Spain grumbles and complains about US DC's court surface

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I think Davis Cup is really childish. Why don't they just standardize all DC's court surface, thus no more problems.


Spain objects to U.S. choice of Davis Cup surface
Ticker - Tuesday, April 19, 2011


Spain has appealed to the International Tennis Federation over the surface chosen by the United States for their July Davis Cup quarterfinal in Austin, TX.

The surface, called Indoor Hard Premiere, is not on the list of approved surfaces by the ITF, even though a source told TENNIS.com that it was used in five U.S. Davis Cup home ties and two Fed Cup home ties since 2007, including in the U.S.’ defeat of Spain in the 2007 quarterfinals, in Winston-Salem, N.C.

"It's a court that we are not familiar with because it doesn't meet the criteria," Spanish Davis Cup captain Albert Costa said at a press conference in Barcelona. "So the problem I have right now is to explain to the players what kind of court they will encounter, because even if we wanted to train on a similar one we could not install it because it is not approved."

Apparently the surface is sold in Europe under another brand name and may be used at other European ATP tournaments, but the ITF first classifies surfaces by compostion (there are nine such categories) and is said to focus less on brand name. Premiere is an acrylic hard court, and there are dozens of similar ones in the ITF's official 2011 list of approved surfaces, but Premier's name does not turn up as one of those. Interestingly, the Baltimore-based company that produces the surface, Premier Concepts, promotes its product on its web site as the one used in the 2007 Davis Cup final in Portland when United States defeated Russia at home.

The ITF has yet to release a statement on why Indoor Hard Premiere has been approved before but is not in its official list of approved surfaces.

Spain has apparently objected to the brand name, and not the type of surface, but Costa did tell El Pais that when Spain lost to the US in 2007 playing on the surface, they thought it was close too another surface, Greenset (which is used in Europe) but then found out later that it wasn't.

The ITF said that its Davis Cup committee has been asked to consider whether the surface complies with its rules and that the committee will issue its verdict on Thursday.

Premiere is an overlay of a standard acrylic hard court, where the speed can be adjusted. It is used on the ATP tour at the tournament in San Jose, California under its brand name. The portable surface can be installed onto a wood sub-floor system, which would be the case at the Frank Erwin Center at the University of Texas, where the tie will be held.

The United States will attempt to use a fast indoor surface, which Spanish No. 1 Rafael Nadal is weakest on, and is one of American Andy Roddick's favorite conditions.

A source also told TENNIS.com that Spain objected to the USTA selling tickets before the site in Austin was officially approved. Tickets for the July 8-10 tie are already sold out, but as the away nation Spain has the right to sell 10% of the ticket haul. If it does not, the rest will be released back to the USTA.—Matthew Cronin
 
There's already a thread about this and for now it has been established that Albert is the only one complaining at the moment.
"So the problem I have right now is to explain to the players what kind of court they will encounter, because even if we wanted to train on a similar one we could not install it because it is not approved."
 
Spain seems to have a case, but maybe not the best case as it is just an acrylic hardcourt with an overlay. So the style of court is all right, but the overlay is not mentioned as allowable. It seems however to be something that shouldn be allowed, just something not listed for whatever reason.

The reality is the lay up and under-surface - wood - will produce a fast low-bouncing surface, which the US are allowed to do.
 
15_ounce said:
I think Davis Cup is really childish. Why don't they just standardize all DC's court surface, thus no more problems.


Spain objects to U.S. choice of Davis Cup surface
Ticker - Tuesday, April 19, 2011


Spain has appealed to the International Tennis Federation over the surface chosen by the United States for their July Davis Cup quarterfinal in Austin, TX.

The surface, called Indoor Hard Premiere, is not on the list of approved surfaces by the ITF, even though a source told TENNIS.com that it was used in five U.S. Davis Cup home ties and two Fed Cup home ties since 2007, including in the U.S.’ defeat of Spain in the 2007 quarterfinals, in Winston-Salem, N.C.

"It's a court that we are not familiar with because it doesn't meet the criteria," Spanish Davis Cup captain Albert Costa said at a press conference in Barcelona. "So the problem I have right now is to explain to the players what kind of court they will encounter, because even if we wanted to train on a similar one we could not install it because it is not approved."

