Split step...."meh"

For the amount of talk the split-step gets, it's not an equal amount of bang for the buck.

I learned only to do it on approach shots. To my surprise I realize I already do it naturally on serve return and baseline shots, without thinking. But, I'd like to do a match or a tournament where I force myself to never split step and still win. I've seen a lot of awkward split stepping in the wild lately, I wonder if it is that beneficial to focus so much on it if footwork is already pretty bad. It looks a little awkward. What benefits this has to learning tennis, I'm not sure, but this is a random thought I had after seeing "split step" mentioned in a few lists of tips for improving tennis, especially at the top of the list.
 

Shroud

Talk Tennis Guru
For the amount of talk the split-step gets, it's not an equal amount of bang for the buck.

I learned only to do it on approach shots. To my surprise I realize I already do it naturally on serve return and baseline shots, without thinking. But, I'd like to do a match or a tournament where I force myself to never split step and still win. I've seen a lot of awkward split stepping in the wild lately, I wonder if it is that beneficial to focus so much on it if footwork is already pretty bad. It looks a little awkward. What benefits this has to learning tennis, I'm not sure, but this is a random thought I had after seeing "split step" mentioned in a few lists of tips for improving tennis, especially at the top of the list.
gregory diamond was a poster here who was anti split step and seemed to win alot. Though he was also a 2handed fh advocate....
 

Shroud

Talk Tennis Guru
gregory diamond was a poster here who was anti split step and seemed to win alot. Though he was also a 2handed fh advocate....
@FuzzyYellowBalls some ugly tennis...you can't unwatch it but here is no splitting 2handed everything.

 

AnyPUG

Hall of Fame
For the amount of talk the split-step gets, it's not an equal amount of bang for the buck.

I learned only to do it on approach shots. To my surprise I realize I already do it naturally on serve return and baseline shots, without thinking. But, I'd like to do a match or a tournament where I force myself to never split step and still win. I've seen a lot of awkward split stepping in the wild lately, I wonder if it is that beneficial to focus so much on it if footwork is already pretty bad. It looks a little awkward. What benefits this has to learning tennis, I'm not sure, but this is a random thought I had after seeing "split step" mentioned in a few lists of tips for improving tennis, especially at the top of the list.

A real test of your skill would be to create a logical sounding thread about winning a match by using an unstrung racket. "Framed shots?, meh" for example.
 
gregory diamond was a poster here who was anti split step and seemed to win alot. Though he was also a 2handed fh advocate....
I wouldn't go so far as saying anti-split step, but for instance there is a new ET video or advert with a 3.5 player learning, and it looks like he is trying to jump on a bug returning serve, it's so forced and looks to be impeding his stroke.
 

Funbun

Professional
I agree with your sentiments; split stepping is really critical at higher levels of play where shots will always be fast, and opponents will actively move you.

When I was at a much much lower level, I learned from here to split step and just forced it for every shot, even when the incoming serves were dinks. In hindsight, there was no reason to force it until I played tougher opponents and truly developed a very solid technical foundation. It makes sense that you only really split step towards approaches; you have less time to the next incoming ball and thus it makes for your footwork to reflect that. Split steps are supposed to be done in context.

And with that context, I think merely split stepping is awful advice on its own. Rather, I wish people would emphasize footwork intensity instead. Intensity brings out footwork intuitively and naturally, and complements what is learned from stationary shots.

You hit your backhand with thumb behind the handle and don't see the value of split-stepping. I guess your credibility here is established.

You remind me of these old coaches who, after watching me do practice rallies, came up and "taught" me to hit a closed stance, finish over the shoulder shot on every ball. What an inane fixation.

Also I'm pretty sure you didn't even read his post properly; he's questioning the merit of advising beginners/lower level players to focus on split stepping when there is otherwise no other footwork repertoire suggested.
 

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
gregory diamond was a poster here who was anti split step and seemed to win alot. Though he was also a 2handed fh advocate....
GD seemed to get by in spite of his lack of split stepping. He was noticeably slow getting to wide balls and drop shots, but he won because he was extremely consistent off the ground on both of his 2-handed wings and made few unforced errors.
 

