Spanish to sue French broadcaster over Nadal drug skit!

Driving a F1 car would come to mind. Winning any of the grand tours is much harder then hitting a baseball also. Down hill mountain biking is another one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqYgAX6D43Q

Driving an F1 car- nah, experience and the car itself have as much to do with winning as the driving skill itself. Do F1 drivers fail to make it around the track one lap 70% of the time? I am pretty confident most people could learn to drive the car around the track in less than a week.


DH MTB - MTB is one of my passions nothing in MTB compares I have ridden pretty much every discipline in the sport, DH, dirt jumping, cross country, even trials. nothing in the sport I can't go out and do right now, I have ridden with Pro MTBers Brian Lopes and Jeff Lenosky about a half dozen times I live close to one of the most famous MTB Parks in the world. What individual skill in this sport do you think is so difficult?

I played organized baseball from 5 years old till I was 18, have you ever even played the sport in your life? Somehow I doubt it, I doubt there is a single person on this entire forum who could get a hit against a major league pitcher, I played for 13 years and know I couldn't do it. I would bet my life 90% would even make contact with the ball, that is how hard it is, not to mention if they threw a wicked slider, most people would drop on the ground because it actually looks like it is going to hit you before it breaks over the plate for a strike.
 
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Thats Ok, I am sure I have a biased viewpoint when it comes to Armstrong.
I know how it feels..When you go thru ordeals and u see someone else going thru that same ordeals then u develop a soft corner for that person..
By the way where are u frm??European country i guess..
 
Driving an F1 car- nah, experience and the car itself have as much to do with winning as the driving skill itself. Do F1 drivers fail to make it around the track one lap 70% of the time? I am pretty confident most people could learn to drive the car around the track in less than a week.


DH MTB - MTB is one of my passions nothing in MTB compares I have ridden pretty much every discipline in the sport, DH, dirt jumping, cross country, even trials. nothing in the sport I can't go out and do right now, I have ridden with Pro MTBers Brian Lopes and Jeff Lenosky about a half dozen times I live close to one of the most famous MTB Parks in the world. What individual skill in this sport do you think is so difficult?

I played organized baseball from 5 years old till I was 18, have you ever even played the sport in your life? Somehow I doubt it, I doubt there is a single person on this entire forum who could get a hit against a major league pitcher, I played for 13 years and know I couldn't do it. I would bet my life 90% would even make contact with the ball, that is how hard it is, not to mention if they threw a wicked slider, most people would drop on the ground because it actually looks like it is going to hit you before it breaks over the plate for a strike.

I cower for cover when a 9 year old girl throws an underhand.:razz:
 
Driving an F1 car- nah, experience and the car itself have as much to do with winning as the driving skill itself. Do F1 drivers fail to make it around the track one lap 70% of the time?


DH MTB - MTB is one of my passions nothing in MTB compares I have ridden pretty much every discipline in the sport, DH, dirt jumping, cross country, even trials. nothing in the sport I can't go out and do right now, I have ridden with Pro MTBers Brian Lopes and Jeff Lenosky about a half dozen times I live close to one of the most famous MTB Parks in the world. What individual skill in this sport do you think is so difficult?

I played organized baseball from 5 years old till I was 18, have you ever even played the sport in your life? Somehow I doubt it, I doubt there is a single person on this entire forum who could get a hit against a major league pitcher, I would bet my life 90% would even make contact with the ball, that is how hard it is, not to mention if they threw a wicked slider, most people would drop on the ground because it actually looks like it is going to hit you before it breaks over the plate for a strike.

Played three years of little league. One year minors, two in majors. Loved going to the batting cage. You're talking about hitting major pitcher. I would have a better chance of making contact with a ball then I would completing a run like Danny Hart's or any other professional mountain biker. Can you complete a run like that at the speed a professional would? You can't say someone wouldn't make contact with a major league pitcher and then say you can complete a run at such and such. Many cyclists could complete the Tour De F rance, just not in 23 days and no where near the speed that professionals could. Considering that 167 riders finished the Tour De France this year and there are over 700 people alone in the Major Leagues that can "hit" by your standars, that makes completing the Tour De France amongst the peloton to be a much harder thing to accomplish.

As for F1, you're delusional if you feel it's mainly the car and practice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGUZJVY-sHo

Enjoy.
 
I know how it feels..When you go thru ordeals and u see someone else going thru that same ordeals then u develop a soft corner for that person..
By the way where are u frm??European country i guess..

It isn't just for Armstrong or even myself, the hardest part of the whole thing was going to chemotherapy treatments and seeing all the sick people and their loved ones with them, woman and children and knowing more than half aren't going to make it, it hurt me mentally more than dealing with the disease physically, I knew I would make it, seeing all those people hurting around me is something I can't forget, because I know a lot of them didn't make it. Even if Armstrong cheated, I just can't see why anyone would think it is a good idea to try to destroy the man and his foundation when it would really end up hurting people that are in need, his foundation raises about 100 million dollars for cancer research, what is more important some Tour De France titles or those sick people, that is why it angers me people are so bitter and would like to see Armstrong fall, it won't hurt just him. Almost all of us will have someone close to us get cancer, or get it ourselves. The man is doing a lot of good when does that out way the bad of possibly cheating riding a bicycle, what is more important life or sport?

