Solution to doping problems

[sureshs]

I have come up with an ingenious solution.

Find the contamination level of banned substances found in legitimate OTC and prescription drugs, due to manufacturing/raw material issues. Lots of tests are needed to find this and many would be legally contested by the manufacturers. Let the chance of contamination be x%.

(If the testing is caught up in courts, no doping agency shall list the substances as banned. This shifts the onus from the athlete to the doping agencies and manufacturers.)

Study how much x% contamination contributes to levels in urine and blood tests. Say it comes out to be y%. This needs extensive research. If the results are not published and verified, again the substance cannot be banned.

If the test shows a level beyond y%, athlete should be charged, else not.

This will hold the doping agencies and manufacturers and government regulators accountable first, and only then the athletes.

 

[happyandbob]

Or just legalize it because it's obvious they're all doping anyway and it's an even bigger advantage for the richer athletes who can pay for more elaborate masking efforts

 

[sureshs]

Or just legalize it because it's obvious they're all doping anyway and it's an even bigger advantage for the richer athletes who can pay for more elaborate masking efforts

They are not all doping. That is just a cool thing to say and has no proof.
My suggestion is to hold the manufacturers/distributors/government regulators accountable first, and only then the athletes.
The current situation is like a corrupt airport security guy sliding drugs into a suitcase and then catching the passenger.

 

[happyandbob]

They are not all doping. That is just a cool thing to say and has no proof.
My suggestion is to hold the manufacturers/distributors/government regulators accountable first, and only then the athletes.
The current situation is like a corrupt airport security guy sliding drugs into a suitcase and then catching the passenger.

Almost all high level athletes are doping... because they have to if they want to be competitive. It's an open secret because it's unsavory to admit it.

Everyone knew Lance Armstrong was doping even though he had never been caught. How? Because they were all doping and he was killing them!

 

[sureshs]

Almost all high level athletes are doping... because they have to if they want to be competitive. It's an open secret because it's unsavory to admit it.

Everyone knew Lance Armstrong was doping even though he had never been caught. How? Because they were all doping and he was killing them!

No tennis player is killing other players though.

 

[brewcrew]

Or they could create their own compounding pharmacy and reseller with stringent testing and sell to the players at cost to remove the likelihood of contamination.

 

[happyandbob]

No tennis player is killing other players though.

You have to be doping to compete with the physicality of today's game. Hitting max effort with back and forth sprinting for up to 5 hours? Definitely doping.

 

[tennis3]

How about keep testing but never find anything?

Unless you want to punish a player. Then you can blindside them.

It's also good to ban the #999 player in the world from time to time. Just to show you're tough on doping

 

[vokazu]

Ban every positive doping test player for life. That's the only way. No excuses.

Then everyone will be extremely careful with what they consume and tennis will be clean.

 

[NattyGut]

I have come up with an ingenious solution.

Find the contamination level of banned substances found in legitimate OTC and prescription drugs, due to manufacturing/raw material issues. Lots of tests are needed to find this and many would be legally contested by the manufacturers. Let the chance of contamination be x%.

(If the testing is caught up in courts, no doping agency shall list the substances as banned. This shifts the onus from the athlete to the doping agencies and manufacturers.)

Study how much x% contamination contributes to levels in urine and blood tests. Say it comes out to be y%. This needs extensive research. If the results are not published and verified, again the substance cannot be banned.

If the test shows a level beyond y%, athlete should be charged, else not.

This will hold the doping agencies and manufacturers and government regulators accountable first, and only then the athletes.

This is your brain on drugs (eggs)

 

[tennis3]

Ban every positive doping test player for life. That's the only way. No excuses.

Then everyone will be extremely careful with what they consume and tennis will be clean.

Do you think that's enough? I'd execute them on the spot.

"In other news, Jannik Sinner was executed today. Seems he had a Poppy Seed bagel for lunch"

 

[Purestriker]

Ban every positive doping test player for life. That's the only way. No excuses.

Then everyone will be extremely careful with what they consume and tennis will be clean.

Better speed up the courts, otherwise these players won't make it through a season.

 

[uscwang]

I have come up with an ingenious solution.

Find the contamination level of banned substances found in legitimate OTC and prescription drugs, due to manufacturing/raw material issues. Lots of tests are needed to find this and many would be legally contested by the manufacturers. Let the chance of contamination be x%.

(If the testing is caught up in courts, no doping agency shall list the substances as banned. This shifts the onus from the athlete to the doping agencies and manufacturers.)

Study how much x% contamination contributes to levels in urine and blood tests. Say it comes out to be y%. This needs extensive research. If the results are not published and verified, again the substance cannot be banned.