Dragy

Legend
I wonder if it is that beneficial to focus so much on it if footwork is already pretty bad
If you never played basketball or soccer or something similar to ingrain dynamic and position-oriented footwork, you might need it first. If you move overall decently, SS allows to activate your solid movement skill faster and use it better. Even against dink serves, they may go higher, lower, deeper, shorter, vary left-to-right. Unless your intention is to just send it back neutrally, time is still crucial to get in good position to kill it or take control with strong shot
 

jindra

Hall of Fame
If you never played basketball or soccer or something similar to ingrain dynamic and position-oriented footwork, you might need it first. If you move overall decently, SS allows to activate your solid movement skill faster and use it better. Even against dink serves, they may go higher, lower, deeper, shorter, vary left-to-right. Unless your intention is to just send it back neutrally, time is still crucial to get in good position to kill it or take control with strong shot

Yeah I agree with this. If you have **** footwork, split-stepping won't make you have good footwork. BUT split-checking is the start of having good footwork.
 

AnyPUG

Hall of Fame
If you never played basketball or soccer or something similar to ingrain dynamic and position-oriented footwork, you might need it first. If you move overall decently, SS allows to activate your solid movement skill faster and use it better. Even against dink serves, they may go higher, lower, deeper, shorter, vary left-to-right. Unless your intention is to just send it back neutrally, time is still crucial to get in good position to kill it or take control with strong shot

You need a new pair of troll filtering eye glasses.
 

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
I wouldn't go so far as saying anti-split step, but for instance there is a new ET video or advert with a 3.5 player learning, and it looks like he is trying to jump on a bug returning serve, it's so forced and looks to be impeding his stroke.
People overcomplicate the split step. All you need to think about is landing and loading your weight on the balls of your feet at roughly the moment of contact, and you’ll run circles around your fellow 4.0 buddies.
 

cks

Hall of Fame
Rather, I wish people would emphasize footwork intensity instead. Intensity brings out footwork intuitively and naturally, and complements what is learned from stationary shots.

+1

I'm an older (50+) low level player, and my coach has to remind me to "move my feet" at times. I still struggle with keeping my feet in motion (i.e. making small adjustments, stay off my heels) while adjusting for incoming balls without having to actively think about it.
 

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
@FuzzyYellowBalls
There are alternatives out there on youtube like the swing-step or the fluid thing.
What are the "swing-step" or the "fluid thing"? I just tried a search for the former but did not come up with anything.

BTW, I have posted numerous times on something I referred to as the "geriatric split step". It is a no-hop alternative for older players with bad knees, feet or hips. Also, useful for very overweight players who might have similar issues.
 

Jonesy

Legend
@FuzzyYellowBalls

What are the "swing-step" or the "fluid thing"? I just tried a search for the former but did not come up with anything.

BTW, I have posted numerous times on something I referred to as the "geriatric split step". It is a no-hop alternative for older players with bad knees, feet or hips. Also, useful for very overweight players who might have similar issues.
Sorry, i made that up. I hoped someone like intuitive tennis had already invented some new theories for players that want something different from old school teachings. Apparently no one created a different approach yet. But evolution in tennis is always next door, you never know.
 

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
People overcomplicate the split step. All you need to think about is landing and loading your weight on the balls of your feet at roughly the moment of contact, and you’ll run circles around your fellow 4.0 buddies.
I teach students to initiate the SS on the opponent's forward swing or upward swing (serve) so they are at the top of the hop at contact. With this timing, they are landing very shortly after contact and not waiting too long to pick up the ball's trajectory.

Slight to moderate benefit for some low intermediate players but, as you say, it really starts to pay off at 4.0 and higher
 

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
@Funbun @cks

How do you propose "emphasizing footwork intensity"? Keep harping on the student to move their feet more??? Not sure that works for a lot of ppl.

A lot of tennis footwork is not natural or intuitive for many ppl. Some guided fundamentals are needed. Proper SS timing can go a long way to developing fluid, proper footwork, even for low int players. If these players embrace & practice the SS, along with other fundamentals, they will find that these things become a habit & do not need to be forced.

