S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Don't they also go to the glue factory when they're 8 years old?
Split step...."meh"
- Thread starter FuzzyYellowBalls
- Start date
Don't they also go to the glue factory when they're 8 years old?
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Just don't say "Frau Blucher" around him.
user92626
G.O.A.T.
I know what you're talking about. If anything can be learned, no one would be 3.5 or 3.0 after a few years.
Know your limits. Pick the lowest hanging fruits first that you actually can.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Perhaps it's more like learning a new type of dance. A dance that has a variety of possible steps (footwork patterns). You learn the basic steps but once you become proficient at these patterns, you can adapt & improvise. Tennis, after all, is an unchoreographed dance (dictated by the actions of the ball).
optic yellow
Legend
Is the point of this just to time landing in an optimal position to react to any shot with the moment you are able to react to the shot you see?
I understand you.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Firstly, the timing of a SS is to sync you up to your opponent's serve or shot. This is why it's initiated on the upward swing on the serve or the forward swing of other shots.
If you are close to the top of your hop as they make contact, then you'll land shortly after contact. The timing of the landing does a couple of things for you. It should give you enuff time to pick up the general direction / trajectory of the ball so you have a fair idea of how to react -- which way to move.
The sound of the impact will give you some idea how hard the ball was struck and how much spin was impacted to the ball. It can also tell you the quality of the contact. As you land, you pick up some additional visual info on the ball's direction.
The proper timing of a SS landing should also provide you with an optimal SSC (Stretch-Shortening Cycle) of the muscles of your lower body. An optimal SSC should enhance your movement by making your next steps(s) more explosive. There is a bit of leeway on the SSC window (but not a huge window).
If you initiate the SS too early and land too early (before or at contact), you'll likely not get quite as much benefit from the SSC mechanism. But you should still derive some pre-stretch benefit of the muscles if your knees & hips are still flexed and you are on the balls of your feet when you are ready to take your next step to intercept the ball. This can still be somewhat explosive even tho it might not be optimal.
If your SS timing is significantly late, then you may have a more serious issue. Some players do not initiate the SS until they hear the ball impact. (Some are even later than this). If you are appreciably late, you may feel very rushed and may execute a very shallow, superficial SS. If the SS is not robust (fairly deep), you'll not achieve a quick, explosive movement toward the incoming ball.
The other possibility with a very late SS is that you may still be up in the air when you should already be moving to intercept the ball
I find a lot of players have excellent footwork when asked to run and catch a ball e.g. they naturally do crossovers when running diagonally backwards. But when a racket and hitting is added, the speed and efficiency are lost and you see a lot more side steps and things that look more like walking. Swapping between hitting and catching (catching in a way that mimics a tennis contact point) is a good way to train the footwork patterns for these players.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
@optic yellow
When I initially teach the SS to a student, we are landing on the balls of both feet equally. This is a neutral, balanced or 2-footed SS landing.
However, there are many times when we might already pick up the direction we need to move as we are landing. In this case, we would land 1-footed, the opposite foot of the direction we want to move. This unbalanced SS landing is quite common with advanced players.
Both balanced and unbalanced SS landings are ok -- as long as we are not too early or significantly late.
When I initially teach the SS to a student, we are landing on the balls of both feet equally. This is a neutral, balanced or 2-footed SS landing.
However, there are many times when we might already pick up the direction we need to move as we are landing. In this case, we would land 1-footed, the opposite foot of the direction we want to move. This unbalanced SS landing is quite common with advanced players.
Both balanced and unbalanced SS landings are ok -- as long as we are not too early or significantly late.
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
The luckier ones get “put out to stud.”
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
What do you mean?
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
1. Not everyone is equally aware
2. Not everyone is equally adept
3. Not everyone is equally talented
4. Not everyone is equally motivated
There are many reasons why someone would remain at a plateau after a few years, none of which involve the inability to learn.
My point is that footwork can be learned and improved. I also happen to think it could provide a big boost to @Curious' game although it might not be low-hanging fruit if it's difficult for him. But of the foundational elements [the 3Fs, for example], footwork is where I see the biggest gain, way more than any stroke modification.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
My questions, concerns about implementing footwork patterns by training. @SystemicAnomaly 's example of learning how to dance was interesting but the randomness of tennis movement in match situation is more complex than dancing.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
By "optimal position", I assume you mean relative to one's own body as opposed to a given court position.