I read in a book recently that in most peoples minds it takes 20 good deeds to outweigh the though of one misdeed from someone, I now see this is probably true. I try not to be that way, everyone makes mistakes no one is perfect.
 
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Played three years of little league. One year minors, two in majors. Loved going to the batting cage. You're talking about hitting major pitcher. I would have a better chance of making contact with a ball then I would completing a run like Danny Hart's or any other professional mountain biker. Can you complete a run like that at the speed a professional would? You can't say someone wouldn't make contact with a major league pitcher and then say you can complete a run at such and such. Many cyclists could complete the Tour De F rance, just not in 23 days and no where near the speed that professionals could. Considering that 167 riders finished the Tour De France this year and there are over 700 people alone in the Major Leagues that can "hit" by your standars, that makes completing the Tour De France amongst the peloton to be a much harder thing to accomplish.

As for F1, you're delusional if you feel it's mainly the car and practice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGUZJVY-sHo

Enjoy.

We are talking about one individual skill within the sport itself not the entire sport skills overall, I am not saying baseball is the hardest sport, just that hitting a baseball is probably the hardest individual skill within any sport.

Those 700 people in MLB are only successful at getting a hit 3 out of 10 attempts, and there are thousands of players just trying to make it to the major leagues every year, and the one reason most don't make it is hitting.

To complete that DH run requires more than just one skill, it is a combination of skills together. I think if equal number of people trained as long and hard for MTB as MLB we would have a lot more Sam Hills than Ted Williamses.
 
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We are talking about one individual skill within the sport itself not the entire sport skills overall, I am not saying baseball is the hardest sport, just that hitting a baseball is probably the hardest individual skill within any sport.

Those 700 people in MLB are only successful at getting a hit 3 out of 10 attempts, and there are thousands of players just trying to make it to the major leagues every year, and the one reason most don't make it is hitting.

To complete that DH run requires more than just one skill, it is a combination of skills together.

Even if you break it down to that individual skill, I'd still feel that I have a better chance of hitting a single ball off a major league pitcher over sticking with a pro peloton in cycling or making a single lap in a F1 car 20 seconds off the pace. I am not trying to say that hitting a baseball is easy because it's not, but i don't find it to be the hardest either.
 
Toni Nadal, the uncle and coach of Rafael, reacts to a French TV spoof of his nephew that alludes to alleged doping by saying he is clean and that he’ll take no legal action against the station.

"The French can wait forever (for Rafa to test positive)," he told La Marca. "There is no chance, the chance is zero. If they want to wait they can wait. It’s funny that they mess so much with Rafael and Spanish sport. All elite athletes pass the [doping] control tests, it is impossible to cheat. Rafael had 20 and I think some were a surprise, it is difficult to cheat."

Toni Nadal downplayed the significance of the comedy routine of Canal Plus’ show "The Puppets," saying they were just trying to be funny and that it was unimportant. He also said that Canal Plus had issued an apology to distance themselves from the comedy show and that Rafa had not seen it. The Nadals will not take legal action against the station, even though the Spanish Tennis Federation had said it would for using its logo.

tennis.com, apologies if alread posted

That's reasonable response by Toni. Nadal is going to Paris so they better downplay it or just ignore it rather than blowing it up and make more news.
If anything, this has lessen the chances of him ever test positive for a test.
Not that the French Canal expected it to test positive though, they are just doing their show, give em what they want to hear.
 
I can't wait to read Uncle Toni's response about the French after this? Maybe he will force Nadal to boycott the tournament.

His response was they can try till the end of time and they won't find anything. But the best way to get them back and anger them more is to win their event a 7th time and just thank them for being such good sports. :twisted:
 
No, but the fact that he is a supposed freak of nature in the tennis world combined with his unsportsmanlike conduct against many players at the FO, along with the fact that most of his compatriots in other sports get literally free pardons for abusing PEDs all together make the French hate him.

Examples?.

It is a combination of multiple things. He is not a likable personality, he obviously has no sense of sportsmanship on the court (consistently abuses time rules, injury timeouts, etc.), and is the #1 poster child (maybe 2nd to only Djokovic) for doping investigations in tennis if it were to ever happen.

Speak for yourself...

There's not a "latino" race.

Latin was the language of the Roman empire though. And I guess you could call "latino" someone who was born in the Latium at the time.

Are you from Canada? Sometimes it seems Atlantic Ocean leads not to another continent but to another entire planet.

Latino is an ethnic concept though, isn't it?.

It doesn't matter anyway. Jews are not a race either.
 
And the Spanish institution as in the government. Spanish prosecution are the ones that have all of the Fuentes files, and to this day refuse to cooperate with the WADA regarding those files.

And it was the Spanish police who led the investigation in the first place.

Where does satire end and where does slander begin?

Exactly.

Yes, some Spaniards are in the news, but then Nadal is being dragged into it only because he is Spanish so what more perfect example of ethnic stereotyping do you need???

