Some interesting (non) DQ's

schmke

schmke

Legend
Someone shared with me a couple of (non) DQ's from Eastern Sectionals so I went ahead and took a look at them to see if my ratings agreed. Once again, they did!

http://tennislink.usta.com/Leagues/...97D9D1D0C7368514FB1A69483FAE&par2=2013&par3=0 steamrolled through Sectionals not dropping a set and dishing out six 6-1 or 6-0 sets, and his team expected him to be DQ'd, but he wasn't. I showed him likely having just one strike.

http://tennislink.usta.com/Leagues/...F8E05E74B5846B6A59480F6E4D4C&par2=2013&par3=0 also won at sectionals, but 3 of his 4 matches were match tie-break wins. Surprisingly, he did get DQ'd. I showed him actually having 4 strikes, but the last two were on the same day so I'm guessing they weren't able to do the calculations between matches and he was allowed to play the 2nd one that day.

See http://computerratings.blogspot.com/2013/09/more-unexpected-dqs-and-non-dqs.html for a longer write-up with charts.
 
schmke said:
Someone shared with me a couple of (non) DQ's from Eastern Sectionals so I went ahead and took a look at them to see if my ratings agreed. Once again, they did!

http://tennislink.usta.com/Leagues/...97D9D1D0C7368514FB1A69483FAE&par2=2013&par3=0 steamrolled through Sectionals not dropping a set and dishing out six 6-1 or 6-0 sets, and his team expected him to be DQ'd, but he wasn't. I showed him likely having just one strike.

http://tennislink.usta.com/Leagues/...F8E05E74B5846B6A59480F6E4D4C&par2=2013&par3=0 also won at sectionals, but 3 of his 4 matches were match tie-break wins. Surprisingly, he did get DQ'd. I showed him actually having 4 strikes, but the last two were on the same day so I'm guessing they weren't able to do the calculations between matches and he was allowed to play the 2nd one that day.

See http://computerratings.blogspot.com/2013/09/more-unexpected-dqs-and-non-dqs.html for a longer write-up with charts.
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The second guy, one of his strikes is against a TT poster!
 
I didn't realize it was by district.

I play in Greenville and Spartanburg

I believe the actual leagues are UPTA and SATL

BTW thanks for doing this !
 
******* Section

Have you done any calculations on the the *******? We were watching a player in our men's 4.0 bracket that we were sure was going to be Dq'd. He wasn't.
 
Kevin,

any chance you would post Charleston, SC ?

Charleston is going to split into two separate areas in 2014. Once split the two areas will still be among the largest in the state.
 
g4driver said:
Kevin,

any chance you would post Charleston, SC ?

Charleston is going to split into two separate areas in 2014. Once split the two areas will still be among the largest in the state.
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I emailed Kevin yesterday in regards to Charleston, SC his email back to me last night stated he's almost done with the 2013 Southern Section and it should be up in a day or two.
 
Chivo said:
I emailed Kevin yesterday in regards to Charleston, SC his email back to me last night stated he's almost done with the 2013 Southern Section and it should be up in a day or two.
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Sorry..it was tennisleaguestats that I contacted. Should've read the original post...my bad.
 
Saw the Southern TLS Ratings. These estimated DNTRPs don't look accurate at all for many of the guys my local venue. Kevin's estimate for my DNTRP and TLS are 0.16 apart. Time will tell.

TLS has some 60+ year 4.0 guys who can't move and who are regularly beat down by many 3.5s in doubles (the 60+ guys don't play singles) rated more than 0.1 above a 35 year 4.0 who is one of the top 4.0s in the area. This 4.0s rating is way off.

It actually has one 60 year guy who won 2 matches out of 11, rated at 3.61 and a 39 year 4.5 rated at 3.62. This 4.5 is the best singles player at our venue, and the second best doubles player at our venue.

If TLS is accurate, the USTA NTRP system is abysmal.
 
g4driver said:
Saw the Southern TLS Ratings. These estimated DNTRPs don't look accurate at all for many of the guys my local venue. Kevin's estimate for my DNTRP and TLS are 0.16 apart. Time will tell.