If the test shows a level beyond y%, athlete should be charged, else not.

This will hold the doping agencies and manufacturers and government regulators accountable first, and only then the athletes.

This is meant for Italy or all countries?

 

[happyandbob]

No tennis player is killing other players though.

ahem Djokovic Nadal

 

[Bartelby]

Ingenious but expensive and therefore with zero chances to impress a parsimonious bureaucracy.

I have come up with an ingenious solution.

Find the contamination level of banned substances found in legitimate OTC and prescription drugs, due to manufacturing/raw material issues. Lots of tests are needed to find this and many would be legally contested by the manufacturers. Let the chance of contamination be x%.

(If the testing is caught up in courts, no doping agency shall list the substances as banned. This shifts the onus from the athlete to the doping agencies and manufacturers.)

Study how much x% contamination contributes to levels in urine and blood tests. Say it comes out to be y%. This needs extensive research. If the results are not published and verified, again the substance cannot be banned.

If the test shows a level beyond y%, athlete should be charged, else not.

This will hold the doping agencies and manufacturers and government regulators accountable first, and only then the athletes.

 

[sureshs]

Ingenious

Thanks

 

[Arak]

Or just legalize it because it's obvious they're all doping anyway and it's an even bigger advantage for the richer athletes who can pay for more elaborate masking efforts

Legalising doping will bring other problems. Right now athletes are extremely careful with their doping routines. They do microdosing and flushing and whatever is required to remain undetected. Can you imagine if you give them free rein to take whatever they want?

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

I have come up with an ingenious solution.

Find the contamination level of banned substances found in legitimate OTC and prescription drugs, due to manufacturing/raw material issues. Lots of tests are needed to find this and many would be legally contested by the manufacturers.

A manufacturer should only be required to produce a pharmaceutically safe product for the general public. Period.
Not meet some arbitrary strict low-level doping testing threshold that is not relevant to 99.9% of the population.
Do not get manufacturers involved. That is absurd. That is an overreach.

 

[Rosstour]

No tennis player is killing other players though.

Sinner is out there absolutely killing everyone outside of Alcaraz

Maybe someone should test him?

 

[Robert F]

Wouldn't this give the dopers a larger margin of error to play with with masking agents and tapering of PEDs.
"Hey, the general contamination rate of TMZ is 1.5%, so I can now play with 1.5% of it in my system and just meet contanimation guidelines."

To me the hard part is "contanimation." First, it's not just supplements that can be contanimated. It can be lotions (Sinner), meat (Moore), kiss (Gasquet), regular food and drink. So what is an athlete supposed to do? Test everything he eats and drink with a lab? It's impossible and unfair to athletes. On top of it, if you got a supplement or RX cleared in one batch, it may not be clear later.

That's unfortunately why we have a system that gives some leeway based on the facts presented by both sides.
Low level of drug in system and clear examples of contanimation with other samples of the supplement means low level punishment and that's what happened with Iga.
And cynics like me can ponder if she was off-timed her PED cycle and it was still detectable, a masking agent was off or she had coconspirators able to produce other contanimated specimens.

 

[Tennis Devolution]

I have come up with an ingenious solution.

Find the contamination level of banned substances found in legitimate OTC and prescription drugs, due to manufacturing/raw material issues. Lots of tests are needed to find this and many would be legally contested by the manufacturers. Let the chance of contamination be x%.

(If the testing is caught up in courts, no doping agency shall list the substances as banned. This shifts the onus from the athlete to the doping agencies and manufacturers.)

Study how much x% contamination contributes to levels in urine and blood tests. Say it comes out to be y%. This needs extensive research. If the results are not published and verified, again the substance cannot be banned.

If the test shows a level beyond y%, athlete should be charged, else not.

This will hold the doping agencies and manufacturers and government regulators accountable first, and only then the athletes.

No, this will not work because ANY LEVEL of ANY PED has a PED EFFECT and since "contamination" cannot be always reliably effectively distinguished from the various phases of a cycle of PED use.

 

[Tennis Devolution]

Wouldn't this give the dopers a larger margin of error to play with with masking agents and tapering of PEDs.
"Hey, the general contamination rate of TMZ is 1.5%, so I can now play with 1.5% of it in my system and just meet contanimation guidelines."

To me the hard part is "contanimation." First, it's not just supplements that can be contanimated. It can be lotions (Sinner), meat (Moore), kiss (Gasquet), regular food and drink. So what is an athlete supposed to do? Test everything he eats and drink with a lab? It's impossible and unfair to athletes. On top of it, if you got a supplement or RX cleared in one batch, it may not be clear later.

