Sports Illustrated's Jon Wertheim on Foreign College Tennis Players

CaliDawg

CaliDawg

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In his latest college tennis mailbag, he writes:
• The writer refers to the vexing issue of college tennis and the persistent recruiting of overseas players. You're a college coach, you want to field the best team possible. So long as there’s a loophole that permits you to recruit unlimited overseas players—who are often older and more experienced that American kids; who sometimes even have professional experience—why wouldn’t you do it? I’m trying to keep my job and my choices are some 17-year-old from Florida versus some 22-year-old from Slovenia with ATP points?

On the other hand ... This practice is troubling on a number of levels, and it’s a great failure of the Intercollegiate Tennis Association and the NCAA to whine about it privately but refuse to take a meaningful stand. This practice deprives Americans—the spawn of taxpayers in the case of public schools—a chance at playing college tennis. It is disincentivizing American kids from playing the sport. It is giving athletic directors a good reason to take a hard look at tennis when it's time for budget cuts. Above all, I would argue, it violates the spirit (if not the letter) of college athletics. Here’s the lament from a parent.

We hate quotas. We hate exclusion more. But rosters like Baylor's and Lander's are simply unethical:

The obvious solution: teams are permitted X number of scholarships or roster sports to foreign players. Foreign athletes and foreign students are a great asset to a team—and to a student body and a university community at large. But stocking an entire roster with overseas ringers is indefensible.​

This is a frighteningly xenophobic and racist approach to college tennis. Sure, it'd be great if more American teenagers got tennis scholarships, but there's no reason to cap the number of foreign players. Do you think a top science lab would enact such a rule on the students that it funds? No -- and neither should a tennis coach. The best players should get the scholarships, no matter what.
 
I have 4 foreigners on my D3 team. I think athletic scholarships should be capped for foreigners, but we do not give out athletic scholarships in D3. Academic scholarships and need-based scholarships that are available to the general student body, should be available to foreigners as well. This would allow them to come and play in the US, but maybe at a slightly reduced rate. Many public universities are essentially giving away tax money to people who do not contribute to the tax base. I can see capping the number of foreign scholarships, players on the team, or even requiring an American citizen or two in each starting lineup. Other countries even do this in their professional leagues.
 
tennisjon said:
I have 4 foreigners on my D3 team. I think athletic scholarships should be capped for foreigners, but we do not give out athletic scholarships in D3. Academic scholarships and need-based scholarships that are available to the general student body, should be available to foreigners as well. This would allow them to come and play in the US, but maybe at a slightly reduced rate. Many public universities are essentially giving away tax money to people who do not contribute to the tax base. I can see capping the number of foreign scholarships, players on the team, or even requiring an American citizen or two in each starting lineup. Other countries even do this in their professional leagues.
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I understand the need to field (or court) a competitive team, but it bothers me that young people who are citizens don't get a chance to play. This could be part of the reason it's hard to develop and American player. I don't know the answer but it doesn't seem fair. But then again life isn't fair
 
I'm all for putting a limit on how many foreign players a team could have... top scientist finish college become top scientist ,college tennis players finish college and become what ? how many successful tennis pros make a decent living in tennis after their college life is done...but then again every year passes,I'm starting to favor cutting every sports program from college ...
 
jmc3367 said:
I understand the need to field (or court) a competitive team, but it bothers me that young people who are citizens don't get a chance to play. This could be part of the reason it's hard to develop and American player. I don't know the answer but it doesn't seem fair. But then again life isn't fair
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Trust me when I say that players who did not make the team are players who do not take tennis seriously or at least do not any more. At deeper schools, this obviously isn't the case. I know for myself I played a lot but it took a few years for me to make the team. My team, however, didn't have any foreigners. As for me, I wasn't a starter in HS, but I did at least eventually make the squad in D1.
 