+1

Palin's act was just an imitation. She really is that stupid.

However if SNL put down Palin as corrupted and repeated this all season they would be in trouble. Exagerating character traits is different than defamation.

It is different. The TV show can of course try to hide behind the humorous tone of the show. But a case could be made against them. Not that it would be a good idea for Rafa to sue them, for different reasons. The Spanish Tennis Federation though have an easier case because of the use of their logo.
 
Even if you break it down to that individual skill, I'd still feel that I have a better chance of hitting a single ball off a major league pitcher over sticking with a pro peloton in cycling or making a single lap in a F1 car 20 seconds off the pace. I am not trying to say that hitting a baseball is easy because it's not, but i don't find it to be the hardest either.

We can agree to disagree.
 
His response was they can try till the end of time and they won't find anything. But the best way to get them back and anger them more is to win their event a 7th time and just thank them for being such good sports. :twisted:

and thank them speaking in French no less. :)
 
@ Lsmkenpo

That's why people are annoyed. First there was Noah making allegations toward ALL Spanish sports players without proof and now there is this. It's not a standalone act.

L'Equipe also wrote an article on FC Barcelona and doping. After the club sued them it it turned out also this was written without any proof. They had to pay for it.

I personally don't have any experience with it, but if the French are just trying to troll the Spaniards the best response is no response.
 
Driving an F1 car- nah, experience and the car itself have as much to do with winning as the driving skill itself. Do F1 drivers fail to make it around the track one lap 70% of the time? I am pretty confident most people could learn to drive the car around the track in less than a week.


DH MTB - MTB is one of my passions nothing in MTB compares I have ridden pretty much every discipline in the sport, DH, dirt jumping, cross country, even trials. nothing in the sport I can't go out and do right now, I have ridden with Pro MTBers Brian Lopes and Jeff Lenosky about a half dozen times I live close to one of the most famous MTB Parks in the world. What individual skill in this sport do you think is so difficult?

I played organized baseball from 5 years old till I was 18, have you ever even played the sport in your life? Somehow I doubt it, I doubt there is a single person on this entire forum who could get a hit against a major league pitcher, I played for 13 years and know I couldn't do it. I would bet my life 90% would even make contact with the ball, that is how hard it is, not to mention if they threw a wicked slider, most people would drop on the ground because it actually looks like it is going to hit you before it breaks over the plate for a strike.

I toured the Louisville Slugger bat factory with my family this summer. They have a video set up where you can bat against a Phillies pitcher(the ball comes from a pitching machine behind a screen showing a vid of the pitcher pitching). All one has to do in that is to swing at the right time(regardless of swinging in the right spot to hit the ball). During the time I was there, no one could even swing at the right time to make contact let alone location.
 
It's a fact alright, but I think it's screwed up. Reason has nothing to do with it. No ball-hitting skill in the world justifies the kind of money made in sports like baseball or football.

The W pun was in regards to the place listed in your avatar. Don't take it seriously.
Isn't it amazing that you can find more people who can do brain surgery than can hit a baseball?
 
I toured the Louisville Slugger bat factory with my family this summer. They have a video set up where you can bat against a Phillies pitcher(the ball comes from a pitching machine behind a screen showing a vid of the pitcher pitching). All one has to do in that is to swing at the right time(regardless of swinging in the right spot to hit the ball). During the time I was there, no one could even swing at the right time to make contact let alone location.

Its tough, most people vastly underestimate how fast that ball is coming and the movement on it, watching on TV, it is by you in the catchers mitt in the blink of an eye.
 
What do you think requires more skill in sports than hitting MLB pitching?

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/2003-03-02-ten-hardest-hitting-baseball_x.htm


Nothing in sports comes close. People who have not played at such a high level really can't fathom how difficult it is to hit a baseball, let alone get on base.


as for the Spanish suing the French Broadcasting company....... LOL. That is like dope dealers suing the Govt for running TV ads saying "crack kills".
 
Toni: French can wait forever for positive test
Ticker - Wednesday, February 8, 2012

Toni Nadal, the uncle and coach of Rafael, reacts to a French TV spoof of his nephew that alludes to alleged doping by saying he is clean and that he’ll take no legal action against the station.

"The French can wait forever (for Rafa to test positive)," he told La Marca. "There is no chance, the chance is zero. If they want to wait they can wait. It’s funny that they mess so much with Rafael and Spanish sport. All elite athletes pass the [doping] control tests, it is impossible to cheat. Rafael had 20 and I think some were a surprise, it is difficult to cheat."

Toni Nadal downplayed the significance of the comedy routine of Canal Plus’ show "The Puppets," saying they were just trying to be funny and that it was unimportant. He also said that Canal Plus had issued an apology to distance themselves from the comedy show and that Rafa had not seen it. The Nadals will not take legal action against the station, even though the Spanish Tennis Federation had said it would for using its logo.—Matt Cronin

http://www.tennis.com/articles/templates/news.aspx?articleid=16308&zoneid=25

Right on Toni.....
 
Ah, and the irrefutable evidence, the rumours amongst coaches.

