Solid Feel / Plowthrough of these 335g to 349g Racquets?

[TripleB]

I'm currently in the midst of a couple weeks away from tennis due to some back pain associated with my intercostal muscle putting pressure on my intercostal nerve (whatever that means - to me it means spasms going on in my back).

Anyway, I have been told that using a heavier and more solid racquet (than my 320g Dunlops) would help stretch out the muscles and I wouldn't have to use as much (or quick I guess) torque in my back to get power out of the racquet. I could let the weight and solid feel create the power moreso than my swingspeed.

Two of the more solid feeling racquets that I remember playing with throughout the years are the ProStaff Classic 6.1 and the Hyper ProStaff 6.1. I would say both of these gave more plowthough than my POG Mid that I used for so long.

Can anyone comment on the solid feel, plowthrough, control, and power of the following 335g to 349g racquets?

Babolat Pure Storm Tour ('09 model)
Babolat Pure Storm Tour GT ('09 model)
Dunlop AeroGel 4D 200 Tour (although the 352 swingweight is a little scary)
Volkl Organix 10 325
Wilson KSix-One 95 16x18
Wilson BLX Six-One 95 16x18

Maneuverability would be great but for right now the solid feel with decent power is what I'm looking for.

Thanks for any feedback.

TripleB

 

[Agent Orynge]

I've heard some folks say that the X10 325 is similar to the 6.1 series. I thought it was quite ponderous when I demoed it myself, and while it did have a fair amount of plow, I didn't really jibe with the feel. Still, it might be right up your alley.

 

[ben123]

heavier racquets will for sure absorb more vibrations at contact. thats good for something like tennis elbow. i dunno about back problems. the thing is you still have to get the racquet moving. its not like it swings itself

 

[TripleB]

I've heard some folks say that the X10 325 is similar to the 6.1 series. I thought it was quite ponderous when I demoed it myself, and while it did have a fair amount of plow, I didn't really jibe with the feel. Still, it might be right up your alley.

In looking at the review for the X10, it seemed like most people felt the X10 offered a very cushioned feel (86 in comfort). That's typically not something I look for in a racquet...I like a little more crisp feel, knowing where the ball is on the racquet face at all times. It's also not a feeling I would necessarily associate with the 6.1 series (at least the models prior to the BLX). The swingweight between the 6.1s and the X10 is quite a big difference as well: 338/340 vs 317 - I would say that would make a huge difference in how they play and the amount of 'plowthrough' felt. Thanks for your input.

heavier racquets will for sure absorb more vibrations at contact. thats good for something like tennis elbow. i dunno about back problems. the thing is you still have to get the racquet moving. its not like it swings itself

My thinking (which could be entirely wrong) on what he meant was that the racquet would help in 'pulling' my torso around and it would cause less stress than me actually twisting my torso all on my own . Something about what he said made me think that it would be less 'brute' force exerted on my spine when swinging the racquet and a heavier racquet may smooth out my motion. He also mentioned that it would help if I prepared earlier for my shots instead of quickly pulling my racquet back.

Again, some of that was reading between the lines but he seemed pretty knowledgeable as far as tennis and the injuries involved with tennis.

Thanks for everyone's input.

TripleB

 

[TennisCJC]

You will get a variety of opinions but I think you are heading in the right direction. A fairly heavy racket with SW in 330-350 range generates EASY power if you just swing with smooth accelerating strokes. Easier on the body.

I am sure I will tick some off but I think the argument that a heavy racket slows down swing speed or tires you out in the 3rd set is way overrated.

I played the blx 6.1 95 16x18 for over a year and it is a great racket. The plow, stability, power and control are all excellent. You might want to demo the 18x20 too as the 16x18 is very lively. I settled on poly mains at 52 lbs with multi cross at 54 lbs. The poly mains tone down the stock power a bit and give it more control. Excellent spin and easy power with this racket.

I now play a volkl org 10 295 leaded up to 12 oz, 5 HL, and SW approx 335. I did not demo the o325 as I wanted to end up around 12 oz total with SW in 330-340 range after customization. The customized o295 racket plays great too - very stable, no vibrations, easy power, and plenty of plow. It is also good with either poly/multi or multi/poly setups. I really like both setups but am leaning toward poly/multi as you get a touch more spin.

 

[TennisMaverick]

In looking at the review for the X10, it seemed like most people felt the X10 offered a very cushioned feel (86 in comfort). That's typically not something I look for in a racquet...I like a little more crisp feel, knowing where the ball is on the racquet face at all times....

The stick is cushioned because of the grip system, not the racquet face. In fact, the X10's head is about the stiffest I've ever experienced, including the 6.1 and the APD. It is about as crisp as you can get from a 16x19.

