Spin rate of Nadal's forehand from 2015

ultradr

Legend
ESPN showed average spin rate of Nadal's forehand in the Verdasco match at IW.
He started match with about 3000 rpm (1st game), then it went up like ~3200 rpm during 2nd set.
And ESPN also showed the average was (only) ~3000 rpm in entire Mueller match (but it is hard to gauge since it was very windy day).

These seems to be low. Verdasco started the match at ~3200 rpm in 1st game.
Nadal before 2014 used to hit 3300-3400 rpm AFAIK. and clocked at 5000 rpm at peak.

Would this be one of key reasons why Nadal is still struggling to find a form?
Maybe this is why other players attacking Nadal with much more ease?

I think this is consistent with Santoro's comments in January that Nadal is trying add more spin.
 

ultradr

Legend
Or, he has less spin exactly because he is trying to intentionally flatten out...

yes certainly. but i'm guessing other possibility here.
he still wants to generate as much spin but can't.

santoro made this comment just before AO that nadal is seeking more spin:

http://www.vavel.com/en-us/tennis-usa/587505-santoro-rafael-nadal-wants-more-top-spin.html

And Nadal has been pushing his forehand with low confidence these days.
Also Toni mentioned Nadal's forehand is not working as good.
 
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weakera

Talk Tennis Guru
After the Verdasco match, I can confirm definitively and without question that the Golden Bull is back.
 

thomasferrett

Hall of Fame
Why would anyone want Nadal to flatten his forehand out when the thing that is good about it is the spin?

The older Nadal gets, the faster he should run and the heavier the spin he should hit.

Nadal's genius is in keeping it simple. Tennis isn't a game of 'tactics', it's a game of execution.

Don't think different - do better.
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
Meanwhile, back in 2013...

d9f9100f10e9a355cd7dce452dd29140.jpg
 

Jaitock1991

Hall of Fame
Hmm. A rather small amount of data obviously, but it's certainly interesting nonetheless. I actually thought that his forehand these days had gotten too spinny, in the sence that his racquet head speed was more or less the same as before, but that more of it was now used to generate spin and less of it to generate speed, and that this was the reason why his forehand seemed considerably slower(a confidence issue).This suggests otherwise.
 

Zoolander

Hall of Fame
that is the question: is he flattening out intentionally or is he not able to generate the same racket head Speed he used to get?

If he's flattening it out intentionally he's not doing a good job of it, still seems very short in the court when he should be getting more depth.

I suspect the 2nd idea is the go, his racquet head speed has dropped so not only is he not getting the spin but he's not getting the depth either.
 

SpinToWin

Talk Tennis Guru
If he's flattening it out intentionally he's not doing a good job of it, still seems very short in the court when he should be getting more depth.

I suspect the 2nd idea is the go, his racquet head speed has dropped so not only is he not getting the spin but he's not getting the depth either.
I suspect it has to do with his movement and his reaction time. He isn't quite as good in those departments anymore, so his extreme racquet head speed topspin groundstrokes have become very tough to time (see his huge increase in shanks and off center hits ever since he's been having troubles on the tour). This results in him slowing down his swing in order to make more clean contact. Equipment wise, one of the only things that makes sense is to do something similar to Fed, but without the change in head size, namely increase the twistweight of his racquet. This will make it more forgiving to the sides (Rafa's racquets reportedly have a very low twistweight) and allow him to swing faster with better results. The downside is that his swing will be less wippy and that his timing may suffer a bit initially (see Federer with the RF 97 vs 90 on the forehand).
 

Surion

Hall of Fame
This is pretty interesting, since his shots seem to fall shorter into the court (Just my opinion, not sure if it's actually true).
 

Zoolander

Hall of Fame
I suspect it has to do with his movement and his reaction time. He isn't quite as good in those departments anymore, so his extreme racquet head speed topspin groundstrokes have become very tough to time (see his huge increase in shanks and off center hits ever since he's been having troubles on the tour). This results in him slowing down his swing in order to make more clean contact. Equipment wise, one of the only things that makes sense is to do something similar to Fed, but without the change in head size, namely increase the twistweight of his racquet. This will make it more forgiving to the sides (Rafa's racquets reportedly have a very low twistweight) and allow him to swing faster with better results. The downside is that his swing will be less wippy and that his timing may suffer a bit initially (see Federer with the RF 97 vs 90 on the forehand).

True, never thought about the twistweight. Looking at TW uni the twistweight of the APD cortex (and assuming his original) was much lower than the following GT and 2013 versions.

Always wondered why Nads hasnt tried a bit extra weight in the handle to get his racquet gradually more HL...... think he uses around 335g and only 2pts HL. Whenever i have tried something like that it seems much harder to control the racquet head in the swing if your not 100% on it constantly. More HL would make flattening it out easier and less shanking..... but i guess Tio Tony has already thought of that!
 

ultradr

Legend
Meanwhile, back in 2013...

d9f9100f10e9a355cd7dce452dd29140.jpg


small amount of data but it supports my suspicion that Nadal is struggling to generate spins he used to (when it wants).

and thus nadal's forehand is easier for other to attack against....

nadal's decline in movement is a gradual one, I suspect.
more suspicious about 2014 lower back injury. (and mental)
he might have some damage that prevent him from making his most advanced skills, IMHO...
 
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