Actually, it's anything but evidence. It was said at the very start of RG 2009 (ie when Nadal and Djokovic were still in the tournament) by a French national coach. Was he talking about the talk between French coaches only? I have no idea. Take it as you will.

Yeah, what's more likely, Nadal overplayed with pain in his knees(and Nadal has done this before, by his own statements, he pushes himself to the point of breaking, likes to suffer), lost in RG, was forced to withdraw from the grass season cause of damage to his knees

OR

go on and put a show in RG and act like he cared about the loss to Soderling(even though he was just going out so the frenchies wouldn't test him), act like he was in pain in front of the press, forget about the biggest tourney in tennis, putting on a pr show before WB just to amp up the drama and even play badly and act distraught after WB as well, like you would after a real injury. Not to mention the fact that the people that made him do this whole act were the ATP guys who gave him a silent suspension. So Nadal had to do silent suspension + acting. Seems plausible.

Occam's Razor people, use it.

Actualy, you shouldn't. Cause you could also use the razor this way:

Considering his strength, stamina, endurance, his stance against controls and his tendency to defend everyone accused of doping, his aggressivity on court (for a young man who is apparently very gentle and whose own mother says she doesn't recognize him when he's playing), the fact that his name came out in several doping rumours/scandals over the years, the abysmal difference in level he can show from one part of the season to the next, is Nadal doping or isn't he doping?

Right, let's forget Occam's Razor, then... ;)

Why didn't these anti doping crusaders, the french anti-doping agency, make a big fuss in the international press about it? If they really hold the best interest of the sport and feel that they are being ousted out of a GS just to be kept far away from certain players, then why don't they make a big deal out of it and have to rely on anonymous internet posters to do it for them? They are officials and yet they say nothing.To clarify even further, have Nadal/Djokovic played in any venues that had the french anti-doping agency testing for it?

Why should they make a fuss? It's all a question of procedure. In 2009, the AFLD (French antidoping agency) asked the ITF whether they could operate at RG (for your info, they did the same in the 2008 Tour de France, after they got a tip which enabled them to catch several cyclists). At the time, people were wondering whether they also had tips about tennis, and the "drama" that ensued (ie the premature loss of Nadal and Djokovic after the hearsay I mentioned above, the alleged knee trouble of Nadal and his retirement at Wimbledon) only fueled the fire. Again, it's only hearsay, and I'm pretty sure you could make a case to explain all of these things by taking them in isolation, but add them up and people started talking, it's as simple as that.

Now, after 2009, the AFLD wasn't at RG, but I don't know whether they didn't ask to be there or whether they did and the ITF refused.

Ok, so I guess the frenchies word is enough then since they know doping. I'm sure that will hold fairly well in court when they get sued. If Nadal was in Operation Puerto, I would like to know where the hell does he get his stuff from, Eufemiano was busted in 2006 and yet Nadal has been constantly on the rise since then despite his "mentor" not being there to supply the substances. He must go somewhere else to get his fix.And just how the hell does this serbian beat the whole Spanish Doping industry? The spaniards must be off their game. :)

Dr Igor, maybe? ;)

Seriously, the "Serbian" doesn't have to beat the whole "Spanish doping industry". The fact that he's got a very favourable matchup against Nadal is obviously a big help for him. Bottom line, the "Serbian" only has to be on the same level as the "Spanish doping industry" to beat Nadal, he doesn't have to beat it. ;)
 
I am 100% sure Nadal is juiced.

What this guy does on court is not human. The amount of running he does and the physical game for hours and hourse is simply too much for any human to handle.
 
Toni: French can wait forever for positive test
Ticker - Wednesday, February 8, 2012

Toni Nadal, the uncle and coach of Rafael, reacts to a French TV spoof of his nephew that alludes to alleged doping by saying he is clean and that he’ll take no legal action against the station.

"The French can wait forever (for Rafa to test positive)," he told La Marca. "There is no chance, the chance is zero. If they want to wait they can wait. It’s funny that they mess so much with Rafael and Spanish sport. All elite athletes pass the [doping] control tests, it is impossible to cheat. Rafael had 20 and I think some were a surprise, it is difficult to cheat."

Toni Nadal downplayed the significance of the comedy routine of Canal Plus’ show "The Puppets," saying they were just trying to be funny and that it was unimportant. He also said that Canal Plus had issued an apology to distance themselves from the comedy show and that Rafa had not seen it. The Nadals will not take legal action against the station, even though the Spanish Tennis Federation had said it would for using its logo.—Matt Cronin

http://www.tennis.com/articles/templates/news.aspx?articleid=16308&zoneid=25

Right on Toni.....

LOL at TONI NADAL saying "it is difficult to cheat". Nobody finds this quote way too funny? :)
 
Actually, it's anything but evidence. It was said at the very start of RG 2009 (ie when Nadal and Djokovic were still in the tournament) by a French national coach. Was he talking about the talk between French coaches only? I have no idea. Take it as you will.

Name? Oh, I guess he wants to remain anonymous. I hate it when people spread rumours anonymously instead of standing up for what they believe in and stating it publicly. But then there is the annoying burden of proof on your shoulder so I guess anonymity is better.


