Some incredible points and Federer's first choking moments against Djokovic. And why Djokovic abandoned aggression ?

ForehandCross

Hall of Fame

Simply WOW at Djokovic's shot making. In this game the guy is bullying Federer, and then goes toe to toe with him later on in the two sets once Federer realizes that this guy is for real and starts throwing his best at him, and I daresay on this occasion he is better than Federer even in that department.

I really don't understand why Djokovic stopped being this aggressive . It's not like he was making too many errors. He won 2008 AO playing like this. But something changed Midway through 2008.

He won't bring similar confidence until 2011. Did his losses to Nadal on Clay hampered his immediate rise?
 

beard

Hall of Fame
Federer's agression and Novak's non agression stories are overblown... :rolleyes:

Look at this video how often Federer slices, and that's not agression. Nowadays he slices against Novak a lot too, not only at grass. Federer regularly runs more than Federer in their matchup...

Novak use controlled agression for long time now, Federer is more about "I will slap ball hard because I can't beat his defense, and hope ball fall in" (remember his the famous slapping interview?)...
 

RS

Legend

Simply WOW at Djokovic's shot making. In this game the guy is bullying Federer, and then goes toe to toe with him later on in the two sets once Federer realizes that this guy is for real and starts throwing his best at him, and I daresay on this occasion he is better than Federer even in that department.

I really don't understand why Djokovic stopped being this aggressive . It's not like he was making too many errors. He won 2008 AO playing like this. But something changed Midway through 2008.

He won't bring similar confidence until 2011. Did his losses to Nadal on Clay hampered his immediate rise?
Could be the Madrid 09 epic which changed things. I would say 10 is were Djokovic regressed. Then when Becker came in the team as well a bit in terms of attacking play.
 
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SonnyT

Hall of Fame
"I really don't understand why Djokovic stopped being this aggressive . It's not like he was making too many errors. He won 2008 AO playing like this. But something changed Midway through 2008."

He only knew about the gluten allergy at 2010's end, so was hampered in many long, physical matches by breathing difficulties. BTW, this could be seen in many videos of pre-'11 matches, where he had to constantly breathe thru his mouth.
 

Third Serve

G.O.A.T.
Federer's agression and Novak's non agression stories are overblown... :rolleyes:

Look at this video how often Federer slices, and that's not agression. Nowadays he slices against Novak a lot too, not only at grass. Federer regularly runs more than Federer in their matchup...

Novak use controlled agression for long time now, Federer is more about "I will slap ball hard because I can't beat his defense, and hope ball fall in" (remember his the famous slapping interview?)...
Don’t tell me you actually believe this.
 

metsman

G.O.A.T.
Fed had over double the winners Djokovic did in this match (and double the UFE so it's not like Djokovic was forcing tons of errors). It's clear who the consistent aggressor is. This is why we don't make judgements about matches (or even whole career trends!) based on a 4 minute highlight clip. Controlled aggression and consistently controlling play is not the same as taking big cuts at the occassional ball for a big winner. The latter is what Djokovic did in his 07 matches vs Fed (plenty of cool shots on the highlight reel, but on average fewer than 6-7 winners a set while Fed was consistently double and sometimes even triple that). The former is what he did with some success in 2008 and a lot of success in 2011 but was unable to quite recapture that formula the next few years. 15 onwards, he could have played just about any style he wanted due to no one being close to his level.
 

NADALalot

Hall of Fame
He only won ONE slam (2008ao) by being aggressive, so it wasn't getting him enough success.
Plus his stamina improved in late-2010, so he became suited to grinding.
 
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Krish0608

Hall of Fame
He only won ONE slam (2008ao) by being aggressive, so it wasn't getting him enough success.
Plus his stamina improved in late-2011, so he became suited to grinding.
Djokovic played lethal attacking tennis from the baseline in 2011. That is one of the highest sustained levels I have seen on a tennis court. It's crazy what Djokovic did in 2011. "Grinding" is not it.
 

NADALalot

Hall of Fame
Djokovic played lethal attacking tennis from the baseline in 2011. That is one of the highest sustained levels I have seen on a tennis court. It's crazy what Djokovic did in 2011. "Grinding" is not it.
Then why were the rallies so long in that 2011 US Open Final?
Djokovic out-grinded Rafa.
And Rafa allowed him to by continuing to go cross-court instead of down-the-line (whereas at 2010uso and 2013uso Rafa went down-the-line and Djokovic had no answer).
 

RS

Legend
Then why were the rallies so long in that 2011 US Open Final?
Djokovic out-grinded Rafa.
And Rafa allowed him to by continuing to go cross-court instead of down-the-line (whereas at 2010uso and 2013uso Rafa went down-the-line and Djokovic had no answer).
Djokovic was worse in 10/13 than in 11/15 though. It is really bout 10/13 Rafa vs 11/15 Nole at the USO.
 

The Blond Blur

Hall of Fame
Federer's agression and Novak's non agression stories are overblown... :rolleyes:

Look at this video how often Federer slices, and that's not agression. Nowadays he slices against Novak a lot too, not only at grass. Federer regularly runs more than Federer in their matchup...

