Stakhovsky: I am in the Negative
- Thread starter OddJack
- Start date
Timbo's hopeless slice
Hall of Fame
It isn't about the top 20, it's about the top 300 being able to stay in the game long enough to have a fair chance of making the top 20. At the moment, unless players have external financial support, it is near impossible to make a living outside the top 100. The average age of the top 20 is actually increasing, young players need maturity to compete withthese guys. If they can't afford to stay on the tour they won't ever reach the top level. Players like Nadal are the exception, most of teh top 20 have been on the tour 4 - 5 years before reaching these heights.
Just a better distribution of the available pool is all that is needed, take a little off the top and make playing a challenger more rewarding.
otherwise the future of the tour is very much in doubt.
oh, and forget about the comparisons to team sports, golf is a much better choice.
Just a better distribution of the available pool is all that is needed, take a little off the top and make playing a challenger more rewarding.
otherwise the future of the tour is very much in doubt.
oh, and forget about the comparisons to team sports, golf is a much better choice.
vernonbc
Legend
No, you don't need better distribution of the available pool. You need a bigger pool. Take a little out of the association/businessman/owner's cut of the revenue and distribute that. Look at the US Open, giving the player's a 10% cut of the revenues while the USTA pays its executives multi-million dollar salaries. The top players who win the big prizes have earned and deserve every dollar that they're paid.
sonicare
Hall of Fame
where r you guys getting 2.3 million dollars?
The wikipedia page says 1.02 million dollars!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergiy_Stakhovsky
And frankly, some of you have room temperature financial IQ. Disappointed in this thread.
The wikipedia page says 1.02 million dollars!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergiy_Stakhovsky
And frankly, some of you have room temperature financial IQ. Disappointed in this thread.
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1970CRBase
Guest
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RoddickAce
Hall of Fame
I'm sure he doesn't need to work 8am to 8pm everyday. And 8am to 8pm isnt even crazy hours. Many jobs require employees to work more hours, including weekends and the salary/wage is lower.
If he likes tennis, what else does he want. A financially rewarding job, doing what he likes...
Wikipedia's a joke.
He makes 130k a year before taxes, but has benefits that other normal workers do not. He is making way more than an average middle class citizen in the United States, especially at his age.
The question is do you have a job? 130k a year is more than 90% of combined household incomes in the United States according to the last Census last time I checked. He makes that on an individual basis; yes, he has plenty of expenses, but he also gets plenty of other benefits that other normal workers do not.
Outside the top 100, yes, you're going to be struggling heavily to stay in the ATP. Inside the top 100 though, you should be perfectly fine. Well above middle class. Most middle class citizens are making anywhere from 50k-80k. Around the 90-100k point, you're talking about upper middle class. Past that, you're talking about a very few 10% of the individuals in the United States. Yes, he has alot of expenses, but so do most graduates today coming out of college. The majority of college students that are making big bucks usually hold a graduate degree, so the majority of these people are anywhere from 50k-200k+ in debt (doctors, lawyers, MBAs, etc. etc.), not to mention bills, kids, etc. etc.
130k a year with no debt to begin with (I'm assuming he had some help getting to go pro, so it's very unlikely he has as much debt as your normal college graduate does now adays) is ALOT of money. Even if you account for his expenses, he's still sitting on a huge chunk of cash. That's WAY better than an average middle class citizen, he's upper middle class easily based on his income, and probably has more cash sitting at the end of the day than a vast majority of occupations in the United States (with exception to those in the health field like doctors). His income easily surpasses most white collar jobs starting out, particularly occupations like lawyers or business who usually go out into the workfield with a truckload of debt now adays.
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jackson vile
G.O.A.T.
The issue you are forgetting is that a college graduate can work that job into retirement and beyond. While a pro only has so much time that they can make a living at being a pro player.
You would want to average the total income after all expenses up to or beyond retirement so that you could actually see who is getting what.
You would want to average the total income after all expenses up to or beyond retirement so that you could actually see who is getting what.
West Coast Ace
G.O.A.T.