Considering his strength, stamina, endurance, his stance against controls

This has been repeated by many players on the tour, the whereabouts rule is bothering a lot of people. A couple of weeks ago, I saw Sorana Carstea complain about it on Romanian TV. Are you implying that Carstea is doping? :)

Nadal is hardly alone in his dislike of this rule.


and his tendency to defend everyone accused of doping,

That "everyone"(as far as I know) are Gasquet(whom he has known since childhood and who was busted for coke use, hardly performance enhancing drugs) and more recently Contador. I am not familiar with cycling but they "busted" him with 50 picograms(a picogram is one trillionth of a gram) per mililiter of clenbuterol in his system. Wiki says that this amount is 40 times below the minimum standards required for detection by WADA. Dr. Douwe de Boer, Contador's scientific expert said that 50pg is 180 times less than the amount shown to induce physical effects by the drug. Make of that what you will.

Oh, there was also his defense of phelps, when the US media was all over him for despite the fact that most american teens experience some light drug use in their teens. Joints and bongs aren't exactly rare items in the US.



his aggressivity on court

Connors,McEnroe and Hewitt must've been doped to the gills then. Connors probably had the testosterone level of bullsharks.


the fact that his name came out in several doping rumours/scandals over the years,

I always believe rumours, don't you? What scandal are you talking about? Operacion Puerto has been hanging above Nadal since Fuentes's bust in 2006 and guess what, that is based on rumours alone, there is no official link between the two except for the fact that Fuentes said "tennis players" were among his clients as well. I wonder what the hell Nadal has been using since his main supplier has been busted.


the abysmal difference in level he can show from one part of the season to the next, is Nadal doping or isn't he doping?

So you're saying that a player should have the same level, on all surfaces, at all times of the year? That actually sounds even more suspicious. Sure, they cycle on and off(the guys that use PED) but they do it between tourneys. Their actual performance in the tournaments is based on the skill on that surface.

Nadal has actually been one of the more constant players in this respect, there was no wild jump on any surface. He has owned clay since 05 and has steadily risen on grass and HC, taking his licks along the way. And you'll notice that Nadal basically wins mostly on the surfaces where his strokes are most effective, slow HC, grass, clay. On medium-fast and indoors, he is average when compared to other surfaces. And guess what, medium fast and indoors are in the second part of the season, when Nadal doesn't do so well. I very much doubt that if you put a indoor tourney in March, Nadal wins it. He doesn't have the game to win indoors.

And still, if Nadal cycles off in the second part of the season, how the hell did he make 2 USO SF(2008-2009),2 USO finals(2010-2011,winning one), win Tokio 2010(made finals in 2011 again), make Shanghai finals(in 09'), Paris finals(in 07'), win Montreal(05'), not to mention making two TMC SF(2006-2007, ousted by Fed in both) and one final(2010 - beat by Fed again). And all this without PED in his system. Imagine what he could achieve with it. :)



Why should they make a fuss? It's all a question of procedure. In 2009, the AFLD (French antidoping agency) asked the ITF whether they could operate at RG Now, after 2009, the AFLD wasn't at RG, but I don't know whether they didn't ask to be there or whether they did and the ITF refused.

Because they are supposedly against anti-doping and if they feel that other authorities(that are supposed to withhold the same ideals) are keeping them away from suspicious players(or shielding them in any way) they should bring it to public attention. If the AFLD feel that they are better at discovering doped up players but are being shunned by certain authorities of certain events, they should yell it in public. Tbh, I don't think that's the case and the whole "case", as you say, is based on hearsay.

Still, it would be very interesting to see if Djoko and Rafa entered any events where AFLD was present with testing.


Seriously, the "Serbian" doesn't have to beat the whole "Spanish doping industry". The fact that he's got a very favourable matchup against Nadal is obviously a big help for him. Bottom line, the "Serbian" only has to be on the same level as the "Spanish doping industry" to beat Nadal, he doesn't have to beat it. ;)

If the premise is that all Djokovic had to do to beat up doped up Nadal is get the same fitness from using PED, then I think it's highly unlikely that Djoko's team could search the market for the same or better product than what Rafa is using, considering that, according to theory, Nadal has the entire Spanish Doping industry behind him. And still he has been struggling with Djokovic for over a year now so I guess there are no better, exclusive products, that Rafa can use to defeat Djoker from a stamina POV. :)
 
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Oh dear, a wall of text. :)

Maybe I'll find the time to answer all of these points later, but for the moment:

Name? Oh, I guess he wants to remain anonymous. I hate it when people spread rumours anonymously instead of standing up for what they believe in and stating it publicly. But then there is the annoying burden of proof on your shoulder so I guess anonymity is better.

Can't remember his name, but I remember the French journeyman he was playing at the time, so I guess I could find it. But what would be the point? As I said, it's just hearsay anyway, so that's anything but conclusive.

This has been repeated by many players on the tour, the whereabouts rule is bothering a lot of people.

This is pure BS, I'm afraid. When they don't want to be controled, they just don't say where they are, miss the control, and that's it. The penalty incurred is just as severe as endless time-wasting, ie nil.