I think you've got the concept: I want to be in a position of balance and readiness to move in any direction. There's a lot of idiosyncratic variation, even among the pros, but I can't think of any that don't use some variation of the split step.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
My question was rhetorical [ie it was a joke].
@SystemicAnomaly analogy was spot on. But notice he used the word "unchoreographed". You can get into a rhythm in a CC rally but you also have to be ready for the DTL as well as a DS or a let cord. The split step helps you optimize your readiness.
I'd argue tennis footwork is a lot less complex than dancing [have you ever tried Tango?]. Then again, I'm a terrible dancer so maybe I'm biased. I have quick reactions so I can adapt to the randomness of tennis.
it seems like you are trying to intellectualize why it's not worth it for you to practice footwork. if that's the case, no one's going to convince you otherwise. As Morpheus said to Neo, "I can only show you the door. You have to walk through it."
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Then you don't know me yet. I've already watched 15 footwork videos tonight.
I'm gonna start putting it into practice tomorrow.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Footwork patterns
@S&V-not_dead_yet triggered this thread. I’m a little pessimistic about learning specific footwork patterns. Instead of general tips and guidelines about improving footwork I thought I should get more specific feedback about my footwork issues. I’ll post only short videos of points played and...
tt.tennis-warehouse.com
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Not sure exactly what you are looking for but these might give you a bit of insight:
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
@Yamin
.
Note that Roger and other elite players are not taking their 1st SS, when approaching the net, inside the service boxes. That SS usually happens near the service line, often in NML, a bit before the baseline.
But after that SS, the 1st volley (or half-volley) is then taken inside the service line
.
Note that Roger and other elite players are not taking their 1st SS, when approaching the net, inside the service boxes. That SS usually happens near the service line, often in NML, a bit before the baseline.
But after that SS, the 1st volley (or half-volley) is then taken inside the service line
Shroud
Talk Tennis Guru
Can you take that feely stuff to the court?
Shroud
Talk Tennis Guru
Going to fail miserably at this explanation but there was a documentary about fish in schools about how simple instructions lead to complex movements. If you get the basics you can use them as needed.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
How am I supposed to know my limits if I only try to pick the lowest hanging fruit?
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Not a fail at all. You ever see one of those Mandelbrot diagrams: incredibly complex but typically generated with very simple instructions repeated over and over again.
However, these examples involve large #s. I'm not sure how well that translates into tennis movement.
Shroud
Talk Tennis Guru
Was thinking more about tennis than movement and curious’ comment about dancing and tennis. Tennis is fluid like a school of fish. Dancing is structured. Slow slow quick quick slow. Forever
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Next time someone moves well, I will say "You move like a school of fish" and let them puzzle out whether it was a compliment or insult.
Shroud
Talk Tennis Guru
Rule number one is to keep this forum and its craziness to yourself and not to let it out to the real world. Is it just me, or is Curious just not athletic? Sorry Curious I think thats the main issue. Not sure that can be learned.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
It’s ok. I don’t think I’m athletic but fortunately I’m enthusiastic, adamant, stubborn and very curious. If I had a choice though I’d prefer to be athletic and well, curious!
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Regardless of how athletic you are, your focus should be on how much improved footwork can help your game. it's pointless to dwell on "what ifs".
Shroud
Talk Tennis Guru
My two cents is changing footwork is going to be tough. Real tough. Muscle memory is a *****.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
user92626
G.O.A.T.
Two different tasks and not necessarily related.
Why do you want to know your limits when there's plenty within your grasp that you have not used?
StringSnapper
Hall of Fame
what did i just watch, that was utterly insane
StringSnapper
Hall of Fame
+1.
if i'm losing to someone of similar level that i can beat and have beaten before, its probably a lack of footwork or preparing too late or both
zill
Legend
Youth.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
You wrote both of them in succession. Not only are they not related, they are mutually exclusive.
Your advice was "Know your limits", which is impossible if you only go after the lowest-hanging fruit.
I'm not stating that I want to know my limits; I'm stating that the first part of your advice contradicted the second.
user92626
G.O.A.T.
Again, they do not necessarily have to happen together or are mutually exclusive. You assume too much.
One can just play and know which is a low hanging fruit for him without trying to push his limits. One can simply learn alot from experience.