And you're forgetting that during his career SS will meet many wealthy people - be nice and network effectively and you end up with a cushy job post-tennis.
Crisstti
Legend
I think they mean in prize money.
Agree with you there. Like it has been pointed out, the top players in tennis make much less than the top players in other sports... and they're the ones who make most of the money for the tour, so I don't really see why their earnings should be reduced. Especially not when the tournaments themselves (especially the slams) can afford to pay the players more.
Crisstti
Legend
Precisely.
He can work after retirement if he wants/needs to. In a tennis academy (though he seems to think that's below him) or even as a TV commentator in his country.
1
1970CRBase
Guest
In his longer interview :
Stakhovsky makes it sound like he made some large sacrifice, some great dedication of his life for some greater good, and is owed something, rather than what tennis gave him. It was just a game for entertainment that he happens to get paid for playing. Does the same apply to somebody playing WOW or Quake or Bingo or whatever? Hey, they gave up studies and friends and family for their sport too! Like I said, why does he a 32 year old man think he should never need to work again? If he saved something from tennis but thinks it is beneath him to play with "amateurs" for 100 bucks an hour, can't he go back to university and get a degree? Or go to school and learn a trade and get a job. What's stopping him?
btw, I am almost now thinking that less money for lesser ranked players and lower rounds may be better in the long run, so that players who have no chance of challenging for titles and moving up the ranks in any case should face reality, face the limits of their talents and retire much sooner and get another job, change their profession when they are much younger, rather than keep hanging around until their thirties, dead wood not getting anywhere but essentially an obstacle for younger upcoming players impeding their progress, and then start whining that they only have a few hundred thousand for their retirement in their 30's that they have to live off for the rest of their lives. Of course, for most young professionals who have made it in the real world, 30's are just the start of their career.
Stakhovsky makes it sound like he made some large sacrifice, some great dedication of his life for some greater good, and is owed something, rather than what tennis gave him. It was just a game for entertainment that he happens to get paid for playing. Does the same apply to somebody playing WOW or Quake or Bingo or whatever? Hey, they gave up studies and friends and family for their sport too! Like I said, why does he a 32 year old man think he should never need to work again? If he saved something from tennis but thinks it is beneath him to play with "amateurs" for 100 bucks an hour, can't he go back to university and get a degree? Or go to school and learn a trade and get a job. What's stopping him?
btw, I am almost now thinking that less money for lesser ranked players and lower rounds may be better in the long run, so that players who have no chance of challenging for titles and moving up the ranks in any case should face reality, face the limits of their talents and retire much sooner and get another job, change their profession when they are much younger, rather than keep hanging around until their thirties, dead wood not getting anywhere but essentially an obstacle for younger upcoming players impeding their progress, and then start whining that they only have a few hundred thousand for their retirement in their 30's that they have to live off for the rest of their lives. Of course, for most young professionals who have made it in the real world, 30's are just the start of their career.
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droliver
Professional
I disagree completely. That interview was really fascinating for looking at tennis as a job. He was pointing out that the #'s are kind of scary for relying on your ATP career to provide you with a living and savings for the next 40-50 years and of the considerations for post professional life considering most players don't even really had GED level educations. I didn't get any kind of feeling of entitlement, he was just laying out the facts. It would be nice for the ATP to work on great purse shares of early round matches to ensure more players can survive financially on tour.
Except he's already earned more than 2 million in his career already, which is a large chunk of cash, not to mention he still has quite a ways to go before his career is over. How he is complaining is beyond me; the only reason he should be in the negative is that he is not being smart about his money at all. I've met various top pros in the top 50-100 range, and although they aren't exactly swimming in money, I have never felt that they were anywhere close to being in debt/in the negative.
He has the advantage of making a crap ton of money for about 10 years, while also being able to rely on his skills as a tennis instructor (and he WILL be in demand) and get paid anywhere from 50-100k EASILY a year on top of whatever he earned as a pro. Not to mention he could take various different career paths and such. I have no respect for a professional athlete complaining about money unless they are truly in a situation where they really do need the money. This is a case of Stakhovsky not spending his money well; he makes far more than enough money, and I seriously doubt that he doesn't get enough benefits to offset some of his expenses. The pros that are truly struggling are barely making 40-60k a year at best. This guy is complaining even though he makes 3x as much money.