The issue with Baylor has been discussed before. Nobody wants to live in Waco, TX.. And the American players who are good enough to play in a top ten D1 program or at another Big 12 Texas school already have other options.
 
tennisjon said:
Trust me when I say that players who did not make the team are players who do not take tennis seriously or at least do not any more. At deeper schools, this obviously isn't the case. I know for myself I played a lot but it took a few years for me to make the team. My team, however, didn't have any foreigners. As for me, I wasn't a starter in HS, but I did at least eventually make the squad in D1.
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I admit I am a little jaded on this subject. I tried to walk on at a D3 school in 1986. I didn't start even playing tennis until High school. The coach had just began to actively recruit tennis players from other countries so I didn't make it. Had I been a few years earlier I would have made it.
 
jmc3367 said:
I admit I am a little jaded on this subject. I tried to walk on at a D3 school in 1986. I didn't start even playing tennis until High school. The coach had just began to actively recruit tennis players from other countries so I didn't make it. Had I been a few years earlier I would have made it.
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That really sucks. It happens regardless, though, if there are foreigners, just by the coach doing a better job with recruiting. At many D3 schools, it is hard to attract foreigners because the cost of an American education is significantly higher than at home and many schools do not offer the same financial aid packages to non-Americans.
 
CaliDawg said:
In his latest college tennis mailbag, he writes:
• The writer refers to the vexing issue of college tennis and the persistent recruiting of overseas players. You're a college coach, you want to field the best team possible. So long as there’s a loophole that permits you to recruit unlimited overseas players—who are often older and more experienced that American kids; who sometimes even have professional experience—why wouldn’t you do it? I’m trying to keep my job and my choices are some 17-year-old from Florida versus some 22-year-old from Slovenia with ATP points?

On the other hand ... This practice is troubling on a number of levels, and it’s a great failure of the Intercollegiate Tennis Association and the NCAA to whine about it privately but refuse to take a meaningful stand. This practice deprives Americans—the spawn of taxpayers in the case of public schools—a chance at playing college tennis. It is disincentivizing American kids from playing the sport. It is giving athletic directors a good reason to take a hard look at tennis when it's time for budget cuts. Above all, I would argue, it violates the spirit (if not the letter) of college athletics. Here’s the lament from a parent.

We hate quotas. We hate exclusion more. But rosters like Baylor's and Lander's are simply unethical:

The obvious solution: teams are permitted X number of scholarships or roster sports to foreign players. Foreign athletes and foreign students are a great asset to a team—and to a student body and a university community at large. But stocking an entire roster with overseas ringers is indefensible.​

This is a frighteningly xenophobic and racist approach to college tennis. Sure, it'd be great if more American teenagers got tennis scholarships, but there's no reason to cap the number of foreign players. Do you think a top science lab would enact such a rule on the students that it funds? No -- and neither should a tennis coach. The best players should get the scholarships, no matter what.
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I think it is unsettling, but neither xenophobic nor racist.
 
It is a valid issue, and all depends on which side of the fence you sit. I played NAIA college tennis in 1976-1980, and faced many teams that were all foreign players. I probably played as many or more foreign players over my career than US players. My son is a freshman now playing D-2, and the main change I see is fewer men's programs due to Title 9 cuts, but just as many or more foreign players. I understand why coaches want to recruit foreign players if they don't attract US talent to compete at that level, but it is really tough for some solid US kids to find roster spots. I would like to see some type of limits as to the number of foreign players on scholarship. Not sure how you could control numbers at D-3, or for walk-ons, but would like to see more US kids have a chance to play.
 
lstewart said:
It is a valid issue, and all depends on which side of the fence you sit. I played NAIA college tennis in 1976-1980, and faced many teams that were all foreign players. I probably played as many or more foreign players over my career than US players. My son is a freshman now playing D-2, and the main change I see is fewer men's programs due to Title 9 cuts, but just as many or more foreign players. I understand why coaches want to recruit foreign players if they don't attract US talent to compete at that level, but it is really tough for some solid US kids to find roster spots. I would like to see some type of limits as to the number of foreign players on scholarship. Not sure how you could control numbers at D-3, or for walk-ons, but would like to see more US kids have a chance to play.
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Yup. My thoughts exactly. While a prohibition is unseemly, a limitation at D1 and/or D2 level might be appropriate.
 
I believe college tennis is dying a slow, uncomfortable death. And the people in charge (ITA, NCAA) don't really seem too concerned about it.
 
Kirijax said:
I believe college tennis is dying a slow, uncomfortable death. And the people in charge (ITA, NCAA) don't really seem too concerned about it.
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I don't know about this. Top juniors and great international players are looking at college tennis now. I would say more so now than 5-10 years ago.
 