Apparently the surface is sold in Europe under another brand name and may be used at other European ATP tournaments, but the ITF first classifies surfaces by compostion (there are nine such categories) and is said to focus less on brand name. Premiere is an acrylic hard court, and there are dozens of similar ones in the ITF's official 2011 list of approved surfaces, but Premier's name does not turn up as one of those. Interestingly, the Baltimore-based company that produces the surface, Premier Concepts, promotes its product on its web site as the one used in the 2007 Davis Cup final in Portland when United States defeated Russia at home.

The ITF has yet to release a statement on why Indoor Hard Premiere has been approved before but is not in its official list of approved surfaces.

Spain has apparently objected to the brand name, and not the type of surface, but Costa did tell El Pais that when Spain lost to the US in 2007 playing on the surface, they thought it was close too another surface, Greenset (which is used in Europe) but then found out later that it wasn't.

The ITF said that its Davis Cup committee has been asked to consider whether the surface complies with its rules and that the committee will issue its verdict on Thursday.

Premiere is an overlay of a standard acrylic hard court, where the speed can be adjusted. It is used on the ATP tour at the tournament in San Jose, California under its brand name. The portable surface can be installed onto a wood sub-floor system, which would be the case at the Frank Erwin Center at the University of Texas, where the tie will be held.

The United States will attempt to use a fast indoor surface, which Spanish No. 1 Rafael Nadal is weakest on, and is one of American Andy Roddick's favorite conditions.

A source also told TENNIS.com that Spain objected to the USTA selling tickets before the site in Austin was officially approved. Tickets for the July 8-10 tie are already sold out, but as the away nation Spain has the right to sell 10% of the ticket haul. If it does not, the rest will be released back to the USTA.—Matthew Cronin
Click to expand...

Made me chuckle. Cant fault USA for trying. US best lineup seems to be a combination of Roddick/Fish/Isner/Querrey. Spain has Rafa/ferrer/Verdasco/Robredo/Ferrero.
 
They may be complaining about the surface, but I bet that Nadal being such a humbalito won't be complaining about his racquet.

Frying-Pan.jpg
 
Spain actually makes a good point. If it is not on the approved list, end of story. But the OP suggests to standardize the DC surface? Crazy talk. That's not feasible because it would be impossible to change all the venues obviously.
 
Isn't this the way Davis Cup always goes? The host picks the surface that will give their guys the best advantage over the visitors. If our guys were better on skates, the court would be on the ice at a hockey rink.
 
Nuke said:
Isn't this the way Davis Cup always goes? The host picks the surface that will give their guys the best advantage over the visitors. If our guys were better on skates, the court would be on the ice at a hockey rink.
Click to expand...

Australia complained about the US importing red clay for one of their ties played in the 90's
 
If its not on the list of approved surfaces how is this type of court used at an actual Tournament site and how has it, in the past, been approved for Ties? If they want to complain about the name, well, thats Spains right, but it seems to me its also entirely possible they just don't want to play on a surface that doesn't favor them and are going to try and delay and get out of it. This is sort of backed up by the fact they lost on this surface in 2007...will be interesting to see how this plays out.
 
The Hangover From '10 Still Giving Them the Shakes!

Methinks they doth protest too much! I think the French sting has not gone away yet. Show up, play and let the racquets do all the talking! They obviously are capable of winning no matter what surface so just shut up!
 
stringertom said:
Methinks they doth protest too much! I think the French sting has not gone away yet. Show up, play and let the racquets do all the talking! They obviously are capable of winning no matter what surface so just shut up!
Click to expand...

So why do you think they are talking?

To psyche the americans out?

Let's assume the absurd, that the spaniards complaining leads to a change of surface. You think the americans won't put another type of fast surface in?

The spaniards know they can't change the surface, they are just pointing out the fact that they are not familiar with it as it is only played in one tourney from what I could make out from the story.

Also, I don't think I've heard any talking from the spanish team before or after when the frenchies spanked them 5-0 on a much faster surface that what the americans will put on display. I wonder why.
 
Gorecki said:
cheers dear *******s...
Click to expand...

So why do you think Costa is talking about this?

Spain have played(and lost BADLY) on much faster surfaces.

I'm just saying that it is a odd thing to complain about and I don't see the advantages for Spain. The surface can't and won't be changed and even in the absolutely absurd scenario in which it is, it will not be a slow surface anyway.

Outside of Dasco I don't think any of the spanish team have played at SAP recently, where this surface is used . Lopez too in the past if I remember correctly.
 
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namelessone said:
So why do you think Costa is talking about this?

Spain have played(and lost BADLY) on much faster surfaces.
Click to expand...

not my problem.

point is: prior to make assumptions on the innocence of Humbalito and the hord of clay benders, do your search! what i posted is in the ITF page!!!
 
