Some Big 3 H2H Stats - from ATP Pro Tour

RaulRamirez

Hall of Fame

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
It surprises me that Nadal is last in the points metric tbh. Only a percentage point difference so basically negligible, but on a point to point basis I've always thought of Nadal as the toughest to beat in that he's exceptionally good at just moving onto the next point. He's also more dominant on clay than either of Djokovic and Federer are on grass and HC.

And I think it would surprise almost everyone that Djokovic isn't #1 in the returning category, and also that Federer is first in first serve return points won.

But I've always thought Nadal was very good at converting BPs, even more so than Djokovic which is in some correlation to him being #1 in second serve pts won. My feeling is based on nothing specific, just over the years watching Nadal, when he gets a BP my overwhelming feeling is that he's about to convert it. This is in direct contrast to Federer of course.

And Federer being #1 in first serve return pts is somewhat surprising I guess, but at the same time I think Federer does win a lot of return points, just not the most crucial ones that often :mad:
 

RaulRamirez

Hall of Fame
It surprises me that Nadal is last in the points metric tbh. Only a percentage point difference so basically negligible, but on a point to point basis I've always thought of Nadal as the toughest to beat in that he's exceptionally good at just moving onto the next point. He's also more dominant on clay than either of Djokovic and Federer are on grass and HC.

And I think it would surprise almost everyone that Djokovic isn't #1 in the returning category, and also that Federer is first in first serve return points won.

But I've always thought Nadal was very good at converting BPs, even more so than Djokovic which is in some correlation to him being #1 in second serve pts won. My feeling is based on nothing specific, just over the years watching Nadal, when he gets a BP my overwhelming feeling is that he's about to convert it. This is in direct contrast to Federer of course.

And Federer being #1 in first serve return pts is somewhat surprising I guess, but at the same time I think Federer does win a lot of return points, just not the most crucial ones that often :mad:
Those were fairly similar to my takeaways, although perhaps, I had the general idea that Fed did (relatively) better on first serves than second.
 
Draw your own conclusions - I'm not posting this to advocate for or against anyone.
Do any of these stats surprise anyone?
Anything interesting?

Be civil, please - these may be the three greatest tennis players we've ever seen, and possibly ever will.

Happy birthday buddy.
 

zipplock

Professional
Shows how close they really are, and all playing a different style of tennis too. Proof that there is more than one way to suceed.
 

MeatTornado

Legend
It surprises me that Nadal is last in the points metric tbh. Only a percentage point difference so basically negligible, but on a point to point basis I've always thought of Nadal as the toughest to beat in that he's exceptionally good at just moving onto the next point. He's also more dominant on clay than either of Djokovic and Federer are on grass and HC.

And I think it would surprise almost everyone that Djokovic isn't #1 in the returning category, and also that Federer is first in first serve return points won.

But I've always thought Nadal was very good at converting BPs, even more so than Djokovic which is in some correlation to him being #1 in second serve pts won. My feeling is based on nothing specific, just over the years watching Nadal, when he gets a BP my overwhelming feeling is that he's about to convert it. This is in direct contrast to Federer of course.

And Federer being #1 in first serve return pts is somewhat surprising I guess, but at the same time I think Federer does win a lot of return points, just not the most crucial ones that often :mad:
That is kind of surprising. We've always known that Federer is a better 1st serve returner than 2nd serve returner, but I didn't think his 1st serve return was literally better than Djokovic. I've always said he's my top pick if I needed someone to return BIG serves (Roddick, Isner, etc) but overall across their careers I still though Novak would've worked out the edge here.

As for Nadal, he does great to fight for every point no matter what but he's also fighting an uphill battle because he's losing so many more points on his own serve than Federer and Djokovic are. So his overall numbers are always going to get dragged down because of that. He's not someone that's going to rack up 4 or 5 holds to love each match.
 

JoshuaPim

Rookie
he's also fighting an uphill battle because he's losing so many more points on his own serve than Federer and Djokovic are. So his overall numbers are always going to get dragged down because of that. He's not someone that's going to rack up 4 or 5 holds to love each match.
Well he's the same height so his lesser serve must go down as a technical weakness. Federer serves like somebody 6'6 or 6'7 by contrast. As for the article, comparing players of different generations by the same criteria, is a bit silly.
 

MeatTornado

Legend
Well he's the same height so his lesser serve must go down as a technical weakness. Federer serves like somebody 6'6 or 6'7 by contrast. As for the article, comparing players of different generations by the same criteria, is a bit silly.
It's not like I was making excuses for him. Just stating the fact, he wins less points off his own serve. Everyone knows it's a worse shot than Federer's.
 

Yugram

Legend
That is kind of surprising. We've always known that Federer is a better 1st serve returner than 2nd serve returner, but I didn't think his 1st serve return was literally better than Djokovic. I've always said he's my top pick if I needed someone to return BIG serves (Roddick, Isner, etc) but overall across their careers I still though Novak would've worked out the edge here.

As for Nadal, he does great to fight for every point no matter what but he's also fighting an uphill battle because he's losing so many more points on his own serve than Federer and Djokovic are. So his overall numbers are always going to get dragged down because of that. He's not someone that's going to rack up 4 or 5 holds to love each match.
Not the case since 2019, even though one year doesn’t change the overall career picture much.
 
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