There is now a rule in Division I at least, that players have to enroll within a certain time after they graduate high school. I believe it's like six months or something. The problem is coaches are paid to win. Honestly from watching college tennis for 20 years now, most of the foreign players are better disciplined and more mature as players when they come here.
 
SECFAN said:
There is now a rule in Division I at least, that players have to enroll within a certain time after they graduate high school. I believe it's like six months or something. The problem is coaches are paid to win. Honestly from watching college tennis for 20 years now, most of the foreign players are better disciplined and more mature as players when they come here.
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True, but if many of them are say age 20-21 and play futures for a few years they will be well seasoned compared to 17-18 year old American kid.
 
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There may be valid points to be made regarding foreign players in college tennis but they are unlikely to be made by Wertheim.

He has a standing within tennis journalism which far outstrips his knowledge or powers of insight.
 
On a serious note, I suppose one of the questions the NCAA/ITA would have to ask themselves is what they want college tennis to be for (which is not to say of course that it is for any one thing).

One of the (perhaps unintended) consequences of any significant limitation on foreign players would be a reduction in the likelihood of top American players going to college as well, as the level would obviously drop significantly.
 
MC86 said:
On a serious note, I suppose one of the questions the NCAA/ITA would have to ask themselves is what they want college tennis to be for (which is not to say of course that it is for any one thing).

One of the (perhaps unintended) consequences of any significant limitation on foreign players would be a reduction in the likelihood of top American players going to college as well, as the level would obviously drop significantly.
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Yeah exactly. Opponents of foreign players need to answer, would college tennis really be better if Baylor didn't have a strong team? If a player like Blaz Rola didn't play college tennis? Where are the positives in those scenarios?
 
I don't know how I feel about this. On one hand I feel bad for Americans who don't get the opportunity to play.

But, my intramural soccer team wouldn't have been as good without Lander's French influence, and those kids are a lot more fun than your standard Americans.
 
Clemson_tennis said:
Yeah exactly. Opponents of foreign players need to answer, would college tennis really be better if Baylor didn't have a strong team? If a player like Blaz Rola didn't play college tennis? Where are the positives in those scenarios?
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I'll third this. The level of play in college tennis would be substantially lower if there was a quota for foreign players.
 
CaliDawg said:
I'll third this. The level of play in college tennis would be substantially lower if there was a quota for foreign players.
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Would it really though? Clearly players like Rola would still get the slots. It might actually make college tennis better by spreading out the best foreign talent to more schools.
 
atatu said:
Kind of Ironic, didn't Illinois win an NCAA title (or make the finals) with a largely American roster that year they had Brian Wilson, Rajeev Ram, etc ? I think Craig Tiley was the coach during that time.
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What is even more ironic is that Tiley is South African, but believed very strongly about recruiting American players. He built the Illinois program by developing second-tier American players into All-Americans, before he started getting the elite recruits.

The 2003 Illinois national championship team was composed of entirely US-based players: Amer Delic (naturalized citizen from Bosnia who played high school tennis in Florida), Brian Wilson (California), Rajeev Ram (Indiana), Phil Stolt (New Jersey), Michael Calkins (Oregon), and Chris Martin (Florida)/ Ryler DeHeart (Florida).

In fact, in over a decade at Illinois Tiley only recruited a few foreign players that I can recall -- Oliver Freelove from England, G.D. Jones from New Zealand, and Kevin Anderson from South Africa.
 
The topic really seems to be split between two different discussions. Some are talking about the talent level for teams competing for a NCAA D1 national championship... elite teams with elite players. I'm talking about men's college tennis in general, lower levels. My son's team played Oral Roberts a couple of weeks ago. ORU's roster shows 5 foreign players and 3 Americans. Looking at a couple of the D-2 schools my son's team plays, one of them has 6 foreign players and 1 American. Another has 6 foreign players, although they do have a couple of US players. My point is US men's college tennis is heavily loaded with foreign players all through the hundreds of teams in all divisions, and having gone through trying to find a place for my son to play last year, it can be tough. I understand coaches can load up easier on foreign players than to attract equal talent US kids to some places, so nothing will change unless there is some rule in the future that limits the numbers. I doubt if it will happen, but that's where we are. Hey, my tennis roommate and best buddy in college was from Colombia. Been this way for a long time.
 