TLS has some 60+ year 4.0 guys who can't move and who are regularly beat down by many 3.5s in doubles (the 60+ guys don't play singles) rated more than 0.1 above a 35 year 4.0 who is one of the top 4.0s in the area. This 4.0s rating is way off.

It actually has one 60 year guy who won 2 matches out of 11, rated at 3.61 and a 39 year 4.5 rated at 3.62. This 4.5 is the best singles player at our venue, and the second best doubles player at our venue.

If TLS is accurate, the USTA NTRP system is abysmal.
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E-mail me who these sample players are and if I have calculated their ratings, I'll comment where I have them so we can compare.

FWIW, while I have not done any kind of comprehensive comparison, every time I have done spot check comparisons of players between TLS and myself, I have never been worse and am usually more accurate. I do these checks by looking at year-end or early start bumps as that is a situation where we know a rating is above/below a certain threshold.
 
g4driver said:
Saw the Southern TLS Ratings. These estimated DNTRPs don't look accurate at all for many of the guys my local venue. Kevin's estimate for my DNTRP and TLS are 0.16 apart. Time will tell.

TLS has some 60+ year 4.0 guys who can't move and who are regularly beat down by many 3.5s in doubles (the 60+ guys don't play singles) rated more than 0.1 above a 35 year 4.0 who is one of the top 4.0s in the area. This 4.0s rating is way off.

It actually has one 60 year guy who won 2 matches out of 11, rated at 3.61 and a 39 year 4.5 rated at 3.62. This 4.5 is the best singles player at our venue, and the second best doubles player at our venue.

If TLS is accurate, the USTA NTRP system is abysmal.
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There are numerous players whose DNTRP look out of whack in both Kevin's and TLS' ratings for my area. It's hard to know which one most closely mimics the USTA's formula.
 
Maui19 said:
There are numerous players whose DNTRP look out of whack in both Kevin's and TLS' ratings for my area. It's hard to know which one most closely mimics the USTA's formula.
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Keep in mind that the lists I've posted are usually as of a mid-year date, so won't necessarily agree with a year-end or early start bump. That said, let me know a few that are out of whack and I'll take a look and offer an explanation or admit I'm off.
 
I know it would be a lot of work so definitely not asking but curious how the relative team strength between sections would look like at nationals. (Before/After).
 
schmke said:
Someone shared with me a couple of (non) DQ's from Eastern Sectionals so I went ahead and took a look at them to see if my ratings agreed. Once again, they did!

http://tennislink.usta.com/Leagues/...97D9D1D0C7368514FB1A69483FAE&par2=2013&par3=0 steamrolled through Sectionals not dropping a set and dishing out six 6-1 or 6-0 sets, and his team expected him to be DQ'd, but he wasn't. I showed him likely having just one strike.

http://tennislink.usta.com/Leagues/...F8E05E74B5846B6A59480F6E4D4C&par2=2013&par3=0 also won at sectionals, but 3 of his 4 matches were match tie-break wins. Surprisingly, he did get DQ'd. I showed him actually having 4 strikes, but the last two were on the same day so I'm guessing they weren't able to do the calculations between matches and he was allowed to play the 2nd one that day.

See http://computerratings.blogspot.com/2013/09/more-unexpected-dqs-and-non-dqs.html for a longer write-up with charts.
Click to expand...

Strange. I played the guy who got DQed in sectionals and he was decent. Certainly not 5.0 level. My partner and I had a bad match. We were up big and let them hang around. The guy who wasn't DQed is really good. Looked like at least a 5.0 player. Is planning on going to a D1 school in the spring. He beat a current self-rate who is 1st singles at a D1 school (yes, they let that guy play 4.5!!!!) and only lost 5 games to him! Something seems fishy. In my other sectionals, there were also current D1 players on another team's roster. I have played D1 players who are 3 years out of college and are computer rated. Meanwhile, we tried to get a former D3 player who was not on a nationally ranked team, did not play 1st singles, and was not ranked in college tennis, and it spits out 5.0 and they won't move him down. Crazy!
 