Novak use controlled agression for long time now, Federer is more about "I will slap ball hard because I can't beat his defense, and hope ball fall in" (remember his the famous slapping interview?)...
 

SonnyT

Hall of Fame
He only won ONE slam (2008ao) by being aggressive, so it wasn't getting him enough success.
Plus his stamina improved in late-2010, so he became suited to grinding.
Go rewatch the tapes of all the 2011 Nadal-Djokovic matches. Djokovic was the aggressor, Nadal was the defender. We already know who were the winner and loser, for all 6 of them!
 

BackhandDTL

Professional
Go rewatch the tapes of all the 2011 Nadal-Djokovic matches. Djokovic was the aggressor, Nadal was the defender. We already know who were the winner and loser, for all 6 of them!
Meh Nadals backhand and serve regressed severely in 2011.
 

Gazelle

Legend
I really don't understand why Djokovic stopped being this aggressive . It's not like he was making too many errors. He won 2008 AO playing like this. But something changed Midway through 2008.
He met Murray a few times mid 2008, lost to him and realized the true way of playing the game.
 

NADALalot

Hall of Fame
Go rewatch the tapes of all the 2011 Nadal-Djokovic matches. Djokovic was the aggressor, Nadal was the defender. We already know who were the winner and loser, for all 6 of them!
We aren't comparing the aggression of 2011-Djokovic to 2011-Nadal, we are comparing the aggression of 2011-Djokovic to 2008AO-Djokovic.
Djokovic was more aggressive in 2008, because that was his only card.
After 2010 his stamina was greatly enhanced, and he became more of a grinder.
The 2011 US Open Final wasn't all about aggression, if you bothered to watch it, you wouldn't see Djokovic blasting winners and ending the points quickly. You'd see lots of long rallies and Djokovic relying on athleticism. Again, Djokovic was more aggressive than Nadal in the 2011 US Open Final, but there was plenty of grinding on both sides.
 

NADALalot

Hall of Fame
Nadal was easily the more aggressive baseliner in their 2018 Wimbledon match.
Djokovic had an edge with the serve though, and he served 1st in the 5th Set which helped build the pressure.

And 2013 US Open Nadal used the forehand down-the-line to overpower Djokovic, same as 2010 US Open.

Nadal was also the more aggressive player in the 2014 French Open Final - Djokovic was moving a lot better than Nadal in the 4th Set, but Nadal had the superior strokeplay.
Toni said he was worried about Nadal's physical condition and whether he'd have enough energy left for a 5th Set.
 

NADALalot

Hall of Fame
I wish I still had the stats of 2018 US Open, because I remember we looked at Djokovic's winners and unforced errors in the QF, SF and Final, and he had an extremely small number of winners, and had significantly more unforced errors. Nadal would have beaten Djokovic at that US Open, if Thiem didn't wreck Nadal's body....
 
Yeah, but you can guess what I really wanted to write... ;)
Yes.
Ever since 2013, Djokovic's game against fed has always been to move the ball, and expose his FH movement.
Fed's game is all about striking with serve, junkballing and taking big cuts on sitters.
And I have no shame in saying that Djokovic has had a better forehand than roger since 2013.
 

lucky13

Rookie
It was a great time to be a Djokovic fan, I knew he was ready to beat Federer that season, and it came in impressive fashion. 2007 was a fantastic breakout year for him.
not just noles but the year of serbian tennis breakthrough. when NAJ(J) (nole, ana, JJ (and janko)) broke out of nowhere. and then there was ziki in doubles as well and a little later came troicki. that year nole finished as no3, ana and JJ as no4 and 5 and ziki as double no5. and already next year ziki was double no1 and JJ and ana changed 1st and 2nd place on WTA ranking.



 
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ledwix

Hall of Fame
He was more extravagantly aggressive against Federer then because he thought he had to be. Shots like 2:29 would almost never be attempted today except on throwaway points.

These days, he would usually spin that ball back, safe and deep, confident that he can beat Federer while taking very few risks if he just plays it straightforward. And if he hit down the line, he wouldn't slap it.

Basically, he used to think Federer was better than him. Not anymore.
 

King No1e

G.O.A.T.

Simply WOW at Djokovic's shot making. In this game the guy is bullying Federer, and then goes toe to toe with him later on in the two sets once Federer realizes that this guy is for real and starts throwing his best at him, and I daresay on this occasion he is better than Federer even in that department.

I really don't understand why Djokovic stopped being this aggressive . It's not like he was making too many errors. He won 2008 AO playing like this. But something changed Midway through 2008.

He won't bring similar confidence until 2011. Did his losses to Nadal on Clay hampered his immediate rise?
The aggression was certainly still there in 2011 during that stretch. He was a beast both on attack and defense.
The raw high-risk aggression was toned down more after Becker. He traded it for efficiency and bigger serving, and it worked wonders for him (although I will always miss pre-2014 aggressive Djoker)
 
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