I always believe rumours, don't you? What scandal are you talking about? Operacion Puerto has been hanging above Nadal since Fuentes's bust in 2006 and guess what, that is based on rumours alone, there is no official link between the two except for the fact that Fuentes said "tennis players" were among his clients as well.

Actually, Nadal's name came up during this, but it was in a French newspaper (of course), so, you know, more jealousy, etc. When asked about this at Wimbledon, Nadal said he would sue, but he never did. Not saying that this is significant, just stating the facts.

And still, if Nadal cycles off in the second part of the season, how the hell did he make 2 USO SF(2008-2009),2 USO finals(2010-2011,winning one), win Tokio 2010(made finals in 2011 again), make Shanghai finals(in 09'), Paris finals(in 07'), win Montreal(05'), not to mention making two TMC SF(2006-2007, ousted by Fed in both) and one final(2010 - beat by Fed again).

You're the one who said he cycles off during the second part of the season, not I. ;)

Cycles are not 6-month long, btw. And Nadal *is* a very good tennis player, it would be stupid to say otherwise. However, some of his performances are suspect, to say the least (he's not the only one in that respect, mind you, he was just the subject of this thread, and I for one hope that Djokovic's miraculous transformation incites the ITF to really start doing something against doping, the way cycling did, instead of covering it up and inciting players to dope with slower and slower courts--otherwise, we'll never see the end of it).

And all this without PED in his system. Imagine what he could achieve with it. :)

Dunno. Win 10 slams, 1 olympic gold, and 19 masters, maybe? ;)

Still, it would be very interesting to see if Djoko and Rafa entered any events where AFLD was present with testing.

Yep, Roland Garros 2009, where they both performed dismally. Once again, just stating facts.
 
The Spanish tennis federation sue over the use of their "logo". It's not good for their "brand".

Regarding rumors. Rumors spread like an oil spill. In the end nobody knows who initially claimed what but people have formed their opinion already regardless of any facts. As they say, if you repeat a lie often enough people will believe it's true. Rumors are especially believed and spread by less intelligent people. In the end they will try to find any "evidence" to back up their claim.
 
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No, but you can bet that if suddenly Nadal is doing superhuman acts in tennis, and his compatriots are getting free pardons by the Spanish Federations for doping, that there WILL be suspicions. Period.

Djoko's rise was more sudden and he is the guy who beats the superhuman, so why is he not getting the same treatment and suspicion by French media? He should be the subject of even more accusations. Is it because he is from Serbia? Does not have as big biceps as Nadal? or maybe because his compatriot Tipsy hasnt done no ****e to raise suspicion?

This is not good for tennis. I believe tennis fans should protest these types of accusations even as a joke. Instead, they should demand better and more reliable screening and ask for evidence when accusations are made and tell them to STFU when there is none.
 
I am 100% sure Nadal is juiced.

What this guy does on court is not human. The amount of running he does and the physical game for hours and hourse is simply too much for any human to handle.

Me too................
 
Djoko's rise was more sudden and he is the guy who beats the superhuman, so why is he not getting the same treatment and suspicion by French media? He should be the subject of even more accusations. Is it because he is from Serbia? Does not have as big biceps as Nadal? or maybe because his compatriot Tipsy hasnt done no ****e to raise suspicion?

This is not good for tennis. I believe tennis fans should protest these types of accusations even as a joke. Instead, they should demand better and more reliable screening and ask for evidence when accusations are made and tell them to STFU when there is none.

Of course.

That tv show had two options as far as sketches around doping accusations are concerned, go with the safe option of accusing Nadal(endurance,muscles,biceps and all that), masking it behind the veil of general spanish doping scandals(because of puerto and associated rumours) or go with the unsafe option of accusing Djokovic, a guy that is skinny(though ripped), was underdog not a long time ago and who comes from a wartorn country.

Which one did you think they were gonna go with?
 
The show is probably scripted by a bunch of inebriated delayed adolescents who wanted to make some 'Spanish jokes'.

Its not a news program with some half-assed theory or evidence. None exists!
 
shows a life-size likeness of Nadal

ehehee, "likeness" The show calls his name.

I dont understand the French dislike of Nadal. Maybe someone from there can explain it.

Envy to all the Spaniards, hence hatred. How many times did the French won RG over the last 50 years? 1. How many times did the SPanish do it? 14. Spanish tennis is 14 times better than the French.
 
Djoko's rise was more sudden and he is the guy who beats the superhuman, so why is he not getting the same treatment and suspicion by French media? He should be the subject of even more accusations. Is it because he is from Serbia? Does not have as big biceps as Nadal? or maybe because his compatriot Tipsy hasnt done no ****e to raise suspicion?

Two things here:

In this kind of show, the guys are going for maximum exposure, so they're going to tag the people/countries/etc. that are the most well-known or represent what they want to convey in the minds of their viewers. Two examples:

- Each time they want to poke fun at the US military/foreign policy, they use a Stallone doll. Simply because lots of people equate Stallone with Rambo, no use to go looking for another 'face' which will have lesser impact.