Bash and Crash said:
True, but if many of them are say age 20-21 and play futures for a few years they will be well seasoned compared to 17-18 year old American kid.
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Yawn. Valid comment from a few years ago, but not now. Any 21-year-old foreign player who has been playing Futures for a few years does not have four years of eligibility for NCAA tennis. Any American kid can do the same thing, and will also have fewer than four years of eligibility remaining. This is a level playing field. If Americans, for cultural reasons, do not spend two years playing Futures and then go to college, that is by choice.
 
ClarkC said:
Yawn. Valid comment from a few years ago, but not now. Any 21-year-old foreign player who has been playing Futures for a few years does not have four years of eligibility for NCAA tennis. Any American kid can do the same thing, and will also have fewer than four years of eligibility remaining. This is a level playing field. If Americans, for cultural reasons, do not spend two years playing Futures and then go to college, that is by choice.
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Good point.

I read somewhere that European kids generally do not finish HS until they are 19, whereas it is usually 18 in the USA, so they are typically already one year older when they finish HS. It is more common for the Euro guys/girls to play Futures or what I have heard is called Club Tennis for a year. The loss of one year of eligibility applies to anyone who enters college more than a year (I think) after HS graduation. It seems that these days the Euro guys play pro or club for a year to gauge their future of making it in the pros and if they do not think they will make it, they then come to the USA to get a quality education (there is no such thing as college sports, except here) and to keep on playing tennis. They may only have three years of eligibility,
but getting a men's partial or a woman's full scholarship and living abroad for a few years is likely a great life experience.

With around 300 D1 schools with men's tennis and let's say a 12 person average roster that is about 3,600 tennis players. I have no idea how many men's teams are in D2 and D3, but it may be another couple of hundred teams. That is a whole lot of tennis players to fill rosters and finding enough good ones is very hard to do, especially if you only recruit within the USA. As in almost all D1 college sports a dozen or so teams always seem to get the best HS athletes and for the rest to have any chance of winning they have to get foreign players.
 
ClarkC said:
Yawn. Valid comment from a few years ago, but not now. Any 21-year-old foreign player who has been playing Futures for a few years does not have four years of eligibility for NCAA tennis. Any American kid can do the same thing, and will also have fewer than four years of eligibility remaining. This is a level playing field. If Americans, for cultural reasons, do not spend two years playing Futures and then go to college, that is by choice.
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Great point.

DaveKB said:
Good point.

I read somewhere that European kids generally do not finish HS until they are 19, whereas it is usually 18 in the USA, so they are typically already one year older when they finish HS. It is more common for the Euro guys/girls to play Futures or what I have heard is called Club Tennis for a year. The loss of one year of eligibility applies to anyone who enters college more than a year (I think) after HS graduation. It seems that these days the Euro guys play pro or club for a year to gauge their future of making it in the pros and if they do not think they will make it, they then come to the USA to get a quality education (there is no such thing as college sports, except here) and to keep on playing tennis. They may only have three years of eligibility,
but getting a men's partial or a woman's full scholarship and living abroad for a few years is likely a great life experience.

With around 300 D1 schools with men's tennis and let's say a 12 person average roster that is about 3,600 tennis players. I have no idea how many men's teams are in D2 and D3, but it may be another couple of hundred teams. That is a whole lot of tennis players to fill rosters and finding enough good ones is very hard to do, especially if you only recruit within the USA. As in almost all D1 college sports a dozen or so teams always seem to get the best HS athletes and for the rest to have any chance of winning they have to get foreign players.
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More great points many of which I've made myself over the years on this topic. I know for a fact there are more roster spots available (at least for boys) then players available or willing to fill them. As far as I'm concerned every parent of a HS player I've encountered that made the argument against international players has one or two things in common. Either or both, their kid wants to go to a major BCS type school that typically only has elite players on the roster, and their child is not an elite player. Many mid-major D1, DII, NAIA and NJCAA scholarship opportunities are out there with coaches that would love to give them to American kids first. Players with an open mind to multiple schools and tennis programs have options.
 
ClarkC said:
Yawn. Valid comment from a few years ago, but not now. Any 21-year-old foreign player who has been playing Futures for a few years does not have four years of eligibility for NCAA tennis. Any American kid can do the same thing, and will also have fewer than four years of eligibility remaining. This is a level playing field. If Americans, for cultural reasons, do not spend two years playing Futures and then go to college, that is by choice.
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Good point.