Gorecki said:
not my problem.

point is: prior to make assumptions on the innocence of Humbalito and the hord of clay benders, do your search! what i posted is in the ITF page!!!
Click to expand...

I didn't know one could be "innocent" or "guilty" when dishing out your OPINION on a subject.
 
lol Pathetic. USA picks a fast indoor court and Spain goes nuts about it. What did you think would happen? There are courts clearly faster than the US Open as Nadal will find out soon. He thinks he can moonball on fastcourts. Think again.
 
15_ounce said:
I think Davis Cup is really childish. Why don't they just standardize all DC's court surface, thus no more problems.
Click to expand...

BS.

That's the whole point of DC. Surviving in a "hostile" country when you play away ties. You play in their conditions provided that they don't try any shennanigans(you always hear food poisoning allegations in DC :) ). Not to mention the usually hostile crowd.
 
Gorecki said:
when you make false claims you are guilty of something right? or it's not like that in romania?
Click to expand...

What false claims?

The claim was that the surface wasn't on the list of approved surfaces by the ITF. Costa said this, I repeated this and so did Costa's pupil from the spanish team, Nadal.

Courier said that they used this surface in the past to defend against Costa's allegations but not with the "we don't need ITF approval"(your info) but with the "we've used this surface before(in 2007)" defense.

So it's not as clear cut as you make it.

In fact the article says that the following:

"The ITF has yet to release a statement on why Indoor Hard Premiere has been approved before but is not in its official list of approved surfaces."

"The ITF said that its Davis Cup committee has been asked to consider whether the surface complies with its rules and that the committee will issue its verdict on Thursday."

If this was clear cut there would be no issue and the ITF wouldn't be debating this come Thursday.

Anway, it's a lot of talking for nothing IMO but for Costa apparently this was important.
 
namelessone said:
What false claims?

The claim was that the surface wasn't on the list of approved surfaces by the ITF. Costa said this, I repeated this and so did Costa's pupil from the spanish team, Nadal.

Courier said that they used this surface in the past to defend against Costa's allegations but not with the "we don't need ITF approval"(your info) but with the "we've used this surface before(in 2007)" defense.

So it's not as clear cut as you make it.

In fact the article says that the following:

"The ITF has yet to release a statement on why Indoor Hard Premiere has been approved before but is not in its official list of approved surfaces."

"The ITF said that its Davis Cup committee has been asked to consider whether the surface complies with its rules and that the committee will issue its verdict on Thursday."

If this was clear cut there would be no issue and the ITF wouldn't be debating this come Thursday.

Anway, it's a lot of talking for nothing IMO but for Costa apparently this was important.
Click to expand...

i dont give two shaits on the ways you try to twist it.

for clearer cut in your little brain please visit:

http://www.itftennis.com/technical/equipment/courts/courtlist.asp
 
Gorecki said:
i dont give two shaits on the ways you try to twist it.

for clearer cut in your little brain please visit:

http://www.itftennis.com/technical/equipment/courts/courtlist.asp
Click to expand...

As usual, no civilized retort from you.

I get it, they are spanish but sheesh.

Oh, and where's Indoor Hard Premiere on that list? :)

And another thing, this is from the tennis.com article, those dirty spaniards:

"Spain has apparently objected to the brand name, and not the type of surface"

In short, it's a sort of tehnicality the way I see it.
 
namelessone said:
As usual, no civilized retort from you.

I get it, they are spanish but sheesh.

Oh, and where's Indoor Hard Premiere on that list? :)

And another thing, this is from the tennis.com article, those dirty spaniards:

"Spain has apparently objected to the brand name, and not the type of surface"

In short, it's a sort of tehnicality the way I see it.
Click to expand...

LET ME RETORT YOU IN A CIVILIZED MANNER THEN:

YOU CANNOT READ JUST LIKE MR COSTA!

read the fracken page once more! maybe your pea wil get it then... hint approved vs classified...

here

ITF Classification does not imply any form of ITF approval or endorsement.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Gorecki said:
LET ME RETORT YOU IN A CIVILIZED MANNER THEN:

YOU CANNOT READ JUST LIKE MR COSTA!

read the fracken page once more! maybe your pea wil get it then... hint approved vs classified...

here
Click to expand...

Apparently neither can the ITF since they are debating this non-issue(in essence) on Thursday. And all they had to do was visit their own webpage. Imagine that.