Many will start to figure out more advanced footwork patterns on their own after mastering the SS. For players who overrun shots -- take too many steps -- after quickly chasing down a (distant) ball, I will also teach mogul move variations. Mastery of this often leads to students developing more efficient & effective footwork, on their own, for other situations.
 

Shroud

Talk Tennis Guru
@Funbun @cks

How do you propose "emphasizing footwork intensity"? Keep harping on the student to move their feet more??? Not sure that works for a lot of ppl.

A lot of tennis footwork is not natural or intuitive for many ppl. Some guided fundamentals are needed. Proper SS timing can go a long way to developing fluid, proper footwork, even for low int players. If these players embrace & practice the SS, along with other fundamentals, they will find that these things become a habit & do not need to be forced.

Many will start to figure out more advanced footwork patterns on their own after mastering the SS. For players who overrun shots -- take too many steps -- after quickly chasing down a (distant) ball, I will also teach mogul move variations. Mastery of this often leads to students developing more efficient & effective footwork, on their own, for other situations.
Yeah man @FuzzyYellowBalls had a whole vid on footwork which was excellent and EVENTUALLY after the stroke it caused, I could hold a ball in my hand....
 
S

Slicehand

Guest
For the amount of talk the split-step gets, it's not an equal amount of bang for the buck.

I learned only to do it on approach shots. To my surprise I realize I already do it naturally on serve return and baseline shots, without thinking. But, I'd like to do a match or a tournament where I force myself to never split step and still win. I've seen a lot of awkward split stepping in the wild lately, I wonder if it is that beneficial to focus so much on it if footwork is already pretty bad. It looks a little awkward. What benefits this has to learning tennis, I'm not sure, but this is a random thought I had after seeing "split step" mentioned in a few lists of tips for improving tennis, especially at the top of the list.
Split step is esential, but if you do it bad, its the same as staying flat on your feet, but spending more energy, you need to time it
 

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
I'm an older (50+) low level player, and my coach has to remind me to "move my feet" at times. I still struggle with keeping my feet in motion (i.e. making small adjustments, stay off my heels) while adjusting for incoming balls without having to actively think about it.
I hoped someone like intuitive tennis had already invented some new theories for players that want something different from old school teachings. Apparently no one created a different approach yet. But evolution in tennis is always next door, you never know.
Other SS alternatives have been developed. One of these is the "Fatso splitstep" developed by Coach Mauro more than a decade ago.

However, my preference is my "no-hop" or "geriatric" SS that I've taught to some of my older students with bad joints. It is actually an alternative that I learned from a high-level badminton coach. For this alt move, you are still watching the forward or upward swing of your opponent to prepare you for action.

However, you don't actually move until you hear their ball contact. Once you hear it, you immediately sink -- lower your body by quickly bending your knees. This primes the muscles in your lower body to spring into action -- without a hop.
 

Funbun

Professional
@Funbun @cks

How do you propose "emphasizing footwork intensity"? Keep harping on the student to move their feet more??? Not sure that works for a lot of ppl.

The OP referenced stating the split step as a one-off advice in pieces such as a list of ways to improve. Obviously, a live coaching scenario is different and I agree with you here.

I think similarly harping on the student to split step is equally ineffective. However, that's what the emphasis seems to be on, as per the OP's address.

"Intensity" doesn't have to be explicit, but rather a suggestion of a mental state (ready to run/react) and a physical stance (sprinter's stance, leaning slightly forward, wide base) that you probably already teach to students.
 
You hit your backhand with thumb behind the handle and don't see the value of split-stepping. I guess your credibility here is established.
I can do it with or without the thumb, no big deal. My backhand gets enough compliments, what works, works. And you need to be careful with reading comprehension. I don't think the split-step hype equals the benefit for rec players. I've seen too many lower level rec players hopping around like bunnies before swinging wildly with little technique. It's been over-emphasized lately. As I said, I just recently realized I split-step without even knowing I do it.
 
I agree with your sentiments; split stepping is really critical at higher levels of play where shots will always be fast, and opponents will actively move you.