That's unfortunately why we have a system that gives some leeway based on the facts presented by both sides.
Low level of drug in system and clear examples of contanimation with other samples of the supplement means low level punishment and that's what happened with Iga.
And cynics like me can ponder if she was off-timed her PED cycle and it was still detectable, a masking agent was off or she had coconspirators able to produce other contanimated specimens.

ANY LEVEL of ANY PED has a PED EFFECT and "contamination" cannot be always reliably effectively distinguished from the various phases of a cycle of PED use. Contamination with substances considered to be PEDs can be avoided just like contracting disease can be avoided. What is considered to be a "PED" is also completely subjective so there is no objective reason to "ban" any form of "PED".

 

[Tennis Devolution]

Legalising doping will bring other problems. Right now athletes are extremely careful with their doping routines. They do microdosing and flushing and whatever is required to remain undetected. Can you imagine if you give them free rein to take whatever they want?

What is considerered to be a "PED" is completely subjective so thus there is absolutely no objective reason to "ban" any form of "PED".

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

Don't we all just love these opinionated New Users!

 

[Tennis Devolution]

Don't we all just love these opinionated New Users!

Nothing wrong with speaking the truth!

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

To me the hard part is "contanimation." First, it's not just supplements that can be contanimated. It can be lotions (Sinner), meat (Moore), kiss (Gasquet), regular food and drink. So what is an athlete supposed to do?

Contamination is everywhere. The FDA permits a certain level of rodent droppings in food products.
The notion of holding supplement manufacturers to strict doping contamination standards is absurd.

 

[ppma]

Posted without thinking twice. Or even once.

 

[Jonas78]

At least to me, the Sinner case presents a new problem. If his story is plausible (which experts say it is), then its not enough to control your own food, creams or whatever anymore. You need to have 100% control on what everyone around you does, and thats a little too much for an athlete imo. I dont have the solution.

 

[Bartelby]

A tennis player hires a team so the number belonging to Sinner's team is quite small and, yes, the doping rules make him responsible both for what he or his team does to his body.

At least to me, the Sinner case presents a new problem. If his story is plausible (which experts say it is), then its not enough to control your own food, creams or whatever anymore. You need to have 100% control on what everyone around you does, and thats a little too much for an athlete imo. I dont have the solution.

 

[sureshs]

A manufacturer should only be required to produce a pharmaceutically safe product for the general public. Period.
Not meet some arbitrary strict low-level doping testing threshold that is not relevant to 99.9% of the population.
Do not get manufacturers involved. That is absurd. That is an overreach.

Good. Then apply the general public standard to athletes as well. No one is firing you from your job for using contaminated melatonin, but athletes are.

 

[sureshs]

No, this will not work because ANY LEVEL of ANY PED has a PED EFFECT and since "contamination" cannot be always reliably effectively distinguished from the various phases of a cycle of PED use.

Then that is a limitation of pharmaceutical testing. The burden is not on athletes to overcome issues of chemistry.

 

[Robert F]

ANY LEVEL of ANY PED has a PED EFFECT and "contamination" cannot be always reliably effectively distinguished from the various phases of a cycle of PED use. Contamination with substances considered to be PEDs can be avoided just like contracting disease can be avoided. What is considered to be a "PED" is also completely subjective so there is no objective reason to "ban" any form of "PED".

I believe "ANY LEVEL OF ANDY PED has a PED EFFECT" just isn't true. At one point there is a level that does not have a significant effect on performance or physiology. But to figure that out for each and every PED may be very difficult.

Your other point though is the harder part. If using masking agents or down cycling a PED, it might get picked up at very low levels that look like contanimation. Hard to distinquish what it is at that point.
You could argue if I had a clean test on Oct 1, a very low level positive on Oct 7 and a clean test on Oct 14, it is more likely to be contanimation. But, you could argue since it was at the end of a cycle it will be hard to pick up or they upped the masking agent after testing positive.

 

[Tennis Devolution]

I believe "ANY LEVEL OF ANDY PED has a PED EFFECT" just isn't true. At one point there is a level that does not have a significant effect on performance or physiology. But to figure that out for each and every PED may be very difficult.

Your other point though is the harder part. If using masking agents or down cycling a PED, it might get picked up at very low levels that look like contanimation. Hard to distinquish what it is at that point.
You could argue if I had a clean test on Oct 1, a very low level positive on Oct 7 and a clean test on Oct 14, it is more likely to be contanimation. But, you could argue since it was at the end of a cycle it will be hard to pick up or they upped the masking agent after testing positive.

Any level of any drug scientifically and objectively has an effect on a biological living system. Whether or not that effect is considered "significant" is completely subjective.