- 10 years ago or so, the face of doping in tennis, for them, was Mauresmo (and don't get fooled by the ending of her name, she's not Spanish, btw ;)). Now, it's Nadal, and it has been for quite some time. Djokovic is not as well-know as Nadal, so once again, less impact.

Besides, it was obviously not Nadal alone who was targeted, but Spanish sports in general. So of course, using Djokovic with Spanish sports may have been a bit odd... ;)

Now, about the second thing I was mentioning at the start--rest easy, we are getting there. Djokovic has started being mentioned in the same sentences as Nadal on the subject of doping. It's just that Nadal had a huge lead over him in that respect... ;)
 
A Rambo doll is a character and a critique of politics is fine, whereas ethnic stereotyping isn't.

A Nadal doll is not a character and he's not a political figure and despite what people make of his physique and his stamina he is completely untainted.





Two things here:

In this kind of show, the guys are going for maximum exposure, so they're going to tag the people/countries/etc. that are the most well-known or represent what they want to convey in the minds of their viewers. Two examples:

- Each time they want to poke fun at the US military/foreign policy, they use a Stallone doll. Simply because lots of people equate Stallone with Rambo, no use to go looking for another 'face' which will have lesser impact.

- 10 years ago or so, the face of doping in tennis, for them, was Mauresmo (and don't get fooled by the ending of her name, she's not Spanish, btw ;)). Now, it's Nadal, and it has been for quite some time. Djokovic is not as well-know as Nadal, so once again, less impact.

Besides, it was obviously not Nadal alone who was targeted, but Spanish sports in general. So of course, using Djokovic with Spanish sports may have been a bit odd... ;)

Now, about the second thing I was mentioning at the start--rest easy, we are getting there. Djokovic has started being mentioned in the same sentences as Nadal on the subject of doping. It's just that Nadal had a huge lead over him in that respect... ;)
 
Nadal being outlasted by Novak, Nadal complaining of being tired in matches, about the calendar/ season too long etc etc...........whatever he is taking, he is not taking enough.
 
A Rambo doll is a character and a critique of politics is fine, whereas ethnic stereotyping isn't.

A Nadal doll is not a character and he's not a political figure and despite what people make of his physique and his stamina he is completely untainted.

You misread me. They don't use Rambo, they use Stallone, and he's even called things like Commander Sylvestre (French for Sylvester) when he's in a uniform, of Mr Sylvestre when he is in a suit, to make fun of the financial/corporate side of America. So it's clearly the same.
 
Nadal being outlasted by Novak, Nadal complaining of being tired in matches, about the calendar/ season too long etc etc...........whatever he is taking, he is not taking enough.
Who knows, maybe even that car began to stutter and smoke after a 5.3 miles.
 
A slight misreading, but the fact is that Stallone is an actor and his characters are themselves mostly stereotypes of macho behaviour like Rocky and Rambo so it makes him a fitting figure with which to lampoon american militarism.

But they're lampooning the characters he plays but as its the same one and its is identified with him it's hardly a personal attack even if it looks like one.




You misread me. They don't use Rambo, they use Stallone, and he's even called things like Commander Sylvestre (French for Sylvester) when he's in a uniform, of Mr Sylvestre when he is in a suit, to make fun of the financial/corporate side of America. So it's clearly the same.
 
Driving an F1 car- nah, experience and the car itself have as much to do with winning as the driving skill itself. Do F1 drivers fail to make it around the track one lap 70% of the time? I am pretty confident most people could learn to drive the car around the track in less than a week.


DH MTB - MTB is one of my passions nothing in MTB compares I have ridden pretty much every discipline in the sport, DH, dirt jumping, cross country, even trials. nothing in the sport I can't go out and do right now, I have ridden with Pro MTBers Brian Lopes and Jeff Lenosky about a half dozen times I live close to one of the most famous MTB Parks in the world. What individual skill in this sport do you think is so difficult?

I played organized baseball from 5 years old till I was 18, have you ever even played the sport in your life? Somehow I doubt it, I doubt there is a single person on this entire forum who could get a hit against a major league pitcher, I played for 13 years and know I couldn't do it. I would bet my life 90% would even make contact with the ball, that is how hard it is, not to mention if they threw a wicked slider, most people would drop on the ground because it actually looks like it is going to hit you before it breaks over the plate for a strike.


Lsmkenpo, We agree on this completely. I played college fastpitch softball so have an idea how hard hitting a ball is and hitting major league pitching is off the charts hard.
 
Envy to all the Spaniards, hence hatred. How many times did the French won RG over the last 50 years? 1. How many times did the SPanish do it? 14. Spanish tennis is 14 times better than the French.
To qualify their attitude as "hatred" is incommensurably ridiculous. But you are free to believe what you want. If you like to bury your head in the sand, then do it.

Then, on the "envy" thing... the same show also ridicules Amelie Mauresmo when they talk about doping. Thus we may doubt it is a question of nationality as you suggest. Will you say then that the scenarists of the show are "jealous" of Mauresmo because she won two grand slam titles and they did not?

