taydbear7
Professional
According to the email the draws should be out today.
Southern's 18 Sectionals...
- Thread starter Brilliant
- Start date
According to the email the draws should be out today.
taydbear7
Professional
FuzzyYellowBalls
Legend
But, will they have Zaxby's cater food for the players? That's the real mystery.
Vox Rationis
Professional
Usta accidentally ordered from Zach’s bees instead while trying to save money. So all you get is honey.
taydbear7
Professional
Team Chick-fil-A
schmke
Legend
Yeah, you can now see draws but they are worse than TennisLink in that all you see is a state and level and nothing is clickable to see who the team actually is or any details. It all has to get on TennisLink eventually, why go through the hassle of using something else and doing double work?
This is terrible. They should have just let USTA Georgia run it, because their district tournament was out of this world well run.
having assisted with many tournaments utilizing MatchTennisApp, they are doing this limit face to face interaction. There is supposed to be at some point a way to manage the data between the 2 sites.
FuzzyYellowBalls
Legend
Please, please please, don't get riled up. That's interesting pre-cautions would be taken, would have guessed GA would be similar to AR, TN, MS. TN state weekend was basically no covid ever existed situation, I'm vaccinated so really not a big deal to me, but there was plenty of milling about in groups of 50-100 all within 1 foot of each other all day long everyday. Considering the general notion that TN might have a 60/40 split on whether a vaccine is a good idea or it's a personal choice, that was interesting having people from all over the state hanging out in hallways and narrow paths. Score reporting and assignments were all pencil/paper, face to face. I'm not saying that is bad if vaccinated, but there's not a large participation % in TN for the vaccine.
GA was exactly like this with the congregation of people. But it was expertly ran in regards to sharing of information.
Vox Rationis
Professional
Looks like they updated tennislink but the schedules are only available on the MatchTennisApp. So only the participating teams can see them?
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CrocodileRock
Rookie
8.7 UTR is pretty ridiculous for 4.0 NTRP, but check out a guy on Austin's 4.0 team: UTR is 9.14!
Vox Rationis
Professional
Same thing with that Utah captain that won nationals two years ago. He's got a UTR 9 leading the way again this year.
CosmosMpower
Hall of Fame
That 9.14 needs to be protested. Can you Pm me his name?
ATX Tennis
Rookie
The 9.14 is a 4.0A. I’m surprised he hasn’t DQed yet.
schmke
Legend
This is likely a case of a player's UTR being inflated from tournament play compared to others that only play USTA League. You can see this in that while their singles UTR is 9 their doubles UTR is 7. The majority of their singles matches are tournaments (8 vs 3) vs doubles being the majority doubles (12 vs 3). Since UTR seems to consistently under-rate (or just rate lower) league players, this may just be an example of that.
CosmosMpower
Hall of Fame
9.14 should be a 4.5A at best cause that’s a decent 5.0
CosmosMpower
Hall of Fame
I see your point on how this happened, I’m a utr 7 doubles 4.0 but if you’re playing at a utr 9 level overall you shouldn’t be anywhere near 4.0. That’s ridiculous.
CrocodileRock
Rookie
Maybe, but I doubt it. It's more likely that his league NTRP is understated due to mainly playing doubles and closely managing the scores, so as not to trigger a dq. In tournaments (which don't count in dynamic league dqs), he is free to play to his ability, winning blowout matches against opponents with 8 or higher UTRs. Combine that with the fact that one of his teammates fraudulently self rated 4.0 in 2019*, and it's much more credible that the whole team is in on the scam.
* Texas has a super champ rule, whereby juniors who have played in the super champ division must wait at least six years after their last year at super champ before rating 4.0. One of the players on that team played super champs as recently as 2016 (3 years too early) by playing a fall doubles league, where there is no sectionals, and no real incentive to check each other our for bad ratings. Then when the year end ratings came out, he got a C rating, and is ineligible for a dq according to the USTA, regardless of the blatant violation.
schmke
Legend
Common strategy in Texas, and why some areas no longer count Fall leagues for ratings.
That's what Hunter Emmott did. He self-rated at 5.5 and joined a tanking 5.0+ team captained by the USTA's most cheatiest captain ever, and coincidentally only showed up in matches against 4.5 rated players playing up and got thrashed in every one (while winning open tournaments with the same partner...) to get a 4.0C rating as a 20-something ex-major conference D1 player at Texas A&M. Texas is a world unto itself in terms of lack of integrity.
FuzzyYellowBalls
Legend
That is what fascinates me, what mindset makes that fun? Or better put, is there an incentive, oh nevermind, I won't ever understand it, but I will be constantly fascinated. I know a very large sample size of college players who dabble in USTA and it's not anything they would ever take that seriously nor would they dare seek out easy matches at lower levels. The 1% who do, just boggles my mind. But, Texas is, unfortunately, notorious and I've been around long enough to see it all.
On another note ,since the UTR talk came up, I looked at some of the TN competition I saw at state, significant numbers of the same players (from two teams) were on 4.0 and 4.5 district teams, and played 5.0 lines at tri-level. These players had very good records at all "3" levels over 80% wins. Broken record, but I enjoyed facing that competition, for me a good match is what I am looking for, but the majority of participants that weekend were not pleased.