If this is as clear cut as you make it, the ITF wouldn't have listened to Costa's complaint, which again, is a TECHNICALITY.

The surface WILL NOT be changed IMO, too late for that and even in the absurd case in which it would, it would still be a fast one. It's not like Spain is expecting clay in Texas.

Here's some of what bozo has to say on this whole "issue" and for once I actually agree with him:

http://blogs.tennis.com/tennisworld/2011/04/tj.html

"It seems that Spanish captain Albert Costa has appealed to the ITF, the promoter and ultimate authority in Davis and Fed Cup, noting that the Indoor Hard Premiere surface the U.S. wants to use—and has used in the past for both Davis and Fed Cup ties—is not on the ITF's list of officially approved surfaces. Of course, the ITF approved the surface, tacitly or otherwise, for those past ties. Thus, what we have here is Costa siezing upon a technicality to challenge the choice of surface. The big question is how the ITF will respond, given that, technically speaking, Costa's complaint is valid—the surface is not on the approved list."

"In other words, the court was custom-made, and that appears to be part of Costa's problem. He told the Spanish newspaper El Pais that prior to that 2007 battle in Winston-Salem, the Spanish were led to believe that Premiere was more-or-less the same as a hard court commonly used in Europe, GreenSet (and the basic Premiere court is nearly identical to GreenSet). The Spanish say they learned, upon arriving for that tie, that the similarity between the surfaces was exaggerated.

The argument made by the Spanish also appears to be strengthened by the fact that the "choice of surface" rules specify that the surface for any tie must be used by either a Grand Slam event or at three men's pro tour events. Premiere fails this test, because the only tournament where it's used is San Jose."

Bodo also can't read :)
 
Get the Tape, Carlos: Watch Raonic Serve Over Ferdasco's Head!

namelessone said:
So why do you think Costa is talking about this?

Spain have played(and lost BADLY) on much faster surfaces.

I'm just saying that it is a odd thing to complain about and I don't see the advantages for Spain. The surface can't and won't be changed and even in the absolutely absurd scenario in which it is, it will not be a slow surface anyway.

Outside of Dasco I don't think any of the spanish team have played at SAP recently, where this surface is used . Lopez too in the past if I remember correctly.
Click to expand...
Eddie Munster is VERY familiar with the high bounce off this surface. Milos "midget-ized" him in San Jose. BTW, was Costa on the '07 DC staff? If so, he is also VERY familiar with the surface.

As I said, just SHUT UP & PLAY! If you win, bow to the crowd, dance and hug, throw your captain in the air and shout Viva Espana. If you lose cry about how the dirty Americans tricked you by playing a non-approved surface. In short, keep being Spanish.
 
stringertom said:
Eddie Munster is VERY familiar with the high bounce off this surface. Milos "midget-ized" him in San Jose. BTW, was Costa on the '07 DC staff? If so, he is also VERY familiar with the surface.

As I said, just SHUT UP & PLAY! If you win, bow to the crowd, dance and hug, throw your captain in the air and shout Viva Espana. If you lose cry about how the dirty Americans tricked you by playing a non-approved surface. In short, keep being Spanish.
Click to expand...

LOL at the rampant nationalism :)
 
It seems to me that the issue really is with the Spanish team getting to practise on the identical surface before the tie, which may be problematic if it is fine-tuned like the article suggests, and is also not played on much on the tour.

Much ado about nothing really. Surely Courier will have no problems with revealing the specifics of the surface tuning.
 
single_handed_champion said:
It seems to me that the issue really is with the Spanish team getting to practise on the identical surface before the tie, which may be problematic if it is fine-tuned like the article suggests, and is also not played on much on the tour.
Click to expand...

Finally, a sensible post about this whole non-issue.

I'm sure Roddick is wetting his pants cause the spanish captain complained about the specifics of this surface(and how his own team isn't familiar with it) :)

Almost everyone that criticizes Costa thinks that he is talking about the SPEED of the court which I find hilarious. He is talking about familiarity of it on tour and how they couldn't manage to get hold of a similar surface(regarding brand names in Europe because in composition there are a lot of similar ones that are imported in Europe as well ) because the US surface is customized.

Also, the ITF thought it best to settle this "issue" by debating it on Tuesday and I think they know more about this than the patriottards around TW.
 
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namelessone said:
Finally, a sensible post about this whole non-issue.

