tad more static weight onboard from the start (315g unstrung), the Kinetic Pro 5G Classic (link), which is 8pts head-light strung in stock form, and is pretty much ready-to-play with an over-grip (maybe 1-2g of lead at 12, but might not be necessary). Any of the above will work, and give you a decently high recoil weight as well, which on its own will boost comfort and allow for a more naturally lose wrist coupling and less tight forearm muscles as you swing through, so you don't have to arm the ball as much. The 16x20 in 100" makes for a very nice blend of power, control, spin and forgiveness as well. If you really want to stick with the 98" head size for control, there's always the Ki Q+ Tour series, but I would strongly suggest you lean towards the 100's. It will just make life easier.

Hope that helps. Any questions, feel free.
 
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Jbmgh

Rookie
Thanks Trip. I’ve got no aversion to pro kennex and have heard loads of good things. It’s especially appealing that they offer stiffer rackets that are still arm friendly which I think would suit me coming from the radical. I think the ki 5 is probably where I’ll start. Planning to experiment a bit over the winter so I’m going to track one o of these down. Much appreciated.
 

Trip

Legend
@Jbmgh - Awesome. Best of luck with the Ki 5. Because it's so light, you may end up getting along with the 3pt HL stock balance well enough that it may not even need handle weight to be maneuverable enough for you. Regardless, do keep us posted as to how all of this works out.
 

Jbmgh

Rookie
@Jbmgh - I feel like a broken record when I say this over and over in so many threads where older/tired arms are looking for reprieve, but if actually being able to heal while continuing to play is priority number one, then you want to go straight to ProKennex, period. They have moveable mass technology in their frames (chambers filled with microbeads that shift on contact) which dissipate virtually all impact shock from ever reaching your arm, and the tech flat-out works better than any conventional frame (including Clash, Phantoms, softer/older player sticks, etc.).

At your level and for doubles, I would seriously consider a move up to a 100" frame, and if you really need a buttery flex in addition, choose a Black Ace Pro 300 with added handle weight (link), or 315 (link), or for a bit more natural punch, and IMHO a better all-around frame, choose a Ki 5 (link) as a customization platform (adding 15g of lead tape spiral-wrapped from 1.5-4.5" up the handle, under the base grip, to essentially create a 310g, 7pts-head-light frame), or even better, if you don't mind having a tad more static weight onboard from the start (315g unstrung), the Kinetic Pro 5G Classic (link), which is 8pts head-light strung in stock form, and is pretty much ready-to-play with an over-grip (maybe 1-2g of lead at 12, but might not be necessary). Any of the above will work, and give you a decently high recoil weight as well, which on its own will boost comfort and allow for a more naturally lose wrist coupling and less tight forearm muscles as you swing through, so you don't have to arm the ball as much. The 16x20 in 100" makes for a very nice blend of power, control, spin and forgiveness as well. If you really want to stick with the 98" head size for control, there's always the Ki Q+ Tour series, but I would strongly suggest you lean towards the 100's. It will just make life easier.

Hope that helps. Any questions, feel
@Jbmgh - Awesome. Best of luck with the Ki 5. Because it's so light, you may end up getting along with the 3pt HL stock balance well enough that it may not even need handle weight to be maneuverable enough for you. Regardless, do keep us posted as to how all of this works out.
thanks Trip. Couple of pro kennex frames available to me cheap ish (I like to buy used for demoing - cheap skate!) 312g version of the ki5, and an ionic ki5. Any idea how these stack up? Thanks again.
 

Jbmgh

Rookie
@Jbmgh - Awesome. Best of luck with the Ki 5. Because it's so light, you may end up getting along with the 3pt HL stock balance well enough that it may not even need handle weight to be maneuverable enough for you. Regardless, do keep us posted as to how all of this works out.
thanks Trip. Couple of pro kennex frames available to me cheap ish (I like to buy used for demoing - cheap skate!) 312g version of the ki5, and an ionic ki5. Any idea how these stack up? Thanks again.
 

Trip

Legend
Nice. The original 315g Ki5 and the Ionic 315g are both nice frames. 325-ish stock swing weights, so plenty of plow-through in stock form, and 7pt HL strung balances, so similar to a Pro Staff 97 or VCore Pro / Percept 97 in weight and balance. However, those earlier models do have lower 61-62RA flex ratings, so the "thuddy-ness" on contact will be just a hair less than the current Ki 5. Then again, the wrist make like that a bit better. Hope that helps!
 
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