 

[Agent Orynge]

In looking at the review for the X10, it seemed like most people felt the X10 offered a very cushioned feel (86 in comfort). That's typically not something I look for in a racquet...I like a little more crisp feel, knowing where the ball is on the racquet face at all times. It's also not a feeling I would necessarily associate with the 6.1 series (at least the models prior to the BLX). The swingweight between the 6.1s and the X10 is quite a big difference as well: 338/340 vs 317 - I would say that would make a huge difference in how they play and the amount of 'plowthrough' felt. Thanks for your input.



My thinking (which could be entirely wrong) on what he meant was that the racquet would help in 'pulling' my torso around and it would cause less stress than me actually twisting my torso all on my own . Something about what he said made me think that it would be less 'brute' force exerted on my spine when swinging the racquet and a heavier racquet may smooth out my motion. He also mentioned that it would help if I prepared earlier for my shots instead of quickly pulling my racquet back.

Again, some of that was reading between the lines but he seemed pretty knowledgeable as far as tennis and the injuries involved with tennis.

Thanks for everyone's input.

TripleB

Cushioned is something of an understatement. I like the feel of Wilson frames myself, and I didn't make the connection between the X10 and 6.1 series that others have been able to. If anything, it felt more like a Prince - muted and disconnected.

Don't let the SW fool you. I demoed it with a buddy, and neither of us have gotten exhausted so fast with any other frame. I'd pass it off as an isolated phenomenon, if I hadn't seen my friend's timing degrade considerably right in front of my eyes. It's also not the heaviest frame I've played with, which makes it something of an anomaly.

 

[mikeler]

Babolat Pure Storm Tour ('09 model)
Babolat Pure Storm Tour GT ('09 model)

I've only tried the 2 above my post. I played with the original PSTs for about 1.5 years and the GT version I hit with for about 20 minutes total on 2 different occasions. The original has more flex and therefore less power. Both are solid rackets with good plowthrough and control.

I eventually had to go with a slightly lighter racket in the Pro Kennex 7G due to shoulder issues which are now gone. The added bonus is that this stick is also very arm friendly.

 

[UWBTennis]

I have so far hit with the two 6.1 and the PSTGT (haven't hit with the non-GT version). I love these racquet very sincerely and both can become my choice racquet anytime. If you ever read any of my post about the PSTGT you know that I have a long distance relationship with it that is full of passion (until I can get the money to buy it, it'll stay a long distance relationship). If you want the super solid feel and the plow through, the 6.1 will absolutely crush the competition of the others racquets in your list (except for maybe the 200 tour) due to it's weight and balance. It's the stick that I feel has the most plow through I have ever hit with (except for the ncode 6.1 tour, but that was way too unforgiving for me). However, if you want to recover from an injury and want a slightly sweeter larger sweetspot, the PSTGT is it. It's what drew me to the frame in the first place, that plush stable feel and the constant depth I got from it. The 6.1 may have more plow through when you hit it in the middle, but hit it outside of the sweetspot and it'll land short. About the K vs BLX, it's just a feel thing. The BLX is more dampened and less harsh, I didn't notice a playability difference.

 

[Torres]

I'm currently in the midst of a couple weeks away from tennis due to some back pain associated with my intercostal muscle putting pressure on my intercostal nerve (whatever that means - to me it means spasms going on in my back).

Anyway, I have been told that using a heavier and more solid racquet (than my 320g Dunlops) would help stretch out the muscles and I wouldn't have to use as much (or quick I guess) torque in my back to get power out of the racquet. I could let the weight and solid feel create the power moreso than my swingspeed.

I have to say that I'm pretty sceptical about that advice.

I've been told by physios including a tennis playing physio that playing tennis actually tightens the muscles in your body. The vast majority of tennis players have far more developed muscles along their more dominant side of their body. Those muscles, over time, tend to become tight and knotty, which increases the risk of injury and a loss of suppleness and fluidity. Its for that reason that the top pros (given that they can afford it), have daily massages to break down and prevent adhesions in their muscle tissues. Foam rollers also serve the same purpose (witness Azarenka's muscle roller which she carries around her all the time) though they're not quite as effective has a dedicated masseur.

Getting back to your question, I don't see how having a heavier racquet is going to make your muscles limber or looser at all. If anything, I would have thought it would result in you using your muscles even more because even with the loosest or most fluid swing (which you can easily have with a c320g racquet), you still have to use muscles throughout your body to generate the leverage forces to move your limbs and racquet. Also if your muscle is in spasm its being overworked. You had better be careful that getting a heavier racquet doesn't result in that spasming muscle becoming even more overworked because the mechanics are going to be exactly the same except that you're using a greater weight. It's not as if the weight is going to be causing you to use to a different muscle group because the swing mechanics should be the same. I can guarantee you that you will use your back alot more and be putting it under more strain when serving with a heavier racquet than a lighter one.

I think you should review that advice you've been given and get an second/third opinion from a couple of reputable, preferably tennis playing, sports physios.

 

[TripleB]

If you want the super solid feel and the plow through, the 6.1 will absolutely crush the competition of the others racquets in your list (except for maybe the 200 tour) due to it's weight and balance. However, if you want to recover from an injury and want a slightly sweeter larger sweetspot, the PSTGT is it.