When I was at a much much lower level, I learned from here to split step and just forced it for every shot, even when the incoming serves were dinks. In hindsight, there was no reason to force it until I played tougher opponents and truly developed a very solid technical foundation. It makes sense that you only really split step towards approaches; you have less time to the next incoming ball and thus it makes for your footwork to reflect that. Split steps are supposed to be done in context.

And with that context, I think merely split stepping is awful advice on its own. Rather, I wish people would emphasize footwork intensity instead. Intensity brings out footwork intuitively and naturally, and complements what is learned from stationary shots.



You remind me of these old coaches who, after watching me do practice rallies, came up and "taught" me to hit a closed stance, finish over the shoulder shot on every ball. What an inane fixation.

Also I'm pretty sure you didn't even read his post properly; he's questioning the merit of advising beginners/lower level players to focus on split stepping when there is otherwise no other footwork repertoire suggested.
Yes, you communicated my thoughts much more clearly than I did or could, thank you.
 

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
I think similarly harping on the student to split step is equally ineffective.
Don't actually need to harp on it. For many of my students, we did footwork patterns, w/o a ball, as part of their warmup. The SS was an integral part of this warmup. This was often followed with some easy hand feeds -- where I would swing a racket with one hand (for timing) and then immediately feed a ball with the other hand.

After a while, sometimes a few sessions, the SS would start to become a habit -- with minimal or no harping.
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
For the amount of talk the split-step gets, it's not an equal amount of bang for the buck.

I learned only to do it on approach shots. To my surprise I realize I already do it naturally on serve return and baseline shots, without thinking. But, I'd like to do a match or a tournament where I force myself to never split step and still win. I've seen a lot of awkward split stepping in the wild lately, I wonder if it is that beneficial to focus so much on it if footwork is already pretty bad. It looks a little awkward. What benefits this has to learning tennis, I'm not sure, but this is a random thought I had after seeing "split step" mentioned in a few lists of tips for improving tennis, especially at the top of the list.

TTPS' logic: "I'm late with my split step. A late split step is worse than no split step. Therefore, I will stop split stepping."

I agreed with his first 2 statements but obviously not the conclusion [which should be "Therefore, I need to practice my split step timing."].

Just because there is a lot of awkward split stepping does not invalidate it's worth, right? There are a lot of awkward volleys but should they give up volleying? There are a lot of awkward OHs but should they give up OHs?

I feel footwork is foundational [ie the 3Fs] and the split step is part of footwork. How you go about teaching it is another matter.
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
I wouldn't go so far as saying anti-split step, but for instance there is a new ET video or advert with a 3.5 player learning, and it looks like he is trying to jump on a bug returning serve, it's so forced and looks to be impeding his stroke.

That's how people look when they try to learn anything new: awkward. Riding a bike, hitting a baseball, playing a new instrument, learning a new language, etc. Just because it looks awkward now doesn't mean it's going to look awkward forever.
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
GD seemed to get by in spite of his lack of split stepping. He was noticeably slow getting to wide balls and drop shots, but he won because he was extremely consistent off the ground on both of his 2-handed wings and made few unforced errors.

He won in spite of his lack of split stepping, not because of it.
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
@FuzzyYellowBalls

What are the "swing-step" or the "fluid thing"? I just tried a search for the former but did not come up with anything.

BTW, I have posted numerous times on something I referred to as the "geriatric split step". It is a no-hop alternative for older players with bad knees, feet or hips. Also, useful for very overweight players who might have similar issues.

No idea what "swing step" means but I interpreted "fluid thing" to be a stutter step, where you don't fully plant and basically keep moving forward. It's most effective when approaching the net and you're highly confident the opponent is not going to lob so you want your split step to be optimized for forward or perhaps diagonally forward movement. Pure lateral or backwards is difficult.

Sampras is the archetype.
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
I wish that was true!