I read somewhere that European kids generally do not finish HS until they are 19, whereas it is usually 18 in the USA, so they are typically already one year older when they finish HS. It is more common for the Euro guys/girls to play Futures or what I have heard is called Club Tennis for a year. The loss of one year of eligibility applies to anyone who enters college more than a year (I think) after HS graduation. It seems that these days the Euro guys play pro or club fro a year to gauge their future of making it in the pros and if they do not think they will make it, they then come to the USA to get a quality education (there is no such thing as college sports, except here) and to keep on playing tennis. They may only have three years of eligibility,
but getting a men's partial or a woman's full scholarship and living abroad for a few years is likely a great life experience.

With around 300 D1 schools with men's tennis and let's say a 12 person average roster that is about 3,600 tennis players. I have no idea how many men's teams are in D2 and D3, but it may be another couple of hundred teams. That is a whole lot of tennis players to fill rosters and finding enough good ones is very hard to do, especially if you only recruit within the USA. As in almost all D1 college sports a dozen or so teams always seem to get the best HS athletes and for the rest to have any chance of winning they have to get foreign players.
 
Very much agreed. I encounter so many people who want to play D1 or have their kids play D1. For men, there are a max of 4 scholarships per team and many schools don't have the max. It can be a prestige issue for Americans. For many foreigners its more about getting to come to America. Its the experience of playing college tennis in the US and possibly getting the opportunity to stay in the US afterwards. This is why you may see schools in the middle of nowhere have players from abroad. Its much easier to attract non-Americans to go to rural America. You will see a lot of good international players in D2. A scholarship is a scholarship. They have less name recognition elitism than Americans.
The one argument against some of the mid-majors is the quality education of some of the schools. US Tennis players tend to be stronger students and you can only sacrifice so much of a level of education in pursuit of a D1 label and a free ride.
I wound up cutting about 5 players this year on my D3 team. I have 4 international students. If those guys weren't here, I probably would have kept at most 2 of those 5 guys. Essentially, I expanded my roster beyond what I would prefer to keep. Since I am not giving out scholarships, to me, its were the talent drops off in relation to court availability.
 
Its a global world. You either earn something or you don't. If a kid is worth a scholarship, he will get it and if he's not worth it then he won't. This issue is a microcosm of society as a whole.

You can't be a champion if your solution to winning a championship is to just find a way to change the rules to your benefit.
 
DaveKB said:
Good point.

I read somewhere that European kids generally do not finish HS until they are 19, whereas it is usually 18 in the USA, so they are typically already one year older when they finish HS.
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They typically finish at 17 in Sweden. It is hard to generalize about something like this across all of Europe.
 
floridatennisdude said:
Its a global world. You either earn something or you don't. If a kid is worth a scholarship, he will get it and if he's not worth it then he won't. This issue is a microcosm of society as a whole.

You can't be a champion if your solution to winning a championship is to just find a way to change the rules to your benefit.
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Great point. I agree that we should end all athletic scholarships and have athletes EARN their way into college through scholarly achievements. End the practice of lowering standards and providing free assistance of tutors to athletes. Good point!
 
floridatennisdude said:
Its a global world. You either earn something or you don't. If a kid is worth a scholarship, he will get it and if he's not worth it then he won't. This issue is a microcosm of society as a whole.

You can't be a champion if your solution to winning a championship is to just find a way to change the rules to your benefit.
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Yep. This isn't football or baseball where it's 100% American kids that play college or basketball where it's 90% American kids. This is a global sport
 
Couple points of clarification on Internationals and school choices.
1. International HS graduation ages vary from country to country and based on the school tract the student chooses. 17-19 yrs. old is the range.
2. NCAA DI and DII have 4.5 scholarships. NAIA has 5. NJCAA has 9, 2 full and 6 halfs (15% of 9 roster max international cap), when fully funded.
3. Many DI coaches have told me their international students are better students than the Americans. Exceptions aside.
4. Quality of a school is measured by some agencies, but each student gets out of their college education what they make of it on their own. Subjectiveness to school quality may vary.
 
My son plays for a top 20 DII team and the team is about 1/2 foreign. That said my son was an 18 year old beginning freshman and one of the foreign guys is a 21 year old beginning freshman. Of the countries represented on the team - only the South African graduated high school at 18. Everyone else was 19 or older. There is a Senior from Slovakia on the team who is 25 years old who red shirted for 1 year.