Come on. Grow up. The "hatred/jealousy" arguments are playground talk.
 
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It's also worthy of note that the French anti-doping agency is much more efficient than WADA. Recently, they were invited to 'operate' at RG. That was in 2009, for those who are interested, ie the year when Nadal and Djokovic had that extremely suspect semi in Hamburg [Madrid] (at the time, rumours amongst the coaches in the RG alleys were that the ITF had asked them to 'calm down' after this match). Interestingly, three things happened during this edition:
- Djokovic was crushed early by Kohlshreiber
- Nadal lost to Söderling (his only loss in RG) and then didn't go to Wimbledon, supposedly because of 'his knees' (for a guy who was still running around like crazy, of course), after an exhibition on grass in which he kept repeating 'I can't play, my knees, I can't play' in which sounded like a PR operation
- After that, the French anti-doping agency was never invited again at RG, and things promptly got back 'in order', with Nadal winning everytime

So yes, rumours abound about Nadal (but don't worry, Djokovic is soon getting there, I saw a French article on the AO final (link below) in which they are openly questioning whether such a physical intensity for 6h is humanly possble without outside help.

And remember that France has the dubious honour of hosting the most doped-up sporting event ever, ie the Tour de France. French people now seem to think that, when something smells fishy in sports, it's generally safe to assume that there *is* something fishy behind it. Cycling showed that extensively (and is still doing it), and blatant cover-ups such as Operation Puerto only fuel the rumours, they sure don't stop them. After all, who were the "top tennis players" (plural) that Fuentes was refering to in 2006? The list is obviously not that long...

http://www.menly.fr/buzz/news/67541-nadal-djokovic-finale-australie/

Thanks for the info. Regarding that Madrid match, what was extremely suspect about that? If I recall, that was the first match where they went at each other in the extremely physical way that has now become their norm. Was it simply the sustained physical intensity that drew suspicion?
 
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Thanks for the info. Regarding that Hamburg match, what was extremely suspect about that? If I recall, that was the first match where they went at each other in the extremely physical way that has now become their norm. Was it simply the sustained physical intensity that drew suspicion?

Yes. At that time, there was a sense of incredulity about this and lots of people on the (ahem, French ;)) tennis boards asked questions as to how two guys could go at it with such intensity for four hours (of course, we now know that they can sustain it for six, and probably much more ;)). It's in this sense that I wrote "suspect", coupled with the hearsay we got a couple of weeks later about what the ITF had supposedly told them. As far as I know, there was nothing suspicious about the match per se, just the sustained intensity.
 
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*******s will eventually see that FrankenCvac is doped to the gills as soon as he starts getting close to Fed's slam count. Right now they are picking on Nadal because he has beaten Fed so many times. When FrankenCvac beats up on Fed more and more often their tune will change,and they will finally see that what FrankenCvac has done in the past year was not the fruits of only hard work.

And Nadal didn't play that AO final by himself. He played against a guy who had played a 5 hour semi and then was able to outlast the guy people are calling out for doping in a 6 hour final on a days less rest. FrankenCvac with his Serbian gifted diplomatic immunity,and very sudden turn around in stamina is one of the most obvious cases of something fishy going on I have ever seen.
 
Actualy, you shouldn't. Cause you could also use the razor this way:

Considering his strength, stamina, endurance, his stance against controls and his tendency to defend everyone accused of doping, his aggressivity on court (for a young man who is apparently very gentle and whose own mother says she doesn't recognize him when he's playing), the fact that his name came out in several doping rumours/scandals over the years, the abysmal difference in level he can show from one part of the season to the next, is Nadal doping or isn't he doping?

Right, let's forget Occam's Razor, then... ;)

No, you couldn't use the razor like that at all. Nothing of that indicates he's doping. Your arguments about this are just pathetic... he defended a couple guys who used recreational drugs, so he must be using PEDs. Sure. Amazing logic.

It's not logical to believe he had tendinitis problems, right?, even though he's had them since he was like 17.

As Namelessone pointed out, his differences in performance throughout the year have, very obviously, to do with the distribution of surfaces.

His aggressivity on court... how do you explain he behaves very gently the moment the match ends?, have PED's in that moment dissapeared from his system?.

His name came in several doping scandals?, really?, in which ones?.

I am 100% sure Nadal is juiced.

What this guy does on court is not human. The amount of running he does and the physical game for hours and hourse is simply too much for any human to handle.

Me too................

Of course you are. It's called bias and denial.
 
No, you couldn't use the razor like that at all. Nothing of that indicates he's doping. Your arguments about this are just pathetic... he defended a couple guys who used recreational drugs, so he must be using PEDs. Sure. Amazing logic.

It's not logical to believe he had tendinitis problems, right?, even though he's had them since he was like 17.

As Namelessone pointed out, his differences in performance throughout the year have, very obviously, to do with the distribution of surfaces.

His aggressivity on court... how do you explain he behaves very gently the moment the match ends?, have PED's in that moment dissapeared from his system?.

His name came in several doping scandals?, really?, in which ones?.





Of course you are. It's called bias and denial.



Actually,it's called *******ism.
 
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