Did you find much difference in maneuverability between the Babolat and the Six-One racquets? Also, did you seem to get as much spin out of the Babolat? Thanks for your input.

I have to say that I'm pretty sceptical about that advice.

I don't see how having a heavier racquet is going to make your muscles limber or looser at all. You had better be careful that getting a heavier racquet doesn't result in that spasming muscle becoming even more overworked because the mechanics are going to be exactly the same except that you're using a greater weight. I can guarantee you that you will use your back alot more and be putting it under more strain when serving with a heavier racquet than a lighter one.

I was skepital as well...that's why I put told in my original post.

I didn't see how having a heavier racquet would make my muscles looser either...I just assumed that it might make the motion smoother and more controlled if I let the weight of the racquet pull my muscles through the hitting zone. I was just trying to read anything into what he said that would make sense.

Yea, I may ease my way back up to a heavier racquet...Ozone Tour to RDX-500 Midplus to POG Mid to one of these to see how it feels.

Yea, serving might be a bit more difficult...I seem to use a lot arm right now...of course my serve is horrible so if I need to I can serve underhanded with the heavier racquet

Torres...I truly appreciate you taking the time to give me your feedback.

TripleB

 

[UWBTennis]

Did you find much difference in maneuverability between the Babolat and the Six-One racquets? Also, did you seem to get as much spin out of the Babolat? Thanks for your input.

I didn't see how having a heavier racquet would make my muscles looser either...I just assumed that it might make the motion smoother and more controlled if I let the weight of the racquet pull my muscles through the hitting zone. I was just trying to read anything into what he said that would make sense.

TripleB

The bolded part is what I believe people are talking about when they mean a smoother stroke. I usually have to grip my racquet and muscle it too much when I play with a lighter racquet, I find that I seem to do that unconsciously with ligher racquet. With heavier racquet I'm more relax (though still not enough I believe) with my stroke and it's a little smoother.

I already posted about the spin in your other thread, the BLX gave a noticeable moer ammount of spin when you really tried to brush the ball. But with flatter stroke, the spin difference will become negligible. What I really like though is that the PSTGT is really maneuverable for its swingweight and still retain the stability which is why I like it. If I was more advance and could handle the timing and sweetspot of the BLX without getting tired, I would make that my stick of choice but I unfortunately can't.

But if you really want spin, I hear that the organix 10 really gives it to you along with that maneuverability, I haven't tried it yet (damn rain has kept me from being able to demo lately) but the good reviews got me curious. If you ever demo any of the racquets that I haven't and demo the ones that I have, a comparison would be appreciated so I know if I should skip it as a demo or not .

 

[counterpuncher]

IMO the PST would be the closest to your racquet and the one which I would try first. I have used both models and the earlier one is slightly flexier and heavier, so the power level works out about the same. But given that you like a crisper feel, the GT version is the one to choose.

It ticks all of your requirements (solid, good plowthrough, heavy groundstrokes, tighter string pattern for control and more power than your 300 Tour). It would be probably the easiest to adapt to from your current stick, without the need to completely change your strokes.

 

[Torres]

The bolded part is what I believe people are talking about when they mean a smoother stroke. I usually have to grip my racquet and muscle it too much when I play with a lighter racquet, I find that I seem to do that unconsciously with ligher racquet. With heavier racquet I'm more relax (though still not enough I believe) with my stroke and it's a little smoother.

I have a couple of 6.1 95 Teams at various weights. Because its a light racquet in stock form (c315g), I find that my strokes are longer, that I use my body much more, and that I stay looser. I have to do that to maintain momentum. And because its lighter, its also whippier and racquet head speed is greater. I don't see how muscling the ball would increase ball speed. If anything muscling the ball, will just tighten you up, and reduce racquet head speed. None of that should put undue pressure on the player's back though - if there is going to be an injury, its going to be arm injury from having too tense an arm.

With my 6.1 95s, its a different matter altogether because at the end of the day there's no getting away from the fact you're swinging a c350g stick. Everything to your game has to be more dialed in because once you start swinging there's no stopping, or if you're late swinging its just not going to happen. Your preparation has to be earlier, your footwork better, your spacing and timing more consistent and so on and so on. Everything's a bit more of an effort, and if you turn up at the courts on one of those days where you're tired or at 60%, it just isn't going to happen.

If someone's going to muscle a light racquet, I suspect that there's just as much likelihood that they're going to muscle a heavier racquet, albeit for slightly different reasons, or simply muscling it in a different way.

 

[TimothyO]

It sounds more like a matter of conditioning or simple injury than rkt.

I prefer frames around 340g, 8-9 pts HL, and very soft. I usually achieve that configuration through mods to lighter frames with an extra heavy grip, an overgrip, and lead under the grip and around 10/2 or 12. At the moment I'm experimenting with a Pure Storm at 341g, a shade over 8pts HL, and strung 51/47 with VS Gut/CoFocus 18 and love it.