The problem is we are not comparing apples to apples. There should be a maximum age that your four years of eligibility begins period. That way if the American kids want to take a year off before starting college it is no big deal but foreign kids would also have to start their eligibility by the same age -- with no exemptions for either group for any reasons.
 
floridatennisdude said:
Its a global world. You either earn something or you don't. If a kid is worth a scholarship, he will get it and if he's not worth it then he won't. This issue is a microcosm of society as a whole.

You can't be a champion if your solution to winning a championship is to just find a way to change the rules to your benefit.
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Almost all of the euro football leagues have quotas.
 
watergirl said:
My son plays for a top 20 DII team and the team is about 1/2 foreign. That said my son was an 18 year old beginning freshman and one of the foreign guys is a 21 year old beginning freshman. Of the countries represented on the team - only the South African graduated high school at 18. Everyone else was 19 or older. There is a Senior from Slovakia on the team who is 25 years old who red shirted for 1 year.

The problem is we are not comparing apples to apples. There should be a maximum age that your four years of eligibility begins period. That way if the American kids want to take a year off before starting college it is no big deal but foreign kids would also have to start their eligibility by the same age -- with no exemptions for either group for any reasons.
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Yeah the #1 girl for Lander is 24.
 
Startzel said:
Almost all of the euro football leagues have quotas.
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Here are the details on that:
"The current UEFA rules state that the 25 man squad submitted by each club playing in the UEFA Champions League must have at least 8 locally trained players named in it."​

-Source: inbrief.co.uk

However, despite efforts to the contrary, this doesn't affect teams' starting lineups.

In 2008, [FIFA] attempted to mandate a quota that would have stopped teams from fielding more than five expatriate players in a starting 11. European Union (EU) authorities rightly rejected the so-called “6+5” rule as discriminatory, effectively scuppering the plan. Since then, FIFA has backed away from quota systems based explicitly on nationality.​
Source: The Economist
 
andfor said:
I know for a fact there are more roster spots available (at least for boys) then players available or willing to fill them.
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I am not sure how you could believe this statement. There are 1761 boys on the 18 and under USTA national standings list. There are many more on high school teams and in the lower state USTA divisions. Just look at the thriving club teams in college. Do you really think you could not field a roster from them? You can make many valid arguments in a discussion about foreigners in college tennis but enough boys for available slots is not one of them.
 
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ClarkC said:
They typically finish at 17 in Sweden. It is hard to generalize about something like this across all of Europe.
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I lived in Sweden for 2 years while my son was in high school. They typically finish at 19. One of the high schools student councils in our area had negotiated a deal with a local pub for discounted beer after school. The drinking age is 18.


Gymnasieskola
Upper secondary school
Ages 16–19

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Sweden
 
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justinmadison said:
I am not sure how you could believe this statement. There are 1761 boys on the 18 and under USTA national standings list. There are many more on high school teams and in the lower state USTA divisions. Just look at the thriving club teams in college. Do you really think you could not field a roster from them? You can make many valid arguments in a discussion about foreigners in college tennis but enough boys for available slots is not one of them.
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There's about 985 men's college tennis teams across the divisions and around 10,000 varisty players in the system. There are many more than that playing H.S. tennis. The reason club tennis succeeds supports my assessment that many tennis players in H.S. want to go to college at BCS types schools. My point is that are are numerous programs mostly on the mens side that have less than 6 players every year. It's not that there are not enough players for the system, it's that not enough Americans H.S. tennis players want to play at the smaller schools. Again, I'm not just talking about the 50 or so DI teams that are discussed here every day.
 
CaliDawg said:
Here are the details on that:
"The current UEFA rules state that the 25 man squad submitted by each club playing in the UEFA Champions League must have at least 8 locally trained players named in it."​

-Source: inbrief.co.uk

However, despite efforts to the contrary, this doesn't affect teams' starting lineups.

In 2008, [FIFA] attempted to mandate a quota that would have stopped teams from fielding more than five expatriate players in a starting 11. European Union (EU) authorities rightly rejected the so-called “6+5” rule as discriminatory, effectively scuppering the plan. Since then, FIFA has backed away from quota systems based explicitly on nationality.​
Source: The Economist
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Each league also has varying rules.

For example in Italy's Serie A they are only allowed to make two non-European union signings a year. Up until 2011 they were only allowed to sign one non-ue player.