I mean the crazy thing is Emmott's team lost in the finals and Emmott barely won in a third set tiebreak in the semifinal and final. So it isn't even like he was out of level for the teams that go to nationals.
FuzzyYellowBalls
Legend
Wow, I didn't know that, that's often an argument people use to justify strategies. USTA has a tough job on its hands.
Vox Rationis
Professional
Let’s not act like it’s all the teams though. Just the top handful that get guys like him. Sometimes teams get to the semifinals legitimately just to get waxed by a certain handful of captains* known for really going above and beyond to win. I shake my head so much every time I see a 6-0 6-1 score line in the freaking semifinals. Like if you’re winning that easily throughout nationals was it really even fun? If your first competitive match was in the semifinals or finals, how do you even feel that accomplished?
*Its the same names or sections over and over. I’m pretty sure I can comfortably tell you right now which exact two teams will make the 4.0 18+ national finals and we haven’t even had any sectionals yet.
Moon Shooter
Hall of Fame
Are we talking about someone that played in a club at Texas A&M or on their actual team? If it was someone that played on their team and then played as a 4.0 and lost then I think it is time to call this whole thing a bust.
12thman.com
Men's Tennis - Texas A&M Athletics - 12thMan.com
The official Men's Tennis page for the Texas A&M Aggies
If that is true then I think the job on their hands is to realize this is an embarrassing joke and move on to other priorities beside level based "nationals." This monstrosity is about the only thing they promote.
Every team who makes it to nationals has players who are out of level. But yes, the teams who win it are even more out of level than the other teams.
Vox Rationis
Professional
Yeah my point was only a handful are "former division 1 power conference" out of level. Like Middle States goes and gets all the 4.0A's from like a 200 mile radius to go play on a stacked team. Or the typical strong team has a bunch of borderline 4.5s try their best not to get bumped up every year. Those are the traditional out of level players. At least they're not making a complete mockery of usta.
This was discussed at the time. The SoCal team that beat TX in the finals was just as dirty. There were essentially a 4.5 team where 6 or 7 of the players collectively tanked a whole year (were a combined 3-70 or something at 4.5 the previous year) and then won nationals the following year, so they didn't have anyone of Emmott's pedigree, but they had more quantity of out of level players.
My friend's team from Middle States was third that year (lost to SoCal in the semis). They had 1 S-rated player who should have been 4.5, and everyone else was C or A rated and just top level 4.0 players who legitimately bounce up and down between 4.0 and 4.5 (even their S-rate was allowed to rate 4.0 - his junior ranking was like 50 in the section and nothing nationally and he only played juco and a NJCAA D3 juco where anyone who owned a racket was allowed on the team). They saw the two semis and were like why are these teams even playing this level? It was sad. Of the Middle States starting 8 for the semis, they had that one ringer who was the only guy to win, 4 guys who are currently 4.0 rated, one who was bumped down but bumped back up after 2019, one who was bumped up to 4.5 but doesn't play USTA anymore, and one guy who is currently in prison (long story, don't ask, my friend had no idea what he was doing...). It shows that you can make it pretty far playing fair (there are very few shenanigans in Middle States), but if you run into one of the really cheaty buzzsaw teams, it could be lights out at any moment.
CosmosMpower
Hall of Fame
Geez so USTA 4.0 nationals have 5.5 D1 players that are UTR 12-13+? That's ridiculous
BTW I looked up Hunter Emmott in UTR and TR and no results...did he play under a different name?
The 4.0 year goes back to 2014, so it's probably not in there.
CosmosMpower
Hall of Fame
Ah ok good to know it wasn't recent.
schmke
Legend
Generally yes. But, and I'd have to go look to find an example, I believe some "weaker" sections have sent teams to Nationals before where none of the players were bumped up. Rare, yes.
This is the nature of level based play. The ones that are the best and advance are by definition at the top of the level, and whether it is organic or manufactured, players, particularly at lower levels, improve as they play and compete more and inevitably some number of them having their rating rise to the point they will be bumped up. So they are in essence out of level when they are at Nationals.
schmke
Legend
5.5S in 2012, then tanked three matches on a 5.0+ team in 2013 getting a 4.5C which was able to appeal to 4.0A. Played 2014 on the 4.0 team that has been mentioned, arguably should have been DQ'd after Sectionals but wasn't, was DQ'd after Nationals to 4.5D, and then got a 5.0C at year-end. Played on a 5.0+ team in 2015 with what appear to be legit results getting a 5.0C at year-end, but hasn't played since but just self-rated again as a 5.0S.
I captained a 4.0 national runner up team where only 3 people were bumped up, and of those 3 people, 2 are back down to 4.0 and the other suffered a hand injury and cannot play anymore. Again, it's possible to have success at nationals and not have ridiculously out of level players if you do everything the right way.
CosmosMpower
Hall of Fame
They should ban him for 20 years from USTA.
Fixed
CosmosMpower
Hall of Fame
Or both, not like the kid didn't know exactly what he was doing when he realized he had to basically play blindfolded and with his opposite hand standing on one foot to lose that badly to much less talented players on purpose.
If a player is DQ after Nationals - are his matches from that National reverted to loss(es)?
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