I find that heavier, softer frames, which are wonderful to prevent TE, require MORE effort from the lower back muscles since they demand a full, smooth take back and swing with the torso's core muscles swinging the arm rather than the arm swinging the rkt.

From a less open stance the swing starts with the legs but whether less or fully open the swing eventually ends up passing through the core muscles for proper shoulder turn and to avoid arming the ball. To avoid injury you should condition those muscles through excercise and apply a level of acceleration appropriate for your fitness level. Exceeding that acceleration limit can cause injury but the appropriate level is also determined by frame weight and energy level.

However, I also find that, all else being equal, a heavier rkt demands a lower speed in that it can crush the ball where lighter frames get pushed around. But whether swinging a "heavy frame" or "heavier frame" you're still using the lega and then core muscles for your power.

Best advice: rest and heal then do lots of conditioning for core muscles, back and abdomen.

Finally, if you enjoy spin, do try one of the Pure Storms with VS mains and CoFocus 18 crosses. I've been getting so much topspin that I've had to make major adjustments to my swing to avoid netting the ball. I finally got it dialed in last night towards the end of a hitting session. I started aiming well above the net and balls are driven in by the extraordinary topspin.

 

[UWBTennis]

I have a couple of 6.1 95 Teams at various weights. Because its a light racquet in stock form (c315g), I find that my strokes are longer, that I use my body much more, and that I stay looser. I have to do that to maintain momentum. And because its lighter, its also whippier and racquet head speed is greater. I don't see how muscling the ball would increase ball speed. If anything muscling the ball, will just tighten you up, and reduce racquet head speed. None of that should put undue pressure on the player's back though - if there is going to be an injury, its going to be arm injury from having too tense an arm.

With my 6.1 95s, its a different matter altogether because at the end of the day there's no getting away from the fact you're swinging a c350g stick. Everything to your game has to be more dialed in because once you start swinging there's no stopping, or if you're late swinging its just not going to happen. Your preparation has to be earlier, your footwork better, your spacing and timing more consistent and so on and so on. Everything's a bit more of an effort, and if you turn up at the courts on one of those days where you're tired or at 60%, it just isn't going to happen.

If someone's going to muscle a light racquet, I suspect that there's just as much likelihood that they're going to muscle a heavier racquet, albeit for slightly different reasons, or simply muscling it in a different way.

Yeah that's my exact problem. I'm trying to learn how to hit a relax stroke right now but I find the timing to be harder I guess because I'm not "muscling" the racquet into place. That's my problem with lower weight racquet, when they swing too fast I have to muscle them into place so I'm not too early. They are also less stable so I have to grip it a little harder. But yeah the heavier racquet does a better job of helping me learn the relax swing.

Your comment with the 6.1 are spot on for me. Because the timing of the racquet is so hard to get down especially when you play against a better player, I decided that I'm not ready for it. It would certainly become the best racquet I have hit with yet if I could only get the timing down.

An update though, right now with the Black Friday sale, I'm incredibly tempted to jus pull the trigger and get 2 of the 4D 200 tour, the specs are even more demanding than the 6.1 which is why I haven't pull the trigger yet. But I'm trying to ask TW a question to see if I can handle it. If I do buy it, you can expect a comparison between it and the other racquets by next Saturday (yay for mixed double tournies ).

 

[stingstang]

Your comment with the 6.1 are spot on for me. Because the timing of the racquet is so hard to get down especially when you play against a better player, I decided that I'm not ready for it. It would certainly become the best racquet I have hit with yet if I could only get the timing down.

A 6.1 95 gives you a "wow I'm launching cannonballs" feel at first but if you aren't in good shape you slow big time after a first set.

The specs on the 200tour are crazy, even bigger SW and flexy too!

The regular 18x20 200 I really like (not tried the bio). A really solid baseline tool and a nice plush feel.

 

[Fuji]

I'm currently in the midst of a couple weeks away from tennis due to some back pain associated with my intercostal muscle putting pressure on my intercostal nerve (whatever that means - to me it means spasms going on in my back).

Anyway, I have been told that using a heavier and more solid racquet (than my 320g Dunlops) would help stretch out the muscles and I wouldn't have to use as much (or quick I guess) torque in my back to get power out of the racquet. I could let the weight and solid feel create the power moreso than my swingspeed.

Two of the more solid feeling racquets that I remember playing with throughout the years are the ProStaff Classic 6.1 and the Hyper ProStaff 6.1. I would say both of these gave more plowthough than my POG Mid that I used for so long.

Can anyone comment on the solid feel, plowthrough, control, and power of the following 335g to 349g racquets?