Well, there are exceptions. :)

I believe I've written this before: of the 3Fs [footwork, fitness, focus <mental toughness>, and spacing <space between you and the ball>], I think your weakest area is footwork. If you were to shift some effort to footwork, I think that could have a very positive impact on your game.
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
Well, there are exceptions. :)

I believe I've written this before: of the 3Fs [footwork, fitness, focus <mental toughness>, and spacing <space between you and the ball>], I think your weakest area is footwork. If you were to shift some effort to footwork, I think that could have a very positive impact on your game.
Yeah, not easy if walking was your only footwork until you were 47.
 

jindra

Hall of Fame
I always felt it’s more of an intuitive thing. Can it really be learned?

Harder when you're an old fart like you ;)

Seriously, one thing that helps me sometimes is to go to a court and do shadow swings with footwork. Really helps me work on the footwork for different placements of a shot.

However, I grew up playing soccer and tennis, so maybe I'm just recalling movement patterns my brain already learned.
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
Harder when you're an old fart like you ;)

Seriously, one thing that helps me sometimes is to go to a court and do shadow swings with footwork. Really helps me work on the footwork for different placements of a shot.

However, I grew up playing soccer and tennis, so maybe I'm just recalling movement patterns my brain already learned.
I don’t know. Isn’t it like trying to learn how to walk or run in a different way?
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
I feel like it should be just this: get to the ball fast and in balance and with optimal spacing. How? Well, just let your body figure it out. Asking one to move their feet in a particular way or order to achieve that doesn’t sound reasonable to me.
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
I always felt it’s more of an intuitive thing. Can it really be learned?

That's too binary and limiting of a question.

Instead, you should ask "How much can I improve my footwork and how will that affect my game?". Instead of believing its innate or intuitive, why not pursue it with the same zeal that you do different stroke types and re-evaluate after a few months? What's the downside?

OTOH, if you believe it's impossible, it will be.
 

Curious

G.O.A.T.
That's too binary and limiting of a question.

Instead, you should ask "How much can I improve my footwork and how will that affect my game?". Instead of believing its innate or intuitive, why not pursue it with the same zeal that you do different stroke types and re-evaluate after a few months? What's the downside?

OTOH, if you believe it's impossible, it will be.

I feel like it should be just this: get to the ball fast and in balance and with optimal spacing. How? Well, just let your body figure it out. Asking one to move their feet in a particular way or order to achieve that doesn’t sound reasonable to me.
Speed and strength can definitely be improved. I was talking more about specific footwork patterns, moving feet in a particular pattern. I have doubts whether that can be learned/changed.
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
I feel like it should be just this: get to the ball fast and in balance and with optimal spacing. How? Well, just let your body figure it out. Asking one to move their feet in a particular way or order to achieve that doesn’t sound reasonable to me.

Your movement to me does not appear fluid and relaxed. Whether that's how your body figured it out is irrelevant: there are more optimal ways of moving.

Let me make an analogy: a baseball diamond is defined by line segments connecting the bases. This is geometry. But when you see someone hit a double, do they follow those lines? No. They run to the right of 1st base so they can corner and head towards 2nd with minimal loss of speed. If they ran in straight lines, they'd have to slow down way more when passing 1st.

Your tennis movement is like the baseball player who runs in straight lines. It's very mechanical vs organic.

This may well be intuitive to you. But if you accept that it's sub-optimal, why not give a more optimal way a chance?

If you just let your body figure out how to serve, are you surprised if the end result is a wonky serve? Do people just intuit how to hit a 130mph pro serve? Or even a 90mph, well-placed, consistent serve? If not, why would you think the body will figure out optimal footwork?

Anyways, when the student is ready, the teacher will appear. You are giving every reason not to do something so I can only assume you're not ready yet.
 

jindra

Hall of Fame
Think of yourself as a dressage horse. Horses already know how to do those movements, they just learn to do them on demand.
 

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
Speed and strength can definitely be improved. I was talking more about specific footwork patterns, moving feet in a particular pattern. I have doubts whether that can be learned/changed.

I wasn't talking at all about speed and strength. I was thinking about footwork patterns.

You're letting your doubts control your actions. How about suspending disbelief and at least trying it with an open mind? Your mind is your biggest impediment at this point.
 
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