In England it's exceptionally hard to get a work permit as a non-EU member unless you are an exceptional talent that plays for the national team.
 
In my opinion there are way too many foreigners in college tennis. It is has become increasingly harder for Americans to go to top schools because it is so easy for coaches to recruit internationally. What especially annoys me is teams with all foreigners. I mean really??? You can't find 1 good American. College tennis has become *******ed with too many internationals. Why does the US have to provide the opportunities? They all want, and feel like they deserve a scholarship simply because they know there are so many internationals. Their countries don't provide the opportunities so they take ours. Who cares if the level goes down. This is America, not Brazil or Germany, or wherever. Let them provide college sports. College sports is one of the reasons why the US is such a great place. The opportunities are endless here.

From my experience the majority of the foreigners take their scholarship, and go back home after 4 years. College tennis is the only college sport like this and everybody seems to think its okay. If foreigners want to pay their way, then fine, but oh know they wouldn't do that. Why do you think there aren't that may in D3. Because they don't give out athletic scholarship. I don't mind foreigners playing college tennis, but there needs to be limits. From my experience the best teams have a healthy mix of foreigners and internationals.

I played in the ITA, and if it wasn't for the fact that I knew I was playing in the US, you could have fooled me I was in another country. Everywhere I go, I hear Spanish, or Portuguese, or German. It was ridiculous. Lastly from my experience, they cheat, and play mind games way more than Americans. They'll do anything to win...

I know this is a long rant, but I believe we should do a better job of protecting our opportunities for our citizens, and encourage other countries to do a better job.
 
Benji1990 said:
In my opinion there are way too many foreigners in college tennis. It is has become increasingly harder for Americans to go to top schools because it is so easy for coaches to recruit internationally. What especially annoys me is teams with all foreigners. I mean really??? You can't find 1 good American. College tennis has become *******ed with too many internationals. Why does the US have to provide the opportunities? They all want, and feel like they deserve a scholarship simply because they know there are so many internationals. Their countries don't provide the opportunities so they take ours. Who cares if the level goes down. This is America, not Brazil or Germany, or wherever. Let them provide college sports. College sports is one of the reasons why the US is such a great place. The opportunities are endless here.

From my experience the majority of the foreigners take their scholarship, and go back home after 4 years. College tennis is the only college sport like this and everybody seems to think its okay. If foreigners want to pay their way, then fine, but oh know they wouldn't do that. Why do you think there aren't that may in D3. Because they don't give out athletic scholarship. I don't mind foreigners playing college tennis, but there needs to be limits. From my experience the best teams have a healthy mix of foreigners and internationals.

I played in the ITA, and if it wasn't for the fact that I knew I was playing in the US, you could have fooled me I was in another country. Everywhere I go, I hear Spanish, or Portuguese, or German. It was ridiculous. Lastly from my experience, they cheat, and play mind games way more than Americans. They'll do anything to win...

I know this is a long rant, but I believe we should do a better job of protecting our opportunities for our citizens, and encourage other countries to do a better job.
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And I bet they have bad breath too.
 
MC86 said:
On a serious note, I suppose one of the questions the NCAA/ITA would have to ask themselves is what they want college tennis to be for (which is not to say of course that it is for any one thing).

One of the (perhaps unintended) consequences of any significant limitation on foreign players would be a reduction in the likelihood of top American players going to college as well, as the level would obviously drop significantly.
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This is correct. Many talented tennis kids (4 & 5 star kids who were top players in 12s), dropped out of tennis & are focusing on Lacrosse (& Soccer & Basketball) once they entered 8th & 9th grade.
 
hound 109 said:
This is correct. Many talented tennis kids (4 & 5 star kids who were top players in 12s), dropped out of tennis & are focusing on Lacrosse (& Soccer & Basketball) once they entered 8th & 9th grade.
Click to expand...

Good players dropping out of a sport and choosing another has been going on for years. This is far from any new kind of phenomenon let alone quantifiable. Many of the best players in the 10's and 12's get passed up in the 14s, 16s & 18s. That's why a lot of them drop out. They learn to win big in the 12's and fail to be able to change what was once a winning game plan (superior pushing or being the biggest kid) to actually learning to construct points, develop a weapon, correct ingrained technical flaws and adjust to other players improvements.
 
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