I'm sure Roddick is wetting his pants cause the spanish captain complained about the specifics of this surface(and how his own team isn't familiar with it) :)

Almost everyone that criticizes Costa thinks that he is talking about the SPEED of the court which I find hilarious. He is talking about familiarity of it on tour and how they couldn't manage to get hold of a similar surface(regarding brand names in Europe because in composition there are a lot of similar ones that are imported in Europe as well ) because the US surface is customized.

Also, the ITF thought it best to settle this "issue" by debating it on Tuesday and I think they know more about this than the patriottards around TW.
Click to expand...

Besides, as Davis Cup captain, this is no minor detail, especially if it is true that the 2007 team was "led to believe that Premiere was more-or-less the same as a hard court commonly used in Europe, GreenSet (and the basic Premiere court is nearly identical to GreenSet). The Spanish say they learned, upon arriving for that tie, that the similarity between the surfaces was exaggerated."

Sounds like an embarrassing situation for all concerned, and any sensible captain should attend to such things.
 
single_handed_champion said:
Besides, as Davis Cup captain, this is no minor detail, especially if it is true that the 2007 team was "led to believe that Premiere was more-or-less the same as a hard court commonly used in Europe, GreenSet (and the basic Premiere court is nearly identical to GreenSet). The Spanish say they learned, upon arriving for that tie, that the similarity between the surfaces was exaggerated."

Sounds like an embarrassing situation for all concerned, and any sensible captain should attend to such things.
Click to expand...

I hope you know that you are now supporting the "dirty spaniards" in the eyes of many on TW :twisted:
 
namelessone said:
Apparently neither can the ITF since they are debating this non-issue(in essence) on Thursday. And all they had to do was visit their own webpage. Imagine that.

If this is as clear cut as you make it, the ITF wouldn't have listened to Costa's complaint, which again, is a TECHNICALITY.

The surface WILL NOT be changed IMO, too late for that and even in the absurd case in which it would, it would still be a fast one. It's not like Spain is expecting clay in Texas.

Here's some of what bozo has to say on this whole "issue" and for once I actually agree with him:

http://blogs.tennis.com/tennisworld/2011/04/tj.html

"It seems that Spanish captain Albert Costa has appealed to the ITF, the promoter and ultimate authority in Davis and Fed Cup, noting that the Indoor Hard Premiere surface the U.S. wants to use—and has used in the past for both Davis and Fed Cup ties—is not on the ITF's list of officially approved surfaces. Of course, the ITF approved the surface, tacitly or otherwise, for those past ties. Thus, what we have here is Costa siezing upon a technicality to challenge the choice of surface. The big question is how the ITF will respond, given that, technically speaking, Costa's complaint is valid—the surface is not on the approved list."

"In other words, the court was custom-made, and that appears to be part of Costa's problem. He told the Spanish newspaper El Pais that prior to that 2007 battle in Winston-Salem, the Spanish were led to believe that Premiere was more-or-less the same as a hard court commonly used in Europe, GreenSet (and the basic Premiere court is nearly identical to GreenSet). The Spanish say they learned, upon arriving for that tie, that the similarity between the surfaces was exaggerated.

The argument made by the Spanish also appears to be strengthened by the fact that the "choice of surface" rules specify that the surface for any tie must be used by either a Grand Slam event or at three men's pro tour events. Premiere fails this test, because the only tournament where it's used is San Jose."

Bodo also can't read :)
Click to expand...

namelessone said:
LOL at the rampant nationalism :)
Click to expand...

namelessone said:
Finally, a sensible post about this whole non-issue.

I'm sure Roddick is wetting his pants cause the spanish captain complained about the specifics of this surface(and how his own team isn't familiar with it) :)

Almost everyone that criticizes Costa thinks that he is talking about the SPEED of the court which I find hilarious. He is talking about familiarity of it on tour and how they couldn't manage to get hold of a similar surface(regarding brand names in Europe because in composition there are a lot of similar ones that are imported in Europe as well ) because the US surface is customized.

Also, the ITF thought it best to settle this "issue" by debating it on Tuesday and I think they know more about this than the patriottards around TW.
Click to expand...

namelessone said:
I hope you know that you are now supporting the "dirty spaniards" in the eyes of many on TW :twisted:
Click to expand...

If Spain under General Humbalito, invaded Romania one day, namelessone would be the first one to bend over.

...and take it with dignified pleasure...
 
aphex said:
If Spain under General Humbalito, invaded Romania one day, namelessone would be the first one to bend over.

...and take it with dignified pleasure...
Click to expand...

I shouldn't have, but I LOL'd at this!
 
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