Babolat Pure Storm Tour ('09 model)
Babolat Pure Storm Tour GT ('09 model)
Dunlop AeroGel 4D 200 Tour (although the 352 swingweight is a little scary)
Volkl Organix 10 325
Wilson KSix-One 95 16x18
Wilson BLX Six-One 95 16x18

Maneuverability would be great but for right now the solid feel with decent power is what I'm looking for.

Thanks for any feedback.

TripleB

I've actually played with all the rackets your posted! How good of shape is your elbow in? The KSix-One 95 is ROUGH! It's ultra stiff and a bit brassy, although a wicked frame for just putting the beat down on the ball. The BLX is a lot softer feeling IMO, and cups the ball a bit better. I much preferred the BLX due to a lot more comfort.

The 4D 200 Tour is exactly what I was thinking of when reading your post. Honestly it's SW isn't that high once you get used to playing with it. As long as your movement is on par with your level, you'll be fine! It's an ultra comfortable frame and a joy to serve with. SO MUCH PLOWTHROUGH That's the only thing that comes to my mind when I played with that frame. It's awesome to pelt the ball. Very powerful, but controllable power. It's very reminiscent of the Prostaff Classic 6.1 in a softer package.

The Organix 325, I still own, but very rarely play with. Stock it's very disconnected. I tried TM's mods, and they worked well, but they were very extreme. Overall I'm not sure I could recommend this stick. There are better options out there for the price, and the frame is a bit unpredictable when just rallying.

The Pure Storm Tour's are a bit of an oddball for me. Not really heavy enough to be a "players" frame, and a not whippy enough for a tweener. Not really my favorite frame. Others may be able to chime in more!

Good luck!!!

-Fuji

 

[Thepowerofchoice]

The 4D 200 Tour is exactly what I was thinking of when reading your post. Honestly it's SW isn't that high once you get used to playing with it. As long as your movement is on par with your level, you'll be fine! It's an ultra comfortable frame and a joy to serve with. SO MUCH PLOWTHROUGH That's the only thing that comes to my mind when I played with that frame. It's awesome to pelt the ball. Very powerful, but controllable power. It's very reminiscent of the Prostaff Classic 6.1 in a softer package.

Agree with Dunlop 4D 200 Tour. You might want to consider Bio 200 Tour which has slightly more head light and less swing weight (not by much)than 4D 200 Tour.

 

[TennisMaverick]

The Organix 325, I still own, but very rarely play with. Stock it's very disconnected. I tried TM's mods, and they worked well, but they were very extreme. Overall I'm not sure I could recommend this stick. There are better options out there for the price, and the frame is a bit unpredictable when just rallying.

If it worked well with mods, but felt disconnected stock, does that mean the quickness in which the ball leaves the frame stock? If so, drop tension 5 lbs to increase dwell time for more feel, or move to a thinner string. The Volkl COO uses it with 1.20mm/18 gauge Cyclone at 68lbs. He is a 5.0 young guy with a very violent rotational swing. I have a very linear swing, and mine are heavily modified, strung with Gripper 16 gauge at 66M/62.5C.

 

[Fuji]

If it worked well with mods, but felt disconnected stock, does that mean the quickness in which the ball leaves the frame stock? If so, drop tension 5 lbs to increase dwell time for more feel, or move to a thinner string. The Volkl COO uses it with 1.20mm/18 gauge Cyclone at 68lbs. He is a 5.0 young guy with a very violent rotational swing. I have a very linear swing, and mine are heavily modified, strung with Gripper 16 gauge at 66M/62.5C.

It just felt like the ball got lost in the string bed a lot, especially stock. It had almost no feel. I knew that I hit the ball, but whether I was in the sweet spot or the edge of the frame, I honestly didn't know.

The more weight I put on, similar to your mods, the better it got, but then it just got quite powerful too. It was a trade off that was hard to compensate for! I eventually settled around 13.5oz, similar to my other sticks, and everything was good except for regular rally ground strokes. I don't hit with as much top spin now, as I'm hitting a lot closer to flat, and when there is that much pop with an open string bed, it's a bit of a task.

Honestly, I'm just overly picky when it comes to frames! I could probably string it a bit looser, (I had it at 55/53 with Head RIP Control 16), but I run the risk of loosing control. Poly might be in order however.

-Fuji

 

[UCSF2012]

Intercostal muscles are the muscles in your ribs. Not really related to your back. If your back is hurting, they you have to strengthen your back muscles. Lateral pulls and side bends are good for that.

 

[TennisMaverick]

It just felt like the ball got lost in the string bed a lot, especially stock. It had almost no feel. I knew that I hit the ball, but whether I was in the sweet spot or the edge of the frame, I honestly didn't know.

The more weight I put on, similar to your mods, the better it got, but then it just got quite powerful too. It was a trade off that was hard to compensate for! I eventually settled around 13.5oz, similar to my other sticks, and everything was good except for regular rally ground strokes. I don't hit with as much top spin now, as I'm hitting a lot closer to flat, and when there is that much pop with an open string bed, it's a bit of a task.