Various professional athletes when their games were young played the game because they loved it, and really didn't care how much money they made. Professional NFL athletes before used to hold down a day job while also playing football, and various tennis pros back in the day also held day jobs while playing (only the very elite made enough to sustain themselves). I see no reason why Stakhovsky to complain, especially when looking at his earnings per year and his earnings over his career.
Just think about it, if I was say a teacher, but I had an oppertunity for 10 years to make anywhere from 100k-300k a year while having to foot my own bills for travel expenses, etc. etc., while still being able to come back and maintain my old job of around 50k a year, you seriously think I wouldn't take it?
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DRII
G.O.A.T.
I definitely get the feeling that this guy is most likely living a semi high roller, play boy lifestyle and that has something to do with his alleged financial situation.
Although I see nothing wrong with an increasing 'downward' distribution of funds towards the lower ranked, early round players.
Although I see nothing wrong with an increasing 'downward' distribution of funds towards the lower ranked, early round players.
He must be loaded, cuz a "crap ton", is way more than a sh*t load.
So my wife is a school teacher - 12 years experience. Master's degree - School teachers aren't known for raking in the big bucks. Her entire package is just under $110,000 including state retirement and benefit contributions from her district. Her take-home salary is $54000. My point is that pros making $130,000 are in fact making relatively little if they have to sponsor their own benefits. Not paupers, but last I checked folks weren't lining up to become public school teachers for the money. Also, there is almost no training as expensive as that of becoming a professional tennis player. Academy fees/tuition, coaching, court time, gear, travel - There's probably more than a little debt there...Even though NAMRANGER puts dudes like me in the same league as Mitt Romney, I can tell you that there's no way in h-e-double hockey stick I could afford to send my son to an academy for a month, let alone in an ongoing, sustained way. Anyway, I'm off to bed - gotta' work tomorrow - unlike some people (read: NAMRANGER).
JK man -
So my wife is a school teacher - 12 years experience. Master's degree - School teachers aren't known for raking in the big bucks. Her entire package is just under $110,000 including state retirement and benefit contributions from her district. Her take-home salary is $54000. My point is that pros making $130,000 are in fact making relatively little if they have to sponsor their own benefits. Not paupers, but last I checked folks weren't lining up to become public school teachers for the money. Also, there is almost no training as expensive as that of becoming a professional tennis player. Academy fees/tuition, coaching, court time, gear, travel - There's probably more than a little debt there...Even though NAMRANGER puts dudes like me in the same league as Mitt Romney, I can tell you that there's no way in h-e-double hockey stick I could afford to send my son to an academy for a month, let alone in an ongoing, sustained way. Anyway, I'm off to bed - gotta' work tomorrow - unlike some people (read: NAMRANGER).
JK man -
No; the training/tutions/etc. do not come from loans. They come from the parents of the child. So usually the kid starts out as a pro with 0 debt.
BTW, nice strawman argument. Everyone here knows teachers are underpaid. Try utilizing a real graduate degree job that actually pays well such as upper level businessmen, CPAs, lawyers at a decent law firm, doctors, dentists, etc. etc.
And last time I checked becoming a medical doctor/lawyer/etc. any high paying profession tends to cost alot of money. As in, well over 200k in loans with interest on said loans.
Well you are wrong on that account, I can tell you from my own personal experience, and I didn't make it far on the pro circuit, but just playing the USTA national junior circuit cost me thousands, and I wasn't on the national team, traveling to every corner of the globe, but the travel, coaching, hotels, etc. didn't come from my parents, but my coaches and my club who essentially covered the expenses for most of my tournaments, and then I would have to pay it back, and it was anything but cheap.
Usually most of the pros that make it their have gotten their with help from parents/outside organization/etc. when they were juniors. That's as far as I know anyways from the former pros I've talked to.
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