 

[Tennis Devolution]

Then that is a limitation of pharmaceutical testing. The burden is not on athletes to overcome issues of chemistry.

The point is is that scientifically and objectively, it is impossible to determine the "intentions" of anyone by looking at concentrations of different PEDs.

 

[jackson vile]

Or just legalize it because it's obvious they're all doping anyway and it's an even bigger advantage for the richer athletes who can pay for more elaborate masking efforts

Damn, that’s a really good point

 

[Djokodalerer31]

You have to be doping to compete with the physicality of today's game. Hitting max effort with back and forth sprinting for up to 5 hours? Definitely doping.

If we were to completely inherit this line of thinking, then everyone should get equal treatment then and nobody singled out in the way they are perceived by public, no disgracing, no mocking and ridiculing of any sort, since we all agree they ALL do it anyway...

 

[mtommer]

This will hold the doping agencies and manufacturers and government regulators accountable first, and only then the athletes.

Agencies, mayybeee. Funding to do this may be...to much to make it unfeasible. That may be the actual reality vs. perceived reality.

As far as mfg's go, they don't develop for doping. They develop for medical conditions and others take that knowledge and abuse it. Frankly, mfg's should care less about who is abusing their products for doping. They have other things to focus on. Put another way, they are not the problem unless they certify product "x" is free of this or that.

Perhaps the agencies should fund a product verfication process whereby athletes are to submit what they use for immediate testing prior to use without any exemption currently in place for said product. No testing, zero tolerance. This way the athletes are responsible but with a realistic avenue to prevent contamination. Again, funding may be an issue.

 

[happyandbob]

If we were to completely inherit this line of thinking, then everyone should get equal treatment then and nobody singled out in the way they are perceived by public, no disgracing, no mocking and ridiculing of any sort, since we all agree they ALL do it anyway...

I agree. They're all doing it anyway.

 

[vokazu]

You have to be doping to compete with the physicality of today's game. Hitting max effort with back and forth sprinting for up to 5 hours? Definitely doping.

Well there are a lot of players who often get injured or retired in long matches or Slams. Not everybody is doping.

 

[Sudacafan]

They are not all doping. That is just a cool thing to say and has no proof.

I have no proof that they are all doping, but I'm pretty sure that they're all doping.

 

[vokazu]

How do you hold cocaine manufacturer accountable?

It's not the manufacturers who dope. It's the athletes. Ban positive doping athletes for life. That's the only solution.

 

[Sudacafan]

How do you hold cocaine manufacturer accountable?

It's not the manufacturers who dope. It's the athletes. Ban positive doping athletes for life. That's the only solution.

Ban all people who consume drugs for/from life. That is the only solution.

 

[sureshs]

How do you hold cocaine manufacturer accountable?

They are actually held accountable.

 

[vokazu]

Ban all people who consume drugs for/from life. That is the only solution.

Ban them from what?

 

[Sudacafan]

Ban them from what?

Please don't be so touchy with the use of prepositions.

 

[Sudacafan]

How do you hold cocaine manufacturer accountable?

Make them pay taxes?

 

[TennisBro]

I have come up with an ingenious solution.

Find the contamination level of banned substances found in legitimate OTC and prescription drugs, due to manufacturing/raw material issues. Lots of tests are needed to find this and many would be legally contested by the manufacturers. Let the chance of contamination be x%.

(If the testing is caught up in courts, no doping agency shall list the substances as banned. This shifts the onus from the athlete to the doping agencies and manufacturers.)

Study how much x% contamination contributes to levels in urine and blood tests. Say it comes out to be y%. This needs extensive research. If the results are not published and verified, again the substance cannot be banned.

If the test shows a level beyond y%, athlete should be charged, else not.

This will hold the doping agencies and manufacturers and government regulators accountable first, and only then the athletes.

I like your mathematical suggestion. There's a lot of contamination in many products nowadays and that not only is about Big Pharma but all sorts of food and drinks producers. The hard core ones that claim ban everyone who's found guilty do not realize all the aspects of the issue. The problem with your proposition may be that large corporations and the powers of tennis have it easier to target the working class which in this case is the players than the wealthy CEOs and their investors that depend on yield from a stock.

 

[vokazu]

Make them pay taxes?

How can you make them pay taxes if they have machine guns to kill you in an instant or that they own the government and the police force?

 

[Bartelby]

Should Britain pay China reparations for selling them opium?

Ban all people who consume drugs for/from life. That is the only solution.

 

[TennisBro]

Should Britain pay China reparations for selling them opium?

The Roehampton powers should tighten up their own belts and stop politicizing the sport.