I hit very flat. I know to what it is your are describing, but I personally don't find the stick having a lot of pop--it's just another "10" IMPO.

From my "Organix 10 325 Review" thread:

"At contact, there is no vibration transferred to the hand. As soon as the ball leaves the frame, you only feel the racquet moving through the air, as opposed to feeling the frame wobble between contact and follow-through. For some, this is the Volkl feel/feedback, because what you just did, is still resonating from the frame, to your hand, and up to your brain. The Organix at 12:00, and the Organix material at all four poles, completely changes the feel and dynamics of the ball response off of the string bed. It's a completely new feel. Be prepared to spend a little time to adjust, because the first time you hit a ball, "what the frak?" will be your first and only thought. The stick is crazy precise, whether you drive the ball or use spin, You can feel the ball on the string bed long enough to know exactly what adjustment to make on the following shot, but it very quick and crisp.

"When hitting flat with the the X10, and swinging slowly, you will feel the ball come off the frame very quickly as you would expect, with the famous soft Volkl feel. However, as you increase the pressure on the ball, you feel the WHOLE STRING BED MOVE in unison, backwards, due to impact, holding the ball; it's quite exhilarating. This allows you to hit a short-angle CC with a slow swing at 10mph, and the same shot with a fast swing at 50mph, to the same part of the court, with the same amount of control--I could do this on my weaker BH side. That is not what happens with a traditional graphite frame, as stiffness and flex work in tandem with dwell time. That brings a different element to the game. When hitting with spin, again, the WHOLE STRING BED reacts, but it bites the ball. It does not have the dwell time of the PB 10 Mid, nor the cupping of the Melbourne, but the dwell time increases substantially when fully leaded. You cannot have the power of a 98in2--which by definition has less plow thru than a 93in2--and still have the same dwell time without the extra weight to do so. Thus, the soft, precise, feel in the hand, is coming from either the beam shape, the Organix material, the new grip system, or the combination of any of the three. And do not confuse this soft feel with the cushioned feel of the BB 11; it can only be described as soft, cushioned, and scalpel like precise."

 

[Rabbit]

Anyway, I have been told that using a heavier and more solid racquet (than my 320g Dunlops) would help stretch out the muscles and I wouldn't have to use as much (or quick I guess) torque in my back to get power out of the racquet. I could let the weight and solid feel create the power moreso than my swingspeed.
TripleB

Color me skeptical as well. Unless the 'new racquet' bug has bit you and you're looking for an excuse, I wouldn't change frames. I sprained my forearm playing with the C10 which went 335g. I sprained a lumbar playing with the C10. Sometimes, you just have injuries.

My current frame weighs 300g and I couldn't be happier. And, I have suffered no ill effects physically from it. Take some Celebrex, rehab a little, and keep on keeping on. You're not 20 any more.

 

[Torres]

The Organix 10 325 is a pretty mediocre stick. Volkl's attempt at playing 'catch up' with the rest of the field and not succeeding.

 

[TennisMaverick]

It just felt like the ball got lost in the string bed a lot, especially stock.

Because of you, I am stringing-up a stock frame with the new Cyclone, and going to give the X10 325 a ride again after 8 months to see if I gain any new insight. I'll post after hitting with it and the new XV1.

 

[Agent Orynge]

Because of you, I am stringing-up a stock frame with the new Cyclone, and going to give the X10 325 a ride again after 8 months to see if I gain any new insight. I'll post after hitting with it and the new XV1.

TM, can you give us a more comprehensive comparison between the X10 and the other sticks that OP mentioned? I'd really like to hear your impressions on those other frames (especially the Dunlop). Thanks!

 

[TripleB]

Intercostal muscles are the muscles in your ribs. Not really related to your back. If your back is hurting, they you have to strengthen your back muscles. Lateral pulls and side bends are good for that.

Yea...when I got home and did some research I saw that they were in the rib cage area. The pain first started about a half an inch to the right of my spine about 1/3 down. By the time I got to the doctor it sort of moved down and towards the right. Right now my back feels pretty good but am having some pain in my rib area. Not sure if he had a premonition that it was going to move around my body or what.

I wouldn't change frames. Sometimes, you just have injuries. Take some Celebrex, rehab a little, and keep on keeping on. You're not 20 any more.

Thanks for the advice. I'm glad (at least I think I'm glad) that it's just an injury and not kidney stones like I thought last week. I was hoping my maturity level (of 23) would keep my body feeling like it was that young as well.

Hope everyone had a fantastic Thanksgiving.

TripleB

 

[Rabbit]

Thanks for the advice. I'm glad (at least I think I'm glad) that it's just an injury and not kidney stones like I thought last week. I was hoping my maturity level (of 23) would keep my body feeling like it was that young as well.

Hope everyone had a fantastic Thanksgiving.

TripleB

If maturity level were the main factor, I'd still have training wheels.

I hope you and yours do too!