coyote said:
I know it would be a lot of work so definitely not asking but curious how the relative team strength between sections would look like at nationals. (Before/After).
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This would interest me as well. Curious as how the projected ratings versus the actual results. I can't imagine much ratings manipulation at nationals.
 
coyote said:
I know it would be a lot of work so definitely not asking but curious how the relative team strength between sections would look like at nationals. (Before/After).
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I will try to do this, but you can get a decent idea of the strength between sections just by looking at records at Nationals and who advances to the semis from each sub-flight.
 
schmke said:
I will try to do this, but you can get a decent idea of the strength between sections just by looking at records at Nationals and who advances to the semis from each sub-flight.
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If you get this done, please accept thanks in advance. I am mostly curious how 4.5/4.0/etc before nationals compare to after nationals.

As a person who regularly deals with the Houston ratings market, I think Houston will do well but pretty sure the Houston ratings are artificially 'deflated.' I know they are stacked. On the flipside, Houston was an epic fail at 40s.
 
storypeddler said:
Hmmm...my team played in the district tournament at Lake Norman in June, but none of them are listed here. How come?
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What team? Or give me the name of a player and I'll see how I missed it. E-mail me if you don't want to post the info here (computerratings@techrunning.com)
 
Islandtennis said:
I don't think that is accurate G4
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http://www.lctatennis.org/Minutes_2_26_13_LCTA_Bd_Mtg.pdf

Straight from the horse's mouth, or per the LCTA 5-2 Vote on 2/26/2013

"The board voted 5-2 that Ken would inform USTA-SC that we intend to split into two leagues in 2014 and to explore the process of making this happen."

They could have back peddled since this was the last meeting minutes posted on the LCTA website, but I have a source that says this is still firmly in play.
 
Its not going to happen G4. The important phrases were"proposed that the board consider dividing LCTA into two leagues"

and "to explore the process of making this happen."

It never was a done deal
 
Well you seem to know more than us mushrooms.

If you say the issue is dead, do you have a date and a reference killing the proposal?

This issue might be dead in the water as of Sept 20th, but as of last month in mid- August, it was still very much in play. I have an email collaborating my statement.

The language was "The board voted 5-2 that Ken would inform USTA-SC that we intend to split into two leagues in 2014 and to explore the process of making this happen."

"We intend to spilt" seems unambiguous that the BOD (5-2) wanted to split. Evidently there are unresolved issues.
 
tennisjon said:
Strange. I played the guy who got DQed in sectionals and he was decent. Certainly not 5.0 level. My partner and I had a bad match. We were up big and let them hang around. The guy who wasn't DQed is really good. Looked like at least a 5.0 player. Is planning on going to a D1 school in the spring. He beat a current self-rate who is 1st singles at a D1 school (yes, they let that guy play 4.5!!!!) and only lost 5 games to him! Something seems fishy. In my other sectionals, there were also current D1 players on another team's roster. I have played D1 players who are 3 years out of college and are computer rated. Meanwhile, we tried to get a former D3 player who was not on a nationally ranked team, did not play 1st singles, and was not ranked in college tennis, and it spits out 5.0 and they won't move him down. Crazy!
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In Southern Cal, we could never get a current or recent D1 grad as a 4.5!
 
bruintennis said:
In Southern Cal, we could never get a current or recent D1 grad as a 4.5!
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Apparently, he appealed his initial rating and it was granted. Somehow I think coordinators play favorites and let captains they like get these ringers on their teams. We tried to get a former non-ranked D3 player for our 4.5 team and they wouldn't grant an appeal.
 
tennisjon said:
Apparently, he appealed his initial rating and it was granted. Somehow I think coordinators play favorites and let captains they like get these ringers on their teams. We tried to get a former non-ranked D3 player for our 4.5 team and they wouldn't grant an appeal.
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In Eastern or Middle States? MS has granted every appeal I've asked for. They generally want people to be able to play if they want to. I never asked for anything totally unreasonable, though (just like former JC players to be rated at 4.0 and stuff like that).
 
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