 

[retrograde]

Foam rollers also serve the same purpose (witness Azarenka's muscle roller which she carries around her all the time) though they're not quite as effective has a dedicated masseur.

Glad somebody mentioned foam rollers ... first started using them during a few months of PT for a knee problem. Then bought one for myslef from Perform Better. They feel so good on the back, shoulder, and legs after a tough 3-setter! Highly recommended for warmup, cool-down, and conditioning.

 

[Fuji]

Because of you, I am stringing-up a stock frame with the new Cyclone, and going to give the X10 325 a ride again after 8 months to see if I gain any new insight. I'll post after hitting with it and the new XV1.

Awesome! Let us know how it goes!

I just felt the frame had a LOT of pop in it. The more weight that was added the more power I had going into the frame. It was very hard to deal with. I had a tough time getting a rhythm with the frame!

-Fuji

 

[shadowshifter]

Two of the rackets my friend recently demo'd are on your list, and I got a chance to play with them (but only briefly so take this with possibly several grains of salt.) I've also never hit with the wilsons or prince rackets that you referenced as "solid" though, so this may or may not be helpful.

Anyways, I hit with the:
Babolat Pure Storm Tour GT (he got the 2011 model, which is supposedly the same as the 2009 one)
and the
Volkl Organix 10 325

I thought the organix 325 was stiff, but quite comfortable and I got a lot of spin. Though the handle works better at the end, I could feel the vibration on my left hand when I was hitting my two handed backhand. I didn't have any problems with not knowing where on the frame I hit though.

My shoulder didn't like the babolat as much - I think I felt the impact of the ball hitting the racket more - but I could get pace more easily with that than the volkl. I had no problems finding the baseline with either of the rackets, but doing so with the babolat took less effort.

I'm also no expert on this, but the idea that using a heavier racquet to stretch out the muscles and help your intercostal nerve problem sounds like speculation to me. But hey if you try it and it works, that's awesome.

 

[TennisMaverick]

Awesome! Let us know how it goes!

I just felt the frame had a LOT of pop in it. The more weight that was added the more power I had going into the frame. It was very hard to deal with. I had a tough time getting a rhythm with the frame!

-Fuji

I was told that the string was pink, but it is actually fuchsia. It strings-up stiffer than the black Cyclone, but I can tell that it is more lively. I just strung it, so I will try to hit with it on Monday--it's supposed to rain in NYC Sunday.

 

[Agent Orynge]

I was told that the string was pink, but it is actually fuchsia. It strings-up stiffer than the black Cyclone, but I can tell that it is more lively. I just strung it, so I will try to hit with it on Monday--it's supposed to rain in NYC Sunday.

My interwebz must be borked.

Can someone else ask TMav for his impressions on those other frames? I don't think he's seeing my posts.

 

[TennisMaverick]

Awesome! Let us know how it goes!

I just felt the frame had a LOT of pop in it. The more weight that was added the more power I had going into the frame. It was very hard to deal with. I had a tough time getting a rhythm with the frame!

-Fuji

The poly definitely tames the quick release off the frame, and adds ridicules bite. It plays better with the dampener when hitting flat, and I found it easy to control the ball with my very flat OHBH and flat-rolled FH. The poly lets you compress the ball into the strings for more control. However, I feel different that you do regarding a leaded frame. My heavier frame forces the string bed to deflect more, making for a longer dwell time to carry the ball. I felt a loss of power, so if I were to play with this stick, I would increase the string tension a little for a livelier response.

 

[Fuji]

The poly definitely tames the quick release off the frame, and adds ridicules bite. It plays better with the dampener when hitting flat, and I found it easy to control the ball with my very flat OHBH and flat-rolled FH. The poly lets you compress the ball into the strings for more control. However, I feel different that you do regarding a leaded frame. My heavier frame forces the string bed to deflect more, making for a longer dwell time to carry the ball. I felt a loss of power, so if I were to play with this stick, I would increase the string tension a little for a livelier response.

Hmmm. I think our swing speeds are very different. Mine when really going for it, is a fair speed, but not overly quick. More weight adds a ton more power and plow into the shot.

I'm still a bit tentative on poly. I will for sure have to try it out though. I was going through poly like crazy before, so when my season starts up again I will for sure test it out!

-Fuji

 

[TennisMaverick]

Hmmm. I think our swing speeds are very different. Mine when really going for it, is a fair speed, but not overly quick. More weight adds a ton more power and plow into the shot.

I'm still a bit tentative on poly. I will for sure have to try it out though. I was going through poly like crazy before, so when my season starts up again I will for sure test it out!

-Fuji

I trained for years to be very definite on-contact, and my racquet face pressures the ball through a very long contact zone, which allows me to put the ball where I want. With that being said, string beds which have longer dwell times or compress the ball more, makes my technique that much better. Poly, in the X10 325, accomplishes this.

 

[PED]

It plays better with the dampener when hitting flat, and I found it easy to control the ball with my very flat OHBH and flat-rolled FH.

I've noticed this effect with a dampener while hitting flat as well on my Tec 320.

What causes this? Your descriptions are always spot on.

 

[TennisMaverick]

I've noticed this effect with a dampener while hitting flat as well on my Tec 320.

What causes this? Your descriptions are always spot on.

I'm not familiar with your stick, but in-general, adding weight to the bridge area adds stability as you drive the racquet face through the hitting zone. That increases the pressure than you can apply to the ball, especially if the face remains pointing to the target for a long distance, like hitting ten balls in a row, or like pointing a flashlight at a target, as though the racquet face was a flashlight.

 

[PED]

^^Thanks for the description. I'm glad to know I was not imagining it.

 

[fuzz nation]

A couple of thoughts for TripleB...

Curious to know what sort of training you do in your spare time away from the courts. The thing with this game of ours is that the mileage will add up and I don't think we can assume that exclusively playing more tennis will simply make us generally stronger as tennis players. Other pursuits seem to really boost our capacities including our endurance when holding down a heavy tennis schedule. If you're not addressing your fitness while off the court, I think that now is the time.

This muscle and nerve issue that's sidelining you sounds like no fun at all and I wish you a speedy recovery. My suspicion though, is that something's going on beyond simply the racquet you're swinging, especially if it's the same one you've been using for more than a month or two. Since you're not developing tennis elbow in the wake of switching to poly strings or maybe getting a sore shoulder from serving with a beast of a new heavy frame, I think you've got to put the gear a little further down the list of potential problems. All due respect to the professionals you've seen - the advice you received is certainly significant.

Technique and fitness are two aspects that contribute at least as much to your general tennis welfare as the exact frame you're swinging out there. Since you're not playing with something that's exceptionally heavy or light, it's hard for me to believe that this is where your problem is lurking - if you even have a long term problem. I also meant to ask earlier whether this is a one-time injury or some sort of chronic progressive issue?

I like heavy racquets because they work for me, but I try not to assume that everyone needs to play like me. Some days, that's harder to resist than others (HA!!). Any-who, the thing to keep in mind if you decide to take that advice and try a heavier racquet is that you'll need time to become accustomed to using it - and I mean more than just a weekend. I've used very heavy frames as "trainers" in the past and they were really productive when I was building stronger technique, but it took me several weeks to learn the timing I needed to comfortably swing them for more than 15-20 minutes.

A heavier racquet may help you build a more complete kinetic chain for your swing than you have now, but it's smart to save the work on your timing for the practice courts. When we play for points, that's when we're focusing mostly on the other side of the net and swinging much more unconsciously in the process. Try and do that with a heavier, slower, unfamiliar racquet and you'll probably end up muscling it to the ball too much - and your shoulder, etc. won't love you anymore!!!

Please keep us posted, amigo.

 

[TripleB]

Curious to know what sort of training you do in your spare time away from the courts.

This muscle and nerve issue that's sidelining you sounds like no fun at all and I wish you a speedy recovery.

I also meant to ask earlier whether this is a one-time injury or some sort of chronic progressive issue?

Some days, that's harder to resist than others (HA!!). Any-who, the thing to keep in mind if you decide to take that advice and try a heavier racquet is that you'll need time to become accustomed to using it - and I mean more than just a weekend.

When we play for points, that's when we're focusing mostly on the other side of the net and swinging much more unconsciously in the process. Try and do that with a heavier, slower, unfamiliar racquet and you'll probably end up muscling it to the ball too much - and your shoulder, etc. won't love you anymore!!!

Please keep us posted, amigo.

Probably not near as much as I should. Bascially the only half-way consistent exercising I do other than tennis is running. At my peak I run between 20 and 30 miles a week. When I'm playing a lot of tennis (3 days a week) that number usually drops down to between 10 and 16.

Thank you!

I thought it was a one time injury...never really had back problems before. Now I'm wondering if all this has to do with my gallstones. The docs found that I have gallstones (through imaging taken for another reason) but I've never had any symptoms. For about the last 10 days I've had a pretty much constant 'pressure' (not really a pain, just a pressure that's annoying) under my bottom right rib. In what I've read online gallstone problems could actually be causing some of my backpain.

Thanks for the advice on sticking with the heavier racquet a good period of time. It seems like I need to be reminded of that on a weekly, and at times daily, basis!!

I appreciate the advice on not playing points. I've never done much of that in the past (except with my father back when he was still alive) but have always thought that I should be doing a lot more of it. At times I do just hit but that's typically only when I'm demoing racquets...so that doesn't help much at all since it's not the racquet I use.

I'm planning (if my body doesn't fall apart before then) to play all three USTA leagues next year as well as some tournaments. I haven't played anything other than mixed doubles league since 2005. If I can get my body to where nothing is hurting I plan on getting in great shape and playing a lot more tennis so I'll be able to help my teams next year.

I'll definitely keep your advice in mind! Thanks for taking the